Are Plastic Containers Safe For Our Food? Experts Say It's Hard To Know (theguardian.com) 87
Many of us have an overflowing kitchen cupboard of plastic containers to store our leftovers. But as awareness grows over the health and environmental pitfalls of plastic, some consumers may be wondering: Is it time to ditch that stash of old deli containers? From a report: Only 9% of all the plastic waste ever created has been recycled. From its contributions to global heating and pollution, to the chemicals and microplastics that migrate into our bodies, the food chain and the environment, the true cost of this cheap material is becoming more apparent. There are thousands of compounds found in plastic products across the food chain, and relatively little is known about most of them. But what we do know of some chemicals contained in plastic is concerning. Phthalates, for example, which are used to make plastic more flexible and are found in food packaging and plastic wrap, have been found by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in measurable levels across the US population (including in the body of Guardian journalist Emily Holden). They have been linked to reproductive dysfunction in animal studies and some researchers have suggested [PDF] links to decreased fertility, neurodevelopmental issues and asthma in humans.
BPA, another chemical widely added to food plastics and can linings, has been subject to increasing regulations after studies linked the chemical to neonatal and infant brain and reproductive harm. But BPS and BPF, two common replacements used in products marketed as "BPA-free," may have similar effects to their predecessor: studies out of both the University of Texas and Washington State University found that even at a dose of one part per trillion, BPS could disrupt cell functioning. A 2019 study from New York University linked childhood obesity with BPS and BPF. There are many other chemicals added to plastic during production, and researchers concede that many gaps remain in our understanding of how they affect health and development. But research that is adding to concerns about the "miracle material" is growing.
BPA, another chemical widely added to food plastics and can linings, has been subject to increasing regulations after studies linked the chemical to neonatal and infant brain and reproductive harm. But BPS and BPF, two common replacements used in products marketed as "BPA-free," may have similar effects to their predecessor: studies out of both the University of Texas and Washington State University found that even at a dose of one part per trillion, BPS could disrupt cell functioning. A 2019 study from New York University linked childhood obesity with BPS and BPF. There are many other chemicals added to plastic during production, and researchers concede that many gaps remain in our understanding of how they affect health and development. But research that is adding to concerns about the "miracle material" is growing.
No. The answer to both questions is "No." (Score:4, Interesting)
No, plastic containers are not "safe," they are merely regarded as safe due to lack of clear information
But no, it isn't time to throw out those old deli containers; outgassing of plastic into your food starts out high and diminishes over time. It is the new deli containers that you should worry about, not the old ones.
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I think a better question is whether the plastic containers are safer than alternatives. I mean, those big and bulky glass containers that weigh ten times as much and you're constantly terrified of dropping one; are they actually better at keeping the food, stacking in the freezer and taking back out to thaw etc.
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I think a better question is whether the plastic containers are safer than alternatives. I mean, those big and bulky glass containers that weigh ten times as much and you're constantly terrified of dropping one; are they actually better at keeping the food, stacking in the freezer and taking back out to thaw etc.
Are you actually going to get a straight answer from the BPx Pimps raking in billions selling cheap shitty storage?
Easy answer is no. Honest answer is Fuck No.
Broken glass and maybe a cut on your foot is a hell of a lot easier to fix than cancer.
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Sure, but what about all of the raw ingredients that were transported in plastic bags?
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They're not so heavy, instead of loading one HUGE one, you portion it out into smaller ones. They stack just fine.
My current ones do have plastic lids, but I fill them to where they don't touch the lids....AND, I don't ever reread things with plastic lids on.
I've been doing this a long time and it really isn't difficult.
Of course you do BUY food often in contact with plastic, like meat for instance.
But yo
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Haha. Exactly. Why people worry about stuff like that and ignore basic health is amusing. Hey guys: you AREN'T going to die of the Coronavirus, but you might die choking on a Cheetoh.
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Not every slashdotter has the distinguished diets of men like BeerFartMoron and 110010001000.
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No, plastic containers are not "safe," they are merely regarded as safe due to lack of clear information
But no, it isn't time to throw out those old deli containers; outgassing of plastic into your food starts out high and diminishes over time. It is the new deli containers that you should worry about, not the old ones.
Here, allow me to try and eliminate the contradictions brought on by your own damn statements.
Throw out all the plastic containers (old and new), and just stick with glass.
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No, plastic containers are not "safe," they are merely regarded as safe due to lack of clear information
But no, it isn't time to throw out those old deli containers; outgassing of plastic into your food starts out high and diminishes over time. It is the new deli containers that you should worry about, not the old ones.
Here, allow me to try and eliminate the contradictions brought on by your own damn statements.
Throw out all the plastic containers (old and new), and just stick with glass.
The safety implications are not well understood, but the variable outgassing over time is well studied.
Does it kill you, it takes a long time for anybody to ask that in a serious way. But what is the physical process by which it breaks down? What does it turn into next, and where does it go? They ask that right at the start, before they ever decide to use it in a product. Some of it turns into stuff that goes into your food, especially when the plastic is fresh, but most of that has outgassed within 2 years
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...outgassing of plastic into your food starts out high and diminishes over time. ....
...the variable outgassing over time is well studied...Some of it turns into stuff that goes into your food, especially when the plastic is fresh, but most of that has outgassed within 2 years....years-old plastic yogurt containers for reuse, those should have very very low levels of outgassing.
So much talk of "outgassing" dangers... folks do realize that as a GAS most or all of the worrying compounds would go to the air, not the food. Not to say none would go into food, but it's not a 1:1 ratio outgas to food, and the rate of outgassing is very very low anyway. Also, the amount of gas will also relate to temperature and a container in a refrigerator or freezer will have little to no outgassing... maybe just don't microwave your food in a plastic container if you're worried?
Furthermore, for post-p
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Dear Dumb Ass, as was stated, the outgassing going into the food is the part that is well-studied. My goodness, kids these days.
please mod parent up! (Score:2)
Sorry that I can't ;-)
Other factors linked to childhood obesity (Score:2)
I have heard that eating more and getting less exercise is also linked to childhood obesity, according to a study conducted by Dr. Rubye Gene Buck and associates.
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I have heard that eating more and getting less exercise is also linked to childhood obesity
Using less plastic can be done in addition to other factors, rather than as an alternative.
I try to watch what I eat, and I exercise most days, but sometimes life gets in the way and I am too busy.
But using less plastic is easy. Just buy glass, and toss the plastic. Done.
Pro-tip: Some brands of spaghetti sauce come in containers that are compatible with standard mason jar lids. So for liquids and sauces, you can get your glass containers for free.
I don't like plastic in a kitchen (Score:3, Informative)
Plastic becomes eternally greasy after the first use, discolors and holds odor forever. I don't consider it something pleasant to have in my kitchen and around food.
Bite the bullet and buy some nice glass storage containers and you'll help the environment and your sanity at the same time.
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I agree with you on glass containers, much better overall, but:
> Plastic becomes eternally greasy after the first use, discolors and holds odor forever. I don't consider it something pleasant to have in my kitchen and around food.
That's easily combated by washing the plastic containers by hand in a sink, and adding a capful of bleach to the dishwater when filling the sink. All the plastic comes out squeaky clean to the touch and no odor. The staining can sometimes be permanent though.
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Bleach is an oxidizer and can degrade some plastics.
It is possible that your technique means even more gunk leaking into your food.
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If by "my technique" you mean standard practice in commerical kitchens the world over for food storage and prep containers (as that's where it was taught to me), then yes.
Bon appetit when dining out!
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Bon appetit when dining out!
I rarely eat out.
I am on a sodium-restricted diet to control my blood pressure and most restaurant food is drenched in ten times my daily quota for salt.
Avoiding plastic by-products is an additional reason to eat at home.
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You don't need bleach, just a proper quantity of washing liquid.
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I agree with you... However my wife seems to break everything made of glass. That said. Most glass containers will have plastic tops. Granted not as bad as the whole container, but still gets gross.
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Most glass containers will have plastic tops.
Don't overfill, and the lid doesn't touch the food.
Replace the plastic lid with a glass plate before microwaving.
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Plastic becomes eternally greasy after the first use,
Not sure what you're doing wrong, but I use dishwasher detergent with grease-cutting soap and a good rinse aid and they come out perfectly clean.
Don't blame plastic for your inability to clean.
That said, I generally don't reheat in plastic because it doesn't taste as good. But for refrigeration and especially freezing, plastic is way more convenient.
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I use "Nancy's" yogurt containers, they're a hippie brand with higher quality plastic, they last a long time. And they're popular for reuse. They clean pretty easy. I tried a cheap brand yogurt tub for some leftovers, and it was still greasy with the same amount of cleaning. If I had some greasy food, I'd choose Nancy's over a commercial plastic container for sure. But for professional use, they have to buy something.
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Bite the bullet and buy some nice glass storage containers and you'll help the environment and your sanity at the same time.
I agree that plastic does not taste good at all, and I don't use it in the kitchen either.
But I am not going to start cooking with bullets or glass. That crap will kill you.
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There's excellent glass cookware like Corning Visions. It's also much easier to clean than metal cookware.
Tastes like sand and makes my gums bleed.
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You're not supposed to eat your cookware.
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That was the joke THREE posts ago.
You got wooshed hard.
Depends on the plastic (Score:2)
Plastic becomes eternally greasy after the first use, discolors and holds odor forever.
The thing is, all of that really depends on the plastic.
I use a lot of different resealable containers. Some of them, I have used for years.
Some of them will stain, if holding things like spaghetti sauce. But some not, and pretty much none of them hold odors or oil if simply washed carefully (I hand-wash everything).
Now that said some plastic cups I do think lend a distinct taste to water and I don't like using them - b
Plastics are clearly safe (Score:3, Insightful)
While use of plastic has some marginal effect, so much food for so long has been in contact with plastics we would know by now, as a species, if plastic was truly harmful to us. Consider bottled water alone, which millions of the most healthy members of society drink quite often as part of exercising.
It may have some marginal effect but way less than for example what you choose to eat.
Re:Plastics are clearly safe (Score:4, Informative)
There's nowhere in the world to use as a control for any experiment. Lifespans are increasing due to better sanitation and healthcare, but there's no way to measure how much more or less likely cancers or quality-of-life-harming chronic disorders are being caused by plastics.
People don't live forever and plastic is everywhere. We only know as much as that it's not an immediate danger.
Re: Plastics are clearly safe (Score:2)
Evidence like increasing in endocrine disorders and fertility problems? Itâ(TM)s here!
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While use of plastic has some marginal effect, so much food for so long has been in contact with plastics we would know by now, as a species, if plastic was truly harmful to us. Consider bottled water alone, which millions of the most healthy members of society drink quite often as part of exercising.
It may have some marginal effect but way less than for example what you choose to eat.
Cancer now affects 1 in 3 humans, proving we don't know shit as a species. Greed only reinforces the delusion that certain solutions are "safe".
In other words, you've made some tall statements here. Have any solid proof to back it up, as we all sit here and get sicker and weaker as a species?
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Infant mortality rates can actually increase due to better healthcare, for example, when premature births with underlying issues survive into infancy, and then succumb to the underlying issues.
The biggest issue I have is that there is a lot of conjecture and not enough evidence about plastic harm to health. No one ever has to provide evidence - just theories.
I will not believe that there is anything inherently bad with plastic until there is actual evidence.
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The biggest issue I have is that there is a lot of conjecture and not enough evidence about plastic harm to health. No one ever has to provide evidence - just theories.
No, the biggest issue is the proven fact that Greed lies, and ignorant people think that facts don't ever get suppressed in favor of Greed.
I will not believe that there is anything inherently bad with plastic until there is actual evidence.
Wow. I wonder how many millions of cigarette smokers died waiting for "actual evidence". I mean hell, your 1940s family doctor sponsored them, so they must be safe, right?
Talk about proving my point.
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I will not believe that there is anything inherently bad with plastic until there is actual evidence.
Wow. I wonder how many millions of cigarette smokers died waiting for "actual evidence". I mean hell, your 1940s family doctor sponsored them, so they must be safe, right?
Talk about proving my point.
We have been using plastic for decades. If there were serious issues with plastic, we should have the evidence by now. In any case, in Carl Sagan's words, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you are claiming that plastic is harming people now, you should prove it. With actual data (and not just anecdotes or "theories"). In fact, you should also have to demonstrate that we would be better off without it. This extreme risk aversion masquerading as principle is ridiculous.
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The actual theoretically possible lifespan of a human hasn't changed much over the centuries, given that it's genetically determined, and continues to remain around 115-125 years. What has improved over the centuries is the average life expectancy, which has gone from 47+/- to 74+/- years, depending on where you live. The "toxicity" of the planet may be increasing, but medical advances have swamped any such toxicity effects. And even if scientists found a way to make you genetically "immortal" it wouldn't m
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Pure coincidence that your odds of cancer go up as you age, and we all now live much longer than a hundred years ago, right?
And yet with all our technology, you still cannot convince Greed N. Corruption to simply be honest when it comes to selling dangerous products.
From cigarettes to talcum-infused baby powder, we've certainly watched Greed prioritize profits over human health many times throughout history. And that trend will certainly continue.
Sadly, human longevity seems to be backpedaling a bit due to more obvious issues that humans simply ignore anyway. You can get Morbid Obesity to waddle over and belly up to the salad
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I never use the talcum-infused baby powder; I prefer the asbestos-laced stuff on my skin.
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Pure coincidence that your odds of cancer go up as you age, and we all now live much longer than a hundred years ago, right?
Indeed.
If you total all the causes of death, they add up to 100%.
If one cause of death is eliminated, all the others go up.
So the biggest increase in cancer was caused by the smallpox vaccine.
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As it goes, the world's mortality rate stays steady at 100%.
Smallpox vaccine might be given a run for it's money by penicillin and other broad-spectrum antibiotics in it's corresponding increase in cancer.
Cancer screening (Score:2)
Cancer now affects 1 in 3 humans, proving we don't know shit as a species. Greed only reinforces the delusion that certain solutions are "safe".
In other words, you've made some tall statements here. Have any solid proof to back it up, as we all sit here and get sicker and weaker as a species?
Well, we know how to screen for cancer....
Plastic use has gone up over time, but so has the accuracy (and frequency) of cancer screening. Just because there is more cancer diagnosis now doesn't mean that cancer is more prevalent than it used to be; it could just be that cancer screening tech has improved. And that people now live long enough to die from cancer, instead of other causes.
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You said
"Cancer now affects 1 in 3 humans, proving we don't know shit as a species. Greed only reinforces the delusion that certain solutions are "safe".
In other words, you've made some tall statements here. Have any solid proof to back it up, as we all sit here and get sicker and weaker as a species?"
Not so.
Prevalence of cancer ranges from approximately 5.5 percent of the population in the US down to around 0.4 percent in the countries shown in light yellow.
Globally the share of people with canc
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Please cite some scholarly evidence that plastics use is directly linked to the rise in cancer rates you suggest. Or, some kind of counter-argument that those cancer rates (if your 1-in-3 is even correct, you didn't bother to cite a source for that) are not correlated with the increased industrialization of formerly unindustrialized areas and corresponding air and water pollution. Or isn't an effect of a higher median life expectancy - it's hard to die of cancer at 65 if you died of hunger or some other n
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The problem is plastics never go away and even aquatic life in the deepest depths of the oceans have evidence of plastic contamination.
Just Don't Apply Heat (Score:5, Informative)
You can probably eliminate 90% of the issue by avoiding heating food in plastic containers. Microwaving is the most obvious culprit, but also avoid hot drinks in plastic cups. And some fancy teas come in plastic tea bags, which is an obviously bad idea.
Anyone who knows anything about chemistry will understand that heat makes things much more reactive. If you're going to have outgassing or leaching of chemicals from the containers, heat will make it happen much faster. So use plastic for cold stuff only, and don't panic. Sure, there's probably a tiny increase in cancer risk, but that's really unavoidable in our society. You can find other means of reducing your exposure to carcinogens that are both more effective and less awkward.
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But only choose freezer-safe plastics. The cheap polypropylene containers become brittle in the freezer. Polyethylene (Ziploc bags, milk jugs, etc.), BPA-free polycarbonate, and PETG are freezer-safe.
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True, and that's probably why BPA is banned in Europe. I would still assume that heating it will make the problem much worse.
What's in the bottle? (Score:2)
Seems like most plastic bottles are filled with liquids that are high calorie...
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Seems like most plastic bottles are filled with liquids that are high calorie...
Yeah, I wouldn't want the plastic to contaminate my vodka and make it unsafe to drink.
Ex MFG Engineer says NO! (Score:2, Interesting)
Observe some simple things (Score:3)
In addition, do NOT microwave your food in plastic. Also, do not put extreme pH, esp. low pH, in plastic. Both acid and base can cause various plastic to shed into the food. Things such as Tomatoes, Ceviche,Lutefisk should be done in glass.
Increase in autism (Score:2)
Unlike vaccines, plastics are where the research should be. Plastics are one of the bigger exposure differences compared to previous generations, and perhaps could explain the modern spike in the autistic spectrum.
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The modern spike in autism can be largely attributed to better diagnosis and a lack of vitamin D during fetal development largely attributable to people spending less time outdoors or not getting proper supplements through diet.
And how long have we known about the Vitamin D deficiency? It's not like neonatal vitamins and that regimen was invented by Gen-Z.
I get largely dismissive of the claims that increased rates in [insert affliction affecting millions] is solely attributed to We're so much more awesomer at detection. Detection and bragging rights only go so far when we seem to lose focus on the fact that the damn problem still gets worse with every generation.
Need to start using reusable containers (Score:2)
I've got a ridiculously huge stack of #5 plastic containers (cleaned) and stashed away in my home somewhere since it seems like a shame they should be tossed out after one use and sadly my local recycling won't take them. The real solution would be to get manufacturers to standardize on containers and reuse them. Sure advertising could take a hit but that's quite the waste.
We use glass containers with plastic lids (Score:1)
Ask the right questions, not "is it safe?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Things aren't "safe" or "unsafe". Safety is a spectrum subject to tradeoffs. The proper questions are "what are the alternatives?", "are plastic containers safer or less safe than the alternatives?" and "What's the cost/benefit of using plastic versus glass, cermamic, metal, leather, or mallorn leaves?"
Not to state the obvious but the vast majority of humanity lives longer, healthier lives than they did, say, 100 years ago. Having inexpensive, durable, non-porous, sterile (and being inexpensive encourages people to regularly replace containers with new sterile ones), and well-sealing food storage containers undoubtedly contributes to that. By how much, I can't say. So does ubiquitous refrigeration, better food processing, and a zillion other things. What I can say is you can't conclude plastic containers are a worse alternative than an ideal but unobtainable replacement just because an out-gassed chemical is found "in measurable levels".
Alternatives? (Score:2)
Is it better to use glass, aluminium or stainless steel?
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Gold. Gold isn't reactive in any meaningful way. So it's obviously the correct choice if you're worried about your cookware/dishes reacting with your food....
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Let's mix that gold with some lead and call it copper.
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Aluminum and acidic foods aren't a great mix.
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Dont' forget the plastic microbeads in your toothpaste.
wrong question (Score:2)
Almost every food is packaged in plastic (Score:2)
The plastic is already packaging our food well before we consume it or try to portion it into containers. How many flakes of plastic enter our bodies from just the source-to-store?
What I find ironic, is that you ring up all that stuff at the till and they
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Everything you've listed is easily avoidable.
Not really (Score:3)
Plastics eventually degrade due to weathering and exposure to air and sunlight, and leave micro bits of plastic and any additive components in the food they store. A better choice has always been non-lead earthenware and glass containers, or metal containers with inserts.
We know what works. Plastics are an evolutionary dead end, and can easily be replaced by other substances, including algae-based or cellulose-based "plastics" which are not bad for us.
Economy punishes glass buyers a bit (Score:2)
I replaced all of my plastic storage containers with Pyrex glass a couple of years ago. Now, a lot of the lids are cracking and disintegrating. No problem, sez I, I'll just go to the internets and buy replacements.
But Pyrex charges US$7 for replacement lids. They charge less for a new container. So guess I can recycle my entire set of glass storage and replace them for less than getting replacement lids, so waste is the economic answer.
Does anybody know of a brand other than Pyrex where replacement lids are
buy the better pyrex (Score:2)
Pyrex's fancy silicone models cost more but last forever and are easier to work with than those darn plastic lids. It's the ones with glass in the lid surrounded by a lot of molded silicone.
NOTE: cigarettes were harmless for decades after they knew better and it took about 30 years to get the political force to take action and maybe a decade less to convince the public. That was a simpler problem, smaller market, smaller industry, and less corrupt time than today. Plus I'd not be surprised if it dropped c
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Better plastics make better plastics (Score:1)
Weigh Your Risks (Score:2)
Am I more at risk from the two plastic water bottles on my bicycle, or the woman in the Prius fussing with the baby in the car seat and not watching the road? Odds are I'm still better off than the car-seat kid, who's sucking on a plastic pacifier all day long. Pick your poison.
Why I don't trust NY's science (Score:2)
That suggests a causal relationship, however the obvious relationship is that fat kids are fat because they eat too much processed/packaged food, which is where the BP* is coming from. Of course, I'm sure NY will respond to this by trying to ban the chemicals, as it is run primarily by idiots and the NYPIRG, which is also idiots.
Plastics Market Siz (Score:1)