Finnish Scientists Produce a Protein Made 'From Thin Air' (huffpost.com) 151
New submitter SysEngineer shares a report from HuffPost: A new protein made from air, water and renewable electricity could revolutionize our food system within the next decade. Developed by the Finnish company Solar Foods in a lab just outside Helsinki, the protein -- called Solein -- is made using living microbes that are then grown in a fermenter in a process similar to brewing beer. The microbes are fed with carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen all taken from the air. This fermentation process, which takes place in huge vats, produces a liquid that is removed and dried to give the final product -- a yellow flour-like powder with multiple food uses.
If the electricity comes totally from renewables -- the aim is to use solar and wind -- the production process could produce virtually zero greenhouse gas emissions, the company says. It would also require far less land and far less water than traditional agriculture. Solar Foods says just 10 liters (2.1 gallons) of water is needed for every 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) of Solein. To produce 1 kilogram of soy requires 2,500 liters (550 gallons) of water, a figure that rises to more than 15,000 liters (3,300 gallons) for 1 kilogram of beef. The scientists say Solein has three applications: it can be used as a protein additive in existing foods; it could work as a way to help ingredients bind together; and it could also be used as an ingredient in plant-based meat alternatives.
If the electricity comes totally from renewables -- the aim is to use solar and wind -- the production process could produce virtually zero greenhouse gas emissions, the company says. It would also require far less land and far less water than traditional agriculture. Solar Foods says just 10 liters (2.1 gallons) of water is needed for every 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) of Solein. To produce 1 kilogram of soy requires 2,500 liters (550 gallons) of water, a figure that rises to more than 15,000 liters (3,300 gallons) for 1 kilogram of beef. The scientists say Solein has three applications: it can be used as a protein additive in existing foods; it could work as a way to help ingredients bind together; and it could also be used as an ingredient in plant-based meat alternatives.
Anti-marketing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would they pick a product name that sounds reminiscent of Soylent? I can't imagine nobody ever saw the similarity, so at some level they must be good with this. I hope they know what they're doing.
Re:Anti-marketing? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Anti-marketing? (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/b... [forbes.com]
I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a more economical protein supplement and gradually displaces soy.
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Soy protein is more popular as a functional ingredient than as a supplement, but presumably it works for that as well.
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Other than soy sauce not many use soy intentionally as a functional ingredient outside vegetarians who use it as a functional ingredient because they need to supplement the protein or their diet will kill them.
That said, soybean oil is converted to biodiesel and used extensively and no matter how resource efficient this is to produce I doubt it will displace soy unless this researcher starts giving away/selling at low cost the means to start your own ongoing implementation.
Time to test his ethics. If you di
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The majority of soy protein is used in heavily processed meat/confectionery products.
The most significant use related to vegans is probably soy milk, but because of lactose intolerance I doubt even there vegans make much of a dent in the total market.
Re: Anti-marketing? (Score:3)
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Yeah but he makes a good point, Tofu might be a critical part of a vegetarian diet but vegetarian diets probably aren't significant enough to amount to a blip on the radar for usage of a commodity like soy. It is a fringe choice and not mainstream.
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"The majority of soy protein is used in heavily processed meat/confectionery products."
That's a good point.
But there is no question it is a stable of vegetarian diet (vegans are a specific and strict subset of the generic umbrella of non-meat eaters but most if not all depend heavily on soy).
Re:Anti-marketing? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Dude what makes you think this isn't fake news to cover selling what is actually recycled humans?
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And dinosaurs, and the heart of the big bag. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. What's your point?
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No that is chemical transformation which is quite a bit different than eating human meat though not so different than digesting it.
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Re: Anti-marketing? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Anti-marketing? (Score:2)
And can we please.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop with the BS 'required water' rubbish, as if the water is consumed.
By definition 1kg of beef has consumed LESS than 1kg of water - lots of other water has 'passed through' in the process, including what the animal drank, processing, etc.. however that water is almost immediately returned to the environment, and is part of the global water cycle in a clean form within days, or weeks at most. It is NOT consumed.
Do we count the water a fish lives in as part of ITS meats 'water footprint' I wonder?
Perhaps we should count the toilet flushes in the facility that makes this new engineered 'food' as part of its footprint..
I would love to know what the energy cost per kg on this stuff is, and what its 'multiple food uses' are, and how that would compare with say krill, which exist in quantities SO large that using it for a human protein source could not possibly impact its scale.... All without the need/risk of an engineered foodstuff.
Re:And can we please.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Most uses for water do not require "clean" water, water which is dirty in some ways is generally fine if not preferable for watering crops.
The water which you used to wash your cattle and the barns in which they live will do fine for watering the crops.
The water which your cattle drink will mostly pass through the cattle and come out as dirty water otherwise known as "urine", which can also be used for watering crops.
You do not need to feed treated clean water to cattle, they will be happy drinking from riv
Re:And can we please.. (Score:4, Informative)
"The water which your cattle drink will mostly pass through the cattle and come out as dirty water otherwise known as "urine", which can also be used for watering crops."
No, it really can't unless you want to nitrogen burn your crops. Yes if you dilute it enough it would work but it's like a tsp to a gallon of additional water which defeats the point.
Re:And can we please.. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is how you get e. coli contamination of your vegetable crops. Manure contaminated water gets sucked into the plants and even the bleach washes the salad makers use can't kill it because its captured inside the plant's cellulose matrix.
I agree with the general idea that we don't need reverse-osmosis purified water for every possible water use, and that grey water with minimal filtering (usually just solids) is ideal for many re-use cases.
But if you're gonna re-user water contaminated with sewage of some kind, it's gonna need more intensive filtration or be injected in small quantities at the start of a much longer water cycle so it gets cleansed through natural processes.
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This is how you get e. coli contamination of your vegetable crops. Manure contaminated water gets sucked into the plants and even the bleach washes the salad makers use can't kill it because its captured inside the plant's cellulose matrix.
I agree with the general idea that we don't need reverse-osmosis purified water for every possible water use, and that grey water with minimal filtering (usually just solids) is ideal for many re-use cases.
But if you're gonna re-user water contaminated with sewage of some kind, it's gonna need more intensive filtration or be injected in small quantities at the start of a much longer water cycle so it gets cleansed through natural processes.
Wait, are you really arguing that "manure contaminated water" cannot be used for watering plants? Wait until you hear about how manure has been used for, oh, I don't know, all of agricultural history?
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/health... [www.cbc.ca]
The problem has really been with produce eaten raw.
Go ahead and use manure in your grain fields or with any other product that is subject to refining and more importantly heat cooking, as it will kill any lingering bacteria.
But lettuce is especially vulnerable because of its high water content and the fact that it goes from field to store so quickly.
Re:And can we please.. (Score:5, Insightful)
however that water is almost immediately returned to the environment,
"Water molecules in the environment" is a thing that is very much different from "clean water in any given area that is technically possible to cap at a reasonable cost and can deliver the needed flow consistently", buddy.
There may be a lot of the first, but the second is severely limited and very vulnerable to a lot of things people do to it.
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The first becomes the second by tossing it through some gravel, sand ,and then charcoal in succession or even just by filtering through some rock in the earth. If the source is biologically contaminated somehow you can play it safe and toss in a chlorine tablet. Chlorine, gravel, sand, and charcoal, and clean water are all completely renewable and renewable at a cost so low I doubt this protein will ever compete. The energy requirement (in a place which isn't too arid for people to keep living in while simu
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The first becomes the second by tossing it through some gravel, sand ,and then charcoal in succession or even just by filtering through some rock in the earth.
No, it doesn't, except in insignificant, edge cases.
I will grant you, it does get more complicated in drastically overpopulated areas like urban environments
50% of the world population lives in cities. USA is 90% urbanized. You claim you have a solution that does nothing for most of the world. Aren't you a bit disingenuous?
instead of spreading to a density
Communist countries had this thing called "residence permit", without which you could not change residence even within one country. Is that what you propose, or you have something less totalitarian in mind?
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Colbert style, nice.
That isn't really an attack on women it's just an inconvenient truth for part of their agenda. Just as what scientific models indicating would happen on Earth if God stopped the sun isn't an attack on Christianity, just an inconvenient truth for their beliefs/agenda.
As far as I know excess estrogen wouldn't be shrinking your penis but it may well be shrinking your testicles and giving you puffy nipples which is something many trans people want for themselves if that helps? Also, there is
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Myself, I never risk drinking contaminated water, I always drink beer. Or whisky if I'm being extra careful.
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Correct, one kg animal meat is about 700 gm water (70%), so any other utilized in its growth, farming, and processing is simply "passing through" and returns to nature. But your comment is fallacious because of the sources an sinks for that pass-through water.
Source: Water input into the meat growing requires safe sources from wells, aquifers, reservoirs. It is not coming from untreated pond water, ocean water and momentary rainfall. Those clean resources are limited, over-utilized, and failing or disap
Ahh, the uneducated city dweller... (Score:2)
Water input into the meat growing requires safe sources from wells, aquifers, reservoirs. It is not coming from untreated pond water
So I take it you've never driven in the country, where you can see countless livestock of all kinds drinking from open untreated ponds or streams...
Do you think a cattle rancher is out there giving each cow a bottle of Evion with a straw???
LOL.
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Re:And can we please.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop with the BS 'required water' rubbish, as if the water is consumed.
By that logic, my car uses no energy.
The energy in the friction and turbulence, plus the heat energy radiated by the engine, is exactly the same as the energy in the gasoline. No energy was created or destroyed.
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No one is interested in the total water content of the system, unless we are talking about space. When we say water is consumed we mean it was taken from the total delta amount, the water that is passing through a particular point in the hydrologic cycle at any given time. When that water is consumed it is changed from a usable liquid form into another form and isn't available until it falls as rain again, which most likely will be somewhere else. If California was to immediately use all of its available wa
krillburger? (Score:2)
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I was going to say that this sounds like Soylent Yellow to me.
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A replacement for gluten and pink slime (Score:4, Interesting)
So basically they reinvented (Score:2)
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Sounds to me like "just a plant" that is hyper-efficient at producing protein, which is awesome.
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"Just a plant," or an over-processed synthetic fake-food nightmare?
Most likely neither. What you see in the summary is an online rag substituting "Local news site" in the good ole PhD new cycle comic ( http://phdcomics.com/comics/ar... [phdcomics.com] ), while the Slashdot editor is doing their part as the Grandma. Except it is a grandma from a family without PhD grandkids.
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Agreed
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Well there are plants which are good at producing protein, just usually not the complete set of proteins we need or that our bodies can use to synthesize any missing proteins it needs... because we are made of meat and most efficiently fueled by... meat. Some plants like hemp seed actually do contain complete protein alongside a perfect dietary ratio of omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids. You can even grow those seeds up and make rope, strong fabric, and paper and they produce chemicals that help stimulate app
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The headline is BS (Score:3)
...is made using living microbes that are then grown in a fermenter in a process similar to brewing beer.
"similar to brewing beer". I guess those fermenters are full of complex sugars then. In which case, it's not only grown from "thin air" and the headline is just clickbait.
From TFS: (Score:3)
Developed by the Finnish company Solar Foods in a lab just outside Helsinki, the protein -- called Solein -- is made using living microbes that are then grown in a fermenter in a process similar to brewing beer.
The microbes are fed with carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen all taken from the air.
It was like... in the next sentence.
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The microbes are fed with carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen all taken from the air.
It was like... in the next sentence.
Which is not exactly true.
It still needs potassium, sodium, phosphorous, plus the minerals derived from the soil that the microbes first grew in.
To produce the powder, Solar Foods first creates hydrogen through electrolysis (splitting water cells in a bioreactor using electricity). It then adds the hydrogen to carbon dioxide, as well as nutrients such as potassium, sodium, and phosphorus, and feeds this into microbes derived from soil.
Now don't get me wrong. It still looks promising.
But the headline and the summary are a bit of a oversimplification of what's really needed.
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Summary does not tell the whole story (Score:5, Informative)
The microbes are fed with carbon dioxide, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen all taken from the air.
Except if you look beyond their website, you find this: [dirt-to-dinner.com]
Solein, a complete protein, is created from the combination of a proprietary bacteria, CO2, water, and electricity. The fermentation process is entirely natural and similar to the production of yeast. But instead of sugars, their unique microbes consume CO2 and hydrogen for energy via water electrolysis, a process of splitting water cells using electricity. Other nutrients are added, too, such as potassium, sodium, and phosphorus.
Ah, I see. So what's the carbon impact of having to procure those elements?
Also, they claim it's got 'all the essential amino acids', but I see no amino acid profile; does it really? Or is it deficient in one or more, regardless of actually containing them? Plants have protein, too, but most are deficient in one or more amino, which is why strict vegetarians have to eat specific combinations of certain foods in an attempt to avoid malnutrition.
Re:Summary does not tell the whole story (Score:5, Interesting)
Solein, a complete protein, is created from the combination of a proprietary bacteria, CO2, water, and electricity. The fermentation process is entirely natural and similar to the production of yeast. But instead of sugars, their unique microbes consume CO2 and hydrogen for energy via water electrolysis, a process of splitting water cells using electricity. Other nutrients are added, too, such as potassium, sodium, and phosphorus.
Ah, I see. So what's the carbon impact of having to procure those elements?
I brew a bit, and nutrients are added in quite small amounts compared to the sugars being fermented. Phosphorus seems the only one that will need to be added in a significant amount (as protein does contain significant phosphorus). And since phosphorus is used in fertilizers, I would assume this more direct application will be more efficient and have a lower environmental cost than all the other ways phosphorus is used to produce our foods.
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Phosphorus seems the only one that will need to be added in a significant amount (as protein does contain significant phosphorus).
Unless a protein is phosphorylated, it contains no phosphorus.
Phosphorylation of a protein is a post-translational modification that can modify protein function and for signalling.
DNA and RNA contain the bulk of biophosporous in cells.
Cells do need a nitrogen source to make both proteins and nucleotides.
This is why yeast do not grow well on sugar alone as there is only a carbon source
and no nitrogen, phosphorus or minerals needed for cell division.
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"Living on air" not just for anorexics any more (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I could see this being useful for long duration space missions, if the volume and energy requirements were modest enough.
Interesting technology.
Re:"Living on air" not just for anorexics any more (Score:4, Insightful)
So what? Everything you eat is watered with filtered urine and grown in filtered shit. Long term space travel is going to require recycling of ALL resources.
The only thing I'm worried about is whether or not it makes me fart the way soy protein does.
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Actually I'd go further given the number of living things on earth which urinate and how long they have been here. It is unlikely there is much or any H20 that has never been a component of urine. it ceases to be urine when the microbes and uric acid are gone.
Overall environmental impact? (Score:2)
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I expect that if it's been domesticated it will depend on it's cultivators to protect it against predators. That's true of just about every thing domesticated to benefit people. Just try to imagine a dairy cow surviving in the wild. (Perhaps some strains of beef cattle could. And pigs are known to successfully go feral. Cats, too, though it's questionable how domesticated they are.)
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They produce nothing poisonous and their fitness in a non sterilized environment is pathetic. Don't worry about it.
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Forget the food (Score:2)
Can they make beer out of thin air? Because that would be pretty interesting and like totally organic and stuff.
Its people! (Score:2)
Solein Green is made out of people!
Soo.... (Score:2)
Finnair (Score:2)
there is joke in there somewhere
Solar foods on solar Roadways! (Score:2)
Revolutionize this, revolutionize that (Score:2)
And in a pinch... (Score:2)
If you can make it from Carbon and Methane ... (Score:2)
... and it covers a healthy variety of diet, you are my new Heroes. ... I'm not even joking.
Not impressive at all (Score:2)
However, if the same student had managed to create a protein from _thick_ air, I would be extremely impressed.
uhh. right. (Score:2)
Solar Foods says just 10 liters (2.1 gallons) of water is needed for every 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) of Solein. To produce 1 kilogram of soy requires 2,500 liters (550 gallons) of water, a figure that rises to more than 15,000 liters (3,300 gallons) for 1 kilogram of beef.
that's like comparing 3 completely different things.. If their Solein would be an end-product like beef, yeah, than the comparison holds up, but it's not. as I read it, it's not even completely comparable to Soy.. As I gather it's not more comparable to flour..
Not only protein (Score:2)
It contains 20% carbs and 10% fat as well so I might be feasible to use a closed system in space, so Matt Damon can get off his potato diet.
real food (Score:2)
soon enough it will be time to say goodbye to real, natural, unprocessed food.
everything we'll eat will be made in a lab or whatever.
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"Requires water" bullshit! (Score:3)
They always blindly repeat this nonsense without thinking.
Those 550 liters aren't used up, now are they?? Hell, with growing plants, it hasn't even gotten dirtly!
It just flows into the ground, and some of it gets passed through the plant and evaporated back into the air!
Catch it again, and you can drink it right away!
So would you kindly stop that "uses so much water" bullshit??
It's not a.chemical plant that literally transforms the molecules to another chemical and it is lost "forever"!
Frankly, that sounds more like what YOU are doing!
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Possibly in California. The USDA says in 2012 about 28% of harvested cropland in the US was irrigated (not necessarily continuously). The area of irrigated land has been decreasing as well.
Worldwide, I would think that irrigated land is an even smaller proportion. Irrigation is expensive. You use it on high value, high intensity crops.
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Big deal? (Score:2)
Solein, Solein, Soleeeein... (Score:2)
I'm begging of you, please don't take my man.
Safe? (Score:2)
What (Score:2)
Thick air (Score:2)
Again with the water (Score:2)
Even at that, the idea that a Holstein moo cow is carrying around a tank of almost 10 million liters of water is silly. That's a BOE for a 3300 Kilo adult Holstein at 3000 Water useage. Hell, 10 million liters here in the Northeast is a drop in our soggy w
Old news (Score:2)
People have been predicting for decades that we'll be using bioreactors (usually yeast or algae) to feed ourselves in the dystopian future. It might happen, but it's not going to until we're out of other options.
Growing some bacteria in a bioreactor isn't that revolutionary. You can do it on your kitchen counter if you want to.
No insects, at least (Score:2)
I realize that there's probably little functional difference, but I've got to say I find this about a million times more appealing than any protein extracted from insects.
Just 'thin air', eh? (Score:2)
Solar Foods says just 10 liters (2.1 gallons) of water is needed for every 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) of Solein.
Ok, ok. Thin air AND water! But that's it!
If the electricity comes totally from renewables
..and electricity. But THAT'S IT, we swear!
Isn't this just basically hydroponics?
Just how is it different... (Score:2)
... from any other plant-based protein? "thin air" and "renewable electricity" sounds like green-washing, otherwise, truly, "process similar to brewing beer".
Paul B.
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Yep.
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Yeah, I was expecting something more impressive. Bacteria already breed using compounds taken from the air - what's so special about that?
I'd been thinking a while back, when there were major cities in Syria under siege, whether it would be possible to generate digestible (even if unhealthy and disgusting) caloric compounds from any waste hydrocarbon matter via industrial processes. For example, fatty acids are linear carboxylic acids within a given mass range, which can be generated from simple hydrocarbo
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This way of producing food can reduce the environmental impact of humanity's food production (land use, water, greenhouse gases) to nearly zero. That is why it is revolutionary.
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Soil loses a lot more water and nutrients to the environment than a fermentation tank and it's hard to just put any old protein in a plant and easily separate it
I suspect protein isolation and removing off flavours will be far easier for microbial protein than plant protein. They've been working on pea protein for decades and it still tastes pretty beany ... not to mention there's a large number of people allergic to legumes. On top of allergies, the thyroidal/oestrogenic effect of soy is of significant con
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Look at animal feed research for a little less politicized arena. Soy is exceptionally filled with biologically active compounds, which causes problems.
As a small component of our diet it's probably not much of a factor in health. Trying to use soy to have a vegan high protein diet day in day out is a bad idea.
Especiall since we still don't know it all. (Score:2)
We haven't figured out all and everything the body needs yet. Implying that, would be absurd.
Anyone who tried to live solely off of those diet shakes, no matter how "complete", even with a full amount of calories, will have noticed the deficiencies sneaking up after merely 2-4 weeks. Like the hair getting worse, the skin too, digestion becoming weird, feeling tired and uncomfortable, etc.
On top of that, proteins are very sensitive molecules, that easily get denatured. And then the effect they have on you bo
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The point from this article is that they're saying that they can do it for two orders of magnitude less water. Usable fresh water supply is a bottleneck. Sure water isn't "used up" in a farm, but it evaporates, sinks into the ground, etc, and you have to pay for your water allotment.