Scientists Attempt To Recreate 'Overview Effect' From Earth (theguardian.com) 70
Researchers aim to recreate intense emotional experience astronauts reported on seeing Earth from space for the first time. From a report: The spectacle of Earth suspended in space was so overwhelming for Edgar Mitchell that the Apollo 14 astronaut and sixth man on the moon wanted to grab politicians by the scruff of the neck and drag them into space to witness the view. Such drastic measures may not be necessary, however. Scientists are about to welcome the first participants on an unprecedented clinical trial that aims to reproduce the intense emotional experience, known as the "Overview effect," from the comfort of a health spa.
If the trial goes well, what led Mitchell to develop "an instant global consciousness" and a profound connection to Earth and its people could be recreated with nothing more than a flotation tank, a half tonne of Epsom salts, and a waterproof virtual reality (VR) headset. "There's a lot of division and polarisation and disconnection between people," said Steven Pratscher, a psychologist and principal investigator on the trial at the University of Missouri. "We'd like to see if we can recreate the Overview effect on Earth to have an impact on those issues." Pratscher will recruit about 100 volunteers who are willing to don the VR headset and clamber into a dark, salt-laden flotation tank at the city's Clarity Float spa. The silence and buoyancy will mimic the sensation of floating in space, while the VR headset plays high-definition, 360 degree immersive video recorded by the Silicon Valley startup, SpaceVR.
Total Perspective Vortex (Score:5, Funny)
Why not plug in an Atomic Vector Plotter to a piece of Faerie Cake? To get the full effect.
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Well too many people are so pig headed that reason will no work.
Being most people are on the stance. If I am a Democrat then All the Things the Republicans do is Evil! If I am a Republican then everything the Democrats are Evil.
I have seen people change their views on topic nearly overnight because the political party decided to change its stance on something.
1990's A law was proposed to in essence force everyone to get health insurance so everyone is covered.. The GOP pushed that idea, and the Democrats
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1990's A law was proposed to in essence force everyone to get health insurance so everyone is covered.. The GOP pushed that idea, and the Democrats opposed it stating that the GOP is in bed with Big Insurance.
It should be mentioned this was because it opposed the Dems pushing a bigger plan to make healthcare way more affordable.
I was in Taiwan just after that, and experienced really good healthcare for 1/6 the cost (comparing ratios of total countries health expenditures vs GDP).
I'm not saying we have to do exactly like them, just that stealing some smart parts of that would be a better idea. And that's what the Dems were pushing at the time. Obama immediately gave up on it (single-payer), and started ou
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perspective (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm more afraid of ..m (Score:2)
Darth Cheney and Lloyd Blankfeyn.
Hitler is so last century. Outdated open evilness. How primitive!
Nah. Today you gotta be behind the scenes creepy. Like the X-Files Smoking Man. Not even evil anymore. Just good old business as usual "side effects" of suffering and death.
Now *there* is glory to be made!
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Personally, I use Cheney as an example of someone who is basically evil. On the plus side, this does not Godwin conversations. On the minus side, how someone takes this example is largely down to their tribal identification.
I find human nature hugely disappointing.
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What do you think hitler would have thought
I would wager he had the same emotional effect. Remember fundamentally Hitler did what he did not because he thought of himself as some homicidal maniac but because he wanted to *better* the human race itself.
He would have gone up, been astounded, felt a strong emotional link to mankind, and come back even more dedicated than before to "perfect" the world in the form of the ideal Aryan master-race.
Sounds like a lot of work (Score:5, Interesting)
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Just my thoughts exactly.
Drugs would probably be more effective in stimulating some desired mental state.
And the results would be just as "valid".
Re:Sounds like a lot of work (Score:5, Interesting)
This is literally the reason psychedelics were make illegal under Nixon's Drug War statutes. There were declassified documents a few years ago saying they should target cannabis to criminalize the Black community and psychedelics because white kids were turning into peace-and-love adults which would wind up as bad business for the military-industrial complex.
It's so bad that they criminalized the only known medication for treatment-resistant PTSD which is currently leading to about 3000 veteran suicides a year, not to mention the women who are beset with the trauma of sexual violence. MAPS.org has been working for 30 years on that one and just started Phase-3 clinical trials to fight the system with the system (FDA has granted "breakthrough" status). If anybody deserves a year-end extra $100 tax-deductable donation it's those guys.
The astronauts were right, but this VR-in-a-tank idea isn't scalable.
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>The astronauts were right, but this VR-in-a-tank idea isn't scalable.
It's a *lot* more scalable than sending people to orbit.
Meanwhile, psychedelics can do incredible things - but for every psychonaut there's lots of party-bros that will write off the entire experience as drug-induced hallucination so that it has no lasting effects.
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Just because something is a hallucination doesn't mean the wisdom it's imparting is false. Put your mind in an unfamiliar operating environment where the normal rules don't apply, and it can re-evaluate a lot of old "bedrock" assumptions from a new perspective, without the emotional "lock-in" that's normally present. Potentially a much more valid perspective, even including the intoxication, since you laid most that bedrock as a child who actually had very little clue about how the world really worked, an
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Well, getting them into orbit is pretty scaleable. Getting them there safely and in one piece; or getting them back home (safely) is the rub.
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Not really. Getting them above the atmosphere is relatively easy - but you've still got the difficult 95% of the journey in front of you to accelerate to orbit at that altitude. Just putting a 2' diameter radio transmitter in orbit (sputnik 1) required a massive amount of rocketry to accomplish, and while the technology is becoming cheaper, the raw amount of energy required is still staggering thanks to the rocket equation. (Technically, it only requires the energy equivalent of two gallons of gas per kg
Which PTSD drug would that be exactly? (Score:2)
My dad has massive PTSD.
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The astronauts were right, but this VR-in-a-tank idea isn't scalable.
The emotional response isn't required to be continuous. It's a response people remember. Why is it that so many people straight away jump to the conclusion that we need to be addicted to everything.
I would gladly (Score:3, Funny)
To leave them there
Re:I would gladly (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that they get replaced by other politicians who claim not to be politicians.
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Re:I would gladly (Score:5, Insightful)
As my Grandfather once said, "If you think you've got a problem with the professional politicians, just wait till to you get a chance to meet the amateur ones." I get everyone takes exception to politicians who get way too comfy in their position and I don't advocate that their tenure alone should be a reason for them to maintain office, but compare them to officials who get into office and have no idea what they are doing and wish to do nothing but upend the long term agenda already put into place. If I grow tired of the person who is currently there, I want the new person to just change course, not rebuild the entire ship. But it seems that the en vogue thing to do is to get into office and set ablaze anything that their predecessor had created.
The office of the President or heck even Governor, in my mind, is one that's going to be radically changing. As long as the head of state is somewhat open minded to the push back that comes from the legislative machinery, I feel they're doing their part. But when the legislators are the ones grabbing the firewood and oil, and asking "who's got the match?" It is then, I begin to really have problems with this notion of "someone outside the beltway" mentality.
Re: I would gladly (Score:2, Interesting)
The solution is to devolve power. Abolish the big federal agencies and give the power back to the states. Abolish big state agencies and give the power back to communities. Power corrupts. Let's just not centralize power so much.
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If you think you've got a problem with the professional politicians, just wait till to you get a chance to meet the amateur ones.
I think the problem isn't one of professional vs amateur, it's one of career vs non-career. When people grow up their life wanting to be a politician and study nothing but law or political science and then make decisions on actual science, and economics then shit goes sideways.
Trump is a misstep. It generally would be good to have someone with a deep understanding of business to have the top job, but many countries actually do a good job of having non career politicians running the place, and they can do so
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I don't see this as a problem. Trump is a misstep but it is high fucking time that we get rid of career politicians and replace our leaders with scientists, engineers, and people who actually have a fucking clue about the things they are supposed to decide. At the same time we can completely abolish lobbyists and the country would be a far better place.
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As much as we hate politicians, we forget that the alternative to a politician is a General.
You can't recreate it on earth (Score:5, Insightful)
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Your brain doesn't know where it is; it makes a number of inferences from neural signals and this state occurs as a side effect. I bet you could reproduce this state with drugs.
Re:You can't recreate it on earth (Score:4, Insightful)
Your perception is not limited to just sensory input, but also the totality of knowledge that you posess about that sensory input, which in turn can alter your impression of it.
Under the influence of drugs you could easily mentally forget that what you might be experiencing is artificially induced, but once you have regain your faculties, you will still know that the experience you had was artificial, and not real, and your impression of that experience will still be altered by that.
The Overview Effect is not simply something to be experienced in the same way that one a thrilling amusement park ride and then proceeds to carry on with their life afterwards as if nothing had happened, but the signfiicance of it les in that it actually creates an indelible and lasting impression on a person's outlook upon the world. It changes you, and that's what makes it interesting.
Of course it may be possible to experience at least a facsimile of the Overview Effect without actually having been to space, but a key component of it is not the mere sensory experience of seeing the earth from space, but lies in the conscious realization that here we are, clinging tightly to this ball hurtling through an empty void... so insignficant compared to the vastness of space, and yet somehow more precious than all of it. That regardless of skin color or language or religion, regardless ofwealth or political position, we are all the same underneath, and the fighting that we enage in amongst ourselves over territory or resources or ideologies is simply too dumb for any words. It is a conscious realization that this world is a place that is truly worth trying to preserve, despite the possibly irreparable damage we may have already done to it, and a strong sense that one bears a personal responsiblity at least on some level, to always try and make this world a better place, not just for themselves and those that they may know, but for all of the generations to come.
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Your perception is not limited to just sensory input, but also the totality of knowledge that you posess about that sensory input, which in turn can alter your impression of it.
You are talking about a completely conscious process. When bombarded with external sensory input the "knowledge" about it being fake is very quickly forgotten providing the sensory inputs make sense to your mind. I.e. if you're playing some silly game where you have no arms and have to pickup things you can't feel then you consciously know the sensory input isn't real. If you can fake it, or simulate an experience where those senses aren't required (e.g. floating weightless in space / flotation chamber) the
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My point is that such an experience, regardless of how it is achieved, is momentary.... after it is over and your mind has had an opportunity to calm down, you can usually carry on with your life as if it never happened.
The Overview Effect is not like that. It is a lasting change to a person's entire worldview that persists far beyond the sensory
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Hey, cool idea. I have you bookmarked for now, since I'm not near any of your existing locations, but I see more are opening in January. And it might be worth taking the trip anyway.
I already booked a normal float session after reading the 12/27 dupe of this article; it seems really interesting.
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I wish you the best of luck in this regard, but my above point is that I believe it is in no small part because of reality of the experience of literally seeing the Earth from outer space, and not simply a photograph or movie, regardless of fidelity, that the Overview Effect creates such a lasting impression upon those who experience it. At best, I expect that a sufficiently high fidelity VR experience may cause a person to briefly experience some of those sensations, but the significance of the Overview
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VR can at best imitate some of sensations of being in space, but it cannot replace the actual experience of it, any more than pornography can replace being in a loving and healthy relationship.
You clearly have never worn a VR headset. The brain is an easily fooled device to the point where you can get so sucked into an experience that sudden realisation that you're not there can be incredibly jarring. Pornography vs a healthy relationship are completely different things. However VR pornography can be a great alternative to seeing a hooker, with the biggest roadblock there being tactical feedback. And tactical feedback is something that isn't relevant here.
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You are completely missing my point... the reason that the Overview Effect is so interesting is because it persists *BEYOND* the mere sensory inputs that one happens to be receiving which seem to create it. It is therefore not unlikely that a key component of it lies in how the experience of seeing the earth from orbit assimilates into the totality of a person's real experiences. The knowledge that an experience was synthesized would invariably negatively detract from any hope that you might create a la
Won't work the same (Score:2, Insightful)
Based on research I conducted in graduate school on out of body experiences, the effect will be far subtler, and although they may find statistical evidence, the effect may not be significant. I suspect some will be more susceptible than others owing to a variety of factors. Cool idea though!
Re:Won't work the same (Score:4, Insightful)
Based on research I conducted in graduate school on out of body experiences, the effect will be far subtler, and although they may find statistical evidence, the effect may not be significant. I suspect some will be more susceptible than others owing to a variety of factors. Cool idea though!
Float tanks don't really give an out of body experience (at least in my experience) but they are incredibly relaxing. To me it's more a chance for getting into your own mind and either letting your mind wander or explore some mindfulness. In any case I highly recommend it.
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A good Margarita and a Hot tub will do the same.
Re: Won't work the same (Score:3)
The research I did was more along the lines of the Rubber Hand Illusion (there's a number of videos on YouTube if you're interested in seeing it in action). Basically involves receiving conflicting sensory data between modalities which leads your brain to incorporate the fake hand as part of your body schema. The flotation tank is a nice idea, but the VR is what's really going to drive the effect.
Few people will have this experience (Score:3, Interesting)
This is just another example of people high in trait Openness having strong feelings. These people think that everyone feels like they do. They are wrong. Few of us are like this.
Studies have also shown that people who are high in openness, like those who are high in agreeableness, are less likely to be prejudiced. Because they are more open to different cultures, belief systems, ideas, and kinds of people, people who are high in openness tend to be less prejudiced than people low in openness. In light of all of this, itâ(TM)s not surprising that open people tend to report that their relationships with other people are more satisfying. They tend to get along with people better, and other people tend to like them more. A quick primer: The Science Behind the Five Major Personality Types [thegreatcoursesdaily.com].
Theyâ(TM)re higher in what researchers call âoeaesthetic sensitivity.â People higher in openness enjoy sensory experiences such as art and music and beautiful scenery more than people low in openness do, and they report feeling more absorbed and more emotionally moved by these kinds of experiences. They even report that they get chills or goosebumps more often when they see beautiful things or hear beautiful music.
People who aren't high in Openness aren't like this. We are much more concerned about keeping our jobs in the face of looming layoffs, or our kids not getting hurt by other kids in school. This desire to share the amazing view with everyone is based on the ignorance that high Openness people have that makes them think everyone is the same as they are. They can't see it.
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So you're suggesting that every military fly-boy who's gone to space over the years is an abnormally open and sensitive individual? (Almost everyone who has ever gone to space is military.)
Maybe it's just me, but most of the open and sensitive people I know recognize the military as a tool of tyranny and exploitation, and stay far away from it.
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He thinks one can't be concerned about keeping our jobs in the face of looming layoffs, or our kids not getting hurt by other kids in school, and be open to different cultures, belief systems, ideas, and kinds of people at the same time.
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Doesn't matter how great the people doing the fighting are - they're just the weapon - morally neutral at best. The question is who is wielding the weapon, and to what ends.
And the US military in particular has been wielded almost exclusively for oppression and tyranny since the end of WWI and II.
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They are wrong. Few of us are like this.
This is just another example of DNS-and-BIND complete lack of understanding of humans (I used to think "fellow" humans, but based on his posting history I'm not sure anymore). Few of us are like him.
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So I've been selling these on Amazon (Score:2)
So, like waterboarding for the Greater Good (Score:1)
Sounds good (Score:2)
Overview Effect set in music (Score:1)
where is the scruff? (Score:1)
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It's on dogs.
https://www.omlet.co.uk/guide/dogs/daily_care_of_a_dog/how_to_pick_up_a_dog [omlet.co.uk]
Except its from behind a screen door (Score:2)
Considering no VR set in existence is free of the screendoor effect, this will in no way mimic the space experience. If anything it will turn people off it.
Re: Except its from behind a screen door (Score:2)
Oh really? Why not sell that commercially?