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Science Technology

Mystery Sounds From Storms Could Help Predict Tornadoes (theguardian.com) 34

Mysterious rumbles that herald tornadoes could one day be used to predict when and where they will strike, according to researchers. From a report: Storms emit sounds before tornadoes form, but the signals at less than 20Hz are below the limit for human hearing. What causes these rumbles has also been a conundrum. Now researchers said they have narrowed down the reasons for the sounds -- an important factor in harnessing the knowledge to improve warnings. "The three possibilities are core oscillations [in the tornado], pressure relaxation, and latent heat effects," said Dr Brian Elbing, of Oklahoma State University, who is part of the team behind the research. "They are all possibilities because what we have seen is that the signal occurs before the tornado touches the ground, continues after it touches the ground, and then disappears some time after the tornado leaves the ground."

The latest work was presented at the annual meeting of the American Physical Society's Division of Fluid Dynamics in Seattle. The low-frequency sound produced by tornadoes has been known about for several decades, but Elbing said a big problem has been a lack of understanding of what causes the sounds, and difficulties in unpicking them from a tornado and other aspects of the weather. The subject has seen renewed interest in recent years, with Elbing saying it could prove particularly useful for hilly areas such as Dixie Alley, which stretches from Texas to North Carolina. "Infrasound doesn't need line of sight like radar, so there is hope that this could significantly improve warnings in Dixie Alley where most deaths [from tornadoes] occur," he said.

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Mystery Sounds From Storms Could Help Predict Tornadoes

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  • Green skies up above (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gwolf ( 26339 ) <gwolf@@@gwolf...org> on Thursday November 28, 2019 @07:25PM (#59467886) Homepage

    Back in 2012, I was visiting my wife's family in Argentina, in a smaller city ~500Km from the capital. A storm was approaching. Her sister said, "hmmm, the sky looks green. We will have hail."
    Five minutes later, we were having the strongest thunderstorm I have ever seen. Dozens of trees were uprooted, cars were smashed.
    And, of course, there was hail. Lots of it.

    • by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki&gmail,com> on Thursday November 28, 2019 @09:27PM (#59468076) Homepage

      That's pretty normal here in tornado alley(central US to the US east coast through to southern ontario), usually any weird colours like that mean GTFO and head for a basement/inside room of a building or when driving look for a ditch. Pink and yellow clouds happen too usually with downbursts, seen trees snapped in half and trucks knocked clean off the freeway from them.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        They can predict them reliably by thermal imaging the clouds, the ground those clouds will pass over and of course the shape of the terrain and how that impacts those airflows. Combine all three from orbit and there should be no problem in forecasting the size and time of the tornado, it's duration and direction, to some degree of accuracy, dependent upon how accurate that thermal mapping is of atmosphere and ground and of course the land contours and nature, trees et al to alter and slow wind patterns. Dur

        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          Thermal imaging isn't a thing that exists everywhere even at radar installations and whatnot. A lot of places are just starting to upgrade into dual polarization and extending the low and mid-bands for tornado warnings 105-120km(65mi-75mi) to 240km(150mi) . And in places like the US plains and rural Canada thermal imaging will likely never be a thing beyond storm chasers who follow and watch developing storms. Which are one of the big post-storm ways that both Environment Canada and the National Weather

    • Of the hundreds of storms we've documented over the years, there doesn't seem to be a strong causal link between green storms and tornadoes, or even hail for that matter. The green color appears to be a byproduct of sunlight having its other colors stripped off on its trip through the atmosphere. Air scatters the blue end of the spectrum more readily (that scattered light is why the sky appears blue). In the late afternoon and evening, sunlight takes a longer path through the atmosphere and much of the bl
  • by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Thursday November 28, 2019 @07:28PM (#59467896)

    News at 11. FFT plots too.

    I'm curious as to how soon the Tornado storms vs non-tornado storms diverge on the frequency spectrum. My one of our undergrad controls labs were finding which cylinder had a broken spark plug with just the FFT and matlab.

  • The low-frequency sound produced by tornadoes has been known about for several decades, but Elbing said a big problem has been a lack of understanding of what causes the sounds, and difficulties in unpicking them from a tornado and other aspects of the weather.

    I get why distinguishing the sound is important, but why do you need to know what causes it in order to make use of it? Isn't it enough just to make lots of recordings of it, track whether a tornado occurred or not, and analyze the sounds to determin

  • signals at less than 20Hz are below the limit for human hearing.

    False. You can perceive well down to single digits [wikipedia.org] of frequency. It takes more SPL, but 10-15 Hz is readily audible, easily heard with enough SPL.

    • by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Thursday November 28, 2019 @08:11PM (#59467980)

      You can perceive well down to single digits [wikipedia.org] of frequency.

      Well, it seems that the storms are emitting the Brown Note [wikipedia.org].

      That might explain why tornadoes scare folks shitless.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      signals at less than 20Hz are below the limit for human hearing.

      False. You can perceive well down to single digits [wikipedia.org] of frequency. It takes more SPL, but 10-15 Hz is readily audible, easily heard with enough SPL.

      Humans perceive frequencies less than 12 Hz, but not as sounds; instead they are felt as vibrations (not sounds per se) in the body. The normal lowest frequency for hearing (as opposed to perceiving) is double digits [wikipedia.org]

      . The Wikipedia paragraph you linked to has used the word perceive and not sound quite deliberately. I could provide citations for this but a simple search in Google Scholar gives so many results why bother?

      • Perception via the auditory system is generally referred to as hearing. Is it a tone? No - but it is a sound, since it is perception via the auditory (sonic) system. Oh, and sound IS vibration in the body, coupled acoustically to you. Tonality is lost - but the sound is still heard.
        • *I* checked and *I* cannot hear 20Hz or lower via quality headphones. If I put my finger on the headphones I can feel it.

          Through loudspeakers, I can feel it in my chest at frequencies I can't hear with my ears.

          • Check Hensel et al 2007 [sciencedirect.com]. It was a test of perception at 6 Hz - and there was definite auditory response. Perhaps your quality headphones are not quality enough? A good pair of high-end IEMs will provide much better low frequency coupling than over-ear headphones. And the SPL levels are quite high, again an issue with most over-ear headphones.
            • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Friday November 29, 2019 @01:20AM (#59468360) Journal

              Obviously if I had a tone generator at 2 Khz, and I tuned it off and off at 1Hz, you'd notice the sound turning on and off once per second, right?

              You may have noticed if two instruments play the same note at the same time, but they aren't tuned exactly the, you get a wahwah effect. That happens when two sounds are close to the same frequency, but not quite the same frequency (within about 1.3:1 ratio).

              Hensel et al played tones at 1.6 Khz and 2.0Khz, within ratio to create that effect from hearing two sounds at once, due to the interaction between the two wave forms. The effect is that the 2Khz tone CHANGED 6 times per second. Just like if you turned the tone on and off once per second. Hearing a 2Khz tone change 6 times per second is not the same thing is hearing a 6Hz tone.

              Primary frequencies were fixed at f1 = 1.6 and f2 = 2.0 kHz with fixed levels L1 = 51 and L2 = 30 dB SPL. A new measure, the

              • Your auditory system responds - and your brain perceives - frequencies as low as 5-6 Hz. That's what you get. It is a "tone"? Probably not, but it is audible and sensed through the auditory system - and thus, it is a sound.
                • Every week at noon on Saturday, they test the local tornado siren. Once per week, so that's 0.0000017 Hz.

                  By your way of thinking, I'm hearing 0.0000017 Hz.
                  Most people would just say I hear the 3Khz sound once a week.

                  • Umm. No. A continuous tone of 4-5 Hz can be perceived through your auditory system. That's the point. It's what was found in the scientific paper I linked above. But feel free to ignore that and stick with your own incorrect beliefs.
  • Something very much like this was the subject of a Carl and Jerry story in Popular Electronics in the early 1960's. So, we are talking about something that has been at least suspected for about four decades. Still, since I live in "Dixie Alley" and have taken Tornado Spotter Training several times, I do know how useful that would be down here. In this area they are NOT like The Wizard of Oz elephant trunks. At night and rain wrapped watching for power line flashes as the lines go down is one of the bett
  • Thanks For it http://student-login.xyz/ [student-login.xyz]
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