Declaring State of Emergency, Samoa Makes Measles Vaccinations Compulsory (ibtimes.com) 89
"Samoa was finalising plans for a compulsory measles vaccination programme Monday, after declaring a state of emergency as a deadly epidemic sweeps the Pacific nation," reports the International Business Times:
At least six fatalities, including five children, have been linked to the outbreak of the virus, which has also hit other island states such as Tonga and Fiji. Samoa is the worst affected with more than 700 cases reported from across all areas of the country, prompting the government on Friday to invoke emergency powers.
Declaring a state of emergency, the government said plans for compulsory measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) immunisations would be published on Monday. "MMR vaccinations for members of the public who have not yet received a vaccination injection is now a mandatory legal requirement for all of Samoa," it said... Samoa has closed all schools, kindergartens and the country's only university in a bid to halt the virus' spread... Neighbouring Tonga last week announced government primary schools and kindergartens would be closed until later this month as the number of measles cases in the kingdom approaches 200.
Declaring a state of emergency, the government said plans for compulsory measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) immunisations would be published on Monday. "MMR vaccinations for members of the public who have not yet received a vaccination injection is now a mandatory legal requirement for all of Samoa," it said... Samoa has closed all schools, kindergartens and the country's only university in a bid to halt the virus' spread... Neighbouring Tonga last week announced government primary schools and kindergartens would be closed until later this month as the number of measles cases in the kingdom approaches 200.
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Fines or jail for antivax warriors.
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Jesus, nobody will die. The MMR vaccine has been used for decades in nations with hundreds of millions of people and the measurable 'death rate' is virtually non-existent. Or so low that it isn't statistically measurable. Samoa has what, under 200,000 total people. The death rate even assuming there's some statistical risk would be closer to zero people than one person. The number of lives saved will be dozens. Actually measurable, rather than some infinitesimal risk that's below the threshold of measurement.
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During the sentencing hearing, it was confirmed that one of the nurses mixed the MMR vaccine powder with expired muscle relaxant anaesthetic instead of water for injection supplied in a vial with the vaccine.
Except the deaths [immune.org.nz] were not because of the vaccine but because the nurses fucking mixed poison into the injection instead of water. So yeah, you can kill a person with a vaccine if you mix random shit in with it. But that's not a problem that exists only for vaccines. Pretty much if you take some random whatever off a shelf and inject it into your arm, good chance you're not going to do okay. Higher chances of death if you are just a few weeks old.
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Are you ready to be the one expended for the good of society?
Yes. I am have accepted, for both myself and my kids, the small risk of a bad vaccination in return for a much larger reduced risk of disease.
Are you ok with having no choice for that?
Yes. When your failure to vaccinate your child puts my kids at risk, then it is no longer your individual choice.
Your freedom to swing your arm ends at my nose.
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Is there any good reason why we shouldn't mod literally everything you post down as a troll given you're posting in bad faith, and posting anti-vax talking points, spreading an ideology that'll kill far more people than it claims to save?
It's up to you. I would rather save my sanity trying to explain my view on the things when you don't want to accept that there can a different point of view.
It's sad to see that threatening to downvote has become a norm instead of being open to a civilized discussion.
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Where are the stats on a fraction of a percentage point?
Here is an overview of the risks [nih.gov].
The biggest cause of death from the MMR vaccine is anaphylaxis, an allergic reaction.
The rate of MMR anaphylaxis is 2 per million, and few of these reactions are fatal. In the last 10 years, there were five deaths from anaphylaxis in America from ALL vaccines (not just MMR).
For comparison, the death rate from measles is about 200 per million.
Also, these numbers are not a given. Some countries are FAR better than others. My kids were vaccinated while I lived in Shanghai.
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Are you ready to be the one expended for the good of society? Are you ok with having no choice for that?
Like you choose to catch and die from a preventable disease?
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Are you okay with having no choice for catching an easily-prevented communicable disease?
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So has no one ever informed you that the percentage of people getting vaccinated who have a bad outcome is a couple orders of magnitude lower than the percentage of people who will have permanent problems (including death) after getting the disease? Well, now you know.
Measles kills, and when it doesn't it leaves people deaf, paralyzed, or immune-compromised. It can take literally decades for the immune system to recover from measles, which appears to reset the system's "memory" of what diseases it has encountered in the past. That effect alone should be enough to send you for a vaccination.
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You can still imagine why parents in Samoa are reluctant to get the inoculation. You can say "The vaccine was ok but the nurses fucked it up" but that does not inspire any more confidence than the other way around. The end result is still a dead baby.
I imagine their stay in the hospital once they've gotten the measles won't be any better, if there is a problem with the nurses.
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but that does not inspire any more confidence than the other way around. The end result is still a dead baby.
But that's fucking why people have investigations, why information is disseminated to the public, why fucking knowledge is better than ignorance. You're hitting low pillar here on this argument because it's the argument of ages here. Yeah, ignorance happens and people turning blind eyes or buying into ignorance is a thing. But the entire point of being an effing human being is learning, obtaining knowledge, and ensuring that the same shit doesn't happen. The end result is a dead baby, but the entire poi
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Ah yes, harken back to the days when fallible humans had to actually administer the vaccines. Back in the days when medical mistakes were somewhat common.
I, for one, am glad that those days are over.
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During the sentencing hearing, it was confirmed that one of the nurses mixed the MMR vaccine powder with expired muscle relaxant anaesthetic instead of water for injection supplied in a vial with the vaccine.
Except the deaths [immune.org.nz] were not because of the vaccine but because the nurses fucking mixed poison into the injection instead of water. So yeah, you can kill a person with a vaccine if you mix random shit in with it. But that's not a problem that exists only for vaccines. Pretty much if you take some random whatever off a shelf and inject it into your arm, good chance you're not going to do okay. Higher chances of death if you are just a few weeks old.
"..one of the nurses mixed the MMR vaccine powder with expired muscle relaxant anaesthetic instead of water...
Regardless of the vaccine accusation, I'm seriously struggling to understand exactly how the fuck this happened. A mixup between DI and distilled water is understandable, but this? On the surface, the effort needed to create this fuck-up smells like a premeditated act.
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You can’t measure two. It can’t be measured. Many have tried, and they have all failed. My god, man, won’t you let it go, it’s too low to measure!
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That would be a great argument if 2 babies weren't already dead in Samoa from bad inoculations.
What's the preventable disease body count on right now?
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In other news of your personal universe (Score:2)
nearly 3000 people died in on 9/11 from "working in an office building".
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According to the CDC, you can expect 5-15% of vaccinated people to develop of fever higher than 103.
1 in 30,000 get thrombocytopenia.
1 in 2,000,000 get anaphylaxis.
Of course, all of these are below the threshold of measurement.
If you, you know, use your fingers and toes to count.
Or an abacus, if you use an abacus, these rates are unmeasurable.
If only there were a way to count more things.
Eh, dare to dream.
When you’re right you’re right, nobody can measure this stuff.
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About 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 300,000 infected with measles contract panencephalitis with a good chance to die.
I like the odds of the vaccine better.
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Why not share some more recent news over that incident, where the cause was also found? Looks like the nurses mixed the vaccine powder with an expired anaesthetic [abc.net.au].
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Yeah, but they stopped using the MMR vaccine, and now they're up to *14 deaths* at latest count.
https://www1.racgp.org.au/news... [racgp.org.au]
Maybe those two babies died back in 2018, but there's been no evidence to say that the MMR vaccine actually caused that. It's not replicable. Plenty of other places use the MMR vaccine, without any such issues. They give millions of shots per year, and sometimes babies die, especially in third-world countries.
All that article proves is that "X happened" (received a shot) and then
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That's why you need better evidence than anecdotes. Sometimes people die by being run over by a bus. Sometimes people buy lottery tickets. Sometimes, people are killed by a bus *right after* buying a lottery ticket. But to prove that buying lottery tickets causes you to be run over by a bus requires better evidence. Similarly, sure, sometimes medication is given, and someone dies afterwards. But someones people die without medication being given. An isolated anecdote isn't convincing evidence. Sometimes two
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And of course, the evidence was that the staff at the particular hospital fucked up, and it wasn't the vaccine.
https://samoaglobalnews.com/no... [samoaglobalnews.com]
It wasn't the vaccine which caused it. But the fear created caused people to not vaccinate, and now at least 14 children are dead and counting.
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People are dying right now, because of the measles outbreak. Children, in fact.
The world is an imperfect place, and vaccinations are an imperfect solution. There were some deaths due to incorrectly administered vaccinations. That is tragic and it does happen. But that does not give us license to generalize that vaccinations are a bad solution to the problem, overall.
If we do not take steps to control these diseases, we get ravaged by them. And vaccinations are the best tool we have, with an overall excellent success rate at stomping out viruses like this.
But of course the real issue here is individual freedom vs greater good. What does one do when the needs of the many compel the one to accept a vaccination which one does not want? A moral case can be made for either position. What really tips the balance here is:
1) When people don't vaccinate, a terrible disease spreads causing suffering and death. So this is a major need, not some minor preference.
2) The majority of reasons why people don't want to vaccinate are firmly rooted in ignorance and superstition.
and, for what it's worth...
3) Accommodations are made for people who are known to have medical conditions that present a high risk of complications from the vaccine. If enough other people get vaccinated, they effectively protect those who cannot.
For all these reasons, I think Samoa is doing the right thing. We are all at risk of infection and people who refuse to vaccinate don't just harm themselves, they put everyone around them at risk. That is just too much of a threat to allow superstition to stand in the way of defending ourselves against these diseases.
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>3) Accommodations are made for people who are known to have medical >conditions that present a high risk of complications from the vaccine. If enough >other people get vaccinated, they effectively protect those who cannot.
My gosh, people can have high risks of complications? How?
And where is your ire for big pharma for fomenting distrust by demanding the law be written to shield them from liability for complications?
We accept human sacrifice for the betterment of society, but we have ironclad pr
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If we don't know EXACTLY WHY they died, then they aren't safe, period.
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More people ARE dying because they are not vaccinated.
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When you are determining if a particular medical procedure is "worth it," you compare it to the result of the status quo
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I love it how there's always a "major new study" that has just come out to "prove" that these cooks were right all along. When someone finally decides to take out the time to read that "major new study" it turns out it was a couple more cooks in a basement with a gas stove and a magnifying glass.
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Forced-vax Nazis sure do fantasize about using the iron boot to suppress freedom is speech.
And you just know... (Score:2, Funny)
It was some white American anti-vaxxer who brought it there.
Probably named Karen.
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Mooooooooooo!
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Looks like we found another one, boys.
You know who else likes to think?
Huh?
You know who else likes to do their own thinkin?
Witches, that’s who!!!!
Re: And you just know... (Score:1)
Re: And you just know... (Score:5, Informative)
I contracted polio from the then-current polio vaccine. The one I had was the sugar-cube variant, which is no longer used today. This was in the early 70s while I was a baby. It's a known possible side effect of that style of vaccine, with the World Health Organisation putting the chances at 1 in every 2.7 million doses.
I'm lucky - I had a full recovery with no ill-effects. I'm now a parent, three kids, and all of them are fully vaccinated. The statistics are clearly on the side of the vaccinations however, and the success of them speaks for itself. This was an easy intellectual decision for me, but it was not an easy thing for me to deal with subconsciously. I definitely had underlying worry leading up to and during the procedure, and there's simply no way round that - I'm human, and I relate things to my own experiences.
The reason for this post is that I see too many people saying that everything is perfect. "None of them died"...yeah, they did. Just vastly, vastly fewer than those who died from polio previously. The trouble with taking an absolute point of view is that it's then easier for the anti-vax side to pick at it and 'disprove' you. Stats is a dry subject - it's much easier to point to individual cases along the lines of "look! they tell you that nobody died, but tell that to baby x's mum who lost her beautiful child at 1 year". See - heartstring-tugging is easy. Don't give them the chance. Be understanding that vaccines are a game of statistics and not of perfection. That way you can avoid pitfalls like the above, and hopefully lead people to more rational choices.
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It was some white American anti-vaxxer who brought it there.
Probably named Karen.
Nah, they all live in trailer parks. Not the sort to be traveling to Samoa.
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Forced-vax Nazis sure do have smug contempt for the working class.
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I bet she was a witch! Come on, let’s see if she floats!
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Flu Epidemic (Score:1)
They tell us to get the Flu vaccine every year and then also say it's for a different strain than the one that people are catching. CDC.gov says an estimated 79,000 people died between 2017 - 2018 from the flu. This is more of an epidemic than the MMR.
MMR really isn't an epidemic.
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MMR really isn't an epidemic.
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Because of vaccinations or because of people who got the illnesses naturally and got over it with lifetime immunity? Now that we are seeing the older generation die off who didn't get vaccinations as children I'm wondering if we'll see an uptick of MMR because the vaccines might not be as effective as we have been told.
I'm not saying vaccines don't entirely work but my concern with the safety of the vaccines because long term studies of most vaccines aren't being done. Do we know if a vaccine is causing a
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If that uptick is caused by the older generation that didn't get vaccinated but was actually sick, I wonder what explanation you have for this [wikipedia.org] graph.
Because if vaccinations don't work, I guess it means that around 1964 suddenly the whole country started taking their vitamins.
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We really don't know because long term studies aren't being done.
They do studies.
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It is an epidemic, just not everywhere. With the additional difference that the MMR vaccine is way more effective than the flu vaccine.
"antivax" ragers are an insane cult (Score:1)
You can't fucking make people take injections, THE END. People get to make all their own decisions of how to live their lives.
You're asserting they're CATTLE, not PEOPLE, when you try to force them to take something they don't want, by fines or by shaming or by whatever other means.
This is not some external thing you're forcing them to change, this is their body, the only thing they're guaranteed of their own for as long as they live, and all of your idiotic arguments about 'the greater good' are incongruen
serious question (Score:1)
What the hell would you care if people are unvaccinated? If you and yours are vaccinated, then you're immune anyway, everything is good on your end, mind your own fucking business and let natural selection be the judge.
Unless you're a brainwashed totalitarian drone with zero self awareness, then by all means, continue your crusade to set a precedent for government-enforced medication, natural selection will have its say in the end anyway.
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unless you want to admit vaccines are not even fucking effective to begin with
I wonder how often unvaccinated people have been crucified for spreading disease that was actually originated by some one who had the vaccine and selected for a particularly malicious strain of virus
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"antivax" (Score:1)
The fact that this was made into a special term especially for shaming makes the motives behind 'anti-anti-vaxxers' transparent - it's not about reason or justice, it's about winning an arbitrary battle and conforming to the herd according to the will of the herdsman.
Deadly epidemic sweeps the Samoa? (Score:1)
As compared to the casualties caused by the vaccines:
Ministry of Health statement on the investigation into MMR vaccine safety in Samoa [health.govt.nz]
MMR vaccine side effects [www.nhs.uk]: “ 1 in 50 children develop a mild form of mumps ”