'Alarming' Loss of Insects and Spiders Recorded (bbc.com) 167
Insects and spiders are declining in forests and grasslands across Germany, according to new research. From a report: Scientists have described the findings as "alarming," saying the losses are driven by intensive agriculture. They are calling for a "paradigm shift" in land-use policy to preserve habitat for the likes of butterflies, bugs and flying insects. Recent studies have reported widespread declines in insect populations around the world. The latest analysis, published in the journal, Nature, confirms that some insect species are being pushed down the path to extinction. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the drivers of insect decline are related to farming practices, said Dr Sebastian Seibold of the Technical University of Munich in Freising, Germany. "Our study confirms that insect decline is real - it might be even more widespread then previously thought considering, for example, that also forests are experiencing declines in insect populations," he told BBC News. "I think it's alarming to see that such a decline happens not only in intensively-managed areas but also in protected areas -- so the sites that we think are safeguarding our biodiversity are not really working anymore."
Woohoo (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Woohoo (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, there are downstream effects, literally
In Japan a long term study has identified that neonicitinoids used on rice farms had flowed into the local lake, killed off most of the zooplankton and starving the fish, resulting in fishing yields dropping from 240 Tons a year to 22 Tons [phys.org]
I mean, it's good to reduce negative impacts of insects on humans, but not if it results in us all starving
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Fuck spiders. They are fucking creepy as fuck.
Only idiots find this issue funny.
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We're all going to die. Humor is a pretty solid coping mechanism.
Doing something to solve the problem is a preferable solution.
That would require voting (Score:2)
And all _that_ would mean electing the sort of people to lead us that kind of talk down to us, because people who are smart enough to be experts or seek the advice of experts usually can't help but talk down to the sort of person wh
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In the end you are fucking yourself, congratulations on your small minded stupidity.
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I did not know that fucking is creepy ... but good to know, so I'm a creepy guy?
Where did the bees go? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had an alarming loss of bee's over the years. I don't see them on my fruit trees as often. I don't see them in my garden as often. My fruit production has gone down over the years significantly.
I'm told that its not a problem, that I should buy myself a beehive. I don't ever remember a time having a bee hive was required as there used to be plenty of bees.
If we don't balance ourselves out quickly, mother nature is going to do it all by herself.
--
If you can't be in awe of Mother Nature, there's something wrong with you. - Alex Trebek
Re:Where did the bees go? (Score:5, Interesting)
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There are also entire populations of wild bees, which have been wiped out either due to habitat loss (think widespread roundup use on 'weeds') or killed by overzealous use of pesticides
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Who are you replying to SuperKendall?
What part of the term "wild bees" opens any door for discussion of domesticated honey bees, or even feral honey bees?
You mention two examples of 'other' pollinators, but my point is that they are declining as well
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He/she knows they're native bees because they are completely different species and therefore don't look like a honey bee.
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I've had an alarming loss of bee's over the years. I don't see them on my fruit trees as often. I don't see them in my garden as often. My fruit production has gone down over the years significantly.
I'm told that its not a problem, that I should buy myself a beehive. I don't ever remember a time having a bee hive was required as there used to be plenty of bees.
If we don't balance ourselves out quickly, mother nature is going to do it all by herself.
--
If you can't be in awe of Mother Nature, there's something wrong with you. - Alex Trebek
I've noticed during the summer the last few years that lightning bugs are much less common than they were growing up, and that was only about 2 decades ago. It just doesn't feel quite like a summer night without fireflies going off all over the place.
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Pesticides killed them. It turns out that spreading chemicals around in order to kill insects, kills insects. I mean, who woulda thought it? I would have thought the chemical would have said "hey, wait, this is a bee, I won't kill it". Turns out chemicals aren't like computers.
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Part of the problem here is also that wildflower populations are down because everyone thinks that all fields, sides of roads and everything needs to be mowed. Cut field mowing and stop mowing road embankments and soon you would have wildflowers sprouting up and higher bee populations, plus you would generate less CO2 from useless mowing.
Many cities even force people to mow and will not allow people to have wildflowers in their yards. Less mowing, more bees.
Another factor on top of this is this idea that ev
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The latter is definitely not a problem in Germany. No such thing as home owner associations here - the closest equivalent is the apartment owner association of a single building. This makes houses and gardens usually quite varied.
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biocidal agriculture is unsustainable (Score:5, Interesting)
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Glyphosate doesn't kill insects.
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Glyphosphate wipes out numerous non-food plants that are necessary for pollinators
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Put away that DDT now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone
They paved paradise
Put up a parking lot"
Sorry... (Score:3)
My cats may be responsible for much of the spider loss. At least in my house.
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Your cat eats spiders? Mine is more like a personal trainer to the spiders she finds in the house. I'm sure it looks scary to the spiders, but nothing bad happens to them other than a quick jog.
Instead of ... (Score:2)
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Your food yield would probably drop many orders of magnitude.
Just to make sure you understand an order of magnitude is a factor of 10. If a couple is 2 and a few is 3-5 many must be at least 5 and could easily mean much more. So you're saying that food yield would be reduced to at most 0.001% (or less if many means >5) of current production. I get that hyperbole is trendy these days but less precision of language isn't helpful so why add to that?
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>The organic food at the store costs more but would probably be less if such methods weren't 'special'.
Organic food can only exist as a supplement for the affluent next to cheap food for the poor. Organic food uses more land and less effective pesticides meaning food per acre would go down and costs would be going up.
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Call for it all you want (Score:3)
Unless you solve structural problems that lead to slash and burn farming (poverty, regime change wars, etc) and the underlining causes then this is just pissing in the wind.
not to worry (Score:5, Funny)
They all seem to have migrated into my house
I'm (not) Outraged! (Score:3)
They're in my basement (Score:5, Funny)
I live in a rural American Foursquare house, built in 1907.
I'm pretty sure you could repopulate any number of the worlds' spider species with the numbers and variety in my basement (cellar). We've identified two MAIN populations in the house: the living area spiders who are darker, quicker, and smaller across both hunting and orb-weaving spiders. The basement orb weavers are much bigger, territorial, and translucent. They DGAF about humans and are pretty much just busy waging constant wars against each other and the also-sizable centipede population.
Occasionally we'll get the sense that there's been some resolution to the politics of our basement arachnids, for a short time we'll see a wave of the 'basement style' spiders crop up, mostly in a radius around the basement door (refugees, we believe) but their insouciance about humans and other spiders costs them where they don't have dominance.
Just saying. Feel free to come and negotiate with the mother spiders down there about maybe taking some of their overflow. We'd be fine with that...as long as she is.
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Really? (Score:2)
Wind and Solar Power to blame (Score:2)
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Citation needed.
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If you eat ice cream, you're more likely to be attacked by a shark [kdnuggets.com]
this is huge (Score:3)
This is due to software developers! (Score:2)
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What a load of crap, just keep covering your ears, closing your eyes and saying "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
Re:Alarming (Score:5, Insightful)
Too bad you sounded the alarm a hundred times a day for 30 years.
Too bad you turned agriculture into an industry based on chemical warfare.
Re:Alarming (Score:5, Insightful)
This ^^^ a hundred times
The entire fertilizer industry is an off-shoot of technologies developed for generating chemicals needed for explosives, and the entire pesticide industry is an offshoot of the chemical warfare products that were banned after WW1
When Eisenhower said, "Beware the military industrial complex, this was certainly part of it.
It is hard to claim that this is, in any way, new information since 'Silent Spring" came out almost 50 years ago
But, kohath is tired of hearing about it, so maybe they can volunteer to stop eating
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I just saw a report on youtube yesterday about the rubber-industry (you know, for our car-tires).
Outside EU and US, they still use pesticides banned here since the 60s!
And of course, they are displacing indigenous people from their land, leaving them with nothing.
It's insane and heart-breaking.
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I am dumbfounded by this comment. It is peak chemophobia coupled with paranoia and conspiracy theory thinking.
You know why "chemical" fertilizers are used? They work. Plants extract chemicals from the soil. If that is not addressed the soil can be left infertile.
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Oh lookee, its our favorite industry cuck and fundie proselytizer (since you already started with name calling, you get elbows back at you)
Sure, but recycling agricultural waste as fertilizer, using fallow cycles and intercropping with nitrogen fixing plants work as well, AND they have the added benefit of NOT KILLING THE POLLINATORS, which is the entire point of the discussion
But, you have bills to pay, and you even seem to think that you astro-turfing skill are 1337 enough to win over /.
Think again
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Next thing you know you'll tell me that Dihydrogen monoxide is healthy. I see past your government shilling.
> recycling agricultural waste as fertilizer, using fallow cycles and intercropping with nitrogen fixing plants work as well
What's the cost? Sounds great but like most things in agriculture it's a bit harder to keep things inexpensive. For example, biodiversity farming is great for native pollinators but is really hard to compete against a monoculture field of 1 plant.
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LOL, water?
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Dangerous stuff [dhmo.org].
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You do realize that is a parody and has nothing to do with legitimate concerns regarding pesticides...
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Good heck you are dense. Yes. It is obviously a parody making fun of chemophobia. It uses a lot of the same logical arguments made by chemophobes. That you used.
The entire fertilizer industry is an off-shoot of technologies developed for generating chemicals needed for explosives, and the entire pesticide industry is an offshoot of the chemical warfare products that were banned after WW1
When Eisenhower said, "Beware the military industrial complex, this was certainly part of it.
Critics of government often cite the fact that many politicians and others in public office do not consider Dihydrogen Monoxide to be a "politically beneficial" cause to get behind, and so the public suffers from a lack of reliable information on just what DHMO is and why they should be concerned. "
"Despite the known dangers of DHMO, it continues to be used daily by industry, government, and even in private homes across the U.S. and worldwide. Some of the well-known uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide are: as an industrial solvent and coolant,
in nuclear power plants, in biological and chemical weapons manufacture, as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
> legitimate concerns regarding pesticides...
Irrational chemophobia is not the way to address legitimate concerns of pesticides. It makes you sound like an anti-vaxxer. Ignorant insanity using FUD and conspiratorial thinking.
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Sure, go drink a glass of acetamiprid, and if you survive, tell me how it is "just like water"
Ya know, when you devolve everything into rhetoric, you lose grounding in reality, and that will kill you just like mistaking insecticide for water will
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You are obviously paid off by the Friends of Hydrogen Hydroxide.
> devolve everything into rhetoric, you lose grounding in reality,
Acting like an anti-vaxxer is not a good way to present reality and more often than not misrepresents it.
> that will kill you just like mistaking insecticide for water will
I don't think you understand the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. Too much ingestion and small amounts of inhalation will kill you!!!
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In a country like the US, where everything needs to be as cheap as possible.
Countries like Germany, France or Thailand don't have such monoculture.
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"Ending world hunger" such a terrible aspiration. Should have just let people starve to death and the poor be malnourished.
Environmentalists are the reason I don't like environmental protection. Ya'll sound insane. I like environmental protection but I do not like being associated with crazy people.
"Chemical warfare" ensures that an acre of land is optimally producing food. The more food a single acre produces the less acres we need. Less acres used means more acres for wildlife. Habitat loss kills more spe
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"Ending world hunger" such a terrible aspiration. Should have just let people starve to death and the poor be malnourished.
Environmentalists are the reason I don't like environmental protection. Ya'll sound insane. I like environmental protection but I do not like being associated with crazy people.
"Chemical warfare" ensures that an acre of land is optimally producing food. The more food a single acre produces the less acres we need. Less acres used means more acres for wildlife. Habitat loss kills more species than global warming. Lay off the sanctimonious preaching.
Learning optimal "chemical warfare" coupled with responsible usage takes time and science. It also requires ending the pseudo-science that is pushing "organic" fads for food. As those require pesticides that are not as safe or effective and more land.
Just curious, Do you eat organic food while preaching about 'chemical warfare"?
Your wilful ignorance is why I don't like people like you. It takes a lot of doing to cause an extinction event that affects insects. Insects are one of the most important and resilient part of the earth's biosphere. Not only is their loss very, very, very important because they are a fundamental food source for all kinds of higher life forms, they are also pollinators and predatory insects, arachnids, etc. are highly important sources of natural pest control. Now you can sit there and hate environmentalist
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> It takes a lot of doing to cause an extinction event that affects insects
No shit. The largest causes is pesticides and habitat loss. See that solar/wind farm outside your city? Guess what is not there; habitat for local pollinators. See the expanding housing outside your city? Guess what is not there; habitat for local pollinators. See those miles of farms. That's used to feed the city you live in and benefiting both the farm and local species is difficult. If you can somehow turn a mono-cultured indus
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Neither a wind farm nor a solar farm has any influence on local pollinators, why would they?
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Every wind farm I've ever seen has had wind turbines with a small footprint amidst a crop or native vegetation. Are wind farms different where you live?
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Every wind farm I've seen (and I see a lot here in the midwest) has been located on active farmland. So, yeah, not great habitat for local pollinators, but not because of the wind turbines, rather because of the farming that was already there.
And most solar panels I've seen have been on roofs, which already don't provide habitat for local pollinators. The only large solar farm I've been involved with was b
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> It takes a lot of doing to cause an extinction event that affects insects
No shit. The largest causes is pesticides and habitat loss.
Which goes to my point.
See that solar/wind farm outside your city? Guess what is not there; habitat for local pollinators. See the expanding housing outside your city? Guess what is not there; habitat for local pollinators. See those miles of farms. That's used to feed the city you live in and benefiting both the farm and local species is difficult. If you can somehow turn a mono-cultured industrial farm into a diverse ecosystem and still maintain the same productivity that feeds the same number of people, you'll be a very rich and popular person.
Really? solar panels and wind farms are causing insect extinction. That has to be just about the most asinine argument against solar and wind power that I have ever heard. As for the rest of your list, except for deliberate habitat destruction by farmers and other habitat disruptors, pesticides are still one of the major causes of insect extinction.
> work is destroying the basis for it's own existence
Harping about 'chemical warefare' does nothing. It only highlights your hyperbolic ignorance in food production and associated issues.
If you'll notice I said: "Learning optimal "chemical warfare" coupled with responsible usage takes time and science". I didn't say spray till everything is dead. Mongoloid.
Actually I'm a Caucasian, and your half assed attempt at insulting me has not changed the fact that gratuitous over use of pesticides is a
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>Pesticides are a huge problem,
You can quote where I said they were not a problem.
>is pesticides and their over use and the fact that a lot of of them are no-degrading.... reading a study
Yes, science takes time and we are learning more about pesticides we have switched to from previous pesticides. That doesn't mean we act with knee jerk reactions. Pesticides kill insects and you are surprised that they are effective at killing insects? Acting hysterical doesn't help anyone or anything and it certainly
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>Pesticides are a huge problem,
You can quote where I said they were not a problem.
For one thing you call them a mere problem and think solar panels and wind turbines are a bigger problem than pesticides. My contention is that pesticides are the single biggest threat to insect population ... period. It's more of disagreement about the magnitude of the problem they constitute, not a binary choice between them being a problem or not.
>is pesticides and their over use and the fact that a lot of of them are no-degrading.... reading a study
Yes, science takes time and we are learning more about pesticides we have switched to from previous pesticides. That doesn't mean we act with knee jerk reactions. Pesticides kill insects and you are surprised that they are effective at killing insects? Acting hysterical doesn't help anyone or anything and it certainly doesn't help the insects your trying to save.
No, you seem to have no problem with eradicating all insects, which is verifiably what is happening, I do not consider a mass extinction of insect populations a
Industrialized agriculture gives us enough food (Score:2)
That said, there is _plenty_ of room for improvement. Less money should be spent researching how to blow up kids in Yemen and more on how to safely grow enough food.
If you want that then you need to make your wants known in two places.
First, at the polls, and you _must_ show up to primary elections. If yo
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> We shouldn't be too quick to dismiss that
I don't usually agree with you but here is an exception. Spot on.
Cheers.
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Too bad you sounded the alarm a hundred times a day for 30 years.
Why did you go deaf? It would have been easier to simply act when the first alarm went off.
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If we weren't so many people on this planet it wouldn't have been an issue.
Let's assume I agree with you. If overpopulation is a problem then should not nations with stable or shrinking populations, which largely coincides with the nations with the largest emissions of air pollution and global warming inducing CO2, close their borders to immigration? These nations can't reduce the global human population if all this does is encourage growth in other nations because if things get bad there then they can just leave for somewhere else.
Another thing that this current mass movement o
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No, we need control over population, which is best managed by providing free birth control
Unfortunately, the US continues to send proselytizing religious groups to underdeveloped countries who REFUSE to promote birth control, and in the past these organizations lobbied to keep the US from sending condoms to countries fighting HIV/AIDS
Because invisible sky god wants them to spread across the planet
Well, there's your problem right there
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No, we need control over population, which is best managed by providing free birth control
We can do more than one thing at a time, and (as I pointed out) immigration control is a means of controlling population growth .
We can control population growth in the US by keeping immigration in check while also providing birth control around the world. At a minimum it keeps the population growth under control in nations that have been successful by use of birth control and other tools in controlling population growth.
Unfortunately, the US continues to send proselytizing religious groups to underdeveloped countries who REFUSE to promote birth control, and in the past these organizations lobbied to keep the US from sending condoms to countries fighting HIV/AIDS
Because invisible sky god wants them to spread across the planet
Well, there's your problem right there
Which tells me that we can't control global population growth without also controlling
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When you say
>>there is no such thing as "free birth control" except abstaining from the action that produces children.
You are being disingenuous and just dancing around the issue, much less jumping on the promote abstinence train, and realizing that US donations to developing countries could more than pay for birth control, which in turn would reduce stress for resources (and resulting conflicts)
Relying on failed methods is one of the first signs of indoctrination
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Relying on failed methods is one of the first signs of indoctrination
I see you totally missed the point.
My point is that we can't produce something from nothing, and that includes condoms. Condoms are not free. Birth control pills are not free. Clinics for sterilizations are not free. People might volunteer for providing care but this is only "free" in the sense that they are donating their time and drawing from a store of wealth they hold themselves or from donations that others draw from their store of wealth. These people will still need money for things like the foo
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When you have no argument to come back with, this is what one resorts to.. you wouldn't even read his reply, which maintained an even tone after your snarkiness, and then you attack with an ad hominem.
Credibility = zero.
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Sure, in the up is down world
AFAIAK, you are just another sock puppet trying to make blindseer's flopping look credible
The basic argument is "close the borders and leave them to their own ends", which wholly ignores the roles that Americans (religious groups that received government funding in particular) have played in limiting options for population control and sustainable governments for the countries that the people are coming from.
Of course, you are either a sock puppet or stupid because 'just talking
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The basic argument is "close the borders and leave them to their own ends",
Is that what I wrote? I'm quite certain I called for helping people in other nations to control their population growth. In fact I anticipated my post being misinterpreted. I actually predicted as such. This is what I wrote, in part...
Maybe we should stop relying on failed methods and stop pouring money into these places that can't be bothered to use a condom or to keep their pants on. I'm not advocating for that, but I'm sure someone will accuse me of doing so. If we are to control population growth all over the world then this needs to come with controls domestically as well as exporting them.
I'll get back to the rest of your point...
which wholly ignores the roles that Americans (religious groups that received government funding in particular) have played in limiting options for population control and sustainable governments for the countries that the people are coming from.
America does no such thing. These other nations are free to enact whatever birth control methods they choose. They are not free to export their population problem to the USA. We are under no obligation to take these people in be
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I just had a comment that can be paraphrased as "nothing is free but keeping your pants on" turned into advocacy for abstinence only birth control. Because of that I thought it fitting to be as clear as possible in my reply. It seems that with this crowd anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders must also be to the right of Billy Graham.
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Ironically almost all the worlds population growth comes from third world countries where they cant feed the ones they already have. In most first world countries people have too few children to maintain the economy because you have to have a certain amount of population growth for businesses to pay back the loans they have taken out and for economies to grow. Christian groups go to third world countries to evangelize while the religions are dying off inside the US, and while the US has a monumental crisis
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I don't think its that simple. Yes, better access to birth control helps. But you can't just hand that stuff out in an undeveloped country and expect it to work. Women's rights is a natural side effect of a developed and modern society. You can't force the end result without building the foundation. Your solution also overlooks causes of high birthrate that aren't necessarily linked to women's rights at all. In under developed societies healthcare is rare (makes distributing pills hard btw) and infant morta
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Don't forget that there's a strong belief that the world will end in a very specific way, vaguely described in Revelations but many groups treat it literally. Also there won't be a massive deluge because of some scripture in the Old Testament. And the apocalypse is coming any day now (and "any day now" has been the date for the last two thousand years).
This means these groups will instinctively reject the idea of climate change, any any other doom and gloom scenario that doesn't fit their religious beliefs
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FYI, all that Revelations and Hell stuff was tacked on later to scare the gullible into obedience [medium.com]
Revelation was the last book accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and to the present day some churches that derive from the Church of the East reject it. Eastern Christians became skeptical of the book as doubts concerning its authorship and unusual style were reinforced by aversion to its acceptance by Montanists and other groups considered to be heretical. This distrust of the Book of Revelation persist [wikipedia.org]
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You wrote: ...should not nations with stable or shrinking populations, which largely coincides with the nations with the largest emissions of air pollution and global warming inducing CO2, close their borders to immigration?
So, are you being paid to write stupid "social media" posts, or are you just stupid?
China's population is still growing, though at a slower pace. Ditto the US. Now, if you want to talk about shrinking populations... Scotland's been encouraging immigration for years, and I don't think the
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Maybe if all those who so vocally shout about Climate Change actually did something personally about it... Because as it turns out [sciencedirect.com], the most vocal proponents are the ones who do the least, personally; and the skeptics (you know, those evil "deniers") actually do the most to improve the environment.
Additionally, given the fact that as GDP per capita increases, population growth decreases [repec.org], the best way to address overpopulation is to support increasing economies - growing the GDP of 2nd/3rd world nations. G
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Thanks for mischaracterizing the Hall et al paper. The authors of the paper didn't bother to measure the actual number of "individual-level pro-environmental behaviors," the one thing that would have made it a useful paper. Instead it relied on self-reporting. It's quite likely that many of the "Highly Concerned” have so internalized behaviors they do all the time that help the environment that they stopped consciously recognizing those behaviors as pro-environmental. Meanwhile the pigs in the
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I was with you until that part.
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The human population once was only a few hundred thousand, albeit long before the neolithic began. Interestingly, there's evidence to suggests humans nearly went extinct 70000 years ago when the population collapsed to just 1000-10000 people.
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I love how the people that complain about over population never offer themselves to help resolve this issue.
I volunteer myself! ...... eventually, that is....
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First, I would love to see members of the Climate Changeianity religion who incessantly and blindly complain about petroleum based industrialization, but never give up all the comforts and products of modern society, most of which are derived directly and indirectly from oil.
There's lots of cheap federal land whole gaggles of them can purchase and like the Amish, but with solar panels.
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And this folks, is how you attempt to shame people and gaslight them into silence, while you remove the very underpinnings of their existence...
Let me be the first to invite eepok to go eff themselves
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