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Education Science

California's New Law Bans Schools From Starting Before 8am (qz.com) 203

California governor Gavin Newsom signed a new law on Sunday preventing schools in the state from starting classes before 8am. Quartz reports: The law bars middle schools from starting before 8am, while high schools must wait till 8:30am to begin classes. This means that about half of California schools will need to delay their opening bell by 30 minutes or less, according to a legislative analysis (pdf), while one-quarter will need to wait an additional 31 to 60 minutes to get going. Schools have until July 1, 2022 to comply with the rule, or whenever their three-year collective bargaining agreements with employees expire -- whichever comes later. Some rural schools are exempt from the law, and the new start times do not apply to optional "zero period" classes.

The move makes California the first U.S. state to heed the call of health advocates who argue that early school start times are forcing adolescents to operate in a state of perpetual sleep deprivation. The American Academy of Pediatrics, which backed the bill, said in 2014 policy statement that getting too little sleep puts teenagers' physical and mental health at risk, as well as their academic performance. The organization cited research that shows that biological changes in puberty make it difficult for the average teenager to fall asleep before 11pm, and that teenagers need between 8.5 and 9.5 hours of sleep to function at their best. It recommended that schools adjust their schedules rather than compel students to go against their natural sleep rhythms.

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California's New Law Bans Schools From Starting Before 8am

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  • 8am is still early (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:17AM (#59313078)

    My son's high school starts at 8:50 Mon-Thursday, and 9:20 Friday (as a trial due to the same research as above).

    At 8am, we're lucky if he has made it out of bed.

    • by pedz ( 4127433 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:25AM (#59313090)
      I don't think its the school's fault. In a year, it will be 9 a.m. before he starts to get up.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      Your kid is a slacker.
      I had to be at the bus stop by 6:50am as classes started at 7:35am. Piscataway had forced integration which meant they bused all the kids to race balance the classes. Start times were staggered so they had enough buses. High school started first and got out first. It sucked but I got used to it.
      School was done at 2:15 which gave me enough time to get home, change clothes, do chores, then be at work by 4pm.

      Work your kid harder after school. They'll be tired and go to sleep at a rea

      • by Xenx ( 2211586 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:56AM (#59313144)
        Yes, lets force those kids to go against their biology for no good reason. The circadian rhythm changes for teens after puberty, pushing back their natural sleep times to from 8-9pm to 10-11pm. Optimally they need 9.5hrs of sleep. That means the average teen should ideally wake up around 7:30-8:30am. Without a legitimate reason otherwise, we would be arbitrarily forcing these kids to screw up their sleep if we don't adjust the start times around their needs.

        And just to squash it before it comes up, "It'll teach them to be adults" is not a legitimate reason. It's complete bullshit.
        • by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:27AM (#59314024) Homepage
          In high school I took an honors chem class that started at 7am on t/th so we could have a 2 hour lab. Ironically, I had less trouble getting up for that class (and also m/w/f for the normal 8am start) than almost any other year. Probably because I wanted to go. And I am someone who really really really likes to sleep in. I think the underlying problem is we as a society view school as a chore, so who wants to go? You could start it at 3PM and people would find something to complain about. We need to find a way to make being nerdish more like being a football star. I'd also point out that the chem class had almost 100% attendance, because it was tough to get into and if you got into, you wanted to be there.
      • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:51AM (#59313262)

        Why is someone a slacker because he wants to be at work when he can actually do some work?

        You know who the real slackers are? The ones that come to work at 6am, completely still sleeping, have to pump 3 coffees into their system to be at least responsive when someone hits them in the face, then go home at 3am so they can "enjoy the day" after working maybe 4 hours effectively.

        • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:51AM (#59313264)

          at 3pm.

          Didn't have my coffee yet, can you tell?

        • The ones that come to work at 6am, completely still sleeping,

          Then perhaps they shouldn't have taken the job which requires them to be in the office at 6 AM.

          Or is that too much like personal responsibility?
          • They're not required to be here at 6am. That's the whole point. They're here at 6am, practically asleep at the desk, because that way they can get "work" hours while being practically spaced out and not fully aware that they're at their job. It's a bit like sleeping through the in-laws showing the photos of their vacation, time you can sleep away something pesky so you're refreshed for the things you enjoy doing.

            • Why does the time of day matter in this type of behavioral issue? If they did the same thing starting at 8 or 9 it would be the same problem. They just happen to "get away with it" because they are not being managed effectively either by themselves or a supervisor.
              • They happen to get away with it because of the idea that whoever is at work early is a good worker. I have no idea where that fallacy comes from, but it is quite hard to eradicate.

            • Depends, for a while I was getting to work at 6am when I was at a startup. Main reason was no one else was there and I could code undisturbed for a couple hours. By 9am, I was getting door knocks every 15 minutes.
              • If they were productive at 6am, I would have zero problem with it. My problem is that people get to work at 6am, are unproductive until like 9 because they are basically shambling about like half asleep zombies but are considered a shining example of productivity because they're here early.

                I don't care when you show up, as far as I'm concerned you can arrive at 3pm, if that's when you're productive, great. But you better be it 'til midnight because I do want to get 9 productive hours out of you. I don't car

        • Ha. I'm not a boss, which is good, because I would fret over those who show up here at 0630, log in, and then trundle down to the caf to get breakfast, chit chat, catch up on the stock market open, and finally log back in to check their auction results. Ugh.

          Me? I'm much more efficient in wasting time. Vipers.

      • You forgot to humblebrag about how you walked to school uphills both ways in blizzard conditions with rabid wolves nipping at your heels while eating lead paint chips to help your immune system fight off the smallpox virus.

        • Ooooo.

          I more than once was walking the 1.5 miles to high school, in winter, through the snow, when a car pulled up, door opened, and my vice-principal shouted 'get in, school is cancelled'. Duh. I left too early to get the report, and it wasn't always obvious the weather was bad enough. Usually it was the cold, not the snow.

          Twice I got there to be met at the door with a taped-up note... Double duh.

          Those were the days when a snowflake melted away. I miss that.

        • by Hodr ( 219920 )

          I went to school in California in the 80s. My high school started at 630am (530 if you had zero period).

          The stated reason was that we lived in an area where temperatures were regularly over 100 degrees during the day. Most of the school didn't have air conditioning (I think only the newer temporary buildings) and they wanted to get the kids in early enough to do PE before it was so hot everyone stroked out. Additionally the school ended at 2pm so you could get home before the hottest part of the day.

          But I

  • by Kryptonian Jor-El ( 970056 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:22AM (#59313084)
    Teens will just stay up later
    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:43AM (#59313122)

      Teens will just stay up later

      Research shows that they stay up later anyway.

      Early start times mean they just end up getting less sleep, which has detrimental effects on brain development.

      Early start times also means early release times, which means more unsupervised time before their parents get home from work. This is when most teen pregnancies happen.

      • Bed time, phones on my dresser, no video games, read a book to get to sleep.

      • Is the purpose of the law to benefit the students? Shouldn't compliance be universal rather than tied to the expiration of union contracts? If this was truly about the students then the law should go into force for the 2020-2021 school year and not be deferred until potentially the 2023-2024 school year. If later school start times correspond with better outcomes why is the state permitting some students to be permitted worse outcomes?

        • I would guess it is tied to union contracts as an ancillary challenge of staffing issues for the time changes.
      • So there won't be any more after school specials?
      • I think the OP meant later later. I remember back in my school days I would stay up until about 1AM (often building balsa wood models, which gives you some indication of my age), which was about as late as I could stay up and still get out of bed at 6:50 for school. If suddenly I didn't have to get up until, say, 8:50, I can't think of any reason I would not have stayed up until 3AM to compensate.
        • IIf suddenly I didn't have to get up until, say, 8:50, I can't think of any reason I would not have stayed up until 3AM to compensate.

          Perhaps. But research shows that is NOT how most teenagers respond. A 55 minute delay in school start time resulted in a median of 34 minutes of additional sleep.

          Teens get more sleep with later school start time [sciencedaily.com]

          Schools start too early [cdc.gov]

          Later High School Start Times Improve Student Learning and Health [umn.edu]

          • But it is kind of interesting that it's not one-to-one. If 55 gets you 34 minutes, does 110 minutes get you 89 minutes (the extra time beyond 55 minutes goes all to sleep), or 68 minutes (in that the percentage of time that went to sleep remains constant)? As an aside, I'll add that I've always been a night person, but have spent the last 30 years working at jobs that start at about 8AM, and yet on any long vacation break I find myself falling back into going to be at 2AM-ish and waking up at 11. So I do
      • Well then, why not make the start time 9am? Isn't more sleep better?

        Or, perhaps, 0930, just to be sure?

    • Research has shown that puberty causes teens circadian rhythms to move forward, they stay up late and get up late naturally.
    • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
      That is actually the goal here, sorta. The circadian rhythm of a post puberty teen puts their natural sleep time at 10-11pm. They also optimally need 9.5hrs of sleep. That would put them at a 7:30-8:30am wake time.
    • If you read TFA @ https://pediatrics.aappublicat... [aappublications.org]

      Early studies addressed a core question: âoeDoes delaying start time result in students obtaining more sleep, or do students just stay up later and thus negate the effects of the delayed start time?â

      Wahlstrom et al50,51 assessed more than 18â000 high school students in Minneapolis before and after the districtâ(TM)s school start time changed from 7:15 am to 8:40 am beginning with the 1997â"1998 school year. Bedtimes after the change were similar (ie, did not shift to a later time) to those of students in schools that did not change start times, and, as a result, students obtained nearly 1 additional hour of sleep on school nights during the 1999â"2000 school year. Other studies have also failed to show a delay in bedtime in response to delayed start times. In a study involving grades 6 through 12 in a school district that delayed high school start times by 1 hour (7:30 to 8:30 am), students averaged 12 to 30 minutes more nightly sleep, and the percentage of students who reported â¥8 hours of sleep increased from 37% to 50%.52 Owens et al,53 in a study of adolescents attending an independent school that instituted a start time delay of 30 minutes (from 8:00 to 8:30 am), reported that average bedtimes actually shifted earlier by an average of 18 minutes, and mean self-reported school night sleep duration increased by 45 minutes. In addition, the percentage of students getting less than 7 hours of sleep decreased by 79%, and those reporting at least 8 hours of sleep increased from 16% to 55%. Finally, in a 3-year study of >9000 students from 8 public high schools in 3 states (Colorado, Wyoming, and Minnesota), the percentage of students sleeping â¥8 hours per night was dramatically higher in those schools that had a later start time (eg, 33% at 7:30 am vs 66% at 8:55 am).

  • by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:06AM (#59313170)
    A lot of parents work. I'm sure that some kids will end up being woken just as early, taken to some form of "early morning care" for half an hour, then having to stay in school till later.
  • Newspaper boy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:39AM (#59313238) Journal

    I used to deliver newspapers between 6 and 7 AM, and earned decent money with that. Bought my first Intel 386DX powered PC with it. But it was pretty terrible for my sleep and I was always tired.

    I'm quite amazed that actual science is driving legislation nowadays! It's much more common to make it easy for the parents, not the kids.

    • I remember 5:30AM swim team/water polo practices and “zero hour” classes after that in high school. Despite not being a morning person back then, the only real pain was jumping into the cold pool as a zombie.

  • Maybe the kids will be awake for the first few hours of their curriculum. I remember that back when I was a kid, we mostly looked like a Valium research group before 10.

  • What's the reasoning behind those early starts?
    • In my area they stagger start times so they don't need to purchase as many buses and drivers. Middle schools start as early as 7:20, high schools around 8:00 and elementary between 8:30-9:15. I don't recall the exact figure, but this saves up to 40% on transportation costs.

  • by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @04:34AM (#59313332)

    If schools need to stagger their start times (due to not having enough buses etc) why don't they have the primary school kids (who's body clocks mean they should be going to bed early and getting up early) start first so the older kids can start later (and have the later-to-bed later-to-rise sleep pattern teen body clocks need)

    • You should read the summary again and take special note of the part that says "The law bars middle schools from starting before 8am, while high schools must wait till 8:30am to begin classes."

    • by heson ( 915298 )
      Odly enough that's how my school was organized in the seventies.
    • I believe that originally they thought that the older kids could tough it out and start earlier, and that younger kids needed their extra sleep. Turns out that the actual research suggests the opposite.

  • Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @05:31AM (#59313438) Journal

    The organization cited research that shows that biological changes in puberty make it difficult for the average teenager to fall asleep before 11pm

    First of all, I strongly support schools starting not so insanely early. Kudos to that in general, and let it spread far and wide.

    That said, we have multiple teens, and mainly to manage space they are expected to retire to their device-less rooms by 9 PM. We don't tell them to sleep (as though you could order someone to sleep anyway) but surprise surprise, they mostly do go to sleep in short order.

    So I suspect that the difficulty for the average teen at falling asleep before 11 is cultural, not something intrinsic ...

    • So I suspect that the difficulty for the average teen at falling asleep before 11 is cultural, not something intrinsic ...

      You can actually measure the circadian rhythm using various proxies such as body temperature. Teenagers on average have that shifted back by hours relative to adults.

      That said, we have multiple teens, and mainly to manage space they are expected to retire to their device-less rooms by 9 PM. We don't tell them to sleep (as though you could order someone to sleep anyway) but surprise surpr

      • So I suspect that the difficulty for the average teen at falling asleep before 11 is cultural, not something intrinsic ...

        You can actually measure the circadian rhythm using various proxies such as body temperature. Teenagers on average have that shifted back by hours relative to adults.

        Who do they measure though? I can fully believe that people who don't normally sleep until midnight have bodies that don't prepare for sleep until midnight, but what does that prove?

        Also, how do you know? Unless you're checking in on them how do you know they're asleep.

        Well they snore for one thing. Also if we forgot to tell them something, we go to tell them and find them asleep, for example. That sort of thing. You tend to know these things with people you live with.

        And sure they don't have the devices that you know of, but do you really know they haven't bought a $30 phone off ebay and a sim with data?

        Anything's possible, lol. Considering what other schemes they fail to pull off, I'd be impressed, but whatever.

    • Except that there is a bunch of research crossing cultural and even species boundaries about this. The research is partly convincing because it's not something that the researchers are likely to have been motivated to find as a result, since it goes pretty much as the opposite of our normal cultural beliefs and sleep and laziness.

  • Move the clocks forward during summer break. athen when school starts, move them back an hour.

  • by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @07:28AM (#59313756)

    The organization cited research that shows that biological changes in puberty make it difficult for the average teenager to fall asleep before 11pm, and that teenagers need between 8.5 and 9.5 hours of sleep to function at their best.

    Oh man! My driving license says I'm 47, but I think I'm still a teenager!

    • by geek ( 5680 )

      The organization cited research that shows that biological changes in puberty make it difficult for the average teenager to fall asleep before 11pm, and that teenagers need between 8.5 and 9.5 hours of sleep to function at their best.

      Oh man! My driving license says I'm 47, but I think I'm still a teenager!

      Funny. I'm the opposite. I'm just a few years younger than you but my body clock changed drastically when I turned 40. I'm up at 5am whether I like it or not. I used to go to work by 6 but instead switched to going to Jiu Jitsu at 6 and rolling until 7:30 - 8 then going to work. All my direct reports are young and dont show up until 9-10am. I didn't want to be that boss that was there early and making people feel like they needed to be there too.

  • just get rid of daylight saving.

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