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Medicine Technology

Trump Calls On FDA To Ban All Flavored Vapes After Mystery Lung Illness (theverge.com) 197

Posted by BeauHD from the extreme-measures dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: In a surprise meeting on Wednesday, President Donald Trump pushed to ban all non-tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes from the market. Trump discussed the proposal during a meeting at the White House after discussing the move with advisers like Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and acting Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Norman Sharpless, Bloomberg reported. "Not only is it a problem overall, but really specifically with respect for children," Trump told reporters. He continued, "We may very well have to do something very, very strong about it."

Secretary Azar said the FDA would soon issue regulatory guidance to remove flavored vaping products from the market. The secretary cited statistics showing five million children using e-cigarettes of some kind, a number he found "alarming." In December, the US Surgeon General declared underage vaping "an epidemic," laying the groundwork for future regulatory action. Last week, federal officials announced that over 450 people across the country had grown sick with deadly lung illnesses that have been linked to e-cigarette use.
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Trump Calls On FDA To Ban All Flavored Vapes After Mystery Lung Illness More

Trump Calls On FDA To Ban All Flavored Vapes After Mystery Lung Illness

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  • Make
    Vaping
    Great
    Again

  • bunch of nonsense - safer than raw veggies (Score:4, Informative)

    by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:06PM (#59183224)

    millions maimed and killed by tobacco smoke each year, vaping of mainstream commercial products done for over a decade by tens of millions with no problems.

    so, we have a handful of cases where people likely vaped a shady or fly-by-night outfits product.

    we have more deaths ands illness from raw vegetables than vaping

    Trump should keep his ignorant self out of it.

    This is some agenda driven hysteria. Vaping is much safer than smoking, proven by studies already.

    • Nobody cares what vapists think.

      • I neither vape nor smoke (nor do snuff or dip)

        But this is obvious nonsensical hysteria about vaping. Too many years went by with zero problems.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Yeah, it's not like vape pipes were 'BLOWING UP' or something. Yeah, put any unregulated liquid and burn it and suck the fumes, what could go wrong. Nicotine vapes, basically selling nothing but addiction, nothing says victim of marketing and addiction, like lighting up zero high, maximum addiction, nicotine.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by iggymanz ( 596061 )

            plenty of nicotine addicted people function fine by my observation. haven't tried it, but I love my giant mugs of strong loose leaf black tea with caffeine. mmmmm.

            I don't see a problem with selling nicotine patches, gum and vaping with nicotine, compared to what smoking has done.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          On the other hand, we have a bit of a sheep buffer problem here. Yes, there were many years with zero or minimal problems, but the usage was also a tiny fraction of what it is today. Usage has exploded, which brings in new manufacturers and a larger community. Lots of things are fine when it is a small dedicated community but become problems when it becomes a mass market.

      • Nobody cares what prohibitionist Nazis think.

    • Re:bunch of nonsense - safer than raw veggies (Score:5, Insightful)

      by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:24PM (#59183282)

      This is some agenda driven hysteria. Vaping is much safer than smoking, proven by studies already.

      Are these from the same people who said smoking was safe [healio.com]?

      • Re:bunch of nonsense - safer than raw veggies (Score:4, Insightful)

        by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:28PM (#59183318)

        No, it is from the British Public Health Authority [theguardian.com], which unlike in America, does not receive sin-tax money for tobacco products.

        All of the anti-smoking people in America who receive tax money (as a result of the tobacco settlement), would no longer get money if everybody switched to vaping

        So, rather than being pleased that people are doing something less dangerous (95% less dangers according to British health system), they are seeking to demonize vaping... so they keep getting money

        You can already see the astro-turfers all over this story, facts be damned they wanna get paid

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by sfcat ( 872532 )

          All of the anti-smoking people in America who receive tax money (as a result of the tobacco settlement), would no longer get money if everybody switched to vaping

          So, rather than being pleased that people are doing something less dangerous (95% less dangers according to British health system), they are seeking to demonize vaping... so they keep getting money

          You can already see the astro-turfers all over this story, facts be damned they wanna get paid

          Just like tobacco execs. Ironic, don't ya think...

    • Re:bunch of nonsense - safer than raw veggies (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Athanasius ( 306480 ) <[gro.yggim] [ta] [todhsals]> on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:25PM (#59183290) Homepage

      Or possibly it's taken that many years for accumulated effects, and/or a wider population vaping, to show the issues.

      Sensibly more research needs to be carried out, and perhaps in the meantime some limitations put on the sale and marketing. If the cases of illness turn out to have other causes, or at least extenuating circumstances (some other pre-existing condition, a rare combination of factors, etc), then those regulations could be relaxed again.

      I don't think anyone with sense is saying vaping is at the same level of personal health risk as smoking tobacco products, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily safe. You're still inhaling relatively high temperature vapours, the effects of which haven't been sufficiently studied. At the very least there needs to be regulation of what substances can be in the liquids, else you know someone looking to raise their profit margin will use the equivalent of laundry detergent to 'cut' it.

      • I think it's safe to say that our country's current problem has more to do with illicit vaping cartridges then it does with the method in general (not that I'm saying the method doesn't have its flaws). Vaping is popular in other parts of the world but they aren't having these problems. This points to something specific to our own country as the problem.

      • A very reasonable sounding piece of propaganda to ban vaping and maintain tobacco addiction. Personally I will take the advice of the British health service and continue taking nicotine by vaping.

      • Or possibly it's taken that many years for accumulated effects, and/or a wider population vaping, to show the issues.

        Except it hasn't. The problem here is isolated to people who use specific aftermarket products and the effects are basically instantaneous.

      • We know that PG and VG don't bioaccumulate and that exposure is cleared by the lungs rapidly. We can easily project long-term use outcomes. The chemicals are over a century old and well-studied.

        The "not well-studied" line is essentially the same line as cigarettes or saturated fat not being well-studied: it's put out by people who have no idea what well-studied would mean.

    • so, we have a handful of cases where people likely vaped a shady or fly-by-night outfits product.

      Oh look something about vaping, iggymanz is sure to show up. Not disappointed. However, as much as I disagree with like 99% of what you have to say, I'll agree that folks shouldn't in any circumstances be buying vape back of the van style.

      we have more deaths ands illness from raw vegetables than vaping

      Well...... I'll just pass on comment on this.

      Trump should keep his ignorant self out of it.

      One of the rare moments we'll ever agree, I'm sure.

      This is some agenda driven hysteria

      See why do you always have to think that it's some agenda? It's definitely hysteria but when you add agenda it just triggers folks to reaching for the tin foil for you.

      Vaping is much safer than smoking, proven by studies already

      Ugh.

      • See why do you always have to think that it's some agenda?

        It's almost certainly an agenda, by the people who are paying for the anti-vaping ads. Whether there are more people involved may or may not be true.

    • Re:bunch of nonsense - safer than raw veggies (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:13PM (#59183674) Homepage

      millions maimed and killed by tobacco smoke each year, vaping of mainstream commercial products done for over a decade by tens of millions with no problems.

      A whole decade?

      Given that it's millenials doing it and that aven tobacco takes two or three decades for statistics to become clear, when do you think the deaths from vaping will start to appear?

      • Going by the six percent of smokers who die of cancer and emphasema with less than 15 years going at it, I'm not really worried about any lurking vaping issues with mainstream commercial products. There just isn't any comparison.

      • Given that it's millenials doing it and that aven tobacco takes two or three decades for statistics to become clear, when do you think the deaths from vaping will start to appear?

        Actual deaths themselves or the slow deterioration evident in lungs? You don't need to wait for 2-3 decades for death when spirometries show the deterioration of lungs far sooner. And that's just one of the very many indicators of the health impacts of smoking.

  • People have been vaping for a long time, including "huge clouds."

    So, what's changed to cause the recent issues? My guess is someone is putting the vape equivalent of "synthetic marijuana" into their liquid, and that's causing problems, same as the smokable stuff they sold at truck stops a few years ago.

    • Re:What's new? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:17PM (#59183266)

      The lung damage is being cause by Vitamin E oil that is being used (along with synthetic thc) to create this 'street drug'

      It is beyond fucking stupid that the Prohibitionist fuckwads are going to smear the entire community of vapers and legal cannabis with these deaths, and injuries, which are a direct result of BLACK MARKET trade in illegal goods.

      The only real way to prevent this is to provide SAFE AND LEGAL access

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • ACT first , think...... never?

        trumps motto.

      • There are multiple causes going on here, there's a lot of strange stuff heading into the lungs, such as glycerine. Vaping is inherently not a great idea, but we accept that it's a suitable source for weaning one's self off of tobacco. The snag is that people are becoming even more addicted to the nicotine, and are vaping the equivalent of multiple packs of cigarettes a day because they were told it was 100% safe.

        Even if not banned, we definitely need some negative press and marketing around it to get throu

        • Have you ever vaped? Let me tell you, it is a really effective way of getting nicotine into the body, and IF somebody was to just go a vape 3 packs of cigs worth, they would have the spins and be vomiting.

          I smoked for over a decade, then switched to nicotine gum (chewed that for about 5 years), and finally got turned onto using a vape about 5-6 years ago. As a smoker, I immediately noticed that I coughed less and I didn't stink of smoking (actually, I noticed that other smokers smelled) all the time.

          Even th

          • Re:What's new? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:26PM (#59183850)

            fyi, you do really come across like a judgmental ass

            Maybe because the few people I know who vape can be asses as well. They vape inside even when asked not to despite the lousy smell, or even when HR demands that they stop (at which point some vape secretly and assume no one notices the smell). Some are always puffing periodically all day long, not just during a normal smoke break. So if smoking was socially unacceptable, why do some think that this all changes with vaping and that puffing in people's faces is acceptable?

            Health wise, we haven't had vaping long enough to say what's going to happen. These relatively few deaths may be flukes with bad formulas. But what happens in 30 years if there's a rash of emphysema patients? If people want the freedom to harm themselves or take risks then fine, do it to yourself but no one else, and don't come asking for less expensive medical care when it turns out it was bad for you all along. Right now there's a common attitude that vaping is 100% safe, and that needs to be argued against.

            • I've already posted this, but you must have missed it:

              Public Health England maintains vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking [theguardian.com]

              So, why is it that the British have such a differing opinion? It is because they do not have a bunch of people who have received Billions of dollars over the past two decades as a result of tobacco taxes levied under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement [wikipedia.org]. They see vaping as an end to their settlement money and are determined to get vaping classified as a public health hazard in orde

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gTsiros ( 205624 )

              what do your idiot coworkers have to do with vaping?

              how is "BUT WHAT IF IN 30 YEARS?!" a solid argument, when the same can be said about every single activity, tool, food, drink in society *today*? You can say the same argument about LITERALLY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. So it has nothing to do with vaping, either.

              not sure if you were the one who posted it above, but vaping does not involve " relatively high temperature vapors". you can try inhaling as hard as possible, the vapor might reach your lungs before

      • like they care and are doing anything. The cigarette companies will give them big fat donations that'll make up for anything lost from vaping companies. Most people don't vape so it's not going to cost them any votes. And It'll get them some good press.

        When you've got an establishment that continuously fucks over the working class (is everybody ready for the next recession? Is everybody ready to lose healthcare when they lose their jobs?) but is still nominally elected (yes, the establishment cheats to

      • You are right, The Donald is a Prohibitionist fuckwad... I had never thought of it like that

    • Based on the CDC's analysis someone out there sold Cannibis oil mixed with Vitamin E acetate as vaping fluid. When oil is vaporized and inhaled it condenses into oil and the lungs have no mechanism for removing that oil without damage. So every papilla in the lungs where the oil condenses dies, and the then the surrounding papilla in the lung shutdown while the body removes the dead tissue and accompanying oil. While this is going on the victim that breathed in this oil has something like 20% lung capacity

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      Mass market? Vaping has gone from a niche with a dedicated community to the mass market, meaning lots of new users and lots of new suppliers.. the later being rather important since now it is profitable enough that it isn't just a few passionate producers but instead companies wanting to cash in on a trend and needing to compete on price.

  • What about assault rifles? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Photo_Nut ( 676334 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:14PM (#59183252)

    How many Americans were killed by assault rifles? A few die due to vaping and it must be banned?

    Trump and Republicans must have friends who make profits in the burning variety of nicotine delivery...

    This is about politics. Follow the money.

    • Assault rifles killed 700 from 2000 to 2017 [scientificamerican.com], so that's about 40 per year. Or about one month of the new vaping issues...

      • Re:What about assault rifles? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:30PM (#59183324)

        it is not a vaping issue, it is a 'dangerous black market products' issue

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by RightSaidFred99 ( 874576 )
        Your comments will fall on deaf ears. These dimwits think "assault rifles" are some massive scourge on society. They will be perplexed when they ban them (and they will, because people are stupid and politics will swing left) and it makes no difference to the number of deaths per year from guns. They will then move on to semi-auto pistols.

      • Re:What about (any gun)? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Ryzilynt ( 3492885 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @07:03PM (#59183428)

        Assault rifles killed 700 from 2000 to 2017 [scientificamerican.com], so that's about 40 per year. Or about one month of the new vaping issues...

        From the article you site :

        "The researchers’ records do not include every shooting with mass casualties during that 17-year period, and the definition of “active shooter” may have missed instances of gang violence, Haider says."

        Here's another good one :

        "Three-quarters of all U.S. murders in 2017 – 14,542 out of 19,510 – involved a firearm. About half (51%) of all suicides that year – 23,854 out of 47,173 – involved a gun."

        https://www.pewresearch.org/fa... [pewresearch.org]

        I don't give a fuck that my link isn't solely "assault rifle" deaths.

        • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

          by Rockoon ( 1252108 )

          I don't give a fuck that my link isn't solely "assault rifle" deaths.

          So long as they ban assault rifles, yes?

          This IS what you are defending right now, YES?

          So you dont give a fuck what the facts are, and are even willing to bring up unrelated facts and use them dishonestly as if they were related, because you dont like assault rifles, YES?

          You fucks are the problem.

          • Naw,

            Mostly just saying that guns are involved with a lot of deaths caused by firearms.

            • Mostly just saying that guns are involved with a lot of deaths caused by firearms.

              Uh, well that kind of goes without saying, yeah? If the death was caused by a firearm, then yes, it's likely that a gun, the most common kind of firearm, was involved. The alternative would be a lot of firearm deaths being by cannons, which I guess might be true in some places.

      • Your link doesn't say anything like that. What it says is that these researchers looked at a sample of active shooter incidents over that seventeen year period, and found that incidents which involved semiautomatic rifles had an average of 4.25 fatalities and 5.48 wounded, while incidents without semiautomatic rifles had an average of 2.49 fatalities and 3.02 wounded.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Yeah, it's typical gun grabber math. Try suggesting how many lives would be saved by banning alcohol and they'll look at you like you're crazy. "But.. but.. what would I use for social lubrication?!". They will tell you to look someone in the face whose kid died from a gun and tell them your gun rights are more important, but ask them to look someone in the face whose kid died from a filthy drunk behind the wheel and explain why alcohol should remain legal.

        For the record both should remain legal, including

      • Vaping isn't a constitutional right, genius.
        I truly hope you're merely pretending to be retarded.

        Neither are guns :

        a "well regulated militia" on the other hand is protected, and so is their rights to bear arms.

        "Well regulated"

        So knock it off with all the anti-regulation bullshit, if you abide the constitution and all , like you claim.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Some Guy I Dont Know ( 6200212 )

          "Well Regulated" means "In good working order" - aka, experienced in the use of weapons. It does not having anything to do with rules regarding sales or background checks.

          Of course, that's irrelevant since the prefatory phrase has no impact on the only directive in the Amendment: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    • Trump and Republicans must have friends who make profits in the burning variety of nicotine delivery...

      I imagine that might be true, but I doubt that's the reason Trump wants a ban on flavored vapes. Frequently he just spurts out whatever he's thinking. Remember, this is the same guy who suggested nuking hurricanes to stop them from hitting the US. [axios.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      In my own estimation, Trump picked a topic he could kick around because there are no public defenders of vaping products. He'll honk on about how this shows he cares about American people's health. Meanwhile, this is the first year fewer Americans have health insurance ever since the ACA passed, due in no small measure to that eejit.

  • Adults walking around sucking on those things like a baby with a pacifier.

    • Indeed, I'l all for it.

      Let's ban smoking also then. Cuz it sure causes millions of people to look like they suck on them like babies on a pacifier too. Not to mention die prematurely by the thousands every day.

    • The fact that you picked the name of one of the most racist tv characters in modern history is interesting. Now I'm all but certain nothing you say should be given weight.

      Yep, mine is weird too. Utterly beside the point. Methinks all these people sucking on something got you a little hot and bothered. Too funny.

  • Aren't most of the mystery lung disease cases linked to additives in black-market THC capsules? What's the point of banning flavored capsules?

    • Aren't most of the mystery lung disease cases linked to additives in black-market THC capsules? What's the point of banning flavored capsules?

      To be seen as Doing Something of course. Whether that something is reasonable or productive is beside the point. And our Insecure-Manchild-in-Chief needs to reassure himself he's Powerful by Doing Something Very Strong.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dissy ( 172727 )

      Aren't most of the mystery lung disease cases linked to additives in black-market THC capsules? What's the point of banning flavored capsules?

      No no, Trump just explicitly said all of the adults that died from the mystery lung disease is the fault of children vaping.

      That's why he is in favor of children vaping only tobacco products. So children will only vape tobacco which will killing the adults.

      It couldn't make any more sense if it was dipped in axe body spray.

  • Tim Heidecker and the Electric Sun 20 (Score:3)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @06:26PM (#59183300)

    Heidecker was accused of knowingly killing 20 kids at a music festival with bad/bogus vape juice.

    The issue isn't vaping (though only dumbass douchebags vape), or vape juice from reputable brands. The issue is that anyone can sell vape juice with who the fuck knows what in it and kill people.

    You can watch the full trial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • You do realize that was satire... right?

      Adult Swim’s On Cinema has been giving us a brilliantly strange satire of Siskel & Ebert-style public access movie review programs for a while now, and like any program related to Tim & Eric co-creator Tim Heidecker, you can always assume one constant: It’s always going to get weirder. Case in point, the latest wrinkle in the evolving story of On Cinema, which sees Tim on trial for murder. Adult Swim has released the above promo video for the event

    • ..talk about a sucker for fake news.

      Do you also look to the Onion for your facts?
  • Someone, definitely not anyone with a right-wing agenda, circulated poison in black market vape products after years of (relative, not to understate inevitable actual danger/harm/risk from vaping propylene glycol etc) , and now they're going to use the mass poisoning as a pretense to attempt to curtail the industry and products that have been relatively low-consequence for up to a decade? I'm sorry, the whole thing has a disingenuous quality to it, like the Trump Administration and what it's made of the Fed

  • Bring back these babies

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/... [pinterest.com]

    Perfectly safe after trying the first one, because you won't smoke the second.

  • ....shorted vape stocks before tweet: High

  • I think I've never heard of such rapid escalation of hearsay to media coverage to LAW since late 1930's Germany. These absolute megalomaniacs running the US managed to overinflate data about THX-based vapor products getting a bunch of people in the hospital, spin them as legit, widespread products (which they aren't - these are a subset of the entire market from a rogue company using bad practices), EXTRAPOLATE the issue to all electronic cigarettes (including nicotine-delivery systems), and suddenly all te

  • Of course, this would disrupt a fairly large business as well as the tax revenue from tobacco purchases. Whether it would be a positive regarding health care costs or Social Security income, private pensions, private health insurance, etc. vs. payouts of same would require careful analysis. This might even include the analysis of the value of a human life. And, freedom to make choices. This is complicated.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fred911 ( 83970 )

      ''Whether it would be a positive regarding health care costs''

      It's obvious that tobacco creates health issues that are unsurmountable in costs. Nicotine, however isn't cancerous. And one can't equate ingestion of nicotine to tobacco consumption. There's significantly more harmful substances in tobacco than there is in nicotine.

  • Let's see if I got this right... if you draw vaporized lipids (oil) into your lungs, you risk a well known but not common disease usually caused by drawing oily vapors into your lungs?

  • Now can we ban all cigarettes and other burned-tobacco products because of all the fatalities they've caused?

  • loss on taxes and people will still smoke them but now totally uncontrolled.

  • Banning flavored vapes in no way stops vaping. Nicotine base, and glycerin are all that are really necessary to vape, possibly propylene glycol to thin the solution. As far as flavor additives are concerned, it is a major industry used by almost all food manufactures. Those that want flavored liquid will have no problem getting everything necessary to make it. This actually may not be a bad thing, as we have found a number of additives that are problematic.

    As far as those that use nicotine salt, tha

  • Around 2000 the Australian government published cigarette ingredient disclosures from several major manufacturers. There are a number of flavoring ingredients, plus ingredients to support other properties. I have not read the more recent updates, but the original disclosures were quite interesting. It is not just shredded tobacco; it is an engineered formulation for brand distinction, and to remind the smoker to come back for more.

  • Millions of deaths total from tobacco over the years and lets just put a weak ass warning on them. Opiods are killing thousands a year. No big deal let just change the rules a bit and go after some low level flunkies and maybe a few of the big wigs. Six pepoe died from vaping! Shut down everything!

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