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Medicine United States News

Michigan Set To Become First State To Ban Flavored E-cigarettes (cnet.com) 100

Posted by msmash from the taking-a-stand dept.
Michigan is poised to become the first US state to ban online and retail sales of flavored e-cigarettes. From a report: The ban, which would last six months, comes at the direction of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer from the state's Department of Health and Human Services, according to a statement Wednesday. "Companies selling vaping products are using candy flavors to hook children on nicotine and misleading claims to promote the belief that these products are safe. That ends today," Whitmer said. The ban also covers the marketing of vaping products with words like clean, safe and healthy. Whitmer also ordered the Michigan Department of Transportation to enforce a statute that already exists, barring the advertisement of vaping products on billboards.
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Michigan Set To Become First State To Ban Flavored E-cigarettes More

Michigan Set To Become First State To Ban Flavored E-cigarettes

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  • Back to real cigs kids! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @12:41PM (#59157766)

    Did you really think you'd be able to escape Big Nicotine?

    Nope. Now go down to the shop and hit those genuine cigarettes, so much healthier.

    • Now go down to the shop and hit those genuine cigarettes, so much healthier.

      Well they didn't announce that they are banning unflavored stuff.

      So couldn't you just fill your mouth with Gummy Bears while you vape unflavored stuff . . . ?

      Same effect.

      Maybe.

      • Even better, they should have allowed flavored vapes, but only if they are nicotine free.

      • Well they didn't announce that they are banning unflavored stuff.

        Just sell unflavored juice along with a bottle of flavoring the customer must add themselves.

        At least, until they enact bans/restrictions/licencing on the sale of vanilla, cherry, strawberry, etc etc flavor extracts.

        After all, local bakeries are just a gateway to the horrors of flavored vaping, amirite?

        How Progressive of them! Gotta save those sweet, sweet State tobacco tax revenues and Big Tobacco settlement payouts! Support your Michigan government, give a kid a pack of Camels today! Just don't drink the

        • Actually, it's flavored juice with no nicotine, and then small packets that you squeeze into the bigger bottle to get to what strength you want. These are already in stores, works fine. If this does anything, it SHOULD actually decrease the prices, since there theoretically would be one "model" per flavor, instead of multiple strengths. I bought some a few months ago...so the market is already prepared for this.

          • Actually, it's flavored juice with no nicotine, and then small packets that you squeeze into the bigger bottle to get to what strength you want. These are already in stores, works fine. If this does anything, it SHOULD actually decrease the prices, since there theoretically would be one "model" per flavor, instead of multiple strengths. I bought some a few months ago...so the market is already prepared for this.

            Well, you know as well as I do that those will be next if enough people just move to that method instead of going back to smoking cigarettes.

            It's about the money and control. There are many rich and powerful interests both inside and outside government that make obscene amounts of money from tobacco and cigarettes all the way from seed to grave. They want the tax, tobacco-settlement payment, and cancer/COPD healthcare/pharma/treatment/cessation industry gravy-trains to keep on chugging, especially when it's

      • Let's see them ban perfumes and other scented body products first. Many if not most of them are toxic, and many of them have musk in them. That musk lets the toxics penetrate cell walls.

        I don't like flavored vapes, but I do like fruity and other sweet drinks, and flavored booze doesn't have ingredient lists either. What's in that shit? Ban it!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Agripa ( 139780 )

        Well they didn't announce that they are banning unflavored stuff.

        Didn't they? Isn't "plain" another flavor?

    • I wouldn't want my kid vaping but there have only been a handful of cases of problems recorded. Even if you only look at adults, the number of people that vape in the US is something like 9 million... I just don't see it as a big issue. Your kid is many many times more likely to be struck by lighting in their lives (something like 1 in 3000) than to be one of those cases.

      • I wouldn't want my kid vaping but there have only been a handful of cases of problems recorded. Even if you only look at adults, the number of people that vape in the US is something like 9 million... I just don't see it as a big issue. Your kid is many many times more likely to be struck by lighting in their lives (something like 1 in 3000) than to be one of those cases.

        I prefer "educating" people about the risks rather than banning a product. Teach them the risks and let them decide. I don't really endorse vaping, but as long as someone isn't blowing their cloud around me, I don't see why people shouldn't vape their candy-cigs if it is what they want to do based on an informed decision.

        • I prefer "educating" people about the risks rather than banning a product. Teach them the risks and let them decide.

          That is reasonable for adults. But younger teens don't have the mental maturity to make life altering decisions. The fact that it is dangerous and addictive, and thus using it pisses off the adults they are rebelling against, makes it more attractive.

          • That is reasonable for adults. But younger teens don't have the mental maturity to make life altering decisions. The fact that it is dangerous and addictive, and thus using it pisses off the adults they are rebelling against, makes it more attractive.

            Is it not already illegal for kids though? Just like with regular cigarettes, punish the adults who sell, or provide, vaping materials to children.

      • Re:Back to real cigs kids! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @01:32PM (#59158034)

        This is an example of intentionally creating crowd panic over a situation that SHOULD lead to people being healthier

        The REAL issue is that vaping is undercutting sales of Tobacco, and as a result is threatening to reduce the sin-tax money going to anti-tobacco groups

        to protect their income from tobacco products (or include vaping in products they get sin tax money from), these anti-tobacco groups have entered into a propaganda war against vaping and are employing their friends in the media to trumpet every single vaping issue as if it affects the entire field

        Currently some cheap-ass vaping products from China are causing health issues

        This has happened recently with Milk and Dog Food products from China and the proper response is for import regulators to ensure that safe products are being brought into the country

        The anti-vaping response is, of course, to demonize vaping.

        If we took the same approach with prior incidents of defective products, then we would have demonized Milk and Dogs instead of poorly manufactured products

        I admit that I used vaping to quite a multi-decade tobacco addiction, and as such I see vaping as the clear 'lesser of two evils' and about 50 times easier to tape off and quite

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          I admit that I used vaping to quite a multi-decade tobacco addiction, and as such I see vaping as the clear 'lesser of two evils' and about 50 times easier to tape off and quite

          That's fine. Vapes are a perfectly good way to help you quit.

          The problem is, flavored vapes are open the reason why kids get hooked on them, and use among teens is rising, such that if you total vaping and smoking, the overall trend is increasing.

          If you ask any teen, they hate cigarettes because the smell is awful. The flavored vapes

          • And this my friends, is what is known as 'Baseless Pontification', one of the clearest signs that you are hearing from an astro-turfer

            Notice how they rely on NO CITATIONS, or even personal experiences, they just make up some statement from 'any teen' and sure enough we are supposed to suspend all of our own experience based beliefs and chuck them in a creek... 'FOR THE CHILDREN'

            go jump in a lake

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Daetrin ( 576516 )
              Your previous post had no citations either, and tlhIngan has been around longer than you and has a diverse comment history. Why shouldn't we believe that you're the astroturfer?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Puls4r ( 724907 )
      Except this is more SuperKendall spam.

      Big Nicotine owns some of the big vaping companies. Phillip Morris owns Jule. The problem is twofold: the chemicals you put into the vapes weren't regulated. The vapes weren't regulated. So people were getting (and are getting) very sick.

      In addition, nicotine in chemicals appears to be just as addictive as nicotine in cigarettes. Go figure.

      Essentially the tobacco companies thought they found a whole new way to addict a whole new generation, and some intell

      • Here is the thing about vaping, I can control the amount of nicotine in the juice, from enough to feel nauseous to ZERO

        This allows for effective tapering of nicotine to zero, from which quitting is easier than cold turkey from cigs

        And, don't get started on nicotine gum, the levels available do not support tapering, and the method of delivery is so unlike smoking that it never becomes an adequate replacement

        I tried to use gum to quit for about 5 years before switching to vaping, and subsequently quitting ent

      • Nicotine is addictive. So what? Caffeine is addictive. Oh, you like coffee? Too bad, it's addictive and must be banned.

        See how that works?

        • They love to act like nicotine is like heroin or oxy. People get "addicted" because of the ritual and because of the social aspect. You take the nicotine out of people's vape juice without them knowing and many won't even notice.

          It's weakly addictive at worst, it's just that it has other reinforcing factors and is legal and easy to get.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by samdu ( 114873 )

        No amount of regulation is going to keep people like the ones that got sick recently from doing exactly what they did - get some janky, off-the-street, THC-laden juice made by using solvents to extract the THC, putting it in a vaporizer, and huffing it down. Those incidents weren't about vaping per se, but about people doing stupid things with shady juice.

    • When I was 5 my friend goaded me into trying smoking. We talked about where we could get a cigarette, and I remembered that my parents had gotten a cigar that someone had given them upon the birth of their child (that used to be a tradition). I asked my mom where it was, and she (probably cleverly) told me without asking why. I found it and snuck it out to my friend. He'd gotten matches, and we lit it and took a puff.

      The experience was so awful that I've never smoked again, and the smell still makes
      • Yeah. The thing about cigars is you might make yourself sick on the nicotine and the next day you'll wake up feeling like you slept in a burning tobacco field but you only need to power through that experience another 3-5 times and it's smooth sailing after that. Most kids lack the resolve.

  • Funny, how — after fining tobacco producers billions of dollars (much of which went into the States' "general funds" rather than being spent on caring for the sick), we're now allowing — if not encouraging marijuana use.

    (My inner Libertarian remains flabbergasted, how people condone government telling them, what they can and cannot do to themselves, and still consider themselves free, but that's a separate point.)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Calydor ( 739835 )

        It's still smoke you pull into your lungs. At least vaping is mostly water.

        • If it were 90% water and 10% cyanide it would be "mostly water", too. The "mostly water" part isn't the problem. It's the rest of it.

          While I agree, smoking anything is harmful, there is a difference between smoking weed and smoking tobacco or vaping. Unlike tobacco and vaping, smoking weed isn't usually something people do 10x per day every day.

        • It's still smoke you pull into your lungs. At least vaping is mostly water.

          Vaping marijuana is waaay better than smoking it. I wish we had vaporizers in my teenage years.

      • Marijuana doesn't have near the level of carcinogens that tobacco does.

        It can still lead to emphysema [webmd.com] or dementia [therecoveryvillage.com] among other things. Note: I am pro-drug legalization, but I don't think it's helpful to sugar-coat the effects of drugs.

        • Also psychosis in teens susceptible to it (which my nephew was). I don't get the whole hippie "MJ is a natural, harmless cure-all maaaaan!" bullshit. I agree it should be legal but stop pretending it's harmless.

      • Nicotine has NO carcinogens. I don't know what's in the shit coming from China but the clean glycol-based juices don't have any either.

        • No, but it has alcohol (propylene glycol) and can cause skin and eye irritation (irritation to other soft tissues). I mention this because I am one of those people that are very grateful to amazon for giving me a much better selection of alcohol free deodorant and skin care products that won't cause me to break out into a rash.

          That being said if you are actually heating the vape juice too hot and it does burn then yes there are carcinogens.

        • Nicotine is a SINGLE molecule. And your right, pure nicotine is not a carcinogen. Just highly addictive and toxic (a single drop of pure nicotine on your skin will kill you).

          Its the rest of the stuff mixed with it that is the problem.

          The smoke/mist from e-cigs and vaps still contain a witch's brew of other compounds that most rational people would prefer not to inhale or otherwise be exposed to if given the choice.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by I4ko ( 695382 )

            Demonstrably false. Pure Nicotine and Vitamin B3 are essentially the same. Oxidation (burning) of Nicotine produces B3 (nicotinic Acid). It is the other stuff, specifically the maois and tars in the tobacco that kill you, and in the case of vaping fluid the glycols and other plastics. It can actually be good for you https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]. But it is hard to get the pure stuff.

            • It (nicotine) is also not highly addictive in any sense beyond being easy to get. You could double-blind put people on doses of nicotine and then withdraw it with few consequences. They act like it's super addictive because so many people smoke and can't stop, but smoking addiction is more about habit/ritual/social aspects. It's about the same as caffeine in terms of physical addiction properties.

    • Re:But not marijuana? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @01:17PM (#59157938)

      The real irony is that cigarette taxes fund a huge portion of state's revenues now. That's what's fueling the hysteria about vaping at the state/federal level: they need a reason to tax it. For your own good. Oh, and for the children.

      • The real irony is that cigarette taxes fund a huge portion of state's revenues now. That's what's fueling the hysteria about vaping at the state/federal level: they need a reason to tax it. For your own good. Oh, and for the children.

        So why not just tax e-cigarettes and vape juice the same way cigarettes are taxed?

  • that companies are intentionally marketing to kids other than 'lol flavors=kids'? Like maybe actual evidence like documents or the like? I doubt any company would actually try to market to kids knowing it will get them shutdown.
    • Silly rabbit - Trix flavors are for kids!

      Frankly I think the law is stupid. There's been a recent trend in alcoholic drinks to add sweeter flavors to appeal to tastes from young adults (not children, young adults) - honey whiskeys and flavored vodkas and the like which is an extrapolation of sweet tropical rum drinks that were popular before that. These are flavors and tastes adults WANT but I don't see a movement to stop them.

      It's just that vaping is politically cool to hate at the moment.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by deKernel ( 65640 )

      Our great new Gubna is not encumbered with things like facts and figures when she makes her proclamations. She prefers to be on the cusp of "shooting from the hip" management.....*sigh*

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      that companies are intentionally marketing to kids other than 'lol flavors=kids'? Like maybe actual evidence like documents or the like? I doubt any company would actually try to market to kids knowing it will get them shutdown.

      Well as long as you doubt it [masslive.com], it must not be, right?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by novakyu ( 636495 )

      Do you really think the companies are coming up with a marketing slogan like: (in deep voice) "Strawberry flavored vapes. It's the new, cool, ADULT thing"?

      Sometimes you reveal your target audience by how you create and present the product. If you are putting in toys with a meal combo, you don't have to have kids in the ads for it to be obvious that those particular meal combos are for kids.

      • Where are the parents? Why limit freedom for everyone because some people can't raise their children? I don't need government to be my parent. Freedom means the freedom to make bad, unhealthy decisions if the individual chooses to.

      • By the argument, we should censor all Anime since they are obviously cartoons and cartoons are aimed at children.

        Adults like delicious flavors too. I vape caramel flavor juices.

      • Do you really think the companies are coming up with a marketing slogan like: (in deep voice) "Strawberry flavored vapes. It's the new, cool, ADULT thing"?

        Of course, there are still people whose attitude about anything is "our PARENTS do this??? Ewww!"

        Which would make the "ADULT thing" anathema to (some) kids...

    • Re:Is there any evidence (Score:4, Interesting)

      by nitehawk214 ( 222219 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @02:01PM (#59158172)

      Adults that were not smoking in their teens are unlikely to pick it up. Of course they have to aim it at kids. What marketing of nicotine or alcohol is not at least partially aimed at kids? Pictures of cool adults doing cool adult things. You want to be a cool adult, right?

      Yeah, there are adults stupid enough to be swayed by that kind of imagery. And I suppose there are plenty of adult smokers that only do so because they want to "fight the man". Yeah, it's downright stupid, but that doesn't make it any less likely.

      Now, I do think this particular law is a dumb way to try to avoid marketing to kids since it does little to address the actual problem.

    • It's been done before. Remember RJR's Joe Camel character [wikipedia.org]
    • 'lol flavors=kids' That is exactly the purpose of the ban. Nevermind the fact that flavored alcohol exists and flavored condoms exist, but nobody is saying those items are being marketed to children.

  • I predict a huge boom in sales at convenience stores just over the Indiana and Ohio borders.

    • I would think, rather, that online sales would go up....

      • Banning online sales is next. Not as easy to tax.

      • I would think, rather, that online sales would go up....

        Seriously, it's in the first sentence of the summary:

        Michigan is poised to become the first US state to ban online and retail sales of flavored e-cigarettes

        • So are they going to somehow intercept all parcel mail coming into the state so it can be inspected for contraband? That is about the only way they can prevent online sales (cash, checks, and money orders are still viable snail mail payment methods, even for online purchases.)

  • Is Michigan also going to pull all of the candy flavored alcohol off the shelves? I mean, there's whipped cream, green apple, cinnamon, pineapple, fruit punch, etc.

    Wait, could it be that many adults also happen to like candy flavors...it's almost like adults were kids once.

  • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • ... flavored ecigs at least have the upshot of not stinking an area up all to hell all like tobacco cigarettes do.

    I can tolerate walking near an ecig smoker if they are using one of the many nice flavors they seem to make for them, but regular cigarette smoke makes me nauseous to just be in the same vicinity.

    • Propylene glycol irritates my skin and second hand vape irritates my eyes and gives me a head ache.
       

    • I can tolerate walking near an ecig smoker if they are using one of the many nice flavors they seem to make for them,

      I think all that crap smells like an action figure's asshole, but actual cigarette smoke kicks my ass. I smoked for a long time, but I quit some years ago, and now it chokes me again like it did before I smoked. Vapes don't.

  • While flavouring is a problem, naively banning it outright is not only an attack on freedoms but also meaningless when people buy it unflavoured and put in flavours. I wonder what will be next. Spoilation putting in bad flavours?

    There is still a problem. In corner shops the flavourings are basically kiddie flavours. The same as ice cream, sweet and soft drink flavours. That should be stopped from being sold in convenience stores or at least kept behind the counter. There's a discrepancy with the law havi

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by Train0987 ( 1059246 )

      What's next you ask? Heavy taxation is next. That's always been the end-game for the anti-vape hysteria coming from gov't. Their budgets have grown to depend on cigarrette/tobacco taxes. Soon you'll be told that taxation is the compromise they can live with as a compromise.

  • That makes it pretty much certain that they are lying. Major financial contribution from the tobacco industry?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • "Big Tobacco" lol.. Did I just enter a time warp to 1986? There is no such thing as Big Tobacco any more, it's a thing old people, people on anti-smoking commercials, and squares say.

      • The tobacco companies want to control vaping, and they're happy for it to go through a period of selective and/or partial bans (every state won't ban them) if that leads to regulation. They love regulation, because it keeps down new, smaller players that might threaten their dominance. The cost of compliance is much harder to bear for smaller companies.

  • It doesn't seem like much of a ban if it is only for 6 months. Just buy up a 6 month supply and then you are good until the ban ends.

    Ok, I'm not a smoker so not sure what that would cost so is probably cost prohibitive for most.

    • Or even buy up a 12 month supply before the temp ban goes into effect, set aside half for yourself, then turn a tidy profit on the local gray market with the rest.

    • Ok, I'm not a smoker so not sure what that would cost so is probably cost prohibitive for most.

      If you're talking about refills, then it's kind of expensive. If you mean vape juice, and refilling your own tanks, then it isn't.

  • I find all of these arguments dumb. I'm 37. I don't vape or smoke, but if I did, you can be damned sure I'd be buying flavored stuff.

  • :fade in to a street corner and a shady guy standing there, looking shady: :nervous-looking kid walks up to shady guy:
    "Do you have the good stuff?" and looks around nervously :shady guy looks over nervous kid and then nods:
    "$50" :nervous kid pulls out wallet, wallet has the Driver License of someone else, goes through stolen wallet and finds $50 and hands it over: :camera fades to black

    Not to mention all the years kids have smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol anyway.....

  • Won't stand up to scrutiny in court.

    Remember when they tried banning menthols specifically, but it was deemed racist?

  • So they're banning menthol cigarettes too then? Lol, only kidding. Of course they're not. How about tobacco flavored vape juices, are those "flavored" and thus banned?

  • And flavored Alcohol!
    And steak sauce.

    • Humorously, there is probably more evidence of the ills of steak (to which one would presumably apply steak sauce) than there is of the dangers of vaping so this is a pretty good post.
  • ... only criminals will have flavored vape juice.

  • this legislation was paid for by the tobacco industry.

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