Trump Launches Space Command (cnn.com) 190
President Donald Trump announced Thursday the official establishment of the U.S. military's Space Command. CNN reports: Space Command will become the 11th combatant command, joining the ranks of U.S. Central Command, which oversees operations in the Middle East, and U.S. Special Operations Command, which oversees Special Operations Forces. The command will initially consist of just 287 personnel and its final location has yet to be determined. Its responsibilities will be transferred primarily from U.S. Strategic Command. The command's establishment comes as the U.S. has grown increasingly concerned about threats to its satellites, which are critical to military operations and commercial business.
While the command's establishment has received broad support, Trump also spoke Thursday about the creation of a U.S. Space Force, a military branch his administration wants to see established under the Department of the Air Force, similar to how the Marine Corps sits under the Department of the Navy. Space Command "will soon be followed -- very importantly -- by the establishment of the United States Space Force as the sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces," Trump said, adding that the Space Force will "organize, train and equip warriors to support Space Command's mission." NPR notes that the Space Command was first established by the Air Force in 1985.
"As the Cold War was heating up, it was meant to coordinate missile defense and surveillance efforts," reports Engadget. "But by 2002, military focus had shifted to terrorism, and Space Command was merged into the unified Strategic Command. It was refocussed to the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan."
While the command's establishment has received broad support, Trump also spoke Thursday about the creation of a U.S. Space Force, a military branch his administration wants to see established under the Department of the Air Force, similar to how the Marine Corps sits under the Department of the Navy. Space Command "will soon be followed -- very importantly -- by the establishment of the United States Space Force as the sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces," Trump said, adding that the Space Force will "organize, train and equip warriors to support Space Command's mission." NPR notes that the Space Command was first established by the Air Force in 1985.
"As the Cold War was heating up, it was meant to coordinate missile defense and surveillance efforts," reports Engadget. "But by 2002, military focus had shifted to terrorism, and Space Command was merged into the unified Strategic Command. It was refocussed to the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan."
I never thought I would say this.. but (Score:5, Funny)
SPACE FORCE! pew pew pew laz0rz!
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Yep, that's exactly the thought that went through Trump's head when they sold him this boondoggle.
I can picture them high-fiving each other as they drove away in a black SUV.
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Yep, that's exactly the thought that went through Trump's head when they sold him this boondoggle.
I can picture them high-fiving each other as they drove away in a black SUV.
It was all about ego and legacy with him; just like the Mexican Wall, and, forget science, just put a man on Mars by the end of my second term order to NASA (assuming he is re-elected).
He wanted his name associated with Space Force. We don't really have much justification for a force separate from the air-force, waste of extra personnel to do red tape stuff at the moment; but it boosted his ego to start a new force. Same thing drives all his decisions: ego.
Re:I never thought I would say this.. but (Score:5, Insightful)
There was a time the US didn't have an "air force" and having an air force sounded ridiculous, why have an air force, we already have planes with the army.
The space force idea isn't new, it's been floated by every president since the space race and the cold war, the air force reduced 'space' spending and focused on more planes. US military space spending has historically been essential for commerce, GPS, satellite communication and imaging is commercially lucrative but largely started, supported and protected by the Air Force.
Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson has some really great reasoning on why a space force is important, I'd recommend listening to some of his interviews, books or podcasts on the issue.
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There was a time the US didn't have an "air force" and having an air force sounded ridiculous, why have an air force, we already have planes with the army.
The space force idea isn't new, it's been floated by every president since the space race and the cold war, the air force reduced 'space' spending and focused on more planes.
Sure, there will eventually need to be a "space force"; there is a reason that other Presidents may have floated the idea and then abandoned the idea. Right now, it's not worth the red tape. A 200 man military branch, and half of those will probably be dedicated to dealing with the red tape of launching a military branch.
One day, space will be more significant; right now it is just a vanity project. Other Presidents threw away the idea when they realized it was a waste of money. Trump sees it as another
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Like returning to the moon, politicians won't do anything until they have to, which means a non-free nation like China or Russia goes there.
The error some commentators are making is to portray the non-US countries as some hapless victims who have no choice but to respond to US aggression. Yet it is the exact opposite. The US maintains a Pax Americana on the high seas, a useful service in places like the middle east and asian Pacific.
Dictatorships being there and controlling it is the problem free nations
Re:The context matters a lot. (Score:4, Insightful)
We really could do without yet another military pissing context, thank you very much.
Those historical "pissing context[sic]" spurred more technological advancements than any other time in human history. Landing men on the moon, and the incumbent advancements in rocketry, communications and telemetry, were all the result of a "pissing contest". The development of the jet engine was the result of a "pissing contest".
If the Space Command spurs a "pissing contest" that results in half of the advancements of the other "pissing contests", then it will be a badge of honor for President Trump.
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Ground Control to Major Don
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Except for the fact that "space force" sounds like a name from some cartoon that is supposed to be aimed at 7 year olds.
Not that this is any great surprise, considering the mentality of the current US president, but at least yeah.... it's perfect english.
I believe a better thing to have done would have been to come up with a simple acronym that makes it clear that it is a military branch for activities beyond the earth's atmosphere.... something like perhaps USED, US E
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I believe a better thing to have done would have been to come up with a simple acronym that makes it clear that it is a military branch for activities beyond the earth's atmosphere.... something like perhaps USED, US Extraplanetary Defense, or some such thing,
I would have gone with PUSSI Protective United States Space Initiative. Then we could have defended our country by grabbing space threats by the PUSSI.
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The Air Force or the Navy could handle the activities nicely
That "OR" is the reason a Space Command is needed. When lives are on the line while someone makes a split second decision, you don't want to be consulting your management matrix to figure out who should be making the decision.
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Did you miss a word in the post you responded to?
But the movie was about vehicles and equipment from 20 years ago, that we no longer use.
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Would you like to know more?
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To Insanity and Beyond!...
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Area 51 must have been doing something all these years
Re:You're a bit on the stupid side, aren't you? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah! If Trump hadn't done this, there'd be no spy satellites watching everything! And no ICBMs (what, you thought ICBMs only flew in atmosphere??), and no X37 spending the last two years in space!
Wait, what's that you say? We've had spy sats for 50 years now?? And ICBMs for even longer?? And so have the Russians, the Brits, the French, the Chinese?!? How can this be?! Everyone knows it's impossible for such evil to have existed pre-Trump! So he must've been planning this dastardly idea since he was a kid....
Seriously, we're talking a few hundred guys to manage the spy sats, not the creation of deathstars and interplanetary battleships. It's a purely bureaucratic change that allows for one more general officer to add a top-level command to his resume....
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ICBMs are weapons that are based on Earth one way or the other. They typically need to travel thousands of kilometers to get to their targets, although the recent US withdrawal from the short-range treaties changed that somewhat. It is this delay and the reaction time it provides that has kept the peace during dangerous warning and launch systems failures, of which there are many "too close" ones. You can educate yourself about some of those here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Putting advanced weaponry in
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Putting advanced weaponry in space, where it may be within seconds of its targets and provides little in terms of warning AT LEAST escalates dramatically the risk from a war due to accident.
How does that differ from having the exact same weapons roaming around under the sea within seconds of its targets? The exact same capability we've had since shortly after WWII? The difference being that they would be much easier to track in orbit.
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Which weapons are these, specifically? I don't recall any sea-based rocket that can reach Russian missile sites "in seconds".
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Just remember that you're essentially arguing against "orange man bad". Had Obama done this it would be the most brilliant idea ever to these people.
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Uh oh. Some bureaucrat is going to get a stapler and a paper clip.
The end is nigh! The end is nigh!
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It does. Particularly so as our economy becomes increasingly reliant on satellites and access becomes more cost efficient.
"warfighting domain" is not exclusive to Rambo shirtless in the jungle with a knife. Consider the warfighting domain of cyber security.
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This isn't funny.
The us have, for some reason decided that space is "their" thing and that they must keep other people away from it.
Congratulations, pew-pew guy.
Says the commentator who wants "socialized" space. And it's not like the US wants ALL space... just the free market space around the Earth. You act like the US is going to build a Death Star and hire Dick Cheney to run it. That might happen, but there would be rules and Darth Cheney would be expected to follow them, or face disciplinary actions like "no more blue jeans on Fridays for you, My Master".
Re:You're a bit on the stupid side, aren't you? (Score:5, Insightful)
I want peaceful space, not "socialized space". WTF is "socialized space" anyway?
"And it's not like the US wants ALL space... "
Yeah? I see brave talk about military "space superiority" all over the place. Like, here:
"We no longer have the luxury of treating space superiority as a given," Air Force Gen. John Raymond, the incoming US Space Command commander, told reporters at the Pentagon on Thursday."
just the free market space around the Earth.
An obvious lie, given the goal of the so-called "space command".
This is us trying to extend its imperialism into space, in blunt disregard to the rights of everyone else. Purely out of desperation, as I said already.
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Hate to break it to you, but space has already been militarized. You know all those satellites that companies have been putting up? Most of them are military, and not just the US military.
Less than 20% of satellites are military (Score:3)
Hate to break it to you, but space has already been militarized.
Duh. That was the entire motivation of the original space race.
You know all those satellites that companies have been putting up? Most of them are military, and not just the US military.
That is total bullshit [ucsusa.org] which you just made up. You just love trolling nonsense about space don't you? I'm surprised you didn't spout your idiotic "space nutter" catch phrase.
TLDR version is that the US has 901 satellites in orbit. 523 are commercial. 164 are government - non military. 176 are military. 38 are civil. That means less than 20% of satellites are military in nature.
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Do you really think they would publish those numbers?
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No it isn't, it is Trump trying to stick his on something, anything, he just need a new campaign trinket to sell to the gullible.
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Please do not support US imperialism, no good can come of it, or the twisted ideologies of the West!
Stop using all devices with GPS [wikipedia.org], as GPS was devised and created by and for the US military! Any civilian or commercial use of GPS empowers US imperialism!
US imperialism is responsible for the defeat of the sovereign island nation of Japan. The US military should stop all imperialism in Japan and return control back to the people of Japan, so that they can get their culture and economy back on track. Shame
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Hahahahaha. You think the space agreements have any power. Russia has a 'space force', China has a 'space force', India and France have a space force as does the UK and the US de-facto had one as well.
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Space agreements, like all other agreements, do have power.
In fact, there was a time in recent history when the US referred to its power to keep other parties involved in agreements and even keeping them most of the time as and important part of its "soft power".
Sadly, a lot of that got squandered away in the few years after the end of the Cold War, when hawks thought they had "won" and decided life is easier with coercion and bribery.
They turned out wrong, and a lot of that "soft power" thing was lost. You
More like re-launches (Score:5, Informative)
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In the meantime China, India and Russia now have the ability to shoot down satellites, with Brazil following closely. North Korea has a satellite and most Western European countries have the technical knowledge to develop space weapons if they ever wanted to.
So you think there should be space fighters up there ready to intercept all the anti satellite missiles that no one is launching at them? Are they unprotected before space farce turns up?
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Evil Euro-communist (Score:2)
and most Western European countries have the technical knowledge to develop space weapons if they ever wanted to.
Nah... we're too busy trying to increase our ranking on world happiness [weforum.org], sorry you'll have to play the military pissing game without us.
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But think of NSA contractors in different new uniforms.. with new a look "space" related mission patch for every project.
Isn't that what killed the Babylon-5 spin-off "Crusade"?
But, seriously, I do want to see the costu- ... er, the uniforms. And the salutes.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:More like re-launches (Score:4, Interesting)
Creating another bureaucracy within DoD is not stupid? And the U.S. already has a capable Navy and Air Force each of which could have housed the "new" space whizzies seeing as they already have fleets of their own. It's another stupid way to piss off taxpayers money, next they'll be telling us it will pay for itself.
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Hey now, this is the guy who ran on (among about 100 other contradicting positions) making government smaller and reducing our debt to $0 over his presidency. I'm sure this accomplishes both in one fell swoop.
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And the U.S. already has a capable Navy and Air Force each of which could have housed the "new" space whizzies seeing as they already have fleets of their own.
Hey now, this is the guy who ran on (among about 100 other contradicting positions) making government smaller and reducing our debt to $0 over his presidency.
You don't see how having one fleet vs two could reduce costs? Is the TDS impacting your cognitive functions that deeply?
Combatant Command not New Service (Score:2)
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Cursory research will show that the Space Force has actually been an idea for a long time now. It dates back to the end of the Clinton era - start of the Bush presidency. Look up the Rumsfeld comission. This was an explorartory group established in the late 90's to investigate near future developments in milspace and what the DoD needed to do about it. At the time Rumsfeld was retired, this was before Bush appointed him as Sec Def.
One of the recommendations from the bipartisan commission was the creation of
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You may be waiting quite a bit for impeachment or imprisonment. Just making random statements won't actually make it true. I mean, I keep saying I am getting ten million dollars tomorrow. Unfortunately, tomorrow never comes. Stupid time loop.
I have an idea! (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's combine all the responsibilities of several government organizations involving space and make a single organization that can meet all of them better!
Situation Before: There are 5 major government organizations with space as a focus.
Situation Afterward: There are 6 major government organizations with space as a focus.
The one founded by Donald Trump will become a single broom closet at NASA after Trump is gone.
Then again - after Trump is gone, very few people will view Trump as positive in any way, except as a method by which they harmed others, knowing he was the worst person they could put in that position.
Re:I have an idea! (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah yes, but now la Presidente Tweetie can go to political rallies in the farm belt and tell farmers, "forget that I've just peed on your markets and you'll never get them back, look at the Trump Space Force, here to protect you against foreign workers who now won't be here to pay for your social security...we'll be whacking SS next."
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Down on Earth's surface, each country claims certain 'area' as their's. Generally these areas are on and around the country and it's border.
How are they going to do this in space? It's hardly possible for anyone to claim area in space, if only because of how constant (not to mention, fast) everything is moving.
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Um, that's easy. Everything overhead is yours. Everything not overhead isn't. If you don't want other people having your stuff, make sure it doesn't go over their country.
It's just like with clouds. When they rain on your country, you get to keep that rain. But when they move over other countries, they get to keep it. The only difference is that we make satellites and we don't make clouds.
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Everything overhead is yours.
They'd have to use balloons for this. What a space 'force' that'd be.
The whole concept of "stationary" doesn't exist in space. Stuff moves FAST, or it "falls down".
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Before: you have one super large bureaucracy of nuclear weapons experts that has to manage all the space assets plus nuclear weapons while the intelligence services (NRO) does their own thing
Afterward: There is one smaller team of pure space experts focused on managing all military and intelligence space assets under a unified command
This is actually a good idea that has a lot of support from former Obama administration officials.
With what? A russian Rocket? (Score:3, Insightful)
*badabing* *badabum*
Team America #2 (Score:2)
Space Force under the Air Force? (Score:2)
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It isn't the U.S. Military with woodie for war, its the pols.
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Trump Launches Space Command ... (Score:2, Troll)
Outer Space Treaty (Score:4, Informative)
Does this not violate the 1967 "Outer Space Treaty" that emphasizes peaceful co-existence in outer space, signed by the US and other nations?
No, it does not. To quote Wikipedia: "The Outer Space Treaty does not ban military activities within space, military space forces, or the weaponization of space, with the exception of the placement of weapons of mass destruction in space."
launch code? (Score:2, Funny)
Did he say "Thunderbirds are GO!" or is that too foreign for him?
Re:launch code? (Score:5, Funny)
Did he say "Thunderbirds are GO!" or is that too foreign for him?
It's really too bad that Gerry Anderson [wikipedia.org] is dead.
Imagine if the US would have hired him to design the Space Force vehicles!
. . . and also the uniforms for the female staff. Google on "Gerry Anderson UFO purple hair". Tinfoil catsuits and purple hair!
Oh and:
Space Command will become the 11th combatant command
Most Combatant Commands only go up to 10. But this one goes up to 11!
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. . . and also the uniforms for the female staff. Google on "Gerry Anderson UFO purple hair". Tinfoil catsuits and purple hair!
The submarine "uniforms" were even more ridiculous. The guys wore string vests with nothing underneath... And so did the women. I'm kind of amazed they got away with it on TV in the late 60s, or maybe it wasn't so obvious until they re-released it in HD.
Apparently Sylvia, his wife, did the costumes and was convinced that within a decade wigs would be a standard part of military uniforms. Weirdly though only the Moon base staff had them, the submarine crews didn't.
see also Billy Gibbons (Score:2)
wigs would be a standard part of military uniforms
Old news. Really old. Check out the absolutely EPIC afros on these guys [wikipedia.org]! This signals extreme manly virility and instills terror in any potential foes. Plus wearing the pelt of such a fearsome animal as a bear on your head clearly notifies the world that you are a fierce warrior.
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Yay Kessler sydrome! (Score:2)
We cannot afford to let any of those OTHER nations have DANGEROUS, SPY SATELLITES up there!
So we will blow them up, and destroy our own satellites in the process with all the debris, and ensure nobody can launch any new ones for centuries to come!
GO TRUMP 2020!
So, the real question has been answered, then... (Score:2)
Ever since the "Space Force" was mentioned by Trump a year or so ago, inquiring minds spent sleepless nights asking the most pressing question of the day--will the military ranks in Space Force be those like the Army and Air Force, or like the Navy similar to the fictional Starfleet of the Trek universe. It appears that question has been answered. Since the Space Force would be under the auspices of the Air Force, it's likely that they will use that rank and insignia over the vastly preferred Starfleet-styl
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Colonel Kirk? Sounds like the dictator of a banana republic.
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Colonel Kirk? Sounds like the dictator of a banana republic.
Or at very least the deranged leader of a cannibalistic tribe of natives far up some jungle river.
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Actually, it's not necessarily true that ranks will follow the Air Force.
The USMC is part of the Navy and it follows Army/Air Force ranks (with colonels and generals and such) instead of Navy ranks (with captains and admirals and such)
relevant (Score:2)
"What kind of Wandervogel idiocy is it to run around all night in a marsh calling yourselves the Society for Space Navigation?" - Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Everyone is putting their... (Score:5, Informative)
...'witty' Trump jokes out there. Notice how nobody is actually discussing merits of the actual action.
The reality is, a space military department is WAY overdue because China and Russia ALREADY HAVE THEM. Simply pretending the world is how we *wish* it was, won't stop their weapons research. Just because we want space to be some magical gravity-free version of the Olympics doesn't mean other countries see it that way.
Neil Degrasse Tyson himself has defended it saying, "Just because it came out of Trump's mouth doesn't automatically make it a crazy thing."
https://www.rollingstone.com/t... [rollingstone.com]
You want something horrifying? Look into China (and Russia's) hypersonic missile projects. Missiles that travel so fast they _cannot_ be intercepted by physical means, and are quote, "starting a new arms race." You think nukes are bad? Imagine a nuke that can fly from China to anywhere in the world "in under an hour" and gives less than "3 minutes for a defense system to detect, identify, and respond."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0... [nytimes.com]
And that's just the weapon systems we KNOW the world is developing. We also KNOW that since 2007, China and Russia have been deploying "anti-satellite" missile systems.
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Errrm...we already have a Space Force, it's called the Air Force, shorten it to The Force if you like. This is just another layer of bureaucratic stink sap.
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And in 1946, we already had an air force. It was called the U.S. Army Air Forces. Then somebody decided that it should be a new branch of the military.
At some point, it becomes important enough that you want a bunch of people concentrating and specializing in that field.
Re: Everyone is putting their... (Score:2)
And in 1946, we already had an air force. It was called the U.S. Army Air Forces.
Actually you were late to the party on that one. Most other nations sperated their air forces out of the other services prior to WW2. The Brithos RAF was made independent in 1918 before the end of WW1.
However the collorary to your argument is that we never separated out the submarine service from the navy.
Besides the US already separated the "space force" from the USAF in 1958... We called it NASA and it was a civilian administration... One that Trump refunded.
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I wonder how many projects were shelved because the priorities of the Air Force was to push the F-35. Personally, I would like the government having a dedicated budget and chain of command for space for the military. I would like them to develop emergency plans and action. A big rock hurling itself towards the Earth is a matter of national security that I would hope the military has some kind of idea of what they would do and have the budget to further develop those responses.
Congress: Wat do you need AF?
AF
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It was originally founded in 1985. Are you calling Reagan a "child-emperor"?
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The US already had this (Score:4, Insightful)
The reality is, a space military department is WAY overdue because China and Russia ALREADY HAVE THEM.
The US has had one since 1982. It's called the Air Force Space Command [wikipedia.org] and it is the primary arm of the US military responsible for space operations. It employs approximately 38,000 people.
Just because we want space to be some magical gravity-free version of the Olympics doesn't mean other countries see it that way.
Don't be so naive. The US military has been the primary driver for the majority of space technology and research since the start of the space age. It has NEVER been some peaceful endeavor. The entire reason we went to the moon was a cold war pissing contest with Russia to ensure that the US didn't give up the high ground of space.
Neil Degrasse Tyson himself has defended it saying, "Just because it came out of Trump's mouth doesn't automatically make it a crazy thing."
Mr Tyson is correct about that. HOWEVER the evidence clearly shows that Trump saying it strongly increases the probability of it being crazy and/or false.
You want something horrifying? Look into China (and Russia's) hypersonic missile projects. Missiles that travel so fast they _cannot_ be intercepted by physical means, and are quote, "starting a new arms race."
You think the US isn't also working on this stuff [cnbc.com]?
Imagine a nuke that can fly from China to anywhere in the world "in under an hour" and gives less than "3 minutes for a defense system to detect, identify, and respond."
Umm, ICBMs have been able to hit any location on the planet in 30-40 minutes since the 1960s. This is nothing new. Hyper-sonic cruise missiles are problems for large boats like aircraft carriers but we've had ballistic missiles that cannot be well defended against for decades that travel MUCH faster.
Trumperbirds (Score:2)
Suggested location (Score:2)
The command will initially consist of just 287 personnel and its final location has yet to be determined.
How about ...... in space?
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Spacom! (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Starship Troopers (Score:2)
Co-ed showers FTW!
Motivation (Score:2)
Wait, did someone discover oil in space?
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Star League (Score:2)
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Please stop trump. Don't feed the beast.
FTFY
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