Mars Colonization Possible Through Sperm Bank In Space, Study Suggests (theguardian.com) 228
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: All-female astronaut crews could reproduce in space without the help of accompanying men, new research suggests. The study found that frozen samples of sperm exposed to microgravity retained similar characteristics to sperm samples kept on the ground, raising hopes that a sperm bank could one day be set up in space to help populate new worlds. This could prove interesting for female astronauts, amid reports that future missions to Mars may involve women-only space crews. Findings from the small preliminary study, involving sperm from 10 healthy donors, suggest that "the possibility of creating a human sperm bank outside of Earth" exists, according to the researchers.
One group of sperm samples used in the study had been exposed to microgravity with the help of a small aerobatic aircraft. The samples then underwent fertility screenings and were analyzed for concentration, motility and DNA fragmentation. No significant differences were detected between samples that had been given a ride and those that had stayed on the ground.
One group of sperm samples used in the study had been exposed to microgravity with the help of a small aerobatic aircraft. The samples then underwent fertility screenings and were analyzed for concentration, motility and DNA fragmentation. No significant differences were detected between samples that had been given a ride and those that had stayed on the ground.
is this a joke (Score:3, Insightful)
This story is a joke right?
Re:is this a joke (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:is this a joke (Score:5, Funny)
The reporter then makes the leap to all female mars colonies.
Well that's shattered my world view. I thought men were from mars and women were from venus.
Re:is this a joke (Score:5, Insightful)
All they proved is that sperm survives short periods of microgravity (doing parabolas in a small plane). Radiation will be a lot more problematic.
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Well that's shattered my world view. I thought men were from mars and women were from venus.
That's why we only need to send women to a future colony. The men are already there.
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So we can't comment on stories that we've modded...
But an editor can comment on a story that they published?!
What the fuck?
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Its not even reporting, I mean Stephensons Seveneves is not exactly news.
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I heard that place is also colored Red, and due to the size of its creator's ego it only has ~1/3 Earth's gravitas.
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TFA cites an unreleased NASA report, seen by astronaut Helen Sharman and revealed at a conference in 2017, that looked at attraction among space crews. The report recommended crews going to Mars be all of the same gender. TFA doesn't mention if they all need to be straight too.
To be fair, it is then a bit of a stretch to suggest that a Mars mission may involve all the colonists initially being women, and then sending them some sperm rather than just sending some dudes over there. I can see potential advant
Re: is this a joke (Score:2)
. I can see potential advantages to doing it that way, as in there would be no danger of relationship problems
Holy shit; you really don't have any clue about people, do you.
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You don't see a major issue by the offspring growing up without male role models?
I see someone tightly roped themselves to the current hypetrain, eh?
Re:is this a joke (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, that would be a major problem. But realistically I think it would be a long time before anyone thought about having children on Mars, at least by choice. They would want to observe the effects on adults over several years first, and experiment with plants and animals to observe how living an entire lifetime in 38% of Earth gravity affects them.
Plus raising children is extremely labour intensive, requires a child-proof habitat and significant resources. By the time it's feasible it's hard to imagine that there wouldn't be a significant number of adults of all genders around.
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WTF? No one is going to be "living on Mars". Do people really still believe this?
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Why would having a same-sex crew preclude also have a loving family?
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The child's biological mother would be there, just not the father. Not ideal perhaps, but I don't think that a non-biological parent is necessarily any worse than a biological one. The main issue would be the lack of male role models.
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So, replace the divorce courts with family-size gas chambers? You could use the same gas chambers to dispose of the families of parents who die of disease, misadventure or homicide as well. For parents who separate but don't die, what do you recommend? Public flogging until they get back together to stop the pain, or into the gas chamber?
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Because we just made the argument that the same sex crew would be straight to limit relationship spats.
So there'd be Mom, and a bunch of Aunts.
No Male role models for the kid. At all. They'll have some issues.
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That doesn't seem to preclude the parent and other crew loving the child though. I mean plenty of same sex couples offer children a loving environment. I love my cat and we aren't even the same species.
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For humans, it's mainly of interest for if you want to launch an interstellar mission on a generation ship. E.g. where minimizing mass (e.g. crew and crew consumables / closed-loop life support / initial ISRU hardware) is absolutely critical and follow-up missions will be few and far between. The minimal crew for an interstellar generation ship is something like ~3 small women (plus pre-sexed cryopreserved embryos) of varying ages, in order to statistically ensure that unexpected deaths / infertility / lac
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"interstellar mission on a generation ship."
What? Space nutter alert. Knows nothing about Physics: check. Watches Star Trek: check. Fan of Elon Musks Powerpoint presentations: check.
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Absolutely my response too. The damned things float in a fluid environment - what position would you start from in thinking they'd be affected by microgravity? Or, for that matter significantly increased gravity? Hell, put a bucket of bull semen into a centrifuge and see how much pounding it needs to drop it's fertility rate. A competent dairy farmer could give you your first estimate within a season.
Re: is this a joke (Score:3)
Not to mention that they were "exposed" to microgravity and were ok.
The idea that a momentary exposure to 0g proves anything is farcical, particularly when any garden-variety porno's arcing jets of cum suggest that encountering 0g isn't all THAT uncommon for semen ...granted, their subsequent fertility isn't usually important in that context.
I rather expect that the sleeting waves of radiation in space are more of a hazard, anyway.
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Actually, it points out that frozen sperm can survive going for a ride in a small airplane.
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...when you really wish you had mod point. :-)
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I wonnder if the colony will need a pool cleaner. I can grow a mean Tom Selek moustache
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The real issue is not gravity, it's cosmic radation. Frozen sperm won't be able to repair their DNA (not that I expect regular sperm can, either).
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The reporter then makes the leap to all female mars colonies.
Not all female colonies, all female crews.
Once the colony is set up and babies starts to pop out about half of them will be males.
Indeed, and an all female crew might be beneficial. It takes a long time to go to Mars... a long time that you don't want any hot-headedness. Naturally, everyone is unique, but mental disorders are higher in men, suicidal tendencies are higher in men, testosterone, and it's link to aggressiveness, is higher in men.
Men are obviously stronger, and more likely to have extreme levels of intelligence (although on average across the population it evens out); but a female crew may be more stable. An all female
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You've been reading a bit too much "research" coming out of the feminist echo chamber.
Re:is this a joke (Score:5, Informative)
NASA did a study on crew composition. Mixed sex crews were more efficient than all male crews. All female crews were "unstable."
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All female crews, "unstable [youtube.com]"? That can't be...
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do you have a link to that research? I'd very much like to read it.
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I would as well because I wasn't able to find it. Setting aside what they did or didn't actually research or whether they'd spin the results in that manner, it wouldn't surprise me.
It makes sense. Males have evolved to be independent wanderers with one male able to seed many females and propagate the species but the genders as a pairing have evolved together. It also wouldn't surprise me if the "unstable" thing isn't applicable to females who have and actively nurture children but I seriously doubt you'll f
Re:is this a joke (Score:4, Informative)
https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4411.pdf
Starting at page 125
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Thanks !
Re:is this a joke (Score:4, Informative)
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The author is, but the concept isn't. A sperm bank could help avoid the founder affect. Though even better would be a sperm + egg bank, or embryo bank, and limit the amount of naturally conceived children until a baseline diversity was achieved.
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Naturally, everyone is unique, but mental disorders are higher in men, suicidal tendencies are higher in men, testosterone, and it's link to aggressiveness, is higher in men.
That's why you don't take average men from the street, you mean. These reasons do not apply to properly selected and trained astronauts. Also, you don't want men too young. Get them a little older, when the sharp edges have worn off a bit. However, surviving a youth full of risky behavior is a good experience, and will help people to stay calm and rational in life or death emergencies.
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Indeed, and an all female crew might be beneficial. It takes a long time to go to Mars... a long time that you don't want any hot-headedness. Naturally, everyone is unique, but mental disorders are higher in men, suicidal tendencies are higher in men, testosterone, and it's link to aggressiveness, is higher in men. ... a female crew may be more stable
That the famous pop psych I keep hearing about from the US, right?
and more likely to have extreme levels of intelligence (although on average across the population it evens out);
You're not sending averages, so that's a moot point.
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You know, we joke about this, but the other day my sister was telling stories about a counseling group she's in with five other women. Apparently, one lady made the cardinal sin of "never showing up to the outside lunches, and doesn't talk enough about herself", so everyone hates her. She also has cancer.
There was a long story about how they had removed this horrible horrible criminal woman from the invite mailing list because she never showed up, a fight over why she wasn't on it, and various catty comment
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I saw a spoof of some nuclear sub movie with an a female crew. Once those cycles are in sync it's Armageddon. Why? Because it just is!
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Male embryos will be aborted. There is no need for them, if viable sperm exists.
No need? Then who's going to get up in the middle of the night to investigate the strange noise?
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This guy? [cbsnews.com]
Lol. Once the sexbots are advanced enough (Lothario model 9.0) to investigate suspicious nocturnal noises, and kill spiders, we'll all just be fighting for fifty jobs down at the sperm farm.
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Why would you be fighting for a job down at the sperm farm? Do you actually want to have offspring?
I'd be willing to compete for the job for two reasons: In this dystopian future, it's the only job left for a male person; and, I believe the offspring that carry my genetic traits would be statistically less likely to doom the whole enterprise to a 200,000 year reboot.
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Male embryos will be aborted...
...because otherwise they would grow up to be (ptui!) men.
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They're not destined for "baby machines" in space. Pregnancy is physically demanding. The extra food and water resources for the mere pregnancy, along with the poor productivity of the mother while she's increasingly pregnant is extremely expensive. The cost of an _infant_ who is not serving the direct mission is overwhelming. And _no_ humans have ever been gestated, or born, in space. Also, at last look, no mammals have become pregnant or given birth, or been raised from birth in space. It would be an in
Mars needs Moms!!!!! (Score:1)
No men needed. That takes a lot of the fun out of it doesn't it?
What (Score:5, Insightful)
One group of sperm samples used in the study had been exposed to microgravity with the help of a small aerobatic aircraft.
They mounted a vial of sperm on a mini "Vomit Comet," went flying for a bit, and then compared it to a "ground-based" sample? Seriously?
They really didn't have the budget to fly it up to the ISS properly, did they?
I suppose this is better than getting a lab assistant to "simulate microgravity" via vigorous shaking...
Re:What (Score:4, Funny)
Why would they have needed to fly it up to the ISS?
It's not like there aren't already guys on the ISS, and they probably have enough spare time to...umm...keep track of the samples. Yeah, that's what they'd be doing....
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I suppose this is better than getting a lab assistant to "simulate microgravity" via vigorous shaking...
That's how they got the sperm sample in the first place.
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For this experiment, the vigorous shaking occurred a bit earlier...
To boldly go (Score:2)
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That accurately sums up Kirk's mission.
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That accurately sums up Kirk's mission.
Not really, Kirk got the women he ran across. He didn't have to please himself, if you know what I mean.
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Someone made a list of the women Kirk slept with and it was actually a lot fewer than you might assume. At least from what we saw on screen it appears that most of the hot young ladies of the week he met didn't actually end up in bed with him.
Who knows how many he ended up cranking out over a missed opportunity.
Stupid (Score:2)
What does putting sperm briefly (measured in MINUTES) in microgravity have to do with anything? We already know there is no effect. There seems to be an infinite supply of money spent on stupid people doing "research".
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Wrong. No one is going to be living on Mars EVER. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a nutter. Radiation and differences in gravity alone will assure of that.
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Oh right. "Because one thing is possible, all things are possible". Why not test out your theory and jump off the Eiffel Tower?
Microgravity? For how long? (Score:2)
One group of sperm samples used in the study had been exposed to microgravity with the help of a small aerobatic aircraft.
That is all fine and good with these aerobatic aircrafts providing microgravity for minutes at a time before going back up. I can see a couple of problems with this approach, though: 1) The accumulated microgravity time is negligible compared to a Mars trip, unless the Mars trip would be mostly under constant 1G acceleration, which seems to be beyond our current capabilities; and 2) The bigger danger would probably be from chromosomal and chemical changes due to the much higher radiation levels during such
It is all fine and good... (Score:2)
...until the first spider shows up on the Mars Colony.
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OMG WTF! There's not going to be any Mars Colony. Why do people still believe in this fantasy nonsense?
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There will be a Mars Colony. Musk promised.
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There will be a Mars Colony. Musk promised.
He promised an autopilot for your car.... Sure sounds possible but the devil is in the implementation details... Reality sucks man.
Lesbian Martian Astronauts... (Score:2)
Re:Space XXX (Score:2)
Ark Fleet Ship B (Score:2)
Mars Needs Women (Score:3)
Please excuse me, someone had to say it from the 1967 movie.
But, Mars needs Women! (Score:2)
Human beings are a disease (Score:2)
"Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure"
Matrix.
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no, mankind-hating humans are a disease. Mankind is more important than minerals, plants and beasts.
Storage space wasted if all female crew (Score:2)
And won't be able to bring along any mason jars.
nominate (Score:2)
We have a volunteer (Score:2)
It seems that this guy [www.cbc.ca] might be eager to help out.
Why bother with sperm? (Score:2)
The experimentation with creating true genetic offspring of two females [popsci.com] by pulling the DNA from one female's cell, changing or deleting a few imprinted genes, and inserting it into an egg from the other female to "fertilize" it, has already succeeded in producing healthy mice. Within a few years, it should be possible for women to have healthy children together without sperm. This will almost certainly happen before any mass movement to other planets.
In short, there is no need for either the sperm or the me
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There will never be a mass movement to other planets. After the very first phase of construction (up to a couple of hundred people-on-board), the construction crews will provide their own population. The amount of emigration from Earth to the rest of the Solar system will be a few thousands, at most. The entry tickets will be either brains or money.
In space everyone can hear you cream (Score:2)
"That's one small jizz for a man..."
The Cum and Joke Mines of Mars (Score:2)
not the problem (Score:2)
the radiation levels in interplanetary space and on mars are too high for anyone considering breeding. spacecraft can't and don't shield against it. we don't have the propulsion systems that could push anything with sufficient shielding.
And it seems to be necessary to repeat on this site, that the ISS is protected by the Earth's magnetosphere, being in low orbit.
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Yeah, the ISS isn't really a space station. It's not in space.
Hentai plot? (Score:2)
But suddenly an accident occurs and the sperm bank is lost. Then a young lad, engineer stowaway is found on board and the quota must continue.
Sci-Fi was there first (Score:2)
"Houston, Houston, Do You Read?" by James Tiptree Jr. (James Tiptree is a pseudoname for Alice Sheldon)
Best to read it, but if you want the spoiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Like it or not, there's more to men than just their sperm.
Such as children, especially young men, needing a man to teach and guide them in ways that a woman cannot. Even if there is a man in the picture, but this man has no biological relationship to the child, there is an inherent biological bias in our construction where we don't treat another's child quite like we do our own.
There is all kinds of data on this from single mothers, adopted children, sperm donors, and so on to back this up. Building a colony from single mothers that didn't make some connection t
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The mothers, obviously.
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Yea, like who will be there to open the pickle jars
The easiest solution would be to just give up eating pickles in space... and kill all the spiders on the space ship before leaving earth.
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OK, I'm going to say it.
Please don't....
IF the idea is to colonize the destination, this idea makes perverse sense, until such time as we can grow a baby in a petri dish. Toss a bunch of young women in a space ship, get them to the destination while they are still in child bearing shape and have them punch out as many kiddos as they can while they are still alive. Forget the ethical and moral implications and this sure gets the species the quickest foot hold with enough genetic diversity to make a go of building a stable populati
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Less likely to die young
Less likely to kill themselves, or other,
Less likely to develop mental illnesses.
Less likely to cause aggression.
These are averages for normal life on Earth. There's no guarantee that these properties will be the same in a highly stressful environment such as a space capsule or a Mars base. Also, you wouldn't send average people. You would select the top 0.1% suitable candidates, and then train them well.
As far as weight, you can also pick short men, and get a higher muscle mass as a bonus (note that light weight jockeys are predominantly men)
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You would select the top 0.1% suitable candidates,
That would be men. The top or bottom 1% of people in many metrics are mostly men, 0.1% more so, as they exhibit higher variance. Same for other mammalian species.
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The Moon has no effect on menstrual cycles.
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Could've swore I read from reliable sources that it did, but looking now can't find anything scientific that shows a definitive link.
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More (surmountable) challenges mean success is all the sweeter.
Incidentally, Dr. Robert Zubrin (of Mars Express fame) recently said that the radiation inside a Mars habitat would lead to an increased cancer risk lower than that of the air pollution in Houston, so he joked it would actually improve astronauts' health to send them to Mars.
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frozen sperm in fully shielded container to avoid radiation issues
You're not going to fully shield it. You'll just get an accumulated high-Z GCR dose.
Eggs inside female astronauts should are already mature and should be much safer against radiation than sperm which is produced and stored outside the body in the testes.
"Inside"? "Outside"? There's practically no difference here.