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Science

Up To 25 Cups of Coffee a Day Still Safe For Heart Health, New Study Says (cnn.com) 140

Posted by msmash from the don't-feel-bad dept.
Coffee lovers might be able to breathe a sigh of relief -- a new study found that drinking even large amounts of the caffeinated beverage won't stiffen arteries and harm your heart. From a report: Aficionados have been getting mixed messages about their favorite drink, with some research suggesting that drinking coffee can improve health while other studies advise people to cut down on their consumption. Previous studies suggested that coffee can cause a stiffening of the arteries, putting pressure on the heart and increasing the likelihood of stroke or heart attack. But a new study, funded in part by the British Heart Foundation, found that drinking five cups of coffee a day was no worse for the arteries than drinking less than one cup. The study of more than 8,000 people across the United Kingdom also found that even those who drank up to 25 cups a day were no more likely to experience stiffening of the arteries than someone drinking less than a cup a day.
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Up To 25 Cups of Coffee a Day Still Safe For Heart Health, New Study Says More

Up To 25 Cups of Coffee a Day Still Safe For Heart Health, New Study Says

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  • If you're drinking 25 cups of coffee a day (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:05AM (#58712804)
    Then you likely have more pressing issues than whether or not such consumption has long-term implications for the health of your cardiovascular system.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      Kidney stones. That many cups of coffee may not kill you but the kidney stones all that caffeine would defiantly praying for a swift death.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The real danger is that you start vibrating so fast you phase through the floor and end up in China.

        • Beats going through TSA checkpoints and airplane food.

        • I kinda think you'll end up near the middle of the planet.

        • It's funny. In Sci-Fi shows I always wondered how people that can "phase" themselves through a wall don't just fall right through the floor, and if the bottoms of their feet (even one molecule thick?) maintain integrity, how the hell they still manage to "stroll" through a wall? I don't see them doing a "shuffle" to slice through the wall and if they did, wouldn't it cut some nice foot-width slivers through the wall, electrical pipes and anything else in it?

          lol

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by pyrrho ( 167252 )

            obviously a small bit of foot skin is peeled off. science. logic!

          • Its also amazing those same people are able to "phase" their clothes as well. You never saw Kitty Pryde nude after she went through a wall.

          • That's because writers aren't scientists, and never want to think about that sort of thing.

            Although it might be amusing to have a sci-fi show where they had people leap toward a wall, phase out, go through the wall, and then phase back in before they hit the ground. When training to do it, newbies would smack into the wall, get stuck in it, etc.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by barakn ( 641218 )

            The phasing makes them out of synch with gravity as well as matter. Its momentum that carries them through the wall, the only reason they appear to continue walking is because their primitive ape brains tell them they need to keep moving their feet. One could cease walking and strike some sort of pose, perhaps a dab, at the onset of phasing and emerge on the other side in the same pose looking really stupid because dabbing is not cool, people.

      • Re:If you're drinking 25 cups of coffee a day (Score:5, Informative)

        by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:41AM (#58713014)

        Kidney stones. That many cups of coffee may not kill you but the kidney stones all that caffeine would defiantly praying for a swift death.

        Actually the opposite: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
        You have read some junk science or came to invalid conclusions yourself.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by EvilSS ( 557649 )
          Yep, this has been supported with multiple studies [nih.gov].

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jwhyche ( 6192 )
            This is actually good to know. But I'll tell you what, nothing wakes or sobers you up faster than getting up one morning and pissing blood. "Humm. Maybe i need to get that checked."

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by jwhyche ( 6192 )

              Redundant.... LOL. Perfect.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by EvilSS ( 557649 )
              Or that "My god did I get stabbed and not realize it" feeling followed by "I'm just going to sit here so I don't run to the toilet and not pee every 2 minutes". My first and only (so far) kidney stone was a barrel of laughs. No blood though.

      • defiantly praying

        Them darn kidney stones just wouldn't cooperate!

    • Damn, I'm going to have to cut back by two cups per day!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Why would you? Effects decrease massive with daily dosage. For best effects, you need to usually not drink coffee at all and only use it when you want a targeted effect for a short time.

    • My take this is a flawed study also interpreted by someone who doesn't understand science.

      The conclusion is suspect, IMHO. How the heck can you only study people without cardiovascular disease and legitimately conclude, anything about cardiovascular disease? Their actual conclusion is "In this large middle-aged cohort without cardiovascular disease, moderate to heavy coffee consumption was not associated with significant changes in arterial stiffness measured by AoD and ASI compared with individuals who d

  • Die from other causes (Score:5, Funny)

    by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:07AM (#58712810) Homepage

    Sure, 25 cups of coffee won't kill you, at least not before the lack of sleep does. I wonder at what number you start seeing the green smurfs dancing on the dashboard?

    • I wonder at what number you start seeing the green smurfs dancing on the dashboard?

      About 35 cups. On a cross country driving trip many years ago, my mother got sick, so I went to this airport in the middle of nowhere. No flights for two days. Left started driving to a larger city. At this point I have been up for around 24 hours. I missed a turn and didn't notice. Ended up driving for almost two days. Coffee was my only friend. But hallucinations were not uncommon, the last few hours.

      • To quote P.J. O'Rourke:

        The only problem you'll run into is that after you've been driving for two or three days you start to see things on the road - great big scaly things twenty feet high with nine legs. But there are very few great big scaly things with nine legs in America any more, so you can just drive through them because they probably aren't really there, and if they are really there you'll be doing the country a favor by running them over.

    • Re:Die from other causes (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:32AM (#58712944)

      Sure, 25 cups of coffee won't kill you, at least not before the lack of sleep does. I wonder at what number you start seeing the green smurfs dancing on the dashboard?

      While almost everyone thinks that coffee is linked to not sleeping (and in many people that link is true); in many more people coffee does not impact sleep. In fact, for me, I find a cup before bed is soothing and helps me sleep. It is all down to how fast your body metabolizes caffeine.

      Caffeine is a lot like alcohol in that, we "expect" a certain reaction, so we exhibit signs of that reaction even when it has a mental rather than a biological cause.

      Two example studies: One involved two "test" parties with an open punch bowl; one contained alcohol the other didn't but they told to test subjects that it DID contain alcohol. In both parties both groups of participants reported having symptoms of drinking alcohol. Several people in the non-alcoholic party reported getting drunk.

      There was another study I read about where people were given a non-caffeinated beverage and were told it was caffeinated... they reported more alertness and inability to sleep. The control group that wasn't told it was caffeinated didn't have the same reaction.

      Sure, Caffeine and alcohol DO effect us legitimately- but half the effect is in our minds and nothing to do with the drugs.

      • I think it's about intake. That drunk study is interesting, I have observed regular social drinkers know their limits so I have seen friends behavior act tipsy more based of what others at the table than how much they drank. Not to say it doesn't have an effect, I just think they should redo the study in both social situations and alone with some non interactive media.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        In people with ADHD, stimulants often have the opposite effect (in low doses). It helps them relax.
        So if you get relaxed instead of jittery after a strong cup of coffee, you may have ADHD, or were possibly suffering from caffeine withdrawal.

      • This! I know people who don't drink coffee after lunch because it "messes up" their ability to sleep. Me I have a steady intake throughout the day. I practically always have a double espresso after dinner, as do most of my coworkers and often drink an espresso at 11at night before bed. I actually modified my espresso machine to make it quieter so I wouldn't wake the already sleeping people in the house.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      If you are used to 25 cups a day, they will have little effect on sleeping. Of course, you need to drink them without sugar.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      People build up a tolerance to caffeine pretty quickly. Unless you jump in feet first with 25 cups (don't expect that to go well) it probably has no effect on their sleep patterns.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Sure, 25 cups of coffee won't kill you, at least not before the lack of sleep does. I wonder at what number you start seeing the green smurfs dancing on the dashboard?

      Look, I drive wherever the Smurfs tell me to (although if one has turned green I generally do a mini-Heimlich as they're choking on something).

  • I can believe a bit of coffee is good for you, it improves your mood and makes you a bit more productive without too many bad side-effects so common sense would suggest that yes a little probably is beneficial. I think 25 cups of coffee might be too much. Think about it, would you normally drink 25 cups of soda, milk or even water?

    • I drink 1 US gallon of filtered water each day. 25 cups is over 1.2 gallons.

      And I believe attempting to drink 25 cups of milk in a day would result in horrific gastrointestinal issues. It would be interesting to watch someone try it though.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Falos ( 2905315 )

      Things 25 cups of coffee every day does not do!
      - It won't harden your arterial walls!
      - It won't damage your ears or hearing! (we did a study on this and announced the results, implying a discovered benefit to the drink)
      - It won't reduce your car's gas mileage! (we did a study on this and announced the results, implying a discovered benefit to the drink)
      - It won't lower your local property value! (we did a study on this and announced the results, implying a discovered benefit to the drink)
      - It won't worsen y

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cederic ( 9623 )

        - It won't hamper your infantry forces crossing the alps!
        [...]
        Things 25 cups of coffee every day might do.
        - Kill you

        We may differ slightly on our definition of 'hamper'.

    • The study didn't say 25 cups is good for you, or even that it's ok for you. It only looked at the effect of coffee on artery stiffness. That's it. Don't extrapolate it to mean what it doesn't.

  • Study participants drinking 25 cups a day (Score:3)

    by nwaack ( 3482871 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:11AM (#58712836)
    Who the heck did they find to participate in this study that regularly drinks 25 cups of coffee a day?!? That's insane!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by schwit1 ( 797399 )

      This guy
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Who the heck did they find to participate in this study that regularly drinks 25 cups of coffee a day?!? That's insane!

      If I'm going to drink 25 cups of coffee a day, I want a urinal installed underneath my desk so I don't have to keep getting up... Oh, and a lock on my office door so I don't have to wear pants.

    • Who the heck did they find to participate in this study that regularly drinks 25 cups of coffee a day?!? That's insane!

      More interesting, from TFA:

      People who consumed more than 25 cups of coffee a day were excluded, ...

  • That's bullshit! (Score:3)

    by ChatHuant ( 801522 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:17AM (#58712868)

    What, I'll have to cut my consumption in half?

  • Holy shit, I'm wired after 3 cups. I can't imagine 25.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Caffeine effects decrease strongly with daily intake.

    • Holy shit, I'm wired after 3 cups. I can't imagine 25.

      From TFA:

      People who consumed more than 25 cups of coffee a day were excluded, ...

      So... imagine that.

  • Cocaine, it's runnin' all 'round my brain. I can't drink coffee, the caffeine from one cup would keep me awake for days. I used to drink it when I worked night shift to be able to do things during the day but now it's off my menu. Still like the aroma.
  • It will kill your teeth but if you don't mind getting them all replaced then go for it. Also, as mentioned before the dreaded KIDNEY STONES!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      A) It will do no such thing
      B) Why would your dentist be unhappy about more business?

    • It will kill your teeth but if you don't mind getting them all replaced then go for it. Also, as mentioned before the dreaded KIDNEY STONES!

      You're mostly wrong on both counts.

      It will stain your teeth, but if you're drinking your coffee black it may actually be helping your teeth. Coffee contains chemicals that break up plaque. Drinking coffee actually helps keep your teeth clean... yellow, but clean. Also if you're drinking caffeinated coffee, that's been linked to REDUCING KIDNEY STONES by 10%. It's only decaf that increases your chance of kidney stones.

      The kidney stone myth came from the fact that coffee makes you more likely to pee, peop

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "8,000 people across the United Kingdom"

      Get your big book of british smiles jokes in while you can.

  • Peer review? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @11:30AM (#58712938)

    The only question I have is when reporters plan on waiting for papers to be peer reviewed before they start screaming bullshit from the rafters?

    One of the reasons why people look so negatively on science in general is because reports are in such a burning rush to get stories out that they can't wait for information to be actually verified, resulting in us being constantly peppered with conflicting reports about this or that being bad/good/bad/good/bad/good for you.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Peer review is largely broken, unfortunately.

    • Studies on caffeine consumption, along with how many eggs a week are safe to eat? It's just the food version of cold-fusion.

      • Studies on caffeine consumption, along with how many eggs a week are safe to eat? It's just the food version of cold-fusion.

        The good news is... we may not have a mass-market cure for AIDS or cancer, but if coffee were to get AIDS we'd probably have enough research done that we could cure coffee tree AIDS.

    • Yup! [youtube.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by skids ( 119237 )

      I have a solution for that: more studies! So many studies the half-ass journalists can't keep this up.

      I'm half serious actually. If we want to realize the benefits of machine learning on large data sets, we need to start collecting data using modern, automated techniques rather than self-reporting... now! Really for the good of future generations... and perhaps even themselves, everyone should be monitoring everything they eat, drink, and do, along with a lot of biometrics.

      It's just a tragedy we cannot,

    • The only question I have is when reporters plan on waiting for papers to be peer reviewed before they start screaming bullshit from the rafters?

      Exactly. Sometimes I forget that acceptance of papers to non-CS/EE conferences are not peer-reviewed. That's not to say that the CS/EE conference peer review process is wonderful, but the review process imparts a modicum of credibility to accepted papers.

      For this paper, the first thing that popped out to me was why one of the three comparative groups wasn't composed of non-coffee drinkers. That would seem to be an obvious reference group. Yet, there's only an "under 1 cup" group. A conclusion that heav

    • This isn't about peer review, this is about people treating the results of a single study as though they were conclusive. You almost never establish anything with a single study, you do dozens of studies and you look at the results in aggregate. Even if the aggregate results are clearly positive, some of those studies will still have negative results due to random chance. That's fine, that's not a contradiction, but it becomes a problem when people start talking about single studies as though they were conc
  • I don't even have to ask because I know I'm far from being the only person who doesn't trust 'studies' anymore. Too many of them amount to clickbait for people and organizations with money to invest in research projects, or are just plain bad science to begin with, and by the way that shit has got to stop: there were already too many people who, for either reasons of their 'religious' beliefs, or just plain ignorance, did not trust 'science' for any reason, and so many shitty 'studies' aren't helping. Memo
    • People who don't understand statistics just get confused by studies. That is the key to understanding modern science.
      • 'Understanding statistics' has nothing to do with anything when this week Study 'A' says one thing and next week Study 'B' contradicts it completely. Meanwhile I stand behind what I said before: too many of these so-called 'studies' are low quality at best, nigh-unto fraud at worst, and all the above are about attracting attention, not 'science' or 'truth'.
        • It does a lot, because studies never say, "item x is good for you." They say, "we measured correlation within a margin of error." And in this case, it was only about artery hardness, not long-term health outcomes.
        • It does a lot, because studies never say, "item x is good for you." They say, "we measured correlation within a margin of error." (in this case, it was only about artery hardness, not long-term health outcomes)
          • I don't know why you bothered repeating yourself when you're wrong both times. They post this crap knowing people either can't or won't bother 'understanding' it anyway, and that includes VCs and their chequebooks, therefore functionally speaking most of these so-called 'studies' are clickbait crap intended to attract media attention and vacuum up money. This isn't how science should behave.
  • Was it sponsored by Starbucks?

    Or by the Organization of Coffee Exporting Countries?

  • Then you probably get health problems from too much fluid intake. Also note that this is probably European strength coffee, not the massively watered down US stuff.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] They have found the lab security camera footage of the test subject drinking 25 cups of coffee a day.

  • is if regular caffeine brings on early damage to cartilage in joints from a caffeine induced reduction of water in the cartilage. Especially when combined with long walks or jogging. So hip and nee joints in particular.

    • is if regular caffeine brings on early damage to cartilage in joints from a caffeine induced reduction of water in the cartilage. Especially when combined with long walks or jogging. So hip and nee joints in particular.

      I haven't heard about that... I drink a lot of coffee and I have both hip AND knee joint problems. I always blamed it on playing indoor soccer on astroturf (which is when I first started having problems).

      Does caffeine really change cartilage composition? Or is that just a theory of yours?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      Coffee is net positive as far as hydration goes. You do not offset the water intake with the diuretic effect. The whole caffeine causes dehydration is a myth.

  • THANK GOD, three cup margin! woooot

  • ...anymore.

    They drink double-caramel-triple-sugar-extra-cream Venti Fuckachinos. And all that shit, DOES harm and/or kill you prematurely.

    You might be able to find 1 person out of 1,000 who knows what black coffee even tastes like.

    Pointless study, is pointless.

  • Juan Valdez nods with approval.

  • Knew someone who drank 20 - 25 cups a day and while that may not significantly stiffen arteries, it definitely wrecked havoc on his nerves.
    This guy was in shape, strong and wasn't someone to sit on the couch all day... but
    He was always super high strung and nervous.
    & died of a heart attack in front of his wife and daughter.
    It was determined the stress on his heart from being high strung and nervous all the time were likely the cause.

    I think the up to part is one of those duh things. It could be 1 cup fo

  • on the effects of 100 cups of coffee [youtube.com]

  • So, my 12 pack a day habit of Mt. Dew is good to go? I'm a virtual lab rat for them....age 60, and drinking it steadily since my 20s w/o issue.

  • My doctor has been harassing me for years about my caffeine intake, warning me that my heart is going to explode. I never believed her and entirely ignored her advice; now I can show her this article the next time I go see her. Yes! Victory is mine!

    I mean, it's an entirely hollow victory, since I just recently decided to drastically reduce my caffeine intake for an entirely different reason*... but still!

    (* I got tired of the frequent mad dashes to the bathroom... and you definitely don't want to know the

  • That stuff will kill you long before the coffee can.

  • I used to drink 7-8 espressos a day and I ended up one morning with fast irregular heartbeat, averaging around 180bpm; it was atrial fibrillation. The diagnosis was too much caffeine, not enough sleep. This was something like 15 years ago. Only taking decaf now :)
    • Yes, exactly. You and hundreds of thousands of other people who develop arrhythmias, atrial or otherwise, because of caffeine. "Heart health" does not equal only coronary arteries--that's the only area this study purports to study. The headline is criminally ignorant.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Would just like to say this is a good example of why non-SI units suck. "cups of coffee". Are we talking the 8oz cup, or are we talking "vessels of coffee"? My 16oz mug is a "cup" but it's also 2 "cups". More annoyingly, wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)#Customary_cup) states that a "cup of coffee" is defined as just over 5oz in the US.

  • it is not the 25 cups of coffee that is keeping the heart healthy. it is the exercise you get walking to and from the bathroom that is keeping you healthy.

  • I'd have to drink over two pots of coffee/day. That's a lot even for a caffeine addict like me. I draw the line at one pot/day.

  • The first rule of Science Club is wait until a study comes out that says you're fine to drink (checks his window desk) four double shot espresso drinks a day.

    Then laugh at all the non-science geeks who envy you, and switched to ferret droppings, which cause liver damage.

  • ...you drink all 25 cups in one sitting. That probably wouldn't be good.
  • Filtered due to preferences.

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