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China Communications Medicine Network The Internet

First 5G Remote Surgery Completed In China (ubergizmo.com) 88

Posted by BeauHD from the first-of-its-kind dept.
According to local reports, the world's first remote surgery equipment using 5G networks was successfully tested in China. "The test involved a doctor in the southeastern province of Fujian removing the liver of a laboratory test animal at a remote location," reports Ubergizmo. "The doctor performed the surgery by controlling robotic surgical arms over a 5G connection." From the report: The lag time was said to be only 0.1 seconds between the control device of the doctor and the robot in the surgical room. The researchers said that this high speed can reduce the risk of potentially deadly medical mistakes. They hope that 5G enabled remote surgery will soon become reliable enough that it can be used safely on humans as well. This could end up saving countless lives as skilled surgeons will be able to operate on patients in remote locations in a safe manner. The South China Morning Post published a video that shows the doctor performing the surgery.
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First 5G Remote Surgery Completed In China More

First 5G Remote Surgery Completed In China

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  • 100ms lag (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Somehow I don't find that very fast!

  • Which of course, introduces the question, why use a 5g connection, or any wireless connection at all, when a wired connection using oh, fiber optic cabling, would be so much more reliable, not to mention faster in terms of both bandwidth and latency...

    • Re:Why use 5g? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @02:50AM (#57964108)
      Because publicity.

      Large portions of the gadget tech industry are masturbating furiously in public over "5G" in the vain hopes that it'll be a thing that will pick smartphone sales and etc. back up. Of course this surgery could've just bee done with a wired connection over wifi. It's not like 100ms ping is great or anything. But any chance to splooge "5G" all over public faces will be taken.
      • While this clearly sounds like a publicity stunt, I can see the value of using a low-latency mobile network instead of WiFi. An ambulance equipped with a remote operation table would allow for emergency surgery without having to arrive to a hospital, which would be very helpful in remote locations (althrough these are going to be the ones who are most likely to not have a working 5G network). Of course what would be even better is a operating table that does the surgery without humans, but cool tech noneth

      • this surgery could've just bee done with a wired connection over wifi

        Of course it could have. And as a proof of concept how would this help a situation where wifi / wired connection does not exist?

        Wireless is not a technology looking for a problem to solve. The problems are well known and are driving continued improvements in wireless.

        • Of course it could have. And as a proof of concept how would this help a situation where wifi / wired connection does not exist?

          Wireless is not a technology looking for a problem to solve. The problems are well known and are driving continued improvements in wireless.

          Only in China would anyone even dream of doing something this idiotic.

          • Re:Why use 5g? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @11:06AM (#57965864)

            Only in China would anyone even dream of doing something this idiotic.

            Animal testing before human testing?
            Remote surgery which has been something that has been explored globally for 20+ years?
            Using wireless for situations where wires aren't available?
            Testing wireless before rolling it out?

            Help me here, I'm struggling how conducting a technology PoC is so incredibly "idiotic".

            • Using wireless for situations where wires aren't available?

              I'm simply not buying what is being sold. "where wires aren't available".

              Obviously wireless transmissions are subject to a wide range of interference from both other transmitters and the environment.

              You don't do remote surgery in a facility without infrastructure. If there is power, water and sewer then it is also reasonable to expect cabling to be tractable for communications.

              Also if there is a 5G access point within range there is very likely to be supporting backhaul links not too far away.

              • Obviously wireless transmissions are subject to a wide range of interference from both other transmitters and the environment.

                In a perfect environment I'd be dragging a wire with me everywhere I go. The environment isn't perfect. Even in industrial and critical applications Wireless finds a use.

                You don't do remote surgery in a facility without infrastructure.

                Indeed. Which is why they are testing 5G as suitable infrastructure.

                If there is power, water and sewer then it is also reasonable to expect cabling to be tractable for communications.

                You are clearly a city boy.

                Also if there is a 5G access point within range there is very likely to be supporting backhaul links not too far away.

                Presence of a backhaul does not automatically mean that running wires in every direction is feasible, and remember we're not talking about a fixed hospital here. Remote surgeries are not being considered so that poor overworked doctors can work fr

      • Because publicity.

        Because they tried AT&T's 5Ge [urbandictionary.com] and the patient ended up with a limp.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      In many rural Chinese areas, they have bypassed the wired internet and went directly to wireless because doing so is much more economical.

    • Which of course, introduces the question, why use a 5g connection

      Because promoting 5G is clearly part of their China 2025 initiative (the goal being to make China self-reliant and a technology exporter). China owns a significant number of patents regarding 5G which is why they are promoting it. Use 5G, pay China. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0... [nytimes.com]

      • Yeah, the world should be paying for American patents, especially American patents of things developed by other countries.

        • I simply stated why they are promoting it. Stop acting like such a cunt.

          • Ah, the "just saying" excuse. The pathetic go-to excuse used by cunts such as yourself.

            Of course, you are free to link to any comment you've made in the past about why Americans promote American technology to show that you "simply stated why".

            • You are projecting your own biases upon me and finding subtext where there is none.

              Of course, you are free to link to any comment you've made in the past about why Americans promote American technology to show that you "simply stated why".

              The US doesn't have similar program or policy nor does it practice statism therefore I cannot point out such a thing as it does not exist.

              • Of course it does. The US has a lax patent system and lumps everything together under the umbrella term IP and use it browbeat China. You voted in a president who is promoting US corporate interest as national policy. Even while it steals technology from Australia and claims it as its own (WiFi).

          • He is not acting...

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Jon Peterson ( 1443 )

      Exactly. 5G is a marketing ploy, just like 4g and 3g were. I still use GPRS, and guess what? It's fine - all my favourite WAP sites are lightning still fast. When I get home I plug my phone into a UTP patch cable which connects to the Internet via my private T1. More bandwidth than I'll ever need.

      The Chinese can keep their fake "5G" technology - maybe it will help them with their fake space program and so-called manufacturing industry.

    • Which of course, introduces the question, why use a 5g connection, or any wireless connection at all, when a wired connection using oh, fiber optic cabling, would be so much more reliable, not to mention faster in terms of both bandwidth and latency...

      Why do you make a phone call on 4G right now instead of dragging a fibre cable around behind you? The premise of wireless is that wired connections are not always feasible. The reason for using 5G is bandwidth.

      • Your connecting a surgical center, not a phone. That seems to imply a bit more of a fixed location, or at least a quantity of equipment being hauled around...

        • Your connecting a surgical center, not a phone.

          What is connecting to a surgical center? A fancy city fibre? Where is it? In a nice city hospital serving a population of Chicago? In a mobile platform dragged to Namibia? At the arse end of the Scott Base Station in Antarctica?

          If the station was as "fixed" as you say it is, your surgeon is not likely to be be operating quite so remotely from you.

    • I would imagine something like this would be the most useful in unstable areas where a more permanent infrastructure isn't possible, such as war zones and what not. Being able to operate on, say, soldiers remotely would be a pretty big benefit I'd think.

  • Cancer (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    They used it to remove cancer caused by 5G

  • This could end up saving countless lives as skilled surgeons will be able to operate on patients in remote locations in a safe manner.

    Only if there is currently a surplus of skilled surgeons, sitting around all day waiting for someone who needs an operation.

    Otherwise they will already have their time fully booked, operating on people who are at their local hospitals. And given that most medical procedures have waiting times, the limiting resource would appear to be availability of surgeons, not lack of low latency internet.

    Plus, this still requires an even rarer resource: robotic surgeons, to be present in each and every "remote locat

    • The limiting factor is kinda surgeons, and kinda ORs. There are different surgeons who take over for different parts of an operation (at least for very complex ones), as well as anesthisa, etc. You can imagine this would let a world-class surgeon pop in to do the most difficult part, and hand over the initial/sewing up to a lesser surgeon (since it's handing over the robot controls to someone in another spot.) This might let the world-class surgeon work on 3x as many people, but only for the difficult 1/

  • Kudos. Not to rain on the parade - The surgery can probably be called "successfully completion" but are/will such surgeries be "successful" or without complications at a reasonable rate?

    For all I know this operation is 100% fatal due to operation removing its liver, so no data on survival rate on lab subjects can be derived.

    If this operation is followed up with more successful operations (e.g. Liver Transplant) with reasonable survival rate, that'll be when the champagne bottles should be popped.

  • I must have seen at least 50 articles discussing 5g in the past 6 months.

    I understand 3G had its own issues, but iâ(TM)m Really not sure what 5g can actually offer. 4g when specâ(TM)d out at the max is exceptionally fast.

    They also seriously improved the handshake time, which I believe makes the latency feel better when initially establishing a connection.

    At this point, iâ(TM)m unsure what 5g can actually offer? Is anyone finding bandwidth the issue on their cell phone? Iâ(TM)d say batt

    • SORRY! I MISSED MY POINT regarding the conspiracy theory...

      Thereâ(TM)s been too much pump hype pump on 5g, which doesnâ(TM)t seem that urgently needed? Is there some kind of inherent black door on 5g networks? Better tracking of user location? Easier to decrypt? Thereâ(TM)s just too many articles on it at this point, where it feels they âwantâ(TM) to pump the product.

      I just canâ(TM)t get excited for it in the slightest.

      • As far as I can tell the big difference between 4G and 5G is not usable bandwidth per device, but total aggregate bandwidth per cell. So your 5G phone probably won't download anything faster (or maybe it will, who knows) but the 5G network will support thousands to millions of high-bandwidth devices in each cell area. This makes all kinds of creepy shit possible. So far IoT has been limited by WiFi availability, and controllable at the WiFi router. With 5G there are potentially no such limits, particularly

  • performed by a web cam?

  • I'm an anesthesiologist, and this is meaningless. (Score:5, Informative)

    by demonlapin ( 527802 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @09:00AM (#57965064) Homepage Journal
    Here's the thing about "robotic surgery": it's actually really good for a few things, like stuff in the pelvis (prostates, complicated hysterectomies). Anywhere else in the abdomen, it doesn't offer much more than plain laparoscopy does, except cost. I work with surgeons who can have a gallbladder or appendix out laparoscopically before you could even get the robot docked to all the instruments, and it doesn't decrease the number or size of incisions.

    Sure, in theory, you can do it remotely. Here's the catch: you still have to have someone on site who can put the trocars in (most surgeons will not let an assistant do this until they have worked with them extensively, as it is one of those things that you can royally fuck up if you don't know what you're doing) and close the incisions afterward. And that assumes that you actually can do the surgery laparoscopically/robotically, which is not a guaranteed thing. We end up performing open operations from time to time once we get in there and see what's going on. Bigger tumor than you thought? You're not going to be able to pull it out through a 12 mm camera port. Someone is going to have to make a bigger incision.

    Oh, and I haven't even started the discussion about when things start going badly and you need to act quickly. So: if you have to have a fully-qualified surgeon on site anyway, along with these gigantic, expensive machines, why not just have them do the surgery, and skip the gigantic, expensive machine? It's a neat party trick to say you're doing it remotely, but in practice... it doesn't add much.

    • royally fuck up this is China what are the chinese doctor Qualification like?

    • as it is one of those things that you can royally fuck up if you don't know what you're doing

      It feels like the entire practice of surgery is like that though. Where do you even begin to practice without risking lives? Can you trocar a chicken? Thats not a euphemism for jerking off btw I actually want to know.

      • The whole point of residency is that you have fully-qualified specialists telling you what to do, and when you start, they watch you like a hawk would a mouse. If you fuck up - which is pretty unlikely, given that they're watching you with a gimlet eye - they are right there to fix the problem. As you gain experience, they start letting you do more stuff by yourself. By the last year of my residency, the staff doctors handed me the main pager and told me to wake them up if someone was about to die. Otherwis

  • How much of that was caused by the wireless part of the network? Would they have noticed if they used LTE with 20 ms more latency instead? I guess not.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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