China Successfully Lands Spacecraft On Far Side of the Moon (cnbc.com) 212
State news agency Xinhua reports that China has successfully landed its Chang'e 4 spacecraft on the far side of the moon on Thursday morning, Beijing time, becoming the first country in history to touch the lunar surface unseen by those on Earth. CNBC reports: The Chang'e 4 mission launched in early December. It took the spacecraft three days to travel to the moon, where it spent the last few weeks in orbit preparing for touch down on the Von Karman crater. The crater is a relatively flat spot on the moon's far side. "China's Chang'e-4 probe softlands on Moon's far side," the state news agency tweeted on Thursday. Citing the China National Space Administration, Xinhua said the space probe, made up of a lander and a rover, "landed at the preselected landing area on the far side of the moon at 10:26 a.m. Beijing Time."
Landing on the far side is a technical challenge, as there is no direct way to communicate with the spacecraft as it nears its target. China put a relay satellite in orbit around the moon in May to overcome that communication challenge. The far side of the moon has been seen and mapped before, even by astronauts of the Apollo missions. But the successful landing of Chang'e 4 represents the first time any spacecraft has touched down on the moon's far side.
Landing on the far side is a technical challenge, as there is no direct way to communicate with the spacecraft as it nears its target. China put a relay satellite in orbit around the moon in May to overcome that communication challenge. The far side of the moon has been seen and mapped before, even by astronauts of the Apollo missions. But the successful landing of Chang'e 4 represents the first time any spacecraft has touched down on the moon's far side.
And... (Score:2)
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what did you find...? Missing somthing...?
The original script for the movie "Iron Sky".
And the release date for Iron sky 2 (Score:2)
Lots of false sightings on the release date. Perhaps they can find it.
Re:And... (Score:5, Funny)
what did you find...? Missing somthing...?
Pink Floyd. They were irate since they've been waiting there for us since the 70s and were wondering if we would ever show.
Re:FCn E-rovers (Score:2)
Re:Is it just me? (Score:4)
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> Look at that bundle of wires that will chaff on the sharp aluminum edge.
So I'm not the only one that noticed that and questioned the logic.
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That looks similar to the mockups but differs in major ways. I haven't seen any real photos, just mockups and diagrams. Ie, see: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sc... [dailymail.co.uk]
I suspect what you have a picture of is an early test module or something whipped up for publicity purposes.
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They were selling Saturn V models before we landed on the moon, do you also think NASA was funded by selling toys?
Nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Be gracious, lad. This is an achievement worthy of a admiration.
Re:Yes... 3 years ago. (Score:2)
Re:Nice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nice (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a real shame that the US won't work with China. The ESA does, but NASA is barred from doing so and it's a loss for everyone.
In a way it might actually be for the best though. Everyone was kind of following the US lead for the longest time, but now have realized that the US isn't really committed and that there are other opportunities, other players, we are starting to see things move more quickly again.
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Preventing knowledge from disseminating is always a loss. Preventing great minds from collaborating, however, is the much bigger loss -- the US and China and the rest of the world could all be enjoying a lot of knowledge we don't currently have, if their scientists were allowed to work together.
Re:Nice (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a real shame that the US won't work with China. The ESA does, but NASA is barred from doing so and it's a loss for everyone.
In a way it might actually be for the best though. Everyone was kind of following the US lead for the longest time, but now have realized that the US isn't really committed and that there are other opportunities, other players, we are starting to see things move more quickly again.
Space exploration (and science in general) is more political in the US than most other countries. Cooperating with the US on long term missions can be tricky because potentially every 4 years you have a new executive leader in charge and the executive leader is for some reason in charge of what scientific missions can and will be done and can tear up past agreements and contracts.
Although usually the West more aligns politically and socially with the US, and so the US ideally would be the science partner for the West- the political instability of American Science funding being tied to which political party is in charge might mean China is a better (more stable) partner for long term science cooperations despite their messed up political and social systems.
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Kennedy was planning to do the moon landings as a joint missing with the USSR. He had a good relationship with their leader. But then he was assassinated, and it became the space race.
A distorted version (Score:2)
That's a... somewhat distorted version of events. The Apollo lunar landing program started as a space race. Kennedy later considered seeking a partnership as a move to contain the ever spiraling cost estimates. He also considered scaling back the program or simply cancelling it outright. Dallas intervened before he could
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And if Kennedy had not been shot, there's a good chance the Moon program would have been canceled before success.
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You have source for this? Kennedy was in a big standoff with Kruschev over the Bay of Pigs fiasco, and Krushchev got the much better outcome after the Vienna summit. There doesn't seem to have been much time after that to create a good relationship.
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OTOH, it only really happened because he was assassinated. The NASA budget was protected because no one wanted to be seen as the one dismantling JFK's legacy. Kept NASA in funding until Nixon (at which point most people had lost interest anyway).
The space race is a shining example of rapid technological process due to competition for a reason other than war. Something I'm hard pressed to even find a second example of, between governments instead of companies.
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It's plenty political in other countries too. One of the reasons the ESA accomplishes so little/goes in circles is that (for political reasons) the ESA spends money in it's member nations in proportion to the contributions. In the same vein, that's why China has the slow motion program it does - just big enough to claim that they are A Real Spacefaring Nation and to fuel domestic propaganda.
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It's plenty political in other countries too. One of the reasons the ESA accomplishes so little/goes in circles is that (for political reasons) the ESA spends money in it's member nations in proportion to the contributions. In the same vein, that's why China has the slow motion program it does - just big enough to claim that they are A Real Spacefaring Nation and to fuel domestic propaganda.
ESA tends to stick to past long term commitments though. When an administration changes in the US NASA is frequently told to stop what they have been working on and focus on something new.
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That's the belief of folks who don't actually pay any attention to NASA except the headlines. In reality, yeah it does happen, but the majority of programs continue regardless of Administration.
Re: Nice (Score:3)
Re: Nice (Score:2)
Does Sinophobia have to be racist? Personally I quite like Chinese culture and Chinese people. But it would be very foolish indeed to imagine the Chinese state is a geopolitical ally of America.
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It is. There are a lot of severe problems with China, but this is not one of them. This is also not the act of a technologically inferior nation.
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They watched the original moon landing on black and white.
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BUT with that said, this is the second time that China has landed on the moon. And they have gone to someplace interesting. I say good for them. We need more like this.
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You know, aside from me missing an 'n' in an 'an', its kind of ironic. Your sarcasm will be proven wrong, because it is, in point of fact, a seriously cool achievement for the Chinese.
Sure you can put a couple of guys on a bright side and have them jump around and collect rock samples (or maybe fake it in a studio depending on your vantage point), but to continue iterating on a closest celestial object we have to our point of origin and exploring sides unknown is a leap beyond technological - its a leap of
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Lol, it's big fucking shit. The US had no reason to spend money on this, or they'd have made it the big e-peen moment already. We're on MARS lol. Sides unknown, WE HAVE CARTOGRAPHY OF THE ENTIRE MOON DIPSHIT.
What the Chinese did is LAND on the far side, which wasn't really a good idea until recently due to the inability to radio-contact the Earth. Now there is a "first" factor in doing it first, but what was the point of the milestone?
What great difficulty was overcome? It was an achievable gotcha poin
Because it is hard (Score:3, Interesting)
Americans take on big challenges,
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There is no practical need. As Kennedy said, we do these things because they are hard. China doesn't. That's not part of Chinese culture. .... Americans traditionally look at something that "can't be done" and try to figure out how to do it. Chinese study the company procedure to see exactly how a task is done, in detail.
The most important thing here is not that China succeeded in this attempt, but that they attempted it. There is no immediate need to do this, they did it simply because it is hard. That demonstrates a new attitude in China. It shows the "American spirit", the spirit of bold adventure, in China.
I highlighted a grand assumption that may be false.
If that assumption is false, if instead we assume that China is following its common approach to improved technology of stepwise refinement, then we have the very interesting question of where does this step lead?
Why would China be so interested in the back side of the Moon at this time? Are they simply looking for confirmation that data obtained from the visible side can be generalized to all of the Moon's surface?
My wife suggests that they are explor
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There is no practical need.
Their rocket program is largely funded for military reasons.
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And our Apollo program was funded in large part for military and political purposes as well.
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Yeah, China has always been the leader in space technology.
Or else maybe you're the idiot.
Fireworks a thousand years ago != space flight.
(Check Mythbusters for your "Ming dynasty rocket man" myth)
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Obviously I did not talk about space flight (* shake heads *) ... to many dumb asses on /. ...
I'm simply annoyed about the anti China hate. As if we would need another cold war
Interesting chart at the top of your link (Score:2)
At the top of your link there is an interesting chart.
It shows China being at the bottom for at least the last 500 years (as far back as the chart goes).
Of course China DID inent one thing a thousand years ago, fireworks. Well, maybe they invented it, maybe they got it from someone else, but they had it a thousand years ago. If GGP's point is that the Chinese invented one thing in a thousand years, I'll grant that's true.
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There is no cultural connection between pre-Mao and post-Mao China, merely geography.
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There is no cultural connection between pre-Mao and post-Mao China, merely geography.
And the language(s) ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
And the food
The Religion(s)
Living in family clans
Martial arts
Traditional medicine
Valuing education
Valuing hard work
And over all: greed for money.
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No, most of those values were destroyed by Mao. Read about China's "Lost Generation" (if you though the Boomers were bad ...).
* China has never had a unified spoken language.
* Religion was effectively banned by Mao (of course, religion is sticky, and continued in hiding, but in tiny subcultures at best). Having a God or philosophical leader other than Mao was counter-revolutionary.
*Families were broken up deliberately under Mao, at least those who were urban or literate, and the kids sent away to reconnec
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* China has never had a unified spoken language.
And who claimed that?
Perhaps you should have not said pre and post Mao then, when you want to point out what Mao did.
We are now post Mao ... and all is like before - more or less. While the martial arts had trouble to survive, most did, or got resurrected (what ever that means for their shape).
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Well posted, Comrade. I'm sure your social credit score has improved.
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I see you don't deny it.
Well, when you post Chinese government propaganda, I can only conclude you're (a) stupid; (b) crazy; or (c) a reasonable person making his way though an authoritarian regime. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, here.
It's not about looking down. Just different (Score:2)
There are good things about people who see themselves as part of a much greater whole, people who do their part in the system. There are disadvantages to everyone being a "cowboy", doing their own thing.
I'm not looking down on either approach. Simply pointing out that they are two different cultural viewpoints.
Moving to America is kinda big (Score:2)
> Now, US is a merely a shadow of what it was doing in the 60s-80s.
Agreed.
> I don't think it's right to say that the US was always looking for big challenges. I think that's period is a relatively short period in US history.
Most people in the US either came here themselves from a another country, often not speaking the language, or their family did within the last 100 years. So on that alone you have culture of adventure, of not being timid. Many of those people arrived with nothing and now own succes
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It is something the US wanted to do. The far side of the moon is very different geologically. Science-wise it's very useful, but it's also very expensive, but for China the big payout on investment is more about politics and prestige and national pride.
So in the US the space program has increased in science value but decreased in political value. NASA does stuff like look at distant objects beyond Pluto (also news this week). The whole world isn't glued to their screens waiting to get pictures of Ultima-
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So consent is irrelevant?
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but I seem to remember some pretty harsh passages about homosexuality in the old testament,
Yeah right before the bit that says you're not allowed tattoos or piercing either but you don't see many people protesting outside tattoo parlours.
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but I seem to remember some pretty harsh passages about homosexuality in the old testament
Eh, not really. All the Torah says about it is "Do not lie with a man as you would with a woman, it is an abomination." And that's pretty much only in one place (it's written in one place and then repeated, along with the other verses around it, a bit later). There are many commandments that are repeated much more often, and definitely much harsher stuff in other places.
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I'm hardly an expert on biblical matters (more of a fan of the Flying Spaghetti Monster myself, may sauce be upon Him)
When Dawkins made this quote it made ignorance fashionable. It requires significant amount of intelligence and effort to decipher that the messages in the Bible are mythological and architypical. To decode the messages in the New testament is a shortcut to developing an understanding of human nature much in the same way a domain diagram describes the design of software behavour.
Human beings still happen to be the most complex creatures on this planet that we are aware of and to deny oneself spiritual de
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> The Old Testament is the memories of our species in story form.
That might be news to the Chinese...
There are common elements in religious texts that suggest calamity. Flood myths are a very common occurrence and thus unlikely to be "news to the Chinese" [wikipedia.org].
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Association fallacy.
No. Nothing I have said fits the definition of an Association fallacy [wikipedia.org].
Just because flood myths are common (at least as common as floods) doesn't mean the Chinese one has anything to do with the Biblical flood.
Which is you making an Assertion fallacy [wikipedia.org]. To directly answer the haste and red herring components of your assertion, more and more evidence is surfacing that the flood myths are memories of a global calamity that happened during the Younger Dryas [wikipedia.org]. Evidence for which is glacial oxygen samples and geological evidence.
I would suggest you investigate these areas and revise your knowledge to make it more current.
Likewise, the "stories" of our species preserved in the Old Testament are irrelevant to Chinese culture and history. I'm sure when they first got ahold of a bible, they wondered how they had managed to have forgotten so much. /s
Culture is a subset of ou
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You did NOT say "The Old Testament is a subset of the memories of our species in story form."
That's the only point I wanted to address.
That is an acceptable criticism as I had an unexpected lunch offer with friends while I was posting and did not have the opportunity for proper proofreading.
But I will look into the latest flood myth theories, thanks for the prompting.
You're most welcome. May I suggest that an investigation of Randal Calson's work on cataclysmic geology of the US is a great place to start. All the best to you Mr AC.
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For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. That's pretty all inclusive. And if you actually read the sermon on the mount, it's pretty clear that the standards have been raised above what the law required for Christians. Not that we do a very good job of living up those raised standards most days.
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That stopped happening in the late fifties and early sixties. And there weren't really any protests, divorcees were just sorta persona non-grata in polite company.
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There are so many possible reasons for divorce. Why do you assume the woman was disloyal and not the husband? Maybe she was abused in her marriage, or there was no love, or whatever?
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This issue has nothing to do with homosexuality. It would be equally wrong if the priests were diddling little girls. Focusing on homosexuality is a diversion from the actual problem.
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He basically said laws exist, including divorce laws, because we are sinners, and following those laws don't make us less sinful. He did not say you are necessarily more of a sinner if you get a divorce.
Re: Nice (Score:2)
because today, Chinese have truly surprised the American
That's some funny shit.
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China has been pushing into new areas for some years now. A lot of investment in Africa, for example, with big infrastructure projects. They figure that Africa will be the next big emerging economy and they are getting in early.
I wonder if they see space the same way. Put up a space station with international cooperation, just as the ISS is coming to end of life and either being de-orbited or broken up (the Russians might keep their bits going). And the moon too, and maybe Mars beyond that. They have an opp
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You know, aside from me missing an 'n' in an 'an', its kind of ironic. Your sarcasm will be proven wrong, because it is, in point of fact, a seriously cool achievement for the Chinese.
For the Chinese, yeah. Everyone else is like 'oh right, well let us know if you find anything cool'.
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What the Chinese have found is the nearest quiet place free of all of Earth's noise of talking head news broadcasts, video porn, and the like.
Gee, what could be done in such a quiet little corner? Is the long term plan to build a radio telescope there? Or something more prosaic, like a satellite communications site, that would enable them to communicate in private with asteroid exploration and mining robots?
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You know, aside from me missing an 'n' in an 'an'...
"Admiration" isn't a countable noun, so you don't use "an" (meaning one) with it. You would normally say "worthy of admiration".
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That explains by Chinese scientists beat the American scientists in placing a spacecraft on the far side of the moon.
Is any one else even trying to do that? NASA are all about Mars these days and the ESA and JAXA seem to be more interested in asteroids and other stuff further out.
Re: Nice (Score:2)
Be careful about the "more money" part. Someday, when China has per-capita income & GNP comparable to the US, it'll be able to EFFORTLESSLY raise 2-4x the tax revenue to fund its space program, just by virtue of having 3-4x the population of the US (and 3-4x as many taxpayers). The US will HAVE to cooperate with Europe, just to maintain comparable levels of funding. And Russia has even LESS choice in the matter... it has space infrastructure & history, but approximately half the population of the US
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The far side of the Moon is quite different from the near side, few maria, lots of craters, thicker crust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] and geologists have wanted a closer look for a long time.
After Apollo, the Moon was just not high priority compared to the rest of the solar system and that's why America never went back until recently, not because it was uninteresting.
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This means that China now has advanced their sciences enough to have cloned Stanley Kubrick.
Interesting for two reasons (Score:1)
Furst, it's a side poorly understood and very different from the near side. Far more igneous rock and fewer craters.
Second, China is comparing it to land it questionably annexed. Is this an indication they're withdrawing from the treaty for outer space and have the means to defend any territory?
Re:1st foothold for the greys... (Score:2)
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Second, China is comparing it to land it questionably annexed.
Where did you find that language? Skimming the linked articles didn't help.
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Second, China is comparing it to land it questionably annexed. Is this an indication they're withdrawing from the treaty for outer space and have the means to defend any territory?
To what are they comparing it and where?
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Jinping: Flunky, we will invade and occupy uninhabited space rocks for the glory of me....errrr...the Chinese Communist Party.
Flunky: Sure thing, Boss-Guy, shall I ready our invasion fleet?
Ping: No, we'll need them for Taiwan, I hear there are free Chinese there and we cannot be having any of that. there's my ego to consider.
Flunky: Boss-Guy? Beijing University suspects there may be free Chinese on space rocks.
Ping: Holy Cow! Taiwan is replicating, I knew it. Get our military on Super Secret High Alert, we
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Is this an indication they're withdrawing from the treaty for outer space and have the means to defend any territory?
Well, they do have the most advanced battlebot on the Moon...
china successfully lands craft (Score:1)
I knew that name sounded familiar ... (Score:2)
where it spent the last few weeks in orbit preparing for touch down on the Von Karman crater.
No relation [kerbalspaceprogram.com], I'm assuming.
Re:I knew that name sounded familiar ... (Score:5, Informative)
Did they really? (Score:3, Funny)
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But,.. did they really land on the far side of the moon or are they still shooting the landing sequence in a hanger in Beijing?
I would mod this funny but in case some people are really wondering this, every developped country have enough space surveillance to confirm if this is a fluke or not. In other words, if we don't heard a "Fake News" from the US, then it's true.
Re: Did they really? (Score:5, Funny)
I heard the Finns sweep their forests, that's why they never have forest fires.
Aww crap! (Score:2)
Do you want a Moon Nazi invasion because this is how you get a Moon Nazi invasion! #IronSky
Great achievement (Score:2)
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good for china (Score:2)
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"Freedom from satellite surveillance", huh? I give up, what possibly could they want free of satellite surveillance that requires the far side of the moon? A Chinese effort in New and Improved Moon Rocks, the last fad to hit the U.S. market. The alleged administration is already preparing to raise tariffs on any moon rocks from China. The illegitimate government of China is going to point to the landing on the far side of the moon as proof they can land on the far side of Taiwan and steal it like they did
There is no dark side in the moon, really. (Score:2)
Matter of fact, it's all dark.
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Here we go again.
One meaning of "dark", when referencing places, is "not known or explored because of remoteness".
See definition #4:
https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]
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Here we go again.
One meaning of "dark", when referencing places, is "not known or explored because of remoteness".
See definition #4: https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]
Using that definition of "dark", "dark side" and "far side" are the same thing, so the original post is still wrong.
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I think it is terrible the way you are describing congressional science funding committees. They are the most rootin-tootin gun-fearing defenders of America east, north, west, and south of the Pecos. They are the Yosemite Sams of the Modern Age.
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Re:Apollo 18 (Score:4, Funny)
The 18th Apollo mission was planned to land on the dark side of the moon.
But according to Senator William Proxmire, supporting Wisconsin cheese farmers was more important, so it got cancelled.
I very much doubt that lunar cheese mines could have competed with Wisconsin, due to the high cost of transport, Grommit.
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Don't confuse "American cheese" with cheese made in America. They've got some awesome cheeses in Wisconsin. Though they don't make Casu Marzu or Stinking Bishop.
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No, it's true! I saw it in a movie! [youtube.com]
Seriously, when the missions were being cancelled, there was some talk of landing on the far side as something new and different. But that's all it was.
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China continues to surpass the US in all capabilities, from space exploration to manufacturing to financial management. The US would do well to learn from China's successes, and in particular the success of China's brand of communism.
China's brand of communism is exactly what makes any success they may have "not worth it". Doesn't matter how many planetary bodies they land on, or how cheaply they can make an iPhone; it's not worth the oppressive lifestyle of living under the paw of an evil Winnie the Pooh.
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Xi Jinping is NOT an evil Winnie the Pooh....an evil Mary Poppins, sure, but not Winnie the Pooh. "A little bit of sugar helps the re-education go down, re-education go down...." Now salute your leader and say three State Sanctioned Hail Marys.
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First off, China has not surpassed America once in space exploration. Landing on the moon? 50 years ago. Landing out of sight? Try mars.
Manufacturing technology that CHina employs came from the west. They continue to STILL steal it. [rare.us]
But there are 2 main reasons why Chinese are moving heavily to the west:
1) to escape your communism. Now, your gov is getting upset with this and trying to stop the wealthy and middle class from leaving, but laws and bullets.
2) to steal te
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