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Elon Musk's Extracurricular Antics Reportedly Spark a NASA Safety Probe At SpaceX (techcrunch.com) 225

Posted by BeauHD from the safety-first dept.
The recent interview Elon Musk conducted with Joe Rogan, where Musk took one puff from a marijuana cigarette after a lengthy conversation around AI, social media and space, is prompting a NASA safety probe at SpaceX. The Washington Post reports that NASA was not amused with Musk's antics and has "ordered a safety review of SpaceX and Boeing as a response to the colorful chief executive's shenanigans," reports TechCrunch. From the report: In an interview, NASA associate administrator for human exploration, William Gerstenmaier, told the Post that the review will begin next year and would examine the "safety culture" of both Boeing and SpaceX. Rather than focus on the safety of the actual rockets, the Post said that the review would look at the hours employees work, drug policies, leadership and management styles, and the responsiveness of both companies to safety concerns from employees. The review is going to be led by the Office of Safety and Mission Assurance within NASA, which has conducted similar probes before, according to the Post report.

According to the NASA official, the process could be "pretty invasive," with the potential for hundreds of interviews with employees at every level and across all locations where the companies operate. At stake is the potential $6.8 billion in contracts the two companies received in 2014 to revive crewed missions to space. SpaceX grabbed $2.6 billion from NASA for the program, while the remainder went to Boeing. In a statement given to the Post, SpaceX said, "We couldn't be more proud of all that we have already accomplished together with NASA, and we look forward to returning human spaceflight capabilities to the United States."
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Elon Musk's Extracurricular Antics Reportedly Spark a NASA Safety Probe At SpaceX More

Elon Musk's Extracurricular Antics Reportedly Spark a NASA Safety Probe At SpaceX

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  • They take it seriously (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @08:30PM (#57677282)

    My last company was supporting boards for the aerospace industry. They have all sorts of odd triggers when it comes to anything to do with "drugs."

    For some reason we didn't have to drug test our line workers that produced the product, but we did have to certify that the people who repaired the product with audited drug tests. Well it turns out to be one guy in our whole company who had to pee in a cup. I offered to do it with him even though I had nothing to do with manufacturing because I thought that was unfair. But it never went anywhere.

    Elon can be hip as he wants, but if he wants those sweet sweet government contracts he has to behave. If something goes BOOM down the line when it wasn't supposed to there is nobody at NASA who wants to report to the subsequent investigation that they weren't keeping tabs on vendors.

    • No they don't. Not unless they are using hair or check swab tests, which are expensive (also relatively expensive to cheat on).

      Pee tests are designed to let 'crete and paint crews stay staffed. If they worked, the crews would be empty and work wouldn't get done.

      I've passed pee tests while reeking, red eyed, dry mouthed, babbling, stoned.

      It's been decades since I took a pee test sober, kind of a ritual. Though at this point, it's been a few years since I took one at all.

    • Re:They take it seriously (Score:4, Funny)

      by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @09:39PM (#57677612)

      You're forgetting about that time the TSA found an overdue library book in Musk's carryon. That and a joint is two strikes. One speeding ticket in a red Tesla, and federosaurus mandatory sentencing kicks in.

    • It's just so stupid for an industry full of ostensibly smart people to test for whether someone has used pot in the last month but not test at all for alcohol, which impairs you a lot more than the weed you smoked last week. Not to mention all the other illegal drugs that are out of your system in a few days.

    • Wankers would employ flat earthers though, so it is just virtue signalling.

    • Not just NASA, but DoD, cia, nsa, etc take this seriously.

    • This 'controversy' has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is likely that NASA will likely cancel [businessinsider.com] the Space Launch System if BFR or Blue Origin 'New Glen' are able to launch. Nothing at all. Nothing to see here. Move along.

  • What is wrong with these people? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @08:31PM (#57677284)

    NASA is spending American tax dollars to investigate a company's employees' off hours activities - based on the CEO participating in a legal activity; at least in California.

    What a waste. No wonder NASA can't get a man to the moon anymore.

    • Sadly, the Fed-scum still keep it illegal at their level...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      NASA is federal, it isn't legal anywhere as far as the feds are concerned.

    • Let's take a look at the last Soyuz. A simple manufacturing issue. This is why random drug and alcohol tests are tied to an entire contract, whether you work in the office on the program or in manufacturing. Not saying this was the cause of the soyuz, but the job of NASA is to reduce risk when dealing with programs costs in the millions and ultimately billions.

      • First of all: the drugs I take at time out of work, usually don't affect my work, as I sleep about 8h before I go to work. So, assuming a worker had made a mistake which causes a defect, under drugs, is obviously not very plausible.
        Secondly, to let a defect escape into production says that there is something wrong with the process. Regardless if the "cause" was a person under drugs. Perhaps all people in the chain of the process are under drugs?
        Thirdly: consuming drugs at work, or working under influence of mind or body altering drugs obviously should be prohibited. No one likes a drunk plane pilot ... But where do you draw the line? Is coffee a drug? What about pain killers? It is not even a decade ago that it was common that vending machines inside of big companies sold beer to the staff (in Germany) ...

        • Is coffee a drug?

          Yes, a performance enhancing one.

          What about pain killers?

          Obviously. But really what you're showing here is quite a bit of ignorance on the topic. "Drugs" aren't banned, rather quite specific drugs that have quite specific performance related effects are banned. And yes there are several pain killers that would show up on my drug screen on the way into work which would result in me being either not allowed either on site or being banned from undertaking certain activities.

          • ...and yet withdrawal from coffee (caffeine) is most definitely something that could impact your ability to do your job. There's a discussion about the soyuz production line above, and maybe someone with too little caffeine one day tightened a bolt to the wrong torque.

            There are more things than drugs that can affect your performance. There's usually a system of double-checks to make sure one persons performance isn't critical in the creation of anything important. Thus, Musk or anyone else's performance isn

            • The problem is that people are mixing up drug usage as in consumption with drug abuse.

              If someone cares that someone else took MDH during a rave party at the last weekend then the former, not the later has a mental problem. Luckily drug tests are illegal in Europe and can only be done under court order or in military like environments, otherwise our economy would probably break down completely. (I don't even want to look to scandinavia)

            • ...and yet withdrawal from coffee (caffeine) is most definitely something that could impact your ability to do your job.

              Withdrawal from anything you're addicted to would, including doing non-drug related things like addictions to masturbation or addictive drugs that have no actual performance impact on the body like nicotine, or simply a change in diet can induce withdrawal symptoms as well.

              Side note: I called in sick for 2 days when I quit caffeine.

              The answer is not to focus on drugs in that case but rather the process of withdrawals. Your brain is fully of funky shit that could impact your performance, but it's silly to c

          • Obviously. But really what you're showing here is quite a bit of ignorance on the topic. "Drugs" aren't banned, rather quite specific drugs that have quite specific performance related effects are banned. And yes there are several pain killers that would show up on my drug screen on the way into work which would result in me being either not allowed either on site or being banned from undertaking certain activities.

            Opiates can have zero effect on your performance or reaction times, it would depend entirely on your dosage and tolerance. Cannabis has no performance or neurological effect that would increase or decrease performance, reaction times or safety anymore than cigarettes would.

            The problem is that outside alcohol there has been almost no research on any of the other drugs that would conclusively prove impairment. And that's the exact problem, they were declared bad and added to a list without any scientific effo

            • Cannabis has no performance or neurological effect that would increase or decrease performance, reaction times or safety anymore than cigarettes would.
              Of course it has. Cannabis can have extremely high effects. But as always: it depends on the dose, or dose over time. Most people don't consume enough to have negative effects or drawbacks, but you see enough people in areas where cannabis consumption in public is tolerated that are heavily affected.

              People that support the war on drugs and federal blanket ba

    • Nothing is wrong insofar as the probe is concerned. They are just doing their jobs, they have done those probes before, and Boeing is getting the full treatment as well. The actual reason probably had more to do with the recent mishap with Soyuz. Stating that this is because of Musk having one single toke (the article summary amazingly getting that part right for a change) and a sip of liquor is 100% political PR bullshit. Either someone has an axe to grind with Musk, or some Puritan exec somewhere in the p
  • In 20 years taking a toke will be like opening a beer. Musk has gotten to where he is because he not only takes risks, he spends a lot of time and effort reducing them.

    So, you gonna compare Elon with the risk takers who said "don't launch" in 1986, or the risk takers who said "launch".
  • Typical of the US at large.. partaking in pleasurable activities leads to blacklisting. I don't like Musk for his Tesla spare parts policies and other reasons, but this is just abusive and stupid.

  • Any major contractor for Orion receives a random drug test. If you fail you can no longer work on the program until you go through a rehab period. The testing includes alcohol, pot, opiodes, etc. This is actually a pretty big concern now for the likes of Lockheed as they are outside of Denver. While a Drs prescription will get you out of it for your painkillers they don't give a rats ass for any medical marijuana card. I actually have to be very careful if for example I'm paired up on a ski lift with someon

    • The tests can't tell pot from Marinol (or it's other brand name).

      Works for DOT and FAA tests. Drs are much more relaxed and informed about these drugs vs 20 years ago.

      The standard pee test can be beat by a highschool dropout. But for the nervous (or owners of high stakes licences), Marinol does the trick.

    • Their drug tests can't distinguish between levels of THC metabolites from second-hand smoke and levels of THC actually likely to get someone high. Welcome to Dumberica, I guess, land of the Puritans, home of the zealots.

    • Not to mention that *it is a violation of Federal law*, and is also a violation of Federal Acquisition Regulations. The states can play like it is legal but the supremacy clause definitely applies, and if you violate federal law while working under a federal contract, you *will* have consequences, period.

  • Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @08:51PM (#57677410) Journal

    That's a good idea, because Musk has a joystick that he uses to remotely pilot each launched rocket, and must always have his wits about him to insure that the rockets don't crash and burn. Sorry, but this is just a bit ridiculous on NASA's part.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by murdocj ( 543661 )

      No, he's merely the guy who sets the tone and makes the decisions. Kinda nice if that guy isn't crazy or stoned when human lives are at stake.

      • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Interesting)

        by apoc.famine ( 621563 ) <apoc.famine@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:48PM (#57677842) Journal

        You realize he took a puff, didn't like it, and said he never gets high, don't you? That's what makes this entire thing a stupid farce. Prior to his Joe Rogan appearance, I generally assumed he was a major stoner, due to the crazy shit he comes up with. That's where we learned that he wasn't.

      • Seems pretty unlikely to be the case. If you bothered to watch the interview this whole tempest in a tea pot stems from, it doesn't seem like he's much into smoking pot. He seems genuinely surprised when Rogan lights up spliff and asks if it's a cigar, isn't sure whether it's legal or not, and then takes a tiny drag that he doesn't seem to inhale.

        Possibly still crazy, but not likely to be a stoner.

    • Re:Good idea (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:52AM (#57678550) Homepage Journal

      The WaPo article this is based on doesn't directly link Musk's behaviour to the investigation, which is also looking a Boeing.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

      Seems like they are just doing their due diligence and checking out both the companies that will be putting humans in space for them.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by c ( 8461 )

      I'm strongly suspecting that this is just a convenient excuse to do something NASA was already planning on doing.

    • And moreso, he also pilots Boeing's rockets. Because why else would a Boeing security review also be triggered? Oh wait maybe it's just a random abuse of power that someone wanted an excuse to run up an expense account.

  • Anyone notice how SpaceX rockets look like giant joints, smoking their way off into the cosmos? Coincidence?!

    • What strain are you smoking? Cause I'm growing it, next year!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrKaos ( 858439 )

      Anyone notice how SpaceX rockets look like giant joints, smoking their way off into the cosmos? Coincidence?!

      That's SpaceX should develop a "Rocket Bong", sales would be huge.

  • Alcohol anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by george14215 ( 929657 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @09:02PM (#57677442)
    Why doesn't NASA open an investigation into itself to figure out who drinks alcohol...a more potent and dangerous drug.

    • Re:Alcohol anyone? (Score:4, Funny)

      by quenda ( 644621 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @09:18PM (#57677518)

      Archival photo of the NASA drug enforcement team:

      https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/Hi... [nasa.gov]

      • I always found it hilarious that no one in the movie "Hidden Figures" was shown smoking, when in reality the whole crew would have been puffing like old steam engines.

        • Re:Alcohol anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by quenda ( 644621 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:21PM (#57677768)

          I always found it hilarious that no one in the movie "Hidden Figures" was shown smoking, when in reality the whole crew would have been puffing like old steam engines.

          Probably not in mission control though. The only photos I saw of smoking there were the after-mission cigars.

          And "Hidden Figures" cares little for facts. They show gender and racial segregation at NASA that did not exist. OK, there were was a little bit:
          "Katherine (then Goble) was originally unaware that the East Side bathrooms were segregated, and used the unlabeled "whites-only" bathrooms for years before anyone complained.[19] She ignored the complaint, and the issue was dropped."
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            And "Hidden Figures" cares little for facts.

            They made a conscious decision to incorporate some elements from wider society at the time, and to dramatise events to help convey the character's feelings and struggles. Voice-over internal monologues don't work so well on film.

            That's fairly standard stuff with historical dramas. The goal is not really to give you an accurate history lesson, it's to help you understand the wider issues and the context of the time, to generate empathy and to provide some entertainment.

        • Parent is right. 60% of men smoked in the Apollo Era. Even the submarines had ashtrays.

  • this does seem a bit extreme. Probably more of a "where there's smoke, there's fire" precaution - maybe they think that everyone is smoking up and that's OK, but it seems like an extreme overreaction. Also seems like poor due diligence - if Elon hadn't lit up a joint, then they would just assume that everything is OK, even if the production line is stoned 24x7? To me, if SpaceX/Beoing/etc... are going to be responsible for restoring space flight to the U.S., this should have happened upfront, regardless o
  • Say "fuck it", scrap everything in spacex. Show the government what a loss to humanity a mind like yours would be.

  • Do they think Musk is turning wrenches? Installing fasteners on his launchers? What the f*ck is wrong at NASA?

  • Rope that pony! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by seoras ( 147590 ) on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @10:50PM (#57677852)

    SpaceX is so far ahead with recycling rockets (= lower launch cost & better margins) that the incumbent rocket contractors appear to have pulled some strings to attempt to slow them down or discount them from the running. Someone needs breathing space to catch up.

    In a better world you'd spend 100% of your time focusing on innovating and improving technology instead of wasting time fighting the status quo.

  • applied logic (Score:3)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @12:33AM (#57678120) Homepage Journal

    Because Musk is personally building and piloting those things. Right. Makes sense.

    This american fascination with colourful CEOs has gone too far. What more does it take for you guys to understand that it's all a circus? Who cares? Sure CEOs matter, but not half as much as a good engineering team.

  • He didn't even Inhale. He puffed it like a cigar. He obviously doesnt smoke weed.
  • I have no doubt that the DoD will be joining , or worse, doing their own. Many accusations against SX/musk have been claimed, and I would guess that nearly all were lies and dropped. BUT SX does not have the safety level of Boeing or NASA. This review will show that. The question will become, will NASA or more likely the DoD force SX to obtain that level.

    • BUT SX does not have the safety level of Boeing or NASA

      Hmm, having a hard time coming up with a list of lives lost as a result of SpaceX launches, to compare to the list of lives lost as a result of Boeing and/or NASA activities.

      So, would you share your list of Proof Positive That SpaceX is Unsafe items?

      • where did I say that they were unsafe? I said that they were NOT as safe as Boeing/NASA. I worked for Boeing. It goes a long ways due to lawyers as well as making sure that they will pick up NASA/DoD contracts.
        SpaceX does not cut corners as much as they meet the requirements as they see them. IOW, they will figure out the easy way to meet nasa's wording. For example, consider SX doing the pre-board to loading fuel. Boeing would NEVER do it because of the wording of NASA's. OTOH, SX has no issue with it.

    • "BUT SX does not have the safety level of Boeing or NASA."

      You mean the company that built the space shuttles, and the organization that blew them up, in one case by deliberately exceeding temperature specifications of critical parts? Go on, pull the other one.

      • Having a high safety level does not mean that errors are not made, or that some ppl do not allow pressure to get to them.
        If SX was obeying 100% of NASA's safety rules, then they would not pre-board the crew PRIOR to the fuel. From NASA's POV, that is a big safety violation. It took more than half a year to convince NASA that it is safe (and yet, logic should have told them that it is MUCH safer).
        SX does not follow the letter of the regs, but the spirit of it. As such, they will have other areas that they

  • Is NASA looking into that? Perhaps they should have looked into more of Joe's podcasts and found the one with Mathew Walker. 6 hours sleep equals legally drunk. Elon was complaining a bit about restlessness and lack of sleep. Those would be much bigger safety issues. Alas, weed helps you go to sleep but seems to disrupt dreaming so it's not great to substitute one problem for another....

    But hey, no one looks into sleep. In fact it is badge of honor to sleep less and "work more"....big time macho ignoramuses

  • NASA has paper trail culture not safety culture (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:07AM (#57678866) Journal
    Richard Feynman describes an anecdote. He found that the solid rocket boosters have some 196 bolts around the rim and the bolt and the bolt holes at 12 o' clock and 6o' clock positions were marked. The workers count the holes to 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions to align the heavy booster segment hanging from a crane on a cable to assemble it. He casually added a note saying, they should mark the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock bolts and holes to make the assembly easier without bumping and damaging the segments during the assembly.

    Three years later he got a stack of about four ring binders from the committee that followed up on his casual note. Skipping to the punch line, they concluded, "they can not mark them because updating the assembly and verification documentation would be too expensive".

    Is there any wonder, SpaceX runs circles around NASA when it comes to efficiency?

    Remember every dollar "wasted" by the government is a dollar earned by someone who did not deserve it. We know NASA wastes tons and tons of money. The defense contractors are getting it. That cash flow is getting threatened. They will retaliate like this.

  • Slick way to disqualify a contractor without looking like you're playing favorites.

  • NASA, you're hypocrites! You've killed 14 astronauts! How many has Musk killed?

  • Government investigation into alcohol use by bosses at NASA and in the U.S. Congress in T minus 10 trillion...

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