A New Method To Produce Steel Could Cut 5 Percent of CO2 Emissions (technologyreview.com) 121
An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report via MIT Technology Review: A lumpy disc of dark-gray steel covers a bench in the lab space of Boston Metal, an MIT spinout located a half-hour north of its namesake city. It's the company's first batch of the high-strength alloy, created using a novel approach to metal processing. Instead of the blast furnace employed in steelmaking for centuries, Boston Metal has developed something closer to a battery. Specifically, it's what's known as an electrolytic cell, which uses electricity -- rather than carbon -- to process raw iron ore.
If the technology works at scale as cheaply as the founders hope, it could offer a clear path to cutting greenhouse-gas emissions from one of the hardest-to-clean sectors of the global economy, and the single biggest industrial source of climate pollution. After working on the idea for the last six years, the nine-person company is shifting into its next phase. If it closes a pending funding round, the startup plans to build a large demonstration facility and develop an industrial-scale cell for steel production. The process to produce steel results in around 1.7 gigatons of carbon dioxide being pumped into the atmosphere annually, "adding up to around 5 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions, according to a recent paper in Science," MIT Technology Review reports.
The electrolytic cell that Boston Metal developed was realized after it was proposed to be used to extract oxygen from the moon's surface. "The by-product was molten metal," the report says. "But producing something like steel would require an anode made from cheap materials that wouldn't corrode under high temperatures or readily react with iron oxide. In 2013, [MIT chemist] Sadoway and MIT metallurgy researcher Antoine Allanore published a paper in Nature concluding that anodes made from chromium-based alloys might check all those boxes."
If the technology works at scale as cheaply as the founders hope, it could offer a clear path to cutting greenhouse-gas emissions from one of the hardest-to-clean sectors of the global economy, and the single biggest industrial source of climate pollution. After working on the idea for the last six years, the nine-person company is shifting into its next phase. If it closes a pending funding round, the startup plans to build a large demonstration facility and develop an industrial-scale cell for steel production. The process to produce steel results in around 1.7 gigatons of carbon dioxide being pumped into the atmosphere annually, "adding up to around 5 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions, according to a recent paper in Science," MIT Technology Review reports.
The electrolytic cell that Boston Metal developed was realized after it was proposed to be used to extract oxygen from the moon's surface. "The by-product was molten metal," the report says. "But producing something like steel would require an anode made from cheap materials that wouldn't corrode under high temperatures or readily react with iron oxide. In 2013, [MIT chemist] Sadoway and MIT metallurgy researcher Antoine Allanore published a paper in Nature concluding that anodes made from chromium-based alloys might check all those boxes."
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Coke is made from coal.
Making it from oil would be idiotic ...
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Making coke from oil does not make any sense at all, unless as in petcoke it is the remaining waste product. ... not even mentioning how much coke is coming form other sources)
https://www.worldcoal.org/file... [worldcoal.org] (70% of all COAL used in steel production
Why you get modded down, I don't know. There is a second /. account mimicing a binary number. One of them (you) is only making fun posts which are a so sarcastic it is difficult to grasp them as fun ... most of the time he (you?) gets modded up and down ... :P
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Nearly all coke used in steel production is made from low sulfur metallurgical coal [wikipedia.org].
The American steel industry was located in Pennsylvania because of the quality of the coal there. It is cheaper to bring the iron ore to the coal than the other way around.
Today, the biggest producers of metallurgical coal and coke are Dongbei (Manchuria) and Neimenggu (Inner Mongolia).
Re:The carbon in steel is CO2 neutral?? (Score:5, Interesting)
> I thought that the carbon in steel making was charcoal deriving from trees?
Yikes, dude, they stopped doing that 200 years ago.
They used to use charcoal because it contains very few contaminates. The process of making it, which is lengthy and energy intensive, burns off many of the remaining nasties. However, the cost of making it, and the amount of wood it required, was astonishing, and was the primary reason steel was so expensive.
Everyone knew that coal was cheap and plentiful, but when you tried to use it for steel production the results were useless. Today we know that the problem is the sulphur content, which at the time was simply it's "offensive odour". The solution was found, IIRC, the beer breweries, who were going out of business because they couldn't afford wood to burn because the steel makers were using it all up (one of the reasons lager/pilsner became so popular). They found that if you heated the coal it would off-gas, and when that stopped the result is "coke" and burns clean. This had been known since the 1500s, but never became popular until there was a need for it.
Adopting coke for steel production was one of the great advances of the 18th century.
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I don't think they're talking about the intentional carbon impurities, but the fossil fuel currently used to generate the heat in the furnace. I rather doubt all that energy comes from bio-charcoal.
Sounds like aluminum refining (Score:4, Informative)
In traditional iron smelting, the oxides are reduced by the addition of carbon in a blast furnace, producing CO and CO2 as a waste product. Replacing the chemical, carbon-based process with an electrical process would indeed be beneficial.
Re: Sounds like aluminum refining (Score:3, Informative)
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But steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. So if they are not using a carbon fueled blast furnace, where is the carbon coming from? Are they adding it separately in some other way?
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Yes, and coal contains lots of carbon, and part of that carbon becomes part of the steel. So if they are using electric energy to melt the steel, where is the carbon coming from?
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Who is using electric energy to melt the steel? A furnace uses coke, not electricity.
From the summary: "Instead of the blast furnace employed in steelmaking for centuries, Boston Metal has developed something closer to a battery. Specifically, it's what's known as an electrolytic cell, which uses electricity -- rather than carbon -- to process raw iron ore."
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Presumably, just as with the other intentional impurities such as molybdenum, manganese, chromium, or nickel. The amount of carbon used in the alloy is insignificant compared to the amount used to generate the needed heat.
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Most of it comes from the iron production. Iron ore is more or less iron oxide, so you need to convince the oxygen atoms to leave the iron and go somewhere else. For iron, this is usually done by heating up the ore with a source of carbon. The oxygen ditches the iron atoms and joins up with the carbon, producing carbon dioxide.
It sounds like they've come up with a practical method to refine iron ore with electrolysis instead of thermally. They say it produces less carbon... I wonder if that's including the
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The carbon is not just to take away the oxygen. Steel also needs to contain carbon for strength. But as others have replied, apparently they just add in the carbon afterwards. They tend to do that anyway: even with traditional furnaces, they target a little less carbon content than required, and then add some to get exactly the required amount. So in this case, they'll just have to add in a little more since the molten iron will hardly contain any at all.
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Yes, but the alloyed carbon is a sink, not a source. The carbon you stick into steel is pretty much there for the long haul. The stuff you use to suck oxygen out during smelting goes up the stack as CO2.
The alloyed carbon is also a pretty minor contribution. High carbon steel is under 1% carbon. Mild steel much less. If you were refining pure magnetite (Fe3O4) you'd expect to get two moles of CO2 for every three of iron.
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If they're using coal to make electricity it will be more dirty.
- For heat the blast furnace uses the heat of the reaction directly, while electricity generation runs it through a heat engine and takes a substantial carnot cycle penalty, plus transmission losses, before using what's left 100% efficiently in resistive heating.
- For pull-the-oxygen-off, the blast furnace als
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Also: The new process gives usable oxygen, rather than waste carbon oxides, as its exhaust. Another win there.
Though that win isn't a "less carbon" win unless you can use the oxygen for something else that replaces or reduces carbon emissions.
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[with] a steel production plant right in the middle of a solar array. During the day, it could run off direct solar. At night, you would have giant vats of molten steel. You could run a generator off the heat from that.
There'd be a LOT of value in scavenging the heat from the molten metal to make more electricity. But it passes through the carnot cycle, so it won't generate enough to make a similar amount of steel (and approach a perpetual motion steel plant), by a long shot. Solar hours are ballpark 5 pe
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In this case, where you're burning tons of coal, it's not hard to imagine that there are a lot of places where using electricity would be much cleaner.
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In lots of places (Iceland and Canada, for example) it is. Iceland makes more aluminum than the US, because its electricity is cheaper; it's also clean. It's not hard to imagine steel production moving there if this type of process is viable.
Re:Sounds like aluminum refining (Score:4, Interesting)
Electricity is inefficient.
LOLWUT?
There's nothing inherently inefficient about electricity and it's used in our most efficient methods of converting potential energy to kinetic energy (electric motors), moving energy long distances (high-voltage lines including superconducting lines), and heating and cooling (electric heat pumps).
The reason "the hip thing to do is to electrify everything" is because it's generally more efficient, and even when it isn't (in which case it usually just about matches other methods), it gives greater flexibility in energy sources.
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What methods of moving energy long distances and heating/cooling are more efficient?
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So in other words, these various electric technologies we're discussing are the worst at what they do except for all those other technologies that have been tried from time to time? I could agree with that.
As for not moving energy long distances, that sounds like either an argument for urbanization or for local power generation. I'm all for local power generation if it means renewable power, but it's better to inefficiently pipe in clean or at least futureproof power from elsewhere than to produce power loc
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Electric arc furnaces are used to make new steel from steel scrap; you need (mostly) just heat.. To make new steel from iron ore, you must find a way to remove the oxygen from the ore. Blast furnaces add carbon to the iron ore to both add head and reduce the oxygen.
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Getting Adoption Will Be Difficult (Score:2)
Assuming everything works out, can it produce iron from ore cheaper than existing carbon oxidation based processes? (Probably not.)
Very little raw iron is made in the U.S. now. The iron production industry has moved to China and India, or Europe (including Russia). If it is a more expensive process then governmental action of various forms will be needed to achieve adoption in the places were pig iron is still being produced in quantity.
BTW, most of U.S. coal export is metallurgical for making iron overseas
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Since Trump's "Tariff War" several US steel plants are in the process of being taken out of Mothball status.
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IIRC actual blast furnaces are all in China and Korea these days.
Huge fuckers are now sunk costs, unless there is a process breakthrough, they are unlikely to be replaced.
Steel mills in the west make boutique alloys, usually out of scrap.
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Next: Cement (Score:1, Informative)
Another huge contributor of CO2 is the production of Portland cement for concrete: the current method produces about 10% of global CO2 emissions.
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There should be.
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Re:Next: Cement (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed the correct number is about 4%, which is still huge but is less than half of 10%.
https://www.earth-syst-sci-dat... [earth-syst-sci-data.net]
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While it's still large, the actual percentage is closer to 5% for cement production.
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And cement absorbs CO2 when it sets, so the actual non hysterical number is even lower.
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Where do you see anything about "the largest source of CO2"? Nowhere in the summary or article. They mention "one of the hardest to clean", and that's not surprising, since the burning of carbon is actually used as part of the chemical reaction in the traditional process, and 5% is a massive percentage for a single narrow industry.
As I recall the Bitcoin stuff is all based on projected trend lines, which are poor predictors when looking at infant technologies, but does serve as a cautionary note as to pot
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"Sweden and Finlands effort to replce coking coal used in steel production."
Here in Luxembourg, the site of Arcelor-Mittal, the biggest steel producer of the world they have been using only electricity to make steel out of scrap metal and this for decades.
Using iron ore is so passé apparently.
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Also, cold periods are far more deadly than warm periods.
[citation needed]
Give climate conspiracism the scorn it deserves (Score:2)
This conspiratorial, counterfactual nonsense should be looked down upon at least as harshly as holocaust denial. It's just as clearly counterfactual and almost as clearly denying past deaths, and is more immediately and effectively paving the way for future ones. It isn't merely anti-semitic but anti-human (the latter being a superset of the former), and the scale and immediacy of the harm it threatens and has successfully brought about is far greater.
Holocaust denial aims to bring genocide against Jews, bu
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So even if CO2 caused warming, for which there's no evidence, it wouldn't be bad.
Clearly you've been inspired by the denialist staircase. [rationalwiki.org]
Drop in the bucket (Score:2)
"adding up to around 5 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions"
Don't get me wrong, reducing this is a good thing.
But consider the fact that half of all the CO2 comes from cars. So in other words, improving fuel economy of cars by 10%, which we can do trivially, would have the same effect of reducing emissions in the steel industry by 100%, which is impossible.
When solving a problem, you start with the biggest bang. That's cars.
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I agree that cars are important, but globally transportation only accounts for ~15% of CO2 emissions and even in the US it's ~28%. And that's all transportation, not just cars.
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"Nuclear power can displace large amounts of coal and natural gas very quickly and needs no new technology. Any claims of problems on deploying nuclear power is either a lie, mere politics, or far more easily solved compared to global warming."
Abandoning nuclear is the stupidest thing ever. Modern reactors can be made effectively totally safe.
Most of the high-level waste is gone after a few years and the volume of low-level waste is far less than the mountains of (also toxic) waste from other processes.
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> Modern reactors can be made effectively totally safe
Unfortunately, they cannot be made economic.
That's all anyone really cares about.
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> We will never reach zero carbon energy without nuclear power
False dichotomy: *zero* carbon is not a goal nor should it be. No one is proposing this except people pushing some sort of political agenda, typically to tell us why its impossible, like here. So, as is typical, let's start the stream of completely incorrect BS... 3...2...1...
> Solar power is shit, it costs too much,
Solar power is among the least expensive forms of electrical energy ever introduced by humanity.
In CAPEX terms, it is the chea
Electricity (Score:2)
Where does the electricity come from?
Probably coal.
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> Like who?
Well, Canada for one. Quebec is pretty much entirely hydro powered and has tonnes of excess capacity they have trouble getting to market. In the spring, there are six months of Canada's entire energy behind a single dam at Grande Baleine. And I'm not talking electrical energy, I'm talking *all* energy.
Coast to coast, we're already something like 75% carbon neutral when it comes to electricity, and we already have the capacity and distribution needed to switch all are cars to EV.
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however, it uses up lots of electricity.... (Score:2)
Someone forgot to mention in the lede, any electrolytic process is going to use scads of electricity, just like aluminum refining, and places with iron ore are like down by the seashore, where there is little or no cheap hydro power available. So you're going to have to build HUGE solar or middling nuke plants to refine steel this way. And price is still going to be an issue, as steel at aluminum prices isn't going to fly, not by a factor of 5 or worse,
12 years later, another whack getting investors? (Score:2)
same shit different decade
https://www.newscientist.com/a... [newscientist.com]
Elemental metal via electrolysis requires a hellish amount of electrical power, that's why aluminum is the easy win for recycling since 90% the energy saved.
They could well up carbon emissions if China uses this method with all the lovely new coal plants they're building globally to fuel their offshore manufacturing.
Remember kiddies, it doesn't really matter what the USA does any more for global carbon emissions, it matters a great deal what China's
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a third of the USA's energy comes from coal, it will be hard and expensive and a long haul to change that.
yes, it should be done
but people like you are clueless about engineering and power infrastructure, you know nothing and believe social media hype
Where's the incentive? (Score:2)
Kennicott mines in SLC burn CO2 albeit for copper. Inherently the incentive beyond copper is in gold. The slurry transport system deposits gold in the linings of its tubes which systematically are taken out of production to be processed for their value in gold.
Find the incentive and the electric production method gets adopted FAST
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1) Where do you think the carbon dioxide is sourced from?
2) What do you think would have happened to it if it wasn't put into drinks?