The Military Chooses Which Rockets It Wants Built For the Next Decade (arstechnica.com) 107
The U.S. Air Force on Wednesday awarded funds to three rocket companies to help them complete development of their boosters. The three winners include:
United Launch Services: $967,000,000 for the development of the Vulcan Centaur launch system.
Northrop Grumman: $791,601,015 for development of the Omega launch system
Blue Origin: $500,000,000 for the development of the New Glenn launch system
The obvious company missing from the list is SpaceX, which did not win an award. Aerojet Rocketdyne also failed to win an award since it "does not appear to have a customer for its AR1 rocket engine, which the military initially supported," Ars Technica reports. From the report: These are hugely consequential awards for the rocket companies. Essentially the U.S. Air Force, which launches more complex, heavy payloads than any other entity in the world, believes these boosters will have a significant role to play in those missions during the next decade. And when the military has confidence in your vehicle, commercial satellite contracts are more likely to follow as well. After speaking with a couple of aerospace sources, Ars has a few theories as to why SpaceX didn't win an award: For one, SpaceX has already built and flown a rocket that can reach all of the Air Force's reference orbits -- the Falcon Heavy. Moreover, the Falcon Heavy is already certified for the Air Force and has won contracts. Air Force officials may also feel that, through NASA contracts for commercial cargo and crew, the government already facilitated development of the Falcon Heavy -- which uses three Falcon 9 rocket cores. It also depends upon what SpaceX bid for. The government would have been more inclined to fund development of an advanced upper stage for the Falcon Heavy or vertical integration facilities. But it seems like the military would not have been as interested in the Big Falcon Rocket, which is more booster than it deems necessary at this time. So if SpaceX bid the BFR, that is one possible explanation for no award.
United Launch Services: $967,000,000 for the development of the Vulcan Centaur launch system.
Northrop Grumman: $791,601,015 for development of the Omega launch system
Blue Origin: $500,000,000 for the development of the New Glenn launch system
The obvious company missing from the list is SpaceX, which did not win an award. Aerojet Rocketdyne also failed to win an award since it "does not appear to have a customer for its AR1 rocket engine, which the military initially supported," Ars Technica reports. From the report: These are hugely consequential awards for the rocket companies. Essentially the U.S. Air Force, which launches more complex, heavy payloads than any other entity in the world, believes these boosters will have a significant role to play in those missions during the next decade. And when the military has confidence in your vehicle, commercial satellite contracts are more likely to follow as well. After speaking with a couple of aerospace sources, Ars has a few theories as to why SpaceX didn't win an award: For one, SpaceX has already built and flown a rocket that can reach all of the Air Force's reference orbits -- the Falcon Heavy. Moreover, the Falcon Heavy is already certified for the Air Force and has won contracts. Air Force officials may also feel that, through NASA contracts for commercial cargo and crew, the government already facilitated development of the Falcon Heavy -- which uses three Falcon 9 rocket cores. It also depends upon what SpaceX bid for. The government would have been more inclined to fund development of an advanced upper stage for the Falcon Heavy or vertical integration facilities. But it seems like the military would not have been as interested in the Big Falcon Rocket, which is more booster than it deems necessary at this time. So if SpaceX bid the BFR, that is one possible explanation for no award.
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I hope the pentagon chooses missiles for peace.
In this particular case, you get your wish: the discussion here is about vehicles to launch satellites, not weapons.
For a long time, the same basic boosters had been used for both applications: the orbital launch vehicles were adapted from missiles. But now, that is no longer the case; none of the current generation of orbital vehicles is adapted from a missile
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Spy satellites and nuclear weapons have prevented global conflict since their adoption by the world's "superpowers" by making sure that sneak attack is not possible, and that any fully-involved shooting war would be unthinkable.
Your hopes are reality.
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The fact that you don't understand or at least care about the difference between Tesla and SpaceX is reason enough to dismiss most of the hyperbole and outrage most slashtards are going to be posting here.
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What the fuck does a solar energy / electric vehicle company have to do with military orbital booster development contracts?
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Too Much Rocket, What? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's expected to cost a couple $billion more to finish developing the BFR, although once it's done it's also expected to be cheaper to launch than a Falcon Heavy. It being more powerful seems like a poor excuse when it's also cheaper.
The BE-4 engine is planned to power both the New Glenn and Vulcan rockets, maybe they figure 2 new rockets is better than 1 new rocket?
Omega uses an upper stage made by Rocketdyne so they're indirectly getting funded. It also uses boosters based on Shuttle tech which our govt. loves to push for pork-barrel reasons. They haven't even started development so it's probably going to be finished last, aka cancelled, especially since the SLS makes it redundant.
Anyways, Vulcan, New Glenn, SLS, and BFR should all be ready around the same time, so the 2020/2021 timeframe should be exciting for rocketry (assuming no delays, ha!).
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Too Much Rocket means a fifty-tonne-to-LEO capability when the DoD's payloads top out at 24 tonnes, a fuelled-up spy NRO satellite basically. It's what the Delta 4 Heavy was designed to launch, pretty much. It's possible that Falcon Heavy might get some of those 24-tonne contracts and fly with recoverable boosters but the DoD/NRO only launch one large satellite a year at most.
It might be possible to ride-share a NRO bird with other satellites on Falcon Heavy to use up the surplus capacity but that leads to
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I doubt it: the NRO does not like to share.
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I'm sure that you don't obsess about filling your car with extra passengers and luggage and making sure that you burn all of your fuel when you go on a car trip, right?
I don't hire a 38-tonne 18-wheeler to move some furniture, I'd hire a box van instead. It's cheaper. I don't own a car and if and when I do hire one I get something that fits my needs of the moment, not a BFO pickup truck to go to the supermarket. In the same way the DoD buys rides, not rockets and chooses from a golfbag of available launch
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I don't hire a 38-tonne 18-wheeler to move some furniture, I'd hire a box van instead.
A great argument against launching DoD stuff on the Sea Dragon!
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when the DoD's payloads top out at 24 tonnes, a fuelled-up spy NRO satellite basically.
All you have to do is to ask yourself *why* does a fuelled-up spy NRO satellite top out at 24 tonnes.
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It is worth noting that, so far anyway, the BFR has only ever been shown as a launcher for the BFS - a human carrier with re-entry and landing capabilities. We haven't ever seen a cargo-only upper stage for the BFR - something that could deploy satellites. It's like compari
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We haven't ever seen a cargo-only upper stage for the BFR
You mean something like this? [imgur.com]
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The military isn't in the business of funding unnecessarily risky ventures. The unknowns for BFR are much larger than for the other rockets, so if they have no use for the advancement they have no reason to fund it and may as well make a safer pick.
NASA ought to be funding BFR (and New Glenn) via canceling and diverting SLS funds.
Yeah, too much rocket (Score:2)
That's what happened with the USAF bid for a tanker to replace the ancient KC-135 (based on the Boeing 707). Boeing and Airbus submitted bids, and Airbus init
Re: Too Much Rocket, What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, I get it, to most fragile fat-fingered basement dwellers who lick their cheetos from their fingers and think "Phhbt, had I been there I'd have made Paypal too and I'd be rich" or people who just don't like Elon Musk, its easy to make fun of Tesla.
But SpaceX is doing amazing things, in spite of or because of Elon Musk is besides the point. They have created, for the first time since the 60s, a true space race.
If you choose to conflate what SpaceX is doing with Elon Musk as a person, your opinion is about as informed as your dating profile is honest (you're arguing alone and dating alone, amirite bro?)
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If you choose to conflate what SpaceX is doing with Elon Musk as a person, your opinion is about as informed as your dating profile is honest (you're arguing alone and dating alone, amirite bro?)
Hm. I do conflate what SpaceX is doing with Elon Musk as a person.
I think the fact that he created a fucking rocket company is absolutely amazing and extremely laudable.
Why didn't Gates or Ellison do anything even remotely interesting with their "winnings"? That says something about them too.
ULA is on life support. (Score:2)
Either the ULA is really lucky or they lobbied to ensure specific requirements that SpaceX FH and BFR weren't certified for yet. What this does is give the ULA time to catchup to or copy SpaceX and hope they can somehow compete on price. A decade may seem like a long time but for rocketry it's really not. It's unlikely the ULA will survive once this contract ends without making radical changes and heavy investments. Both are unlikely because the ULA is an agreement between two megalithic defense contrac
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You won't even be bringing your own underwear.
Sounds worse than Ryanair.
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Or ULA's rocket has more than 1100 contractors spread over 43 States. 43 States means a lot of Senators get a warm fuzzy come reelection time. 1100 contractors means a lot of Congresscritters of both types get that same warm fuzzy come reelection time....
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This 1100 contractors thing is why space is as expensive as it is today. ULA only builds a small portion of their rocket systems. They are really an integrator that assembles many thousands of components from many thousands of vendors.
SpaceX's other big disruption was making the vast majority of parts for their kit. That doesn't get discussed as much as it should.
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The need for 1100 contractors to get the required votes in Congress for the budget for space is why space is as expensive as it is today.
Note SpaceX, which doesn't depend on Congress for its R&D budget....
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Re:ULA is on life support. (Score:5, Interesting)
(Disclaimer, I work in DoD)
It will take longer than 10 years because the USAF / NASA cannot depend on a single contractor if multiple viable companies exist. US Govt is required to encourage competition with DoD having the most scrutiny due to having the biggest single chunk of the budget.
ULA had a monopoly prior to SpaceX because there weren't any other viable launch companies (also probably why DoD contractors created ULA as opposed to Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop / Raytheon competing), with Roscosmos "not counting" for security reasons. Once SpaceX came along with a viable platform that business plan went tits up and both Space X and the USAF (political appointees excluded) have been smiling uncontrollably since*.
I am not surprised that funding has been allocated to keep competition up, however it is (personally) concerning that the funding has been allocated so unequally to the various parties.
*-(based on limited personal discussions I have had with USAF personnel on this and the "Space Service")
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Make war with Mars (Score:2)
The problem with Mars is there is nothing for us to go to war over on it. Until that problem is solved, Musk is going to have a hard time convincing taxpayers to part with their money for his hippy peace love space mission.
It doesn't even need to be something logical. If the crypto bubble was still in play, he could have launched a USB drive full of bitcoin there, and we would have had BFR by Christmas.
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Meh. Get all these bitches who scream "1% for NASA!!!!!1111!!!" to write a check for that 1% of their income and send it off to SpaceX. If that would happen the mission would be fully funding in under 2 years. I guarantee it.
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. You can't just write NASA on the check and put "FOR MARS ONLY!!!" in the memo field and get your Mars mission funded. Congress has to allocate the funding to the Mars mission.
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Did you see anything in the comment you're respondi
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The problem with Mars is there is nothing for us to go to war over on it.
All they need is to blow up a small American town, and find traces of Illudium Pu-36 in the ruins.
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Jesus, get your head out of the '60s. The problems, note the plural, are that (a) it's really far away, (b) radiation in the space between Earth and Mars is unhealthy, (c) getting there isn't as hard as getting back, (d) there's squat there that couldn't be ferreted out by a few robots on vehicles.
Since when is the US Air Force "military"? (Score:1)
Buncha damn zoomies wearing bus driver outfits.
Biggest damn military problem they have to solve is trying to fit the runways on an Air Force base around the damn golf courses.
Options (Score:1)
I presume this is so they are not putting all their eggs into one basket, especially as Musk is (dare I say it) a high risk investment. The original plan was in any event to have at least two competing launch systems.
I am surprised that none of the above seeks to advance booster technology significantly, such as (for example) trying to get a viable booster powered by an aerospike engine.
Diversification of supply chain (Score:3)
I presume this is so they are not putting all their eggs into one basket, especially as Musk is (dare I say it) a high risk investment.
The eggs in one basket thing I agree but I think you are hugely overstating the risk Musk as an individual brings to the table. Yeah he isn't the usual mold of CEO (not a bad thing IMO) and he obviously has an appetite for risk greater than most but it's kind of hard to argue that SpaceX isn't a very well run company. The military already does quite a lot of work with SpaceX which is prima facie evidence they aren't bothered much if at all by Musk.
I am surprised that none of the above seeks to advance booster technology significantly, such as (for example) trying to get a viable booster powered by an aerospike engine.
Why should that be surprising? Such advancements are (gen
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especially as Musk is (dare I say it) a high risk investment
Howard Hughes was a bit of an eccentric as well.
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How times have changed [wikimedia.org].
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I'm ashamed to have took so long to get it.
That's presumably why you're posting anonymously
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Man, just now I realised. That BFR is a homage to the BFG in Doom. BFR in reality means Big F*cking Rocket.
Uh, you only had to say the phrase "Big Falcon Rocket" fast and you get it.
(or in a Scottish accent)
I'm ashamed to have took so long to get it.
In Related News (Score:2)
In related news [slashgear.com], today's launch of a Soyuz didn't go very well, causing the American and Russian bound for the ISS to make an emergency landing (abort, presumably).
Soyuz launches to the ISS are grounded until they figure out what the problem was. The Dragon 2 capsule can't get ready soon enough, it seems.
Blue Origin (Score:3)
All of these companies are old school contractors who have handfuls of ex military generals working for them.
Blue Origin is not even remotely an "old school contractor".
Two domestic, commercial launch service providers (Score:5, Insightful)
"This award is part of a portfolio of three agreements that leverage commercial launch solutions in order to have at least two domestic, commercial launch service providers that meet National Security Space requirements, including the launch of the heaviest and most complex payloads."
https://dod.defense.gov/News/C... [defense.gov]
Constraints are Design are Very Costly (Score:2)
Government constraints are often the reason for limited success, even if government funding may also be a catalyst to success. Look at how the Air Force constraints on the Shuttle limited it's potential.. And the Russian government's demanding of their own space shuttle curtailed the development of a truly more useful and affordable space launch system.
The mere act of allowing commercial space launch in the United States is what brought about a flurry of new space launch systems at dramatically reduced co
U.S. Should Only Build 100% Metric Rockets (Score:1)
Tragic (Score:1)
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Study the history of the term "hashich" and you will understand that militaries are not necessarily against drugs.
Or benzedrine. Armies love benzedrine.
Crazy is as crazy does (Score:5, Insightful)
No career military type is going to risk their future on an unstable madman.
Yet they currently have one as their commander in chief so there is some irony for you...
Seriously though, I doubt Elon Musk's (rather mild) eccentricities had much of anything to do with these contracts. The military already does lots of work with SpaceX. I suspect they are probably trying to ensure there is some competition in the market and SpaceX seems to not need a whole lot of help at this point. I would imagine the Air Force would rather not be limited to a single vendor because SpaceX drove the others out of business.
Not do crazy there. (Score:2, Interesting)
Musk as smart enough to hire very capable people for Space X. Contrary to the Elon folklore among his fans, he did not design the rockets and he is not as hands on in the management of Space X as he is for Tesla.
He had an idea for a private space flight company, hired great people and said, "Make it so." and became the rain maker for the business: he gets the business and his people do the rest. Gwynne Shotwell [wsj.com] has more to do with Space X' success than Musk does. Just guess who is the Ari Force's go to p
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Musk as smart enough to hire very capable people for Space X. Contrary to the Elon folklore among his fans, he did not design the rockets and he is not as hands on in the management of Space X as he is for Tesla. He had an idea for a private space flight company, hired great people and said, "Make it so." and became the rain maker for the business: he gets the business and his people do the rest.
And, most notably, went to NASA to fund his vision, who turned out to be the only organization who had the confidence in him and the funding to develop his rocket.
Gwynne Shotwell [wsj.com] has more to do with Space X' success than Musk does. Just guess who is the Ari Force's go to person for Space X? Hint: It's not Elon.
I'll agree with this; Shotwell's contributions are underestimated because she stands in the shade thrown by the charismatic Musk, but she is critical to SpaceX's success
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AC has mischaracterized Mr. Musk's engineering involvement in the early rockets at SpaceX. He has a BS in Physics and a BA in Economics. He was the lead designer in the Falcon 1 and that wasn't an honorary title. His desk in Hawthorne is physically adjacent to the engineering department, not in a penthouse.
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And what allows SpaceX to hire the best people? A company vision set by Musk. Musk's Mars colony goal, as opposed to the "make money" goal of the rest of the industry, is what got him the talent. Whether you are about colonizing Mars or not, it's inspiring to rocket scientists and responsible for the advances we've seen from SpaceX.
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Crazy was necessary to accomplish so many of the things Musk has accomplished. I love crazy engineers, so long as their engineering is sound (as Tesla and SpaceX have proven themselves). Without crazy engineers, we'd all be humping and throwing rocks at each other in the forests of Africa. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are so defensive of keeping the future the same as the past.
And science receives so much funding and privilege over engineering. Scientists are skeptical by trade. Engin
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Ever heard of Howard Hughes?
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As far as eccentric rich people go, Musk is relatively tame. Howard Hughs was far more eccentric, and he nabbed a handful of military contracts back in his day.