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Medicine Science

Humans Having Sex With Neanderthals Gave Us Protection Against Ancient Epidemics (sciencealert.com) 202

An anonymous reader quotes a report from ScienceAlert: A new study argues that we have Neanderthals to thank for helping us cope with the viral tides we encountered as we marched around the globe. Stanford University researchers have identified DNA sequences that evolved in our ancient cousins can produce antivirus proteins, which more than likely gave some human populations the edge they needed to survive. Roughly 1 percent of our genome's coding was written in Neanderthal populations. But this is a broad average -- many families with African ancestry have zero, for instance, while other populations boast as much as 2 percent or more. So the question is how much of this difference comes down to the random drift of DNA being passed on around the globe, and how much is due to natural selection giving those with Neanderthal genes an advantage?

To build a case one way or another, the Stanford researchers put together a list of just over 4,500 virus-interacting proteins (VIP) made by our genome. These were all matched against a database of Neanderthal DNA that could be found in modern East Asian and European human populations, providing 152 VIP genes shared by both groups of human. Interestingly, all of these VIP genes were of a variety that interacted with RNA viruses -- pathogens that include influenza A, hepatitis C, and HIV. This isn't to say these viruses were problems for ancient humans, but rather that similar RNA viruses were more than likely prevalent enough to shape our evolution. The discovery supports a view of genetic exchange described as the 'poison-antidote' model.

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Humans Having Sex With Neanderthals Gave Us Protection Against Ancient Epidemics

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  • by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Friday October 05, 2018 @10:37PM (#57435916)
    Nah, there's no way this is going to be controversial. ;)
    • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday October 06, 2018 @12:51AM (#57436220)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by Anonymous Coward

        Graph of populations with neanderthal DNA and without vs average IQ would be an interesting one.

        That would be best, though we could make some progress without that because natural geographic boundaries have produced step function in DNA mixing by isolating human sub-populations, making geographic location a good proxy for Neanderthal DNA admixture. The genetic makeup of the Americas is complex because of their complex recent histories of migration, but for the old world (Europe, China, Africa) geographic location of populations is a reasonable proxy. Europe and Asia have a few percent admixture wh

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipakNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Saturday October 06, 2018 @04:09AM (#57436570) Homepage Journal

      Nobody is claiming they're superior genes. They offer a different trade-off (greater cancer risk, greater autoimmune disease risk in exchange for a lower risk from a selection of viruses and bacteria).

      • Nonsense.
        Immune system traits are not trade offs ... what a brain dead idea.

        • In fact, while what they try to say can be more or less understood, is basically flawed:
          "how much of this difference comes down to the random drift of DNA being passed on around the globe, and how much is due to natural selection giving those with Neanderthal genes an advantage"

          Well, exactly the same. Unless they provide a new theory of directed evolution, *all* this change comes from random drift.

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          Nonsense.
          Immune system traits are not trade offs ... what a brain dead idea.

          TANSTAAFL applies to evolution too, and even more so than most other situations.
          We only have around 30,000 genes, which are largely multi-purpose and used in combination with other genes.
          Because the gene itself has multiple effects, any genetic mutation is also likely to have more than one effect. Given that any change is far more likely to be for the worse than for the better, this means that any good change is often linked with one or more bad changes too. For the mutation to survive and propagate, the

      • by jedidiah ( 1196 )

        If you can't survive the HIV epidemic you won't have to worry about cancer. The advantage here is clear. If you can survive long enough to breed and have viable offspring, that's all that really matters.

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Matters if the children survive to breed as well, which means having parents, family or at least the tribe being able to raise the children.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      You could equally well argue the other way. There's no way to estimate how many of our genes were Neanderthal in source, because most of them were identical in the two populations. And don't forget the Denisovians, who were also the contributors of many specialized genes, though mainly in Asia.

      FWIW, the idea of species is (usually) a gross oversimplification when descussing closely related populations. There *do* appear to have been reproductive barriers, but they were clearly not insurmountable. I susp

      • You could equally well argue the other way. There's no way to estimate how many of our genes were Neanderthal in source, because most of them were identical in the two populations.

        Untrue. The different proportions of inheritance of the unique alleles from the two species allows us to directly measure how much admixture there was.

        Here is a "water analogy". If you have to buckets of water, and add a drop of dye A to one and a drop of dye B to the other, and then you have a sample that is an unknown mixture of the two buckets, it is a simple matter to tell what the mixture proportion is. It is the relative change in concentration of dyes A and B in the sample. It would be absurd to argu

        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          That analogy doesn't work because the dye doesn't have any effect on the water continuing to persist. A better argument could be shaped around blood types and disease resistance, and it might be in favor of your stance, but this isn't clear because the DNA in fossils is highly degraded, and not evenly so for all nucleotide groups, as some are more resistant to weathering than others.

          The remarkable thing is that we have any residual evidence at all, but it sure is far from complete.

    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Saturday October 06, 2018 @12:13PM (#57438014) Homepage Journal

      I occasionally dip into white nationalists sites to keep tabs on what's going on there, and some racists are actually embracing the Neanderthal heritage thing as a justification for supposed European genetic superiority.

      As usual this kind of "just so" pseudoscience is based on the highly selective choice of data that's always underpinned various racial theories. There are some 20,000 protein encoding genes in the human genome, and if you look for geographic clusters of the 324 million known gene variants you will find some, whether it's for white skin or red hair. If you look at the big picture you find that people aren't that picky about who they have sex with, such that looking for a population that is genetically inbred over the course of more than a few hundred years is a fool's errand.

  • by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <bruce@perens.com> on Friday October 05, 2018 @10:38PM (#57435918) Homepage Journal
    Some homo sapiens sapiens couldn't get a date some evening, but there was always their Neanderthal friend for evenings like that
    • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday October 05, 2018 @11:10PM (#57436010) Journal

      Some homo sapiens sapiens couldn't get a date some evening, but there was always their Neanderthal friend for evenings like that

      The Neanderthals were really the fun ones, but could not hold their liquor. And the Sapiens girls definitely preferred them because they were bad boys, and they thought the protruding brow ridges were sexy.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        All in all it could have been neangirls taking advantage of weak homosapience boys. I saw it in "Quest for Fire".

      • Joking, right? The sapiens males raped the neanderthal females. It's rape culture, unchanged to this day.
        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          Joking, right? The sapiens males raped the neanderthal females. It's rape culture, unchanged to this day.

          I recommend you read up a bit on genetics of Neanderthal and modern man, and especially research on mitochondrial DNA (which only pass through the maternal line) and Y-chromosome alleles (which only pass through the paternal line).
          In short, what you would expect to find if your WAG was correct would be extant Neanderthal mitochondrial lines, but little to no Y-chromosome contamination. That's not what we find.

          Due to scarcity of uncontaminated Neanderthal DNA, most of it coming from a single cave in Croatia

          • I see you are unfamiliar with rape culture. How do people graduate from university without knowing this universal truth?
    • I know it's supposed to be funny, but I'll bore the socks off people by noting we have only found one hybrid who had a homo sapien father. Every other archaeological specimen we know of has a Neanderthal father.

      • On what planet do you live?

        We found thousands of hybrids and hundred thousands of genes that got exchanged from one species to the other. E.g. "red hair" genes and "pain tolerance" jumped from neanderthaliens to sapiense sapiense.

        Bottom line they looked like us anyway with just minor differences, depicting them like hairy apes is out of fashion since 50 years.

        • by jd ( 1658 )

          As best as I recall, only four hybridisation events with Neanderthals, and two with Denisovans, have ever been found. Fewer than a dozen skeletons that are 25%+ Neanderthal have been found. Only a few hundred, certainly not a few thousand, skeletons have been found in total between 25,000-55,000 BCE, the only years that matter for hybridisation.

          • Since about ten years we have in the news every month or every second month findings reported about this or that gene being transferred from Neanderthals to modern humans ... so I doubt it is all based on two or three findings. Basically every news article is referring to many examinations, not just a single one.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I wonder how much of it was politics. Marriage has been used as a tool for brokering peace and trade deals since time immemorial. Women were often the spoils of war too, eliminating your enemies by murdering them and then out-breeding them.

      Fun times.

      • Well, humans tend to want what is best in life -- which, according to a wise man, is "To crush your enemies. See them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of the women."

  • Know anyone?
  • by Anonymous Coward

    ....it looks like the original strain came out of Africa.....then mated with neanderthals creating a stronger, smarter hybrid. They also crossed with a cousin of the Neanderthal called the Denisovans and created another hybrid that was also smarter and better than the original strain.

    Fast forward a few tens of thousands of years and we call the originals "Blacks", the Neanderthal hybrid 'Whites" and the Denisovan hybrid "Asians".

    It's a lot more complicated than that, of course....but it does make sense.

    • No, homo sapiens met Denisovans in Indonesia, on the path out of Africa.

      This conveyed superior capacity for low temperatures and low oxygen.

      Humans only met Neanderthals 55,000-60,000 years ago.

      Many hybrids, such as those in the Red Deer Cave, went extinct.

      There is no superiority. Stronger immune systems are why Europeans suffer from far more severe autoimmune disorders, conditions barely known in Africa.

      It's always a trade-off. We are all specialists, adapted to local needs, as always happens with evolution

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Higher intellect is a superiority.

        The neanderthal dna didnt just give the whites better immune systems. It also gave them bigger, more complex brains.

        Thus, the Bell Curve.

        QED

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          Higher intellect is a superiority.

          No, not necessarily. There is always a trade-off, and some of them are that the computing power on top of your shoulders take up space, weight, has a very high energy need, and increase the risk of death during birth.
          Only when the advantages outweigh the disadvantages to the point of providing more viable offspring will evolution select for a trait, including intelligence.

          It seems inevitable that there have been many cases of a higher intellect being selected against, including stillbirths, and little clev

      • The sickle cell disease that's common in Africa might not qualify as an autoimmune disease, but it's the result of a similar tradeoff.

        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          No. Sickle cell disease isn't an immune disorder. The red blood cells do it to themselves, and then physically clog up the small blood vessels.

          • by jedidiah ( 1196 )

            Sickle cell is a genetic defect. It can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on where you live and how strongly it's expressed.

            Being resistant to disease is generally an advantage. Even the younger crowd of cancer patients have generally lived long enough to spawn the next generation. They're already past the natural human expiration date.

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        You need to rethink your geography. Also the Neanderthals and Denisovians were as human as the Cro-Magnon, artistic depictions to the contrary notwithstanding. There's also no evidence that one group was smarter than the others, but Cro-Magnons did tend to live in larger groups, so they coud exchange ideas more readily. They also had a shoulder that was more adapted to throwing, so they didn't need to get in as close to kill a prey. This was less dangerous.

        • by jd ( 1658 )

          Cro-Magnon doesn't exist as a recognized group any more.

          I go by the fossils, tools and FTDNA maps. Geography isn't much use when they travelled by boats after 1 million years before present. It has also changed due to ice sheets melting.

          Indonesia and China consistently show the earliest incursions from Africa by homo sapiens and the earliest hybridisation events.

          That's the way it is.

      • by Jodka ( 520060 )

        Stronger immune systems are why Europeans suffer from far more severe autoimmune disorders, conditions barely known in Africa.

        There is compelling evidence that one cause of increasing rates of autoimmune disorders at more Northern latitudes is lower sunlight exposure and consequent Vitamin D deficiency; Vitamin D supplementation reduces rates of auto-immune disease significantly.

  • So that’s "safe sex."
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by AdaStarks ( 2634757 ) on Saturday October 06, 2018 @12:11AM (#57436152)

    she decided to marry me.

  • by GerryGilmore ( 663905 ) on Saturday October 06, 2018 @12:52AM (#57436224)
    ...this is pretty interesting in that it demonstrates the value of genetic diversity in helping humans evolve survival mechanisms at the genetic level. We've long known that viral imprinting bestows resistance to certain those viruses, but zooming this out to a more macro level is very fascinating.

    You may now continue with the school-yard level jokes....
    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      It's been known for a while that interbreeding with Neanderthals gave Europeans various genetic benefits. It'd stand to reason that'd include immune system benefits.

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      No, it demonstrates the value of a bit extra fur to entice the other sex.

  • by Martin S. ( 98249 ) on Saturday October 06, 2018 @01:40AM (#57436302) Journal

    'Having sex' didn't give people protection, that is just poor use of language. The offspring from Interbreeding would have the benefit greater genetic diversity.

    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      I prefer the explanation that sexually-transmitted retroviruses modified Human DNA to make us super-mutants. Either that or their coupling affected the morphogenetic field.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Having sex

      Homo sapiens as well as their distant primate relatives had frequent sex, both during a female's period of fertility as well as outside of it. The physiology of the species hides the females estrus cycle and they are receptive to the act of sex when not fertile as well as when they are. This has important implications for sociological bonding within groups. So I think it's accurate to say that they were 'having sex' both recreationally as well as for the purpose of procreation (if they even gave a thought t

  • fucked up.
  • Denisovans branched off from Neanderthals, so if they're not on the list, we would be able to date when the mutations arose in Neanderthals.

    • by arth1 ( 260657 )

      Denisovans branched off from Neanderthals

      This is an incorrect or at least incomplete description.
      The common ancestors of all of us (commonly assumed to be h. Heidelbergensis) branched into the ancestors of both Neanderthals and Denisovans on one side, and our ancestors on the other. Then the ancestors of Neanderthals and Denisovans branched a second time. Before that branch, there were no Neanderthals or Denisovans.
      One of the three "species" is not the offshoot of any of the other, but geographically separated cousins (with occasional mixing) e

  • I keep finding this a weird thing to say; obviously, us and Neanderthals procreated with great success. Therefore we have been the same species, we just followed different migratory paths at different times and later merged again (probably with all kinds of conflicts because that's human nature). "Humans having sex with Neanderthals" thus makes no sense. It's as odd as saying "humans having sex with Caucasians". It makes no sense because we are are the same species. We may not all be Neanderthals like we're not all Caucasian or Asian but we probably all are Congoid. And we definitely are all humans. And so were Neanderthals. Let's stop this weird display phrenology and just call Neanderthals what they were: an interesting group of pretty plain humans.

    (Or am I missing something here?)

    • by zmooc ( 33175 )

      Boy. Forgive my English, but it's just that I'm one of the first generation of humans that's in the process merging with the native English people that followed a different migratory path and now dominate the culture of our planet:p If feel as if this may be very well be the final big merger of human families on this planet, though.

    • by Empiric ( 675968 )
      (Or am I missing something here?)

      You're missing that "species" is arbitrary, but conceptually unavoidable.

      Species problem [wikipedia.org]

      There is no objective physical indicator for delineating a species transition. Science will never offer you one, and never will be able to.

      Of more concern is having a proposed mechanism to differentiate yourself meaningfully not simply from Neanderthals, but from animals in general.

      Are you a Philosophical (as contrasted from Methodological) Naturalist (broadly, "atheist")? We
  • by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Saturday October 06, 2018 @06:00AM (#57436788) Homepage

    It has been long known that breeding (having kids) with those distantly related to you is likely to produce healthier offspring [quora.com]. So: if you want healthy kids: choose a partner who has a different ancestry to you -- domeone of a different race is an easy way of doing it. Having said that what I have said is simplistic, not everyone has equally ''good'' genes, so choosing someone who is: healthy, strong, intelligent, ... is also good -- these are the characteristics that many find attractive anyway. The mating game is largely about producing healthy kids - even if we do not realise it.

    • That's true up to a certain point but once you go too distant, it ceases to be true. Scientists believe the immediate offspring of sapiens and Neanderthals would, in most cases, not have been healthy and might not have even survived, because their genes were not that compatible. That's why only a small minority of Neanderthal genes survived many millennia of natural selection in predominantly Homo Sapiens poplations.
    • The optimum degree of inter-relatedness, as measured by fertility, is one equivalent to being third cousins, see for example this [sciencedaily.com].

    • That is not exactly true. Hybrid vigour is something you mostly see in deeply inbred populations. When we breed different rabbit breeds together to create hybrid vigour we are breeding two inbred rabbits that are still very very genetically similar together to fix the issues of the inbreeding. You don't see the same vigour in healthy populations, and outbreeding can produce some very bad results when it is between two very different animals. Look around, there's a reason that mules, or sheep goat hybrids ha

  • If we're descended from Neanderthals why would we need to breed with them to gain their genes?

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      We are not. About 700,000-600,000 years ago, there was a common ancestor.

      But truth be known, what really happened back then was that some of us were a bit more furry than others of us. A great controversy sprung up about the meaning of fur. Eventually it was decided that the furry ones and the less furry ones would separate into two groups to preserve civility.

      Cats, realizing their chance had come at last, cozied up to the less furry ones knowing they secretly desired fur. They also cozied up to the furry o

  • Humans are, collectively, Captain Jack Harkness!

  • I momentarily read the article title as, "Humans Having Sex With Neanderthals Gave Us Protection Against Ancient Academics". This is plausible on so many levels that I rather think someone should write that article.

  • And humans having sex with monkeys gave us AIDs.

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