What Ecstasy Does To Octopuses (theatlantic.com) 129
Gul Dolen, a neuroscientist at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine who studies how the cells and chemicals in animal brains influence animals' social lives, gave ecstasy to octopuses and recorded her observations. The study, published in the journal Current Biology, suggests that the psychoactive drug that can make people feel extra loving toward others also has the same effect on octopuses. An anonymous reader shares the report from The Atlantic: [Dolen] and her colleague Eric Edsinger put five Californian two-spot octopuses individually into the middle of three connected chambers and gave them free rein to explore. One of the adjacent chambers housed a second octopus, confined inside an overturned plastic basket. The other contained an unfamiliar object, such as a plastic flower or a Chewbacca figurine. Dolen and Edsinger measured how long the main animal spent in the company of its peer, and how long with the random toy. The free-moving individuals thoroughly explored the chambers, and from their movements, Dolen realized that individuals of any sex gravitate toward females, but avoid males. Next, she dosed the animals with ecstasy. Again, there's no precedent for this, but researchers often anesthetize octopuses by dunking them in ethanol -- a humane procedure with no lasting side effects. So Dolen and Edsinger submerged their octopuses in an MDMA solution, allowing them to absorb the drug through their gills. At first they used too high a dose, and the animals "freaked out and did all these color changes," Dolen says. But once the team found a more suitable dose, the animals behaved more calmly -- and more sociably. "With ecstasy in their system, the five octopuses spent far more time in the company of the same trapped male they once shunned," the report continues. "Even without a stopwatch, the change was obvious. Before the drug, they explored the chamber with the other octopus very tentatively."
"They mashed themselves against one wall, very slowly extended one arm, touched the [other animal], and went back to the other side," Dolen says. "But when they had MDMA, they had this very relaxed posture. They floated around, they wrapped their arms around the chamber, and they interacted with the other octopus in a much more fluid and generous way. They even exposed their [underside], where their mouth is, which is not something octopuses usually do."
"They mashed themselves against one wall, very slowly extended one arm, touched the [other animal], and went back to the other side," Dolen says. "But when they had MDMA, they had this very relaxed posture. They floated around, they wrapped their arms around the chamber, and they interacted with the other octopus in a much more fluid and generous way. They even exposed their [underside], where their mouth is, which is not something octopuses usually do."
Internet is for ... animal porn ? /s (Score:2)
I wonder how long the inevitable website(s) pops up ...
This is your ___ animal on Ectasy.
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You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the internet isn't already full of animals doing what comes naturally. And unnaturally.
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TouchÉ !
Octopuses gone wild! (Score:5, Funny)
> "They even exposed their [underside], where their mouth is, which is not something octopuses usually do."
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Peace on earth.. (Score:2)
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Sorry, we only condone drugs that make idiots start fights at football games. Any drug not made by big pharma is evil and must be eradicated.
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I presume by "that drug" you mean testosterone? LOL!
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Everyone start tripping balls on MDMA.
. . . nah, then everyone would start posting here: "Funding secured!" I'm taking Slashdot private!
I thought that the PETA folks might get their bowels in an uproar about giving Molly to octopi . . .
. . . but then I figured that those kind researchers thoroughly and extensively tested the Molly on themselves first, before giving a dose, to the ones they love most.
So, for the follow-up research grant . . . what does Viagra do to octopi . . . ? Could rigid digit octopi save the coral reefs . . . ?
IG Nobel, here we come! (Score:5, Funny)
It's actually kind of a big deal (Score:3, Insightful)
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const likelyFlawedConclusion = proposition.indexOf('obvious') != -1;
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This debate only exists in the minds of religious kooks. It is pretty obvious to everyone else that morality is just a formulation of our pack instincts, with a bit of logical extension to modern circumstances.
Right, it’s an evolutionary adaptation. All social animals have “rules” which help the group maintain cohesion. Ours are just a bit more elaborated.
Nobody denies brain chemistry (unless they're high (Score:1, Troll)
Nobody denies that brain chemistry exists. So it's not "a notch" for anyone. Drugs can make you feel different ways - yeah we've all known that for at least 7,000 years.
Well, I take that back - sometimes when someone is seriously under the influence of heavy drugs, they might think they are having a spiritual experience rather than a chemical experience. But they also think that they could walk through a wall if they really, really wanted to, think they ARE walking when they are actually sitting still, and
Re:Nobody denies brain chemistry (unless they're h (Score:5, Insightful)
> is that Exodus and Moses are Canon
*facepalm*
The Torah is NOT a history book. Take Genesis: It has the lie of omission about Adam's first wife, has contradictory creation stories (Man is created _after_ the animals in chapter 1, but _before_ the animals in chapter 2), has the nonsense of day & night existing BEFORE the sun was made, chapter 4:4 shows that there were humans BEFORE Adam, etc. In Exodus we find nine of the ten commandments come directly out of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. The only ones treating Moses as canon are those ignorant of history.
It is obvious you've never read it, let alone understand the allegory of it.
e.g. Why is Day 2 of the creation is the ONLY day that doesn't say "It was good."
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The Torah is NOT a history book.
That's right, it's five books!
Take Genesis: It has the lie of omission about Adam's first wife,
Genesis didn't have a member named Adam. You mean Phil Collins?
has contradictory creation stories (Man is created _after_ the animals in chapter 1, but _before_ the animals in chapter 2
So he made at least two worlds trying out different orders of creation. Where's the contradiction? If anything this makes it more plausible because it explains why we don't see Spiderman in this world. (He's in the other one).
has the nonsense of day & night existing BEFORE the sun was made,
The sun only comes out during the day because it's scared of the dark. I thought everyone knew that, jeez.
Chapter 4:4 shows that there were humans BEFORE Adam, etc.
Go on any star wars fan site, and they'll all agree the original trilogy is cano
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The Torah is NOT a history book. Take Genesis...
If you take the time to read them, it's quite easy to see that there's a fundamental difference between Genesis (really just the first quarter or so of it) and the rest of the Torah. The parts that read like a mythology are a fairly small percentage overall; once you get past the first section of Genesis, there's mostly just a few brief stories. The last part of Genesis (how the small tribe of Israel fled from the famine in their homeland to settle in Egypt) and the first part of Exodus (a slave revolt a fe
Re:It's actually kind of a big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a pretty big debate on, for example, whether you can have morality without God.
Where is that !? At your local evangelical church or mosque? Even there, it would only be among the dumber, more zealous members.
I mean, not only is it obviously true, but it even turns out that societies share the same moral values, even when individual members have different or no religions.
i.e. religion does not shape moral values, but the opposite occurs.
All over the place actually (Score:3)
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talking points for the Creationist side
hang on, "creationist"? In the developed world (possibly excluding parts of the us?), these are a tiny minority of religious people.
I've seen some great discussions between Dawkins et al and and theists.
But an intellectual debate between a professor of evolutionary biology and a creationist, would be like a running race between Stephen Hawking and Usain Bolt. Just embarrassing. Unless by "creationist" you mean something other than the usual young-earth, created as is, sense.
Atheists for their part argue that morality can exist without supernatural explanations.
Are these creationists sugges
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In America they're 38% of the populace (Score:2)
Folks don't seem to realize how many evangelicals America has. Our Vice President is a Dominionist, for example.
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Folks don't seem to realize how many evangelicals America has. Our Vice President is a Dominionist, for example.
Australia's new Prime Minister (won't last long) is a evangelical (or "happy clappy" as we call them), but I never heard anybody call him a creationist.
If he was, surely the opposition would be making it known.
Senator Steve Fielding has been widely ridiculed for his creationist beliefs, but he belongs to the fringe "Family First" party.
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The argument I've seen (Score:2)
If you ask me it's working backwards from the conclusion but that's their argument.
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I mean, not only is it obviously true, but it even turns out that societies share the same moral values, even when individual members have different or no religions. i.e. religion does not shape moral values, but the opposite occurs.
That's so clearly false on the face of it that's hard to know where to begin.
Take pagan Rome and Christianity, for example. Not the same values, which is why all the conflict.
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Take pagan Rome and Christianity, for example. Not the same values, which is why all the conflict.
Back when it was a small cult? I'm sure you can find plenty of counter examples, but they general trend when you have different religions in one society is for them to share values. Otherwise they'd be at war even more. You could look at the US today, or the Middle East a hundred years ago.
If religion really shaped morality, you'd expect Christianity today to have more than superficial resemblance to the Christianity of ancient Rome.
And the morality of Jesus time bore little resemblance to that in the Tora
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There's no debate about whether you can have morality without God. The only people saying that are the ultra religious.
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There's a pretty big debate on, for example, whether you can have morality without God.
As a Czech, I almost pissed myself with laughter. :-p
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There's a pretty big debate on, for example, whether you can have morality without God. This is a notch on the atheist's side since it implies socializing might have a generalized chemical factor to it.
Um, right, because giving ecstasy to females to make them warm up to strange males is the height of morality ...
I guess you see what you want to see, lol
I often anesthetize myself by dunking in ethanol (Score:5, Funny)
Usually it's towards the end of the evening and I am spilling drinks on myself.
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The real question (Score:5, Funny)
The real question... does ecstasy make octopuses feel extra loving toward researchers? Just think of the possibilities.
Re: The real question (Score:1)
They have a beak, and it bites!
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Jokes about Japanese tentacle pr0n in 3...2...1...
Anyhow, you gotta be high to ponder what it's like to make octopi high.
Re:The real question (Score:5, Funny)
First joke: Can't we just cuttle?
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The real question... does ecstasy make octopuses feel extra loving toward researchers? Just think of the possibilities.
Well, to be fair, Dr. Dolen had just gone through a very bad breakup and was feeling lonely - but not ready to be with another guy.
I prefer octopi (Score:2)
Even though 'octopuses' or even 'octopodes' are etymologically correct and 'octopi' is not. It just sounds better out when said aloud.
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"Octopie" sounds delicious!
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And 8 slices...just right!
obvious next experiment (Score:5, Funny)
They clearly need to try LSD next.
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They clearly need to try LSD next.
I'd say it's more likely that they need to meter doses better. Alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and LSD can all make humans feel on top of the world (or another world) sometimes and like death (or completely out of it) at others.
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They clearly need to try LSD next.
You'll just get gray...all the colors will cancel out.
Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think they would benefit more from trying MDMA on dogs.
We have a pretty good understanding about canine socialization and interaction and can better interpret ambiguous behavior on their part.
And what about trying it on chimps or other great apes? I suppose the argument there is they are SO similar to humans that the effects are probably entirely predictable.
Or is the whole point of this to actually see if octopuses specifically provide human-like responses to mind altering drugs as a means of evaluating
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Even dogs are more similar to humans than octopi.
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I think they would benefit more from trying MDMA on dogs.
Given that the authors are studying the neurology and behavior of octopodes, I think they would not.
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You nailed it, cephalopods (octopus,squid, cuttlefish etc.) forked off from us on the evolutionary tree so far back, twice as far back as the first dinosaurs, that this is the closest we'll likely come to meeting an alien intelligence.
I squirt black ink! (Score:2)
Did they test for Suicide Tuesdays? (Score:3)
....
Been testing out MDA for a bit. Noticed if I do it 4 times in a row with a 100-150mg dose every two weeks the magic disappears on the 4th time. If I do it once a month seems to have the normal MDA/MDMA trip magic, unlike the every two weeks. Now add it about .4 grams of shrooms with a dose of mda 30 min later and good times....
Re: Did they test for Suicide Tuesdays? (Score:1)
Dude...you are depleting and downregulating your serotonin. Stop taking it that often. It should be a few times a year max to avoid long term impact. You will be chemically depressed even if done a few times a month, as it take awhile to return to baseline after rolling.
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I'd say that doing MDMA every two weeks is on the high side, no matter what.
Other than that, you can use 5-HTP supplements to counteract the serotonin depletion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Works pretty well to improve your mood even if you never do MDMA but are just naturally low on serotonin.
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I'd say that doing MDMA every two weeks is on the high side, no matter what.
Other than that, you can use 5-HTP supplements to counteract the serotonin depletion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Works pretty well to improve your mood even if you never do MDMA but are just naturally low on serotonin.
It's not a regular type of thing. I wanted to see for myself what people meant by lost its magic. The magic loss was the shortness of the feel good/euphoria and a longer withdrawn feeling comedown. Normally if I do it say once in a month or two the warm feel good effect is followed by a short withdrawn feeling for about 20-30 min and then back to feeling kind amphetamine kind of high like you body feels a little cold and then as long as I don't do any past 12am usually get tired by 2-3 if I'm dancing and t
Jerome Lettvin knew (Score:5, Interesting)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Lettvin [wikipedia.org]
the onion (Score:1)
Seemed a bit harsh that they subjected these noble creatures to an ecstasy overdose. Reminded me of this skit from The Onion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Compare to previous results on spiders (Score:3)
I know what they are getting at ... (Score:2)
So I take some Extacy and then I get erotically attracted by a male Octopus ... ... where do I find one?
Sounds not to bad
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Japan. Just do a Google search for "Japanese Tentacles" and see what results you get.
Be afraid of what you may find though...
In other words (Score:2)
why octopi? (Score:2)
The reason the researchers used octopuses is not to gather any special insight into neurochemistry that an octopus may provide, but simply because invertebrates are not covered by animal experimentation laws.
Through genetic testing, the authors of this study were able to determine that octopuses and vertebrates all share the neural transmitters that MDMA acts upon.
The authors then go on to ask whether the drug functions similarly in humans and animals when it comes to social situations. I don't know how muc
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They knew through biochemistry that octopuses would have the same response as well. They tested a bunch of animals and listed those that wouldn't have the same response. Then tested one from the list that would.
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... there are tons of studies on the social habits of monkeys, apes, dogs, cats, mice... why not try one of them?
Because they weren't studying MDMA. They were studying octopodes.
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That's a nice bit of circular logic.
Why study MDMA?
We're not, we're studying octopodes.
Why study octopi?
Because we don't need oversight.
Why don't you want oversight?
Because we're doing sketchy MDMA studies.
Why study MDMA? ...
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Because the animals you list are extremely similar to humans, so you'd expect similar responses as humans.
The point was to study a creature dissimilar to humans and see what happened. An octopus fits that bill.
Unwanted attention (Score:2)
Yet did anyone give any thought to the feelings of the one trapped in a basket? It might sound very empathic and touchy-feely to anthropomorphise the behaviour. However if they are naturally wary of others of their own species, then to the target of such behaviour, it becomes intrusive. Much l
Translation (Score:1)
What's Octopus for "I love you?"
#octotoo (Score:2)
Just put it in the water already (Score:2)
A first in many ways. (Score:2)
Gul Dolen, a neuroscientist at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine...
I understand that diversity is a goal these days, but is this the first Cardassian working at an Earth school?
Meanwhile... (Score:1)
How is that cure for cancer coming along?