Some Scientists Work With China, But NASA Won't (wired.com) 52
An anonymous reader shares a report: Inside a sealed clean room near Toulouse, France, Maurice Sylvestre points out something called SuperCam. Sylvestre is outfitted in Tyvex and hairnets, necessary to keep out dust, skin particles, and dirt that could mar the super-smooth surface of his device. SuperCam sits underneath a ventilator hood, glimmering inside a golden-metallic housing. The device is designed to scan the Martian surface with a camera, laser, and spectrometer in hopes of finding organic compounds that could be related to early life on Mars. In two years, this 12-pound, microwave oven-sized unit will blast off as part of the Mars 2020 mission, a spacecraft/lander/rover combo by NASA and its partners that will replace the long-serving Curiosity mission.
Sylvestre is a planetary scientist at France's Institute for Research and Planetary Astronomy, and deputy principal investigator for SuperCam. But he's an international collaborator: Over the years, he's worked on missions to Saturn, the moon, and Mars with NASA colleagues. Sylvestre's lab is currently building an instrument similar to SuperCam that will fly to Mercury on the European-Japanese BepiColombo mission, as well as one called Eclair that is part of a joint French-Chinese satellite. Notably, that makes him one of a small number of planetary scientists who are working with China to boost their science, while doing his best to keep Western technology from getting pilfered. It's a tightrope that not everyone is willing to walk. "We are careful what we are doing," Sylvestre says.
"We understand the security issues. We understand that we should be careful and not be too naive. But at the same time I feel the idea of planetary exploration is for everyone." Working with both NASA and China may seem like a contradiction, or even a conflict. The two superpowers are butting heads on trade, military, and cybersecurity issues. Congress has banned NASA officials and NASA money from going to China. That might be because of a recent history of Chinese espionage targeting US military, aerospace, and technological secrets.
Sylvestre is a planetary scientist at France's Institute for Research and Planetary Astronomy, and deputy principal investigator for SuperCam. But he's an international collaborator: Over the years, he's worked on missions to Saturn, the moon, and Mars with NASA colleagues. Sylvestre's lab is currently building an instrument similar to SuperCam that will fly to Mercury on the European-Japanese BepiColombo mission, as well as one called Eclair that is part of a joint French-Chinese satellite. Notably, that makes him one of a small number of planetary scientists who are working with China to boost their science, while doing his best to keep Western technology from getting pilfered. It's a tightrope that not everyone is willing to walk. "We are careful what we are doing," Sylvestre says.
"We understand the security issues. We understand that we should be careful and not be too naive. But at the same time I feel the idea of planetary exploration is for everyone." Working with both NASA and China may seem like a contradiction, or even a conflict. The two superpowers are butting heads on trade, military, and cybersecurity issues. Congress has banned NASA officials and NASA money from going to China. That might be because of a recent history of Chinese espionage targeting US military, aerospace, and technological secrets.
Re: (Score:3)
Its due to ITAR restrictions. Take it up with the US Goverment.
Not merely ITAR (although ITAR is always a consideration when working with a foreign entity), but there is actually a law (passed by Congress as part of a spending bill eight years ago) forbidding NASA from working in any way with China: https://www.forbes.com/sites/w... [forbes.com]
Missle technology (Score:4, Insightful)
Space program technology is not distinct from missile technology. Any sensible government would be sensitive about rival nations getting their missile technology.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
But Russia already has a hypersonic missile system, and China is closer to one than the USA, with their DF-17 scheduled for 2020. So it seems it's a bit redundant trying to prevent China from stealing missile secrets - they're past that phase and pulling ahead. Time for the USA to start investing in stealing Chinese secrets, rather than defending their own.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Missile development is not linear. Just because one player has one sort of advantage does not mean they have a lead on all possible advantages.
Re: (Score:2)
But Russia already has a hypersonic missile system
Or, at least, Russia says that they already have a hypersonic missile system.
Whether to believe what they say... ah, there's the question.
Dust? Dirt? (Score:2)
Because after all, there's no dust or dirt on Mars.
Re: (Score:3)
I think it's enclosed when installed.
Wolf Amendment (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
As to taiwan, that is a very different matter. Like Nepal, China has raided them off and on over the centuries, but other ppl actually owned it. In fact, with Taiwan, the Dutch have a stronger claim to it than does China. But taiwanese really are the indigenous ppl.
Headline is misleading- NASA CAN'T work with China (Score:5, Informative)
Unless Congress changes the law, NASA is banned from working with China in any way.
Re: Headline is misleading- NASA CAN'T work with C (Score:2, Insightful)
For good reason. China will steal all the information and use it to improve Cup (wrote CCP and autocorrected to cup lol) power at the expense of its citizens freedoms. And then you have 1.4 billion brainwashed Chinese spreading their lies all over the would, including in western countries like Australia and America. It will be slow, but they will slowly erode even more of the freedoms we have here that Chinese don't even know if because of governmenrt controlled media and censorship.
Re: (Score:1)
And it's export controlled technology, so nobody from the U.S. can work with China. And for good reason, considering this camera most certainly won't be pointed towards Mars.
Perhaps..... (Score:1)
the fact that China has stolen so much from the US has something to do with our policy.
Terrain mapping for Cruise Missiles and Satelites, (Score:2)
Not espionage, as it turned out (Score:2)
https://www.google.com/amp/www... [google.com] NASA is a horrible entity for security given it's past failures.
Uh, the link you post cites the case of Bo Jiang [wikipedia.org], who worked for NIA (a contractor that worked for NASA), and who was arrested at Dulles airport on his way to China with a laptop full of information. The papers at the time all said he was accused of "espionage".
Turns out the espionage case against him was withdrawn (link [pilotonline.com]) because he wasn't, as it turned out, carrying any NASA technical information on the computer.
What he was exporting to China on his hard disk was: porn. (Ars Technica article [arstechnica.com]). Turns out
How many chinese scientists on H1B visas? (Score:1)
Count them, and then start talking about your stupid "they took our technology." if you think you can.
You refuse to accept just how much asian and european highly educated and skilled workers contribute to "American innovation".
And it's better this way (Score:2, Interesting)
The amount of foreign contributions to NASA missions (compensating for budget cuts) has been going crazy the past few years. Banning China entirely blocks at least one avenue of this erosion.
He's getting pilfered. (Score:3)
You have to either be naive or stupid to not understand the long term strip mining game China is playing.
The poor guy is clearly naive and in giving him the benefit of the doubt. Scientists are good souls, but sometimes the, "For the sake of knowledge" types get used and abused in this cold world.
There are countless examples of these so called partnerships being extractionary. Chicoms put on delightful little smiles, you make some money in the meantime, and a few quarters down the line your profits plunge and there are a million Chinese domestic knock offs.
For better or for worse, NASA's mission is still partly defense. Even the engineers and scientists at SpaceX know this. Sorry Trekkies, but the main goal of these is to boldly kill where no one has killed before.
The Chinese know this and want access to to the new tech that makes it possible.
Good luck to him, but I hope there's someone out there who is reigning in his information sharing.
Re: (Score:2)
You have to either be naive or stupid to not understand the long term strip mining game China is playing.
The poor guy is clearly naive and in giving him the benefit of the doubt. Scientists are good souls, but sometimes the, "For the sake of knowledge" types get used and abused in this cold world.
Do you really think scientists are "naive" and "good souls? Or do you think that the ones mentioned in the article are just playing both sides to increase their research budget?
If you have ever met an untenured or ambitious professor, you would choose the latter. Funding is tight; exploit all available sources.
It's Tyvek, not Tyvex (Score:2)
Sorry for the nitpick, but I've been working in cleanrooms for more than a decade, and this sort of shit is glaring to my eyes.