Killing Rats Could Save Coral Reefs (bbc.co.uk) 122
The much maligned rat is not a creature many would associate with coral reefs. But scientists studying reefs on tropical islands say the animals directly threaten the survival of these ecosystems. From a report: A team working on the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean found that invasive rats on the islands are a "big problem" for coral reefs. Rats decimate seabird populations, in turn decimating the volume of bird droppings -- a natural coral fertiliser. The findings are published in Nature. Scientists now advocate eradicating rats from all of the islands to protect these delicate marine habitats.
Is "fertilizer" the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
If "fertilizer" is the problem for coral reefs then why can't we fertilize them ourselves?
Re:Is "fertilizer" the problem (Score:5, Informative)
Corals are in fact animals. But they keep dinoflagellate symbionts that are plants. The exact relationship between the coral animals and the zooantha is a bit unclear, but the relationship is apparently beneficial to both.
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The rats are an invasive species, and this is just one of many problems they cause. There are plenty of reasons to eradicate them.
We can wipe them out with a gene drive [reuters.com].
Replacing natural fertilizer (Score:1)
Just how do you propose to apply the fertilizer?
There are a LOT of small islands out there
OH. And how do you propose to create the fertilizer?
The birds are free
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If "fertilizer" is the problem for coral reefs then why can't we fertilize them ourselves?
I was thinking something similar. I've heard a lot recently about too much fertilizer runoff killing the coral reefs. Maybe the bird droppings are somehow different than farm fertilizer and human waste but I don't think so. Before modern fertilizer, "mining" bird dung and bat dung was a common way to get fertilizer for farmers.
Liability (Score:2)
If birds fertilize coral reefs with their droppings, and their droppings have other unintended consequences, nobody sues the birds in court.
Gives multiple meanings to the phrase, "shit happens."
good news for us (Score:2, Insightful)
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It is still our fault because we brought the rats to these islands.
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Did we invite the buck-toothed scum? Did the naked-tailed bastards even pay their fare? I think not!
Kill them! Kill them with death!
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Despite what Walt Disney would have you believe those rats didn't build their own little boats.
On the other hand rat poison is numerous magnitudes cheaper than carbon sequestration.
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Rat poiison is not specific to rats. Laying down that much rat poison, near human food supplies, is likely to cause many other local ecological disasters, especially for any rat predators.
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All you need is about 5 million boy scouts with BB guns. Problem solved. Rats hunted to extinction.
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Don't be asinine. Humans brought the rats to the islands, so the rat problem was caused by humans.
There is also human caused climate change which is changing the water temperature and acidifying the oceans, but that is a entirely different thing.
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Who do you think introduced the rats to the islands?
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"Trump of course is King Rat."
Please. Our neighborhood rodentia have asked me to point out that they are hardworking creatures just trying to eek out a living in a harsh world. They assert that Trump is not one of theirs. For one thing, he's far too large and noisy, and for another, no rat colony would tolerate a member that obnoxious and deceitful. They have asked me to inform you that if you continue to associate them with the president, you will be hearing from their lawyers.
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They have asked me to inform you that if you continue to associate them with the president, you will be hearing from their lawyers.
That's exactly what a rat/Trump would do.
If killing a rat could save some reefs... (Score:2, Funny)
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They can visit at the drop of a hat in order to assess whether it is a credible threat -- and you can politely tell them to sod off. There's a higher barrier for arrest and an even higher barrier to conviction.
Watts v. United States
No. 1107, Misc.
Decided April 21, 1969
394 U.S. 705
Syllabus
Petitioner's remark during political debate at small public gathering that, if inducted into Army (which he vowed would never occur) and made to carry a rifle "the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J.," held to b
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So much for your precious freedom of speech, you tea-stealing rascals!
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"First Amendment. Not a crime to write that. Fifth Amendment. Not providing you with any other statements. Fourth Amendment. No you may not come inside. Have a nice day."
Re: Ambiguity in the title (Score:2)
Law of Unintended Consequences (Score:1)
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Uh, rats are an invasive species on the islands in question, and we in have HAVE studied what happens when you get rid of them on such an ecosystem.
https://www.livescience.com/40... [livescience.com]
If you read the article, it has nothing to do with rat droppings, it has to do with the loss of bird dropping when rats are established as an invasive species complicating birds nesting (or at least nesting successfully) on such islands.
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The islands continue like they had for millennia until we introduced the rats
They're not saying that at all. Please RTFS. All the information didn't even require clicking on a link.
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Re: Easier solution. (Score:1)
Easiest solution is to build a long narrow ramp that extends over the coral reef ,add teeter totter and cheese on top.........
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Not to worry! When winter comes all the Gorillas will freeze to death.
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Is it not the really big rats? (Score:3)
Rats are rapacious omnivores, much like the humans who bring them across oceans in their cargo ships and the humans who concentrate food and waste that the rats can grow their population with. So I'm afraid the rats are a logical result of the much higher human population density near reefs: the local ecology near the reefs fed a much smaller human population without modern agriculture and food imports And I'm afraid that humans do not tolerate the carnivores of rats: they tend to be big enough to threaten our young and our livestock, and many make attractive trophies.
Rats have been co-evolving with humans very successfully. They're going to be very difficult to alter our ecological balance with.
Re:Is it not the really big rats? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Nothing a few kittehs can't fix. Or wouldn't be had that species not domesticated humans to feed and serve them, degenerating to lazy bastards.
Re:Is it not the really big rats? (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing a few kittehs can't fix.
Except the cats would kill the birds too. So you would have to introduce dogs to keep the cats under control as well. Which means adding cars to keep the dog population from getting out of hand. Then the car population gets too big so you have to introduce hipsters to reduce the number of cars. And the last thing anyone wants are islands overrun with hipsters.
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And the last thing anyone wants are islands overrun with hipsters.
While I was quite sure someone will post this joke, your particular take is awesome. You, sir, are teh winrar!
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obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
maybe eagles? they can kill rats and some of the other birds, but they won't eat all of the seagulls.
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Except the cats would kill the birds too. So you would have to introduce dogs to keep the cats under control as well. Which means adding cars to keep the dog population from getting out of hand. Then the car population gets too big so you have to introduce hipsters to reduce the number of cars. And the last thing anyone wants are islands overrun with hipsters.
Cats chase a lot of birds but catch relatively few.
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Nothing a few kittehs can't fix.
Except the cats would kill the birds too. So you would have to introduce dogs to keep the cats under control as well. Which means adding cars to keep the dog population from getting out of hand. Then the car population gets too big so you have to introduce hipsters to reduce the number of cars. And the last thing anyone wants are islands overrun with hipsters.
Thats the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H hipsters simply freeze to death.
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Historically, cats have preferred the fat and lazy seabirds to the hard-to-catch and wily rats with big teeth.
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Rats have been co-evolving with humans very successfully. They're going to be very difficult to alter our ecological balance with.
Uh, the 14th Century has one hell of a different view when it comes to rats "co-evolving with humans very successfully". Tends to happen when a plague perpetuated by them wipes out 20% of the world population.
New Zealand has had their fair share of fun with rats too.
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Have you ever met a cat? I mean, I'm pretty much agnostic and don't ascribe much to god or the devil, but if I were religious in any way, shape or form, I would absolutely believe cats are the spawn of the devil. They're evil little shits even when they're being all sweet and cuddly because you know it's a 50/50 chance the cuddle will turn into a grab and bite at any given moment.
And then the weaving through your feet when you're trying to walk, or lunging at you as you're carrying something big and heavy
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Or walking on my keyboard, posting some drivel on Slashdot. Which will be attributed to me no doubt.
But then there's my nightmare about being attacked by the Alien face-hugger. Only to wake up and find the cat sleeping on my head.
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And feral cats for that matter as well.
*plink* eeeeeek! (Score:3)
And of course, it's good clean fun for all the family!
The rats aren't the problem (Score:1)
The rats are not the problem here, it is the humans that brought them and provide for them with an easy habitat to thrive in. Humans leave garbage and food waste literally everywhere they go, because they are the most disgusting, unhygienic animals on this entire planet. They destroy the local ecosystem wherever they go, replacing it with a myriad of detrimental species, garbage, and waste.
Get the invasive humans off the islands (and the rats they brought with them), and the problem goes away. If the humans
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Get the invasive humans off the islands
We're working on it. A good 100 meter rise in the sea level should drive most of them out.
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Humans are undoubtedly what started the problem, however removing the humans from the area doesn't mean the rats magically pack up and leave as well. While rats are quite happy to live around humans and take advantage of our proclivities, they don't need us to flourish. Rats thrive where they have abundant food sources and little to no predators to contend with. There have been cases of removing rats and keeping them out, but this has thus far relied on natural barriers and a very high level of awareness.
Question -- Coral bleaching (Score:1)
Bleaching occurs because the coral expels its zooxanthellae This happens (mainly, I'm told) due to the water warming.
Question: What is the evolutionary benefit to the coral?
What is the benefit of losing the symbiont and (eventually) dying?
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Letâs kill them everywhere! (Score:2)
Even if the New York subway doesnât have coral reefs.
Also (Score:1)
Palestinians.
James Bond gave us the solution (Score:2)
What about other rodents? (Score:2)
Like mice? :P
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verb
1.
kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of.
"the inhabitants of the country had been decimated"
2.
historical
kill one in every ten of (a group of people, originally a mutinous Roman legion) as a punishment for the whole group
. "the man who is to determine whether it be necessary to decimate a large body of mutineers"
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If you're into homeopathy you do it several times.
And at the end, there are more left than there were at the start.
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If you're into homeopathy you do it several times.
You'd need quite a lot more than several decimations. Assuming that homeopathy starts once the substance goes below 1/Avogadro number dilution, a sample of substance of as many grams as the atomic weight of its particles, requires at least 520 decimations.
And at the end, there are more left than there were at the start.
After a few years dip, indeed. The population of rats on those islands started from just a few rats that came from a ship, there's no doubt it can recover again. And the rats will be those you're least likely to catch. Assuming you don't decimate enoug
Re:"Decimate"... I don't think that means what you (Score:5, Interesting)
...think it means...
But then, you American, aren't you...
To 'decimate' means to kill ONE TENTH of a group, hence the "dec" part of the word...
You're right in that the word originally meant kill one tenth. But it's also worth pointing out that "Awesome" was originally a synonym for "Awful". Somehow the meaning of awesome has completely swapped over time. In the 1800's if you said two people had intercourse, people would assume that they had had a conversation. In the 1800's if you said two people conversed, people would think that they had just had sex.
Words change meaning over time, and yes, it frequently is because people don't understand the real meaning and use them incorrectly. "Decimate" has been used so long (incorrectly) to mean to destroy a large percent that that is now the most commonly understood meaning of the word.
Personally, that grates with me a little too- but I try not to get too hung up on the fact that the modern meaning isn't what I originally learnt. The meaning of words change over time, they always have... All you can do is try and keep up and pick out meaning from context.
Some people think that's awesome, others don't.
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But it's also worth pointing out that "Awesome" was originally a synonym for "Awful". Somehow the meaning of awesome has completely swapped over time.
And neither of them now mean to cause or inspire awe.
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Personally, that grates with me a little too- but I try not to get too hung up on the fact that the modern meaning isn't what I originally learnt.
It shouldn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Personally, that grates with me a little too- but I try not to get too hung up on the fact that the modern meaning isn't what I originally learnt.
It shouldn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
How to selectively quote someone and make it sound like the complete opposite of what they were saying 101.
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What? It SHOULD grate you? You SHOULD embrace the fallacy instead ignoring of it - as YOU DO?
but I try not to get too hung up on the fact
I fear we have a misunderstanding here. Of motives if not of words.
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You completely missed the Roman politician (Suetonius) quoted using 'decimate' in the comments section below your cite. He died in 122 AD...
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...think it means...
That's kind of the crux of language. As long at it means what most people think it means then it has that meaning.
The only one confused by this use of the term appears to be you. Time to get yourself a dictionary from the 1900s.
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It _meant_ have 9/10 members of a group beat 1/10 (selected by lot) of the group to death.
Now it means 'devastate'. Think of all the letters they are saving.
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May or may not be a hoax, but there's not a damned thing anyone can do about it. IOW, can't stop burning fossil fuels. Recently calculated that in spite of the already 52,000+ wind turbines we have, we'd need 52 times that many to power the whole country. There would be a wind turbine in absolutely every frame of every photograph that absolutely anyone took out of doors within the USA. And that is only to replace the electricity that is being generated right now. Add in the electricity required to