FDA Halts One of the First Human CRISPR Studies Before it Begins (technologyreview.com) 109
A trial planning to use the gene-editing tool CRISPR on sickle cell patients has been put on hold due to unspecified questions from US regulators. From a report: CRISPR Therapeutics, which is developing the therapy, sought approval from the US Food and Drug Administration in April to begin the study. The therapy involves extracting stem cells from a patient's bone marrow and editing them with CRISPR in the lab. Once infused back into the patient, the idea is that the edited cells would give rise to healthy red blood cells. But according to a statement on Wednesday from CRISPR Therapeutics, the FDA ordered the company not to proceed with its study until it answers questions about its CRISPR treatment.
Re:proper (Score:4, Insightful)
FDA once in a while does its job, amazing
I disagree, in this case I think using CRISPR on humans might be a legitimate use. I don't agree with using it to try and edit the human genome to make taller offspring, or blue eyes, or 15 inch ding-dongs; but to cure a genetic disease... I think that's wonderful. Using CRISPR to cure certain defined genetic diseases is a far cry from designer-babies.
This is an area that needs careful oversight but we shouldn't just dismiss a technology because we fear a slippery slope or because we think a beneficial technology is creepy.
Re:proper (Score:5, Insightful)
no you have improper understanding.
Medicinal use of CRISPR sequences is in clinical trial stage only, in China and USA.
It is not a proven or approved treatment anywhere on planet earth, nor will it be for a very long time
Having the FDA raise the proper questions is not "dimissing". You seem to imagine they're holding up a line of dying patients
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That is true, and hard to accept.
CRISPR brings promises of curing diseases that are right now causing terrible suffering and early death to billions of people.
Everyone is in a hurry. Many people are desperate enough to submit to experimental treatments, because they are at the end of their rope. In such a situation, getting in front of such experimentation "feels" morally wrong.
The common tendency to confuse morality and legality makes people experience confusion when they see the guardians of food and dr
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I knew several people that were diseased and desperate, and so participated in clinical trials for deadly ailments over the decades. Guess what happened to 100% of them?
CRISPR may not be a breakthrough at all for humans
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yeah but it can take 80 years or more to die for most in the USA
meanwhile, going to clinical trial instead of normal treatments for deadly cancer will shorten your life even more in most cases.
Re:proper (Score:4, Interesting)
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See: https://patient.info/health/si... [patient.info]
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Shouldn't that choice be ultimately up to the patient in question?
It is their life, it should be their choice....
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So rather than fix the process just let people continue to die out of fear of fucking it up for everyone else? That's ridiculous.
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as society we've already made the choice that doctors, medicines and treatments will be vetted. so no, the patient doesn't get to support a quack (legally). yes there are shortcomings and abuses in the system, different topic
Re:proper (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, this is weird, but bear with me.
My dog has experienced a total loss of nasal turbinates, cause unknown, he is a rescue. Subsequent to this he was diagnosed with nasal angiofibromas, benign, but ultimately destructive of the nasal cavity and probably will end with infiltration of the cranial cavity and euthanasia.
Now the oncologist would very much like us to pursue treatment, focused radiation, and then monitor for recurrence, primarily because there is very little known about these conditions. Few dogs receive documented treatment, and so the vet industry doesn't really know how the treatments work, outcomes are indeterminate, and such.
All they want is for us to pay $8,000+ for treatment, with neither any assurance of success, nor any prognosis, and certainly no assurance that a relapse or recurrence won't come, and soon.
And he's the most lovely dog, but I would not pay this for a car repair with similar conditions - *might* fix it, far exceeds objective value, might happen again.
It seems as if this canine oncology practice would love for us to pay to advance the current understanding of this condition. But we were close to asking, if it's so interesting to them, could they perhaps discount the treatment? But nothing about the appointment led us to believe this was anything but a business decision. We've decided no.
We decided to not make our dog the test case. He's probably going to have a shortened but happy life, and we will not let him suffer unnecessarily, which is, to say, very little. He could have been put down in the shelter, so this is a win, and he's such a lovely dog.
While the lure of CRISPR therapy is undeniable, the risks are substantial. The FDA has good reason to demand substantial safeguards, information, and explanations. Look at some of the recent revelations regarding lab tests (Theranos), multiple drug trials ending in failure, fabricated results, etc. Gosh, it seems as if you can't readily trust the industry in general.
This will bump into the 'right to try' movement, but I'm inclined to accept the FDA's reluctance as reasonable. This is a big deal, not as simple as trying it to 'see what happens'. No, it is not.
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Good luck with your pup....great story to hear!!
I lost mine a few short years ago...she lived to be almost 16yrs.
I"m contemplating if I'm ready for another one...they DO bring such joy into your life.
Enjoy yours while you have him...
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> And he's the most lovely dog, but I would not pay this for a car repair with similar conditions - *might* fix it, far exceeds objective value, might happen again.
Sorta.
I think the size of the investment is coloring the decision here. What if it was a $75 treatment? Would anyone be morally opposed to funding experimentation then?
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This is a confusing comment. Medicine has advanced, and many effective treatments were first validated for efficacy and safety through a clinical trial. That's really the only way we know how to do this at the moment. Of course many clinical trials have not had the desired effect and many have had a net negative impact on the patient. That sucks, but what alternative is there?
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not saying there is alternative, my point only that this type of gene therapy is at that early stage where unknown if it will even benefit a human at all for any disease for which it is in testing. The headline makes it sound like there is a magic cure with hordes of dying people being pushed away by FDA bureaucrats, which is nonsense.
Re:proper (Score:4, Informative)
Meanwhile Chinese researchers, not bothered by any of those morality concerns, carry on perfecting the technology. I wonder who's going to be first to market...
Re:proper (Score:4, Insightful)
Meanwhile Chinese researchers, not bothered by any of those morality concerns ...
China has moral concerns. They just reach a different conclusion. After weighing the potential benefits to millions of potential beneficiaries against the risk to a handful of patients (who are informed consenting adults), I don't think their conclusion is wrong.
The West is cautious about medical experimentation because of historical abuses such as the Tuskegee experiments, and Nazi experiments. The Chinese don't have the same cultural baggage.
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Yes, they do, they just choose to ignore it. They were subject to Japanese scientists experiments which were just as ghastly as the Nazis. Then there is the abject horror of the Mao years.
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Meanwhile Chinese researchers, not bothered by any of those morality concerns, carry on perfecting the technology. I wonder who's going to be first to market...
Morality concerns would be the only reason to pursuing these kinds of treatments at all.
If amoral, you let the less fortunate suffer and die, replace them with new humans, and trust evolution to reward the winners by their genes propagating more.
Personally, I'm midway between the two, which some might find extreme enough. I'm all for offering saving of lives and reducing severe suffering, as long as it is always conditional on mandatory sterilization, and as long as suicide and infanticide are also present
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Medicinal use of CRISPR sequences is in clinical trial stage only, in China and USA.
Perhaps.... but what counts as "Medicinal use" ?
Is using the tool to alter cells in a test tube and then re-inject only altered cells back into the body a "Medicinal" use?
Don't think so..... Medicinal treatment would suggest injecting
a CRISPR formulation to modify DNA in the cells that are inside the human body while being modified.
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eh, "medicinal" only means healing. The mechanism and protocol could be anything.
It is unknown at this point if CRISPR use can heal *anything* in humans.
we're far, far from what the headlines imply. I see silliness that are variation on "Governments not keeping up with the wonderful power of CRISPR" . Oh noes, this live-saving tech is only restrained by powerwork!
er no, there is no treatment for humans using CRISPR sequence. no known benefit. no healing of any disease.....only clinical trials exist a
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Usually you have to be relatively sure there are not crazy side effects before you can start human-trials.
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I don't agree with using it to try and edit the human genome to make taller offspring, or blue eyes, or 15 inch ding-dongs; but to cure a genetic disease... I think that's wonderful.
Can we define stupidity as genetic disease? Just look at the consequences of it...
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Various psychological conditions are suspected of being hereditary. And there is no more dangerous condition than to be diagnosed with one that renders you incapable of being a mentally functional human being. For that, they can take your liberty for your lifetime. Without question. And never permit you to be cured.
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I don't think rational thought has much to do with it. Humans pattern match, they don't really think much.
The FDA is covering its ass, and in so doing will cause the deaths of...millions? With the capabilty here, they will literally make millions of people live and die in agony, to cover their mandate and "save" us.
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I think people should be able to design their children. A five foot three inch man and a five foot even woman may want more for their child.
See, height matters in ALL aspects of human society. It's a subconscious reaction because deep down, we're monkeys and we respond to the alphas. And height makes one an alpha.
I wouldn't call being short a curse, except in extreme cases of dwarfism, shorter individuals within any given population live longer than taller individuals. That 5'3" man is going to live longer. Also, being 5' for a woman in a reproductive sense IS an advantage. Men overwhelmingly prefer shorter women. (there are exceptions of course, but shorter women in general get more male attention.
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nah, most of us are beta and lower regardless of height. we have a sawed-off runt running the city of Chicago (into the ground I might add)
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I don't agree with using it to try and edit the human genome to make taller offspring, or blue eyes, or 15 inch ding-dongs
I suppose the FDA are only able to interfere with this study BECAUSE this is a study related to a product for curing a disease or treating a medical condition, and the FDA approval is required for medical treatments.
Using CRISPR to design offspring traits or interesting ideas that someone is going to pursue, and i'm sure it could be a "thing" eventually after we as a civilization ac
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Why not?
I mean, one of the primary driving goals of human parents is to do their best to give their offspring the BEST potential to do well in their life....
If they couldn't start ahead of the curve and give them physical traits (height, brain capacity, disease resistance, heck even traits towards attractiveness)....why not?
It is just taking what parents do now to a higher step.
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Why not?
I mean, one of the primary driving goals of human parents is to do their best to give their offspring the BEST potential to do well in their life....
If they couldn't start ahead of the curve and give them physical traits (height, brain capacity, disease resistance, heck even traits towards attractiveness)....why not?
It is just taking what parents do now to a higher step.
Well, for one, that would be creating a permanent over-class and servant-class, unless it was available for everyone. For another, it would subject children to the whims and fashions of the day. Thirdly, and most importantly, if this were available for everyone it would impact the diversity of the human genome which could have long lasting consequences beyond our possible knowledge. A fashionable gene could end up putting the entire human population at risk at being wiped out by a single disease.
Why not? (Score:2)
You don't, eh? So much for the:
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FDA once in a while does its job, amazing
But is FDA going to be forthright about its 'questions' right away so that a corrected trial can begin without undue delay, or is it going to drag its feet until we see this tech changing lives on other continents?
Not necessarily (Score:1)
FDA once in a while does its job, amazing
That depends entirely on the line of questioning. If it is something along the lines of "we have reason to suspect this may pose a risk to patients due to scientific evidence A, B, and C (citations provided)" then yeah, it's a good thing.
If it is something along the lines of "Aren't you violating God's mandate by editing His(tm) perfect genome and the fate He(tm) has decreed for these patients," which is not something I'd put past this administration (and how intere
Risk borne by patient (Score:2)
FDA once in a while does its job, amazing
That depends entirely on the line of questioning. If it is something along the lines of "we have reason to suspect this may pose a risk to patients due to[...]
The FDA is a bureaucracy responsible for the safety of patients, but bears none of the costs of that safety.
It is in the FDA's interest to make the safety bar so high that medical progress is stifled, so long as safety is its primary goal. Medical companies are always at odds with the FDA, trying to negotiate more sane procedures and reliances.
Taking this article as an example, the patients are completely cut out of the equation. The patients might have a terminal disease with a projected survival of a few
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That depends entirely on the line of questioning. If it is something along the lines of "we have reason to suspect this may pose a risk to patients due to scientific evidence A, B, and C (citations provided)" then yeah, it's a good thing.
I think the bigger question is what the risks are to society and humanity, both if it goes wrong and if it goes right.
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If I want to turn myself into some kind of vampire bat-man that feeds on human blood to sustain my nocturnal life, I have every right to do it, and then to turn to a life of vigilantism for the fun of beating people up and stealing their vital fluids.
No government will stop me, because I am vengeance, I am the night, I am the MAN-BAT!
Vigilantism is illegal in most countries; as is non consensual consumption of other people's bodily fluid. You should be ashamed of yourself Man-bat. I will spend the rest of my days hunting you down.
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illegal monopoly
Immoral? Sure. Evil? Now question; just study history. Illegal?? Me thinks you need to look up the definition of that one.
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Chances are that if you need this kind of treatment you are already a vampire man-bat. You just use an IV instead of your teeth.
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That won't help you in the slightest if you need someone else to open a vein for you.
Measure twice, cut once (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm generally not big on layers of bureaucratic red tape, but for an emergent technology like this it seems absolutely appropriate to take an extra cautious approach for the moment.
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Why do you think you're at all qualified to determine the level of caution that is prudent? The FDA's over abundance of caution has caused, to date, 15 million unnecessary deaths, and that's the middle estimate. They grossly over reacted to the thalidomide scare by causing one and a half Nazi Holocausts worth of death and suffering. Sickle cell anemia may not be immediately fatal, but it does cause suffering, and people should be free to choose what is done with their own bodies.
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Why do you think you're at all qualified to determine the level of caution that is prudent?
Setting aside the fact that I didn't say I personally was qualified, are you suggesting that the manufacturer standing to profit from the therapy is in a better position to determine the prudent level of caution? Usually we prefer not to let the fox totally guard the henhouse.
The FDA's over abundance of caution has caused, to date, 15 million unnecessary deaths
If you'd prefer to nuke or effectively neuter the FDA, then call your congresscritter and advocate for that. Good luck.
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people should be free to choose what is done with their own bodies.
But these people aren't really free to choose. They have a "gun" to their head in the form of a sickness, and they're being told to do whatever it takes at *any* cost to cure it. They're ripe for being taken advantage of by well-meaning scientists hoping to solve their problem
There absolutely needs to be someone to step in and say "Hold up, let's make sure this is a smart approach first." You could tell these people that sucking on a tube of U-238 will cure them and they'd give it a try. Hell, people will g
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I don't know if you actually know you're doing it, but this is a classical fascist tactic. Immediately attack the questioner that they are incompetent to assess the issue. State that only specialists can do it, and the involvement of the interested public is inappropriate. This is of course used to protect a medical technique that may combine extreme risk with low efficacy. It will make someone a ton of money, potentially at the cost of some number of poor people being killed or having their health made wor
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Serious cite needed on this. I cant find *any* reference to this claim online, even the kook anti-govt sites. In fact the only page on the net with this claim, according to google, is this very thread.
So give us a cite for that, or its reasonable to conclude, you just made that up.
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Allow Human trials on terminal patients (Score:2)
Very Hard to Measure Safety (Score:5, Informative)
One problem with these gene-editing treatments is that it is very hard to measure the safety of the treatment. It could be that the company tried to show how it would measure safety, but FDA wasn't satisfied with the process.
Chemical and Engineering News (probably behind a paywall) has an article about how companies are trying to come to a consensus on how to measure safety. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceut... [acs.org]
A huge problem here is that DNA breaks all the time in our cells and gets repaired. That is the exact process CRISPR leverages to make its edits. So, how do you tell a natural break and mis-repair from a misdirected CRISPR edit. Not an easy thing to tell. FDA wants the applicant to show safety, not for someone else to show dangerousness. Proving a thing that is very difficult to measure in the first place is a great challenge, and may keep these treatments from advancing at FDA.
The Europeans have a similar issues with their beta-thalassemia trial. https://www.bionews.org.uk/pag... [bionews.org.uk]
Then ask. NOW. (Score:2)
IF the FDA uses its usual deliberate speed, we'll have CRISPR treatments, oh, after I die from something that could have been treated with CRISPR.
If they have questions, ASK THEM. QUICKLY. Get answers, get out of the way.
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Halt the FDA (Score:1)
If the FDA told me to eat undercooked meat would I do it. No way !
Did the FDA write The Jungle expose that uncovered the unsanitary practices of food handling? No, it was a private citizen, Upton Sinclair.
How many medical/pharmeceutical breakthroughs happen in over regulated Europe? None.
Does it do anything? Maybe, but better off without it.
You cannot stop something that hasn't started yet (Score:2)
So the article is just about some bureaucratic mumbojumbo like _always_ when such trials start.
I guess form 643a got stuck in the mail and now we get a crappy story here.
Tell us when they cured the guys but not every step to get the authorization to begin.
Slight delay on SCD not withstanding (Score:1)
Any agency's motives are open to question (Score:2)
The more coupling there is between corporations and the federal agencies that are supposed to regulate them, the less you need a tinfoil hat to wonder if influential companies might use the FDA to obstruct research that could result in products that threaten their business. We live in an age of medical maintenance, not cures. How long has it been since the last eradication of a major disease? I have to wonder if we'll ever see cures for diseases such as diabetes that support multi-billion dollar maintenance
And...? (Score:1)
What about "Right to try"?
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