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Medicine Technology

New York State Bans E-Cigarettes Everywhere Traditional Cigarettes Are Prohibited (usatoday.com) 541

An anonymous reader quotes a report from USA Today: New York state is banning electronic cigarettes indoors everywhere that traditional tobacco cigarettes are prohibited, such as restaurants, bars and other workplaces. The ban goes into effect in 30 days, after Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed the Clean Indoor Air Act on Monday. About 70% of the state's cities already ban e-cigarettes, so the statewide policy captures the rest, according to the American Lung Association. Cuomo signed legislation in July that banned e-cigarettes in public and private schools. The industry, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates at $2.5 billion per year, contends that e-cigarettes are safer than traditional tobacco products. Smokers say inhaling the nicotine through a vapor produced by the devices helps them quit traditional cigarettes. But the New York State Health Department warned that vaping carries its own risks because the aerosol emissions can include formaldehyde, cadmium found in batteries, benzene found in gasoline and the industrial solvent toluene.
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New York State Bans E-Cigarettes Everywhere Traditional Cigarettes Are Prohibited

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:35PM (#55427799)

    The aerosol emissions can include formaldehyde, cadmium found in batteries, benzene found in gasoline and the industrial solvent toluene. If that doesn't give you a buzz, then nothing will. Better than Testers glue. What's the problem?

    • Re:Sounds like fun (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:43AM (#55428279)

      The problem is: How is it your problem? I could see passive smoke in traditional cigarettes, but I'm still waiting for the "passive smoke" studies of vaping.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by thegreatbob ( 693104 )
        Indeed, it's usually not a problem at all, unless someone is having some sort of physical reaction to their perceptions morality being accosted, or more likely, you're dealing with one of those douche noodles that like to fumigate their surrounding environment with the damn things.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It's annoying. A smoking friend of mine always vapes inside, because it's supposed to be ok. However, it's really annoying when the whole room is filled with a white fog that smells like bourbon (or vanilla or caramel or apple or whatever smell he chooses).

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Opportunist ( 166417 )

          There's a lot of things that I consider annoying in people, does that mean I get to forbid talking loudly, people scratching themselves in private places, people being obnoxious to the wait staff, children in general, people who are visibly sick but still handle my food, ...

          • Re:Sounds like fun (Score:5, Insightful)

            by mjwx ( 966435 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:22AM (#55428705)

            There's a lot of things that I consider annoying in people, does that mean I get to forbid talking loudly, people scratching themselves in private places, people being obnoxious to the wait staff, children in general, people who are visibly sick but still handle my food, ...

            Erm, no.

            If I scratch my nuts next to you, it doesn't affect you. Any issues you have with that are your problem. If someone starts smoking next to me, it DEFINITELY affects me. I'm an ex smoker, after 15 years of not smoking, if someone sparks up in a well ventilated room I will smell it within a minute. Yes smokers, its that bad. Now tell me that if someone has an itchy ball sack, you'll be able to tell if they've scratched it without seeing it.

            Now remember that anti-smoking laws ended up this way not because of health reasons, but because smokers were so annoying and intractable, if politely requested to take their habit elsewhere, they'd stamp their feet like an impudent child shouting "Its my right, my right, my right, my right, my right". So we took said rights away and they have no-one to blame but themselves.

            Sadly the same thing is happening with vapers. I think vaping is good as it's helped several of my friends and family members kick the habit and it looks like its for good this time but there are a large subset of vapers who have no idea of common courtesy and so we're ending up with the same problems as smokers for the same reasons. There's a reason the vape pipe is now colloquially known as a "douche flute".

        • Re:Sounds like fun (Score:5, Insightful)

          by reboot246 ( 623534 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:08AM (#55428691) Homepage
          I feel the same way about your cologne and perfume. Why should I have to breathe those noxious chemicals because you like their fragrance? Some of you don't know how far your smell goes. I can smell some of you from a block away.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward

            I feel the same way about your cologne and perfume. Why should I have to breathe those noxious chemicals because you like their fragrance? Some of you don't know how far your smell goes. I can smell some of you from a block away.

            Indeed, and as I suffer a fairly serious (to the verge of Anaphylaxis) reaction to some of the component chemicals of said colognes and perfumes, I'm more at risk from these than the vapours from vapers.

            I can't remember the name of the stuff, but many years ago I had the 'amusing' experience of being on a London tube train (Northern Line) when someone came on at one station wearing a rather nasty perfume (ISTR banned from a number of restaurants back then), the next station, the carriage emptied almost comp

        • It's annoying. A smoking friend of mine always vapes inside, because it's supposed to be ok. However, it's really annoying when the whole room is filled with a white fog that smells like bourbon (or vanilla or caramel or apple or whatever smell he chooses).

          Not at all different from having people near you bathed in perfume or bad body odors for lack of proper hygiene.

          I can get banning of actual cigarettes, for we knew quite well (with quantifiable data) about the negative side effects of second hand smoking.

          But e-cigarretes? Vaping? Where is the data?

          Are we banning something as a precautionary measure without knowing what the hell we are measuring? Or is it simply because we do not want to offend people?

          Unless I am committing a "fallacy of the exclude

      • Re:Sounds like fun (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Bert64 ( 520050 ) <bert&slashdot,firenzee,com> on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:21AM (#55428485) Homepage

        Exactly, there are no studies indicating wether its harmful or not, therefore i would greatly prefer not to be inhaling a cocktail of chemicals which may have as yet unknown detrimental effects on my health.

        If you want to consume chemicals in a way which doesn't result in aerosolising them and forcing others to inhale them go right ahead.

        • I'd love to see some more studies focusing on the health side as well. But the studies we do have so far indicate that the nasties are either contaminants from poor production (or added intentionally as flavorings), or byproducts created when using unnecessarily high voltage in the device. These are *all* things that could be fixed, easily, if the products were properly regulated. But instead of doing that we start banning them here and there. Isn't New York still locking people up for so much as having a b
        • Re:Sounds like fun (Score:4, Informative)

          by Colin Castro ( 2881349 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:49AM (#55429413)
          There are: Our data confirm that e-cigarettes are not emission-free and their pollutants could be of health concern for users and secondhand smokers. In particular, ultrafine particles formed from supersaturated 1,2-propanediol vapor can be deposited in the lung, and aerosolized nicotine seems capable of increasing the release of the inflammatory signaling molecule NO upon inhalation. In view of consumer safety, e-cigarettes and nicotine liquids should be officially regulated and labeled with appropriate warnings of potential health effects, particularly of toxicity risk in children. http://www.sciencedirect.com/s... [sciencedirect.com]
      • Is there something special about vaping that might change these chemicals' normal effects on the human body? Going through the list in the blurb...

        Benzene [nih.gov], for example, is a gloves-and-hood substance in chem labs, ditto toulene [nih.gov]. Cadmium [nih.gov] is toxic metal which has turned places into hazmat sites, do I need to say more about it? Formaldehyde [nih.gov] is also pretty nasty, and is generally recognized as a poison for a reason; breathing it is highly inadvisable what with it being a poisonous gas, but it's healthier to

  • by superwiz ( 655733 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @12:35AM (#55427979) Journal
    naturally they are going to ban batteries and gasoline next? To make sure their fumes are not inhaled through 2nd-hand exposure?
  • IMHO (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PinkyGigglebrain ( 730753 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:31AM (#55428119)

    Good.

    An eCig may not have most of the crap (tar, etc.) a normal cig has but it still has nicotine, and I would rather not have to inhale the stuff if I can avoid it.

    If you want to ingest a highly addictive and deadly drug fine by me. Just don't do it in an aerosol form around people who have chosen not to ingest the aforementioned drug.

    • by skam240 ( 789197 )

      What you inhale second hand is incredibly minimal. You might as well ban cars from driving near areas where people walk at this point because I guarantee you that walking along New York streets and breathing the air polluted from all the traffic is far more unhealthy for you than breathing vape fumes. https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-... [popsci.com]

      On top of that, almost no one becomes addicted to second hand smoke of any kind, least of all from a vape (disagree? show me an example beyond singular anecdotal experience). Y

    • by Whibla ( 210729 )

      Good.

      An eCig ... still has nicotine, and I would rather not have to inhale the stuff if I can avoid it.

      What about the ones (liquids) that don't, of which there are a large number? What reason do you have for banning those at the same time?

  • Home of the nanny
  • Balance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by buss_error ( 142273 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:21AM (#55428605) Homepage Journal

    I am an ex-smoker of tobacco. I know how the fiend that rides the back of a smoker can crawl up the back of your neck, reach it's talons around, and rip off your face when you need that next smoke. All too well, do I know it. I also know the anti-tobacco evangelists, trying to "do good". Let me give you a hint: You are annoying and irritating. Your urgings to quit this filthily habit moved me not one iota until I had my first heart attack. You see, smoking isn't rational. It's deeply emotional and addiction based. If you aren't addicted, you have zero chance of understanding it, and worse, a negative chance to change others. People that are addicted have to choose to change. Logic, proof, and all the AMA studies in the world won't move a truly addicted person one angstrom. Yes - it's not logical. But it is human nature.

    I've chewed nicotine gum now for about the last 12 years. My addiction to nicotine continues, albeit in a form that (hopefully) doesn't affect others, like smoking tobacco or vaping does. When I pass the smoking area, I wonder now how I could ever have desired it. And yet, I still feel the pull for "one last good smoke" - which I don't give into.

    Vaping, just as smoking, puts chemicals in the air. No difference there.

    To my mind, making your own hell is up to you. But including others in your damnation is not your right. If your actions put nicotine in the air others must breathe, such as smoking and vaping, then your right to do so ends at the effective boundary of others to avoid your chosen vice.

    And again, I completely understand that critter that wants to rip your face off. I suffer from it to this day and I've not had a cigarette in over a decade. But your right to partake does not include the right to force others to imbibe in your vice as well. All I ask is that you consider how you'd feel of others felt they could force you to breathe flatulence. I doubt you'd be best pleased.

  • GOOD! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by p51d007 ( 656414 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:51AM (#55429101)
    If you can't light up a tobacco product, you shouldn't be able to "puff away" a fake cigarette. I can't wait until someone legalizes marijuana and some doper wants to "blaze up" in a bar/restaurant, and is told NO.
    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      some doper wants to "blaze up" in a bar/restaurant

      Welcome to Washington State.

      On a related note: A lot of the 'vaping mods' are done because hash oil volatilizes at higher temps than e-cig juice. And some of those big clouds you see wafting out of car windows isn't a nicotine product. A lot of the push back against e-cigs is because they are becoming a (not well hidden) means of getting high in public. Much like drug paraphernalia has been banned from time to time, nobody is buying the "B..b..but muh quitting smoking!" Chew the gum or wear a patch if you

      • A lot of the push back against e-cigs is because they are becoming a (not well hidden) means of getting high in public.

        When someone is vaping THC, it smells just like it does when someone smokes a joint. It is less intense, and does not hang in the air as long, but the smell is the same. If you want to get high in public without being obvious, you would use an edible. Those are legal in WA, CO, CA, and other states that allow marijuana, right? So why go to the trouble of vaping when it doesn't hide anything?

  • I still believe that bar owners should be allowed to decide for themselves if smoking should be allowed in their establishments.

    I actually feel the same about restaurants but society has long since decided they disagree with me and there is no Constitutional right to smoke anywhere you want.

        At least with a restaurant you can make the argument that everyone should be able to eat without poisoning themselves, but in a bar? Nobody needs to drink and drinking certainly isn't helping your health and I still believe there are enough jobs out there that some poor bartender or server isn't going to be forced into working in a smoking bar if it's really a health concern for them.

    Before the statewide ban on smoking in bars here (in Colorado) some would advertise they were "smoker-friendly". You couldn't smoke in a bar in the town where I lived, but you could go to some bar outside the city and smoke to your heart's (dis?)content.

    Now Colorado treats e-cigs the same as they do cigarettes which I agree is kind of ridiculous and you can't even use an e-cig outdoors in some parts of town here. I'm actually okay with that. I don't need to vape everywhere I go.

    I didn't even need to be told that I shouldn't vape indoors where smoking wasn't allowed. I just knew it was wrong just as surely as I believe outdoor bans on smoking or vaping are wrong too.

    And while vaping is a lot less obnoxious than smoking, let's not lie to ourselves or others. It does produce a smell and it does put chemicals besides water vapor into the air.

    This really hit home a couple of months ago as I was dragged into the non-smoking area of the downtown touristy area of my city. I was really jonesing and to make things worse my e-cig was almost dead anyway. When I did try to take a discreet hit outdoors it just wasn't working well at all. And then I saw a woman just chasing clouds all by herself. She had dutifully gone outside but was ignoring the outdoor smoking/vaping ban and I could smell it from 20-30 feet away.

    She wasn't bothering me other than making me a bit jealous because her e-cig was working just fine and mine wasn't but it kind of struck me that it's not quite as innocuous as many of us would like to think.

    And don't even think about smoking marijuana anywhere in public even if you're allowed to smoke cigarettes there. Or just go ahead and do it anyway. You probably won't get caught, but you could still be arrested for it.

    While I don't mind I can understand other people's objections and we have laws about vaping and smoking anything in public.

    And even before smoking was banned by law some bars were taking it upon themselves to ban smoking all on their own and not just in Colorado but in other states as well.

    If you're a smoker, I highly recommend quitting. I substituted with e-cigs and I still wish I would quit those but it's a lesser evil IMO.

    What really helped me quit was the reaction of the tobacco companies and their distributors and retailers to the big 2009 tax increase on cigs. Even BEFORE the higher taxes went into effect they raised prices and blamed Obama. I saw price increases 2 months before the tax went into effect that were 60% higher than what I had been paying and the tax increase wasn't even close to .

    A 2009 law approved by Congress, the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act, increased the federal tax rate on cigarettes by 61.66 cents per pack (from 39 cents to $1.0066 per pack)

    https://www.tobaccofreekids.or... [tobaccofreekids.org]

    So I should have had to pay about $6 more per carton WHEN the tax actually took effect. Instead I was paying $25 more per carton 2 months BEFORE the tax took effect.

    Fuck those greedy bastards!

    I didn't even quit right away. I kept buying them for months and so they probably figured we were so addicted we had no choice - which may have been true to some extent, but I did quit being an RJR customer eventually.

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