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Medicine Science

E-Cigarettes Linked To Helping People Quit Smoking, Says Study (theverge.com) 203

According to a new study, electronic cigarettes help people trying to quit smoking. The Verge reports: For the study, published today in the journal BMJ, researchers analyzed survey data from over 160,000 people spanning almost 15 years. They found that smokers who used e-cigs tried to quit smoking more often and succeeded (for at least three months) more often than smokers who didn't use e-cigs. Overall, more people quit in the latest year that data was available -- the 2014 -- 15 year -- than in the 2010 -- 11 year. Today's study didn't address whether e-cigs are luring people who would otherwise be nonsmokers. But it did find that e-cigs do have a role in helping people quit. The researchers looked at several population surveys that cover the years 2001 to 2015. These surveys provided smoking-cessation rates, and the most recent survey, from 2014 to 2015, had information about e-cigarette usage. The results show that 65 percent of e-cigarette users had tried to quit smoking, versus 40 percent of people who smoked but didn't use e-cigs. About 8 percent of e-cig users succeeded in quitting for at least three months, compared to about 5 percent of non-users. Overall, the number of people who quit smoking increased by 1.1 percentage points in 2015 from 2011. This might not seem that impressive, but it still represents about 350,000 people.
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E-Cigarettes Linked To Helping People Quit Smoking, Says Study

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  • Reduction? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Calydor ( 739835 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:05AM (#54889713)

    Does the study address whether e-cigs help people seriously reduce, but not quit entirely, smoking normal cigarettes?

    From a family member I can say that getting an e-cig reduced smoking from about a pack a day to two-three cigs a day; certainly an improvement though I have no idea where that would fall in this kind of either-or study. Probably on the "Didn't try quitting" or "Tried and failed" columns.

    • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki@gmTEAail.com minus caffeine> on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:19AM (#54889735) Homepage

      It's not in the context of the study. This one measured decline of smoking rates over the sample period(about 18 years), including using data from previous smoking survey's, it's society-wide acceptance and prevalence and attempt to quit before ecigs became a thing as well as the attempt to quit and successfully quitting after they became a thing. There are other studies listed in the annotations section that would cover what you're looking for though.

      What bothers me, not linked to the study are the number of governments outright banning them or applying the same rules as smoking.

      • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MysteriousPreacher ( 702266 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:47AM (#54889823) Journal

        There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

        That these people group vaping in with smoking shows that they really don't care about health. If these things help with smoking cessation, and they don't carry the passive smoking risks, then why are we being told to go stand with the smokers? I'm actually trying to avoid smoking, yet I'm having to go stand in an area that exposes me to the risks of passive smoking.

        Such things are driven by emotion and ideology rather than any serious concern for health.

        • Re:Reduction? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by totallyarb ( 889799 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:02AM (#54889861)

          There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil... Such things are driven by emotion and ideology rather than any serious concern for health.

          Very much this. What you have to bear in mind is that for a lot of people, "it's bad for your health" was the rationalisation for smoking bans, but not the actual reason. For a lot of people (me included) cigarette smoke is unpleasant and annoying. But a complaint on that basis doesn't carry much weight politically, because it can always be answered with "well, go somewhere else where there isn't smoke, then". The smoker and the non-smoker are on an even footing if it's just a matter of annoyance, and complaining about smoking in a bar would be the equivalent about complaining about loud noise in a nightclub. Don't like it? Don't go.

          But if you can make it about health then the arithmetic changes. If your smoking damages my health (in even the most minor way), then obviously that's way more serious than mere annoyance, so suddenly I've got the political clout to force you to stop. [Full disclosure: I actually oppose smoking bans, but the principle is there.]

          So obviously, with e-cigarettes, those who are really motivated by simple dislike of smoking (and who are perhaps somewhat morally dubious) are going to do everything in their power to try to keep eCigs classified like regular cigarettes - which includes trying to drum up any kind of evidence for potential health risks, as well as tenuous "gateway drug" style arguments.

          • The problem with eCigs is the amount of vapor these things give off. In a work or school environment even driving, the vapor cloud is huge and distracting.

            • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Informative)

              by gnick ( 1211984 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @09:24AM (#54890455) Homepage

              ...the vapor cloud is huge and distracting.

              That depends completely on the preferences of the user when selecting an eCig, adjusting settings when available, and selecting fluid. There are ways to make huge clouds (with which some people seem obsessed), but that doesn't have to be the case. It's not difficult to vape very discreetly if that's your motivation. Unfortunately, allowing people to discreetly vape implies inviting the fog machines too.

            • by arth1 ( 260657 )

              The problem with eCigs is the amount of vapor these things give off. In a work or school environment even driving, the vapor cloud is huge and distracting.

              Only if the user is an asshat who deliberately use e-juices that create a lot of mist (high vegetable glycerin (VG) to propylene glycol (PG) ratio), combined with a low-ohm coil that generates more mist. They're called cloud chasers, and give vapers a bad name.

              I use a 90:10 PG:VG ratio, and a high resistance (1.8 Ohm) coil, and most of the time you can't even see any mist at all. If I hold it in my lungs for a couple of seconds, you can't tell. It's far less than even the least smoke-producing cigarettes

              • As a non-vaper or smoker. These Cloud Chasers who make themselves so visible, make them appear to be the vaping population.

          • What you have to bear in mind is that for a lot of people, "it's bad for your health" was the rationalisation for smoking bans, but not the actual reason. For a lot of people (me included) cigarette smoke is unpleasant and annoying.

            To wit: Until Canada in its infinite wisdom banned flavoured tobacco (including pipe tobacco) I was a pipe smoker. As per my usual routine, i would typically smoke as far away from everyone (aside from other smokers) as possible. However, at a family event (prior to the ban) I was actually beckoned to come closer, and join the crowd because they enjoyed it. Heck, I was asked to light up again because everyone missed the aroma.

        • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:41AM (#54889997) Homepage Journal

          There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

          I think at least a good part of that is caused by the most visible and obnoxious subset of e-cig users: the cloud chasers. Their goal is to create as big mist clouds as possible, by far exceeding what cigarette smokers do. They deliberately use mixes high in vegetable glycerin, and use low resistance atomizers that increase the amount of mist produced to the maximum.
          And completely ruin it for the ones who go out of their ways to be discreet and get a personal fix so they won't go for a cigarette.

          • There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

            I think at least a good part of that is caused by the most visible and obnoxious subset of e-cig users: the cloud chasers. Their goal is to create as big mist clouds as possible, by far exceeding what cigarette smokers do. They deliberately use mixes high in vegetable glycerin, and use low resistance atomizers that increase the amount of mist produced to the maximum.
            And completely ruin it for the ones who go out of their ways to be discreet and get a personal fix so they won't go for a cigarette.

            I think the problem is more cloud chasers that are ignorant of those around them, not necessarily the clouds on their own. I found high VG more... filling than regular vape. And you get away with far less nicotine. But subjecting others to it is definitely rude.

            A co-worker and I were waiting in queue at the drive through at Tim Horton's one winter's day last year. To pass the time we rolled up the windows and domed the car with vape to the point he could barely see to drive forward. The look on the drive th

            • by arth1 ( 260657 )

              And you get away with far less nicotine.

              Not if you use it for the nicotine, as a cigarette substitute. And that's the people the TFA is concerned with.

          • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by elrous0 ( 869638 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:58AM (#54891151)

            I think at least a good part of that is caused by the most visible and obnoxious subset of e-cig users: the cloud chasers.

            Yep, there is a HUGE difference between the moderate vapers, many of whom use it as an alternative to smoking, and the hipster cloud-chaser douchebags who feel the need to compete over who can blow the most obnoxiously huge clouds. Sadly, it's the latter who are most visible and most associated with vaping, though they're FAR outnumbered by the less-visible former.

        • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki@gmTEAail.com minus caffeine> on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:52AM (#54890035) Homepage

          Such things are driven by emotion and ideology rather than any serious concern for health.

          Much like other things, from sex and violence, to video games and literature. What's interesting is just who is pushing for the bans these days. I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but in mine it's the liberal-left(liberal party of ontario), who are pushing the "ecigs are just as bad as cigs, if not worse *insert bogus study here, which was actually a questionnaire and not peer reviewed*." On the flip side, the conservatives see it as a money maker to replace cigarettes and cigars with something far more healthy, but can be taxed at a lower rate. And that gives a two-fold effect. First the revenue would remain the same or increase(ecigs are seen to be far more socially acceptable), but the healthcare costs from smoking would significantly be reduced within 10 years.

          • by gnick ( 1211984 )

            What's interesting is just who is pushing for the bans these days.

            My apartment complex is banning smoking starting Sept 1. No smoking in or within 25 feet of any apartment. Coincidentally, Sept 1 is my quit date. I successfully quit for about 15 years because I was in a relationship with a non-smoker. The biggest hurdle that I have is that my alternatives for satisfying my oral fixation tend to be high-calorie.

          • by elrous0 ( 869638 )

            I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but in mine it's the liberal-left(liberal party of ontario), who are pushing the "ecigs are just as bad as cigs

            The left sought to overthrow the morality of the Church, only to impose their own morality that's become even more repressive and authoritarian than the Church ever was.

        • There are several arguments. One is that vaping leads to smoking, which is the standard gateway drug argument and probably doesn't hold much water. One is that the quality of the fluid that you vape varies hugely depending on suppliers and a few were found to contain benzene (carcinogenic) and some other stuff that you probably don't want. That shouldn't really call for a ban, but for better regulation of the shops that sell the fluids.

          The final argument is that, with some of the e-cigarettes, it's di

        • There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

          That these people group vaping in with smoking shows that they really don't care about health.

          Vaping is very similar to smoking, which is why it can help people stop smoking cigarettes. You equate 'unhealthy' and 'evil', and I'm not sure why. It seems like a way to dismiss legitimate concerns about the possible health impacts of vaping. I think most people would agree that it can be a helpful thing for smoking cessation, but I don't want my kids to start vaping or smoking. I don't think it is evil. At best it has minimal negative health impacts. The real problem with knowing is that there are so man

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The World Health Organization says that passive vaping is probably bad for you: http://www.who.int/fctc/cop/co... [who.int]

          "the increased concentration of toxicants from SHA over background levels poses an increased risk for the health of all bystanders"

          (SHA = Second Hand Aerosol)

          Ignoring the annoyance of people vaping in confined areas, it comes down to the health benefit to the smoker vs. the health damage done to people forced to breath their second hand vapour.

          • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

            The WHO also tried to declare that people who play video games have mental disorders too. Keep in mind that the garbage pumped out by an inkjet or laser printer in an office environment is worse then the SHA of vaping.

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Gonna need citations for both of those rather extraordinary claims.

            • by elrous0 ( 869638 )

              Not to mention the nasty stuff that's off-gassed from all the polymers we've chosen to surround ourselves with every day.

              Living is bad for your health. It is, in fact, ultimately fatal.

        • by CODiNE ( 27417 )

          I agree that e-cigs are helpful for people wanting to quit smoking. My own anecdotal experience however is kids taking it up thinking they're not harmful like cigarettes. Both sides of the argument have their point, neither side completely correct in all aspects. It would be great if vaping were mainly used by smokers trying to quit, the question is how many new smokers is it attracting by being "safer". (I'm not arguing for any legislation, I simply don't believe I have all the answers so why should I d

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Another important question is how many potential new smokers decide to vape instead and so never get the worst of the effects of smoking.

        • Re:Reduction? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Lord Kano ( 13027 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @09:33AM (#54890505) Homepage Journal

          There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

          That these people group vaping in with smoking shows that they really don't care about health. If these things help with smoking cessation, and they don't carry the passive smoking risks, then why are we being told to go stand with the smokers? I'm actually trying to avoid smoking, yet I'm having to go stand in an area that exposes me to the risks of passive smoking.

          Such things are driven by emotion and ideology rather than any serious concern for health.

          I think that these people got so used to fucking with smokers that they feel cheated by vaping.

          They have been working for 50 years to demonize smoking (and smoking should be demonized) in all facets of life. They've been making great progress. When I was a kid, people could smoke virtually anywhere. People could smoke in hospitals. People could smoke in movie theaters. People could smoke in department stores. People could smoke in supermarkets. Now, people can't smoke in any of those places. There is even talk of prohibiting smoking in private automobiles if children are present. There was even once a proposal that could have forbade smoking in private homes if someone else was there to perform work. Somewhere along the way, it stopped being about health and became about fucking with smokers. It stopped being about demonizing smoking and became about demonizing smokers. People who vape just side-stepped them. People who vape get to continue their enjoyment of nicotine while not making everything stink like smoke.

          They've been feeling smugly superior to smokers for so long that they're now addicted to that feeling and they don't want to give it up yet.

          LK

          • by thomn8r ( 635504 )

            When I was a kid, people could smoke virtually anywhere.

            I remember those days, and it absolutely sucked - as a non-smoker - to be constantly bombarded with the stench. Your clothes/hair/skin would stink from all the smoke. I worked in an office with smokers, and they would deliberately choke the place up just to fuck with me. I don't give a rat's ass about the smokers' health - they can die from #include <cancers.h> tomorrow. I just don't want to have to smell it.

          • Just because that's the only reason you can think of for banning smoking doesn't mean it's the reason everyone else wants to ban smoking. I'm one of those people who gets physically nauseous when there's cigarette smoke in the air. In the old days, if I entered a restaurant and there was too much cigarette smoke, I had to immediately leave and find a different restaurant. Flying (yes, they used to allow smoking in the sealed metal tubes with recirculated air that we call airplanes) was absolutely miserab
            • Just because that's the only reason you can think of for banning smoking doesn't mean it's the reason everyone else wants to ban smoking.

              I didn't say it was the "only" reason. I'm talking about why anti-smoking agitprop is being used against vaping.

              Flying (yes, they used to allow smoking in the sealed metal tubes with recirculated air that we call airplanes) was absolutely miserable

              You're not the only old guy here. I remember the days before the complete ban on smoking. I remember when they phased it in, at first it was on flights shorter than 4 hours.

              I've flown from Pennsylvania to California and back on jets where people were smoking. It suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

              You're right, this is not definitive but it should act as a big, flashing, red neon arrow with a sign that says "DO

        • by elrous0 ( 869638 )

          There's a certain kind of mentality that drives some people to see vaping as just another form of smoking, which they also consider to be evil. It's why we see these attempts at laws, particularly under the "think of the children" banner.

          EXACTLY! The AMA/medical profession has, over the centuries, adopted a very quasi-religious tone. To them smoking is a sin, and the only acceptable way to quit a sin is cold turkey. Telling a doctor or health nut that you've quit smoking by vaping instead is like telling a priest that you've quit cheating on your wife by watching porn instead. Their response is "No! You must quit COMPLETELY!"

          I can tell you from relatives who've quit smoking, thanks to vaping, that this does work. And they all say that it's

        • But they're not healthy for you as they contain the same harmful chemicals and nicotine.
        • by sootman ( 158191 )

          > Such things are driven by emotion and ideology rather than any serious concern for health.

          How about plain old respect? Healthy or not, I don't want to smell a giant plume of disgustingly-scented vapor, no matter what's in it.

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            So you never use any sort of cologne or aftershave and only unscented dry application deodorants, right?

            That applies to your laundry detergent and fabric softeners too, of course.

      • Over the last 18 years decline, is partly due to the change of perception of smoking.
        For the baby boomers Smoking was considered a Bad Habit, with tobacco companies backing up their "Science" that it isn't bad for you. The media had all the Adults and cool kids doing it.
        For Gen Xers. The idea that smoking is bad for you started to take hold. With proof that it caused lung cancer, but the media still sold it as cool, and the thing for adults to do.
        For Millennials: With laws regulating the portal of smoking,

        • And watching kids blowing these huge puffs of vapor makes me sick to my stomach.

          Take heart. If those "kids" weren't already smokers, those vapor clouds are most likely made with the 0% Nicotine liquid.

          LK

    • by asylumx ( 881307 )
      Well, if a person reduces or eliminates cigarette usage, but increases e-cig/vape usage to compensate, have they really quit? I know with e-cigs it's reasonable/possible to reduce the amount of the drug included and they *can* be used to break the addiction, but it's not clear to me how often that actually happens. Also, I know people who had quit smoking, but later took up vaping thinking it's OK because it's 'healthy' -- so any way to consider that new uptake in future research?
      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        They have certainly quit SMOKING. No more carbon monoxide, tar, other carcinogens, and particulates. Also no more of the MAOIs that are also present in cigarettes (and greatly increase the addictive power of cigarettes).

        They are left with the nicotine which is probably not totally harmless, but is much less harmful AND much less addictive.

        As for those who had quit and then took up vaping, don't forget to count how many would have gone back to smoking otherwise (it's quite common).

        • Well... and vaping isn't completely harmless; but, there again, it doesn't have to be. It only needs to be less harmful than smoking to be an improvement.

          And as a third party, someone not smoking or vaping, I know which I'd rather endure. I'd much rather be with someone vaping than smoking if I had to choose.

          I'd certainly never kiss a woman who smokes again- but a vaper... if I were single, maybe.

        • other carcinogens

          e-cig vapor likely contains some carcinogens. In much smaller amounts and less dangerous types than cigarettes, we think, but let's be completely forthright about it. Vaping isn't harmless, just much less harmful.

      • Remember that many of those people who took up vaping after smoking cessation would have likely relapsed into smoking again.

        LK

    • I am one of these. I basically grab a cig from friends every now and then, and either buy a pack every other week to give back or just pay back with some puffs of my ecig.

      90% of the time I put nic on my system these days is, for better or worse, through the use of vapor from an ecig. I have been doing this for the last 3-4 years, never being able to quit consistently because a lot of people I hang out, work or spend the weekend with (upper family) smoke. I can say I have felt a (big) lot better, and every t

  • " succeeded (for at least three months)"

    I succeeded to quit smoking for at least 3 months without any e-cigs and that for at least 8 times.

    But seriously, quitting for 3 months only is a joke, you'll need to do it for at least 20 years to succeed sending thousands of heart surgeons and nurses to the unemployment office.

    • It's easy to quit, just have a heart attack. My dad had one 15 years ago at the age of 46 that scared him straight, he said he felt the reaper's scythe graze the top of his head. He hasn't touched any tobacco product since.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by arth1 ( 260657 )

        It's easy to quit, just have a heart attack. My dad had one 15 years ago at the age of 46 that scared him straight, he said he felt the reaper's scythe graze the top of his head. He hasn't touched any tobacco product since.

        Too bad he won't live. But then again, who does?

        My brush with death and heart attacks had no effect on my use of nicotine. The biggest problem was well-meaning people irritating the shit out of me through all their suggestions, based on their fear of death. Being a freethinker, I know that being not alive after I cease living is no different from not being alive before I was born. That's nothing to fear, so I don't.
        Enjoying my time is important; prolonging it isn't.

        • Too bad he won't live. But then again, who does?

          He's had an additional 15 years of high-quality life so far. Pretty good if you ask me.

    • I think E cigs can help smokers quit, and many smokers who want to quit try E-cigs which is probably a big reason why "They found that smokers who used e-cigs tried to quit smoking more often and succeeded (for at least three months) more often than smokers who didn't use e-cigs. "

      That statistic itself doesn't really tell us the E-Cigs are more helpful because smokers who don't try E-cigs may be less motivated to quit to begin with.
    • Motivation is key, and telling yourself years and years of non-smoking are a whole different victory is your prerogative. I look at your statement and I immediately think about the AA medal system, and how effective it is. Good for you.

      But the formal definition of quitting is as soon as the chemical addiction stops, and that's some months after (not sure if 3, but should be close). So you see, the study is very relevant. Sure there is a latent, deeply buried feeling that a hit will be good - it happens on a

  • by toucan_mathieu ( 2542000 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:43AM (#54889819)
    8 percent is still an awfully low success rate. personally i tried to quit cigarettes several times with the patch, nicotine gum, and vaping with plain nicotine, but always went back to smoking after about a week. now it's been almost 3 years since i quit for good, and what made the difference was vaping liquid with "whole tobacco alkaloids" (WTA), meaning they add not only nicotine but also 3 other psychoactive compounds from the tobacco. no more cigarette cravings, hundreds of times less toxic than smoking. end of public service announcement.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:13AM (#54889915)

      I quit a couple of years ago after being an nicotine addict (quite heavy) for about 20 years ... One morning i just stopped..
      I did fail a couple of times due to different circumstances, but it was just a smoke or two while being weak..

      What i learnt from this...
      - First week is terrible.. Try to have everything you need at home, and loads of things to keep you occupied.
      - Patches just prolongs your addiction.. Try to stay away from them... (but we are all different)
      - Stay away from secondhand smoke for the first 2 months or so..... For me it caused big cravings that where really hard to ignore..
      - Stay away from nicotine completely at least for the first 2 years.. A single smoke during this time can make you have another round of cravings.
      - For the first 6 months try to stay away from stress.... At least the one that is continuous for multiple weeks.

      If you tell, and possibly plan for things in advance, most people around you will understand and even help you.. Including your boss..

      But all of this is my own experience from the ordeal.. But i hope it may help others that want to quit too..

      The feeling from waking up in the morning without wanting to have a smoke... And not stressing out because you are out of smokes before going to bed... Or spending 12+ hours on a long flight... Or having thousands of $ extra per year to spend on things i like.. Or the realization when you eat food after a few months and realize that everything tastes more now when your sense of smell and taste has been restored. Or missing to go outside in the middle of the winter just to have smoke..

      Good luck to anyone else that is planning to quit... Remember to plan a bit ahead.. If you fail try to learn from why you failed and jump back on the horse..

       

      • I quit a couple of years ago after being an nicotine addict (quite heavy) for about 20 years ... One morning i just stopped..

        Its been many years since I quit. I started in high school and quit soon after college. I failed when I tried the 'I'll just finish this pack" method. One day I woke up and said "that cigarette I smoked last night was my last", none of that just one more crap.

    • by daniel23 ( 605413 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:37AM (#54889983)

      I was hunting for that stuff when I started the transition from a moderate long time smoker to vaping. WTA is unavailable in Europe, the best I could find was drinking tea of maracuja flowers (which happen to carry higher levels of some of the alkaloids).
      I did some other things to strengthen my back, like documenting every single day in a huge excell sheet. Sounds anal but it helped me in many weak moments to look at the column of pyro-free days and tell myself I'd have to start new all over if I smoke a cig now.

      Smoking for >42 years. Vaping for 528 days now, with a period of mixed use of just one month. I never thought I could let go of tobacco until I got that box with an usb port that even lets me fiddle with its firmware so I can run an open source firmware on it

      There is a lot of anti vape propaganda around, the government hates me avoiding tobacco taxes, anti-addiction fundamentalists happily join with big tobacco lobbyist to push all sorts of FUD against vaping. The tobacco industry looks at dwindling sales and the anti-addiction evangelists fear for once guaranteed funding.

      The talk of health is just that, talk. If health organisations like the WHO were seriously trying to help reduce the health impact of smoking they would at least research the phenomenon before opposing it. But vaping as a way out of smoking endangers the position of professional tabacco abuse specialists, simply because they are not needed for it and it wasn't their idea. Vaping emerged in a grass root way, uncontrolled by institutions or corporations and the opponents of vaping agree that this is unacceptable.

      • details regarding the 'missing' alkaloids:
        https://www.e-cigarette-forum.... [e-cigarette-forum.com]
        https://www.e-cigarette-forum.... [e-cigarette-forum.com]

      • the government hates me avoiding tobacco taxes

        I think that there is a lot to this. Would any politician be honest enough to admit it though?

        I recall something about how some politician saying we should increase tobacco taxes to discourage smoking and pay for child health care. So, what happens if this works? Do children go without healthcare? Does this not create a perverse incentive to not quit because a person can claim that with every pack some kid gets care they might not otherwise?

        I'll believe that the government wants to get rid of smoking wh

    • by skipkent ( 1510 )

      I used General Snus, some Swedish spitless tobacco. It's easy, doesn't stink, doesn't make you gag or need to carry around a giant mudjug everywhere you go, tastes like Earl Grey, and is dirt cheap! I was a heavy pack or pack and a half smoker prior to trying snus, but it killed the cravings and I was able to just ween myself off, and it had a good psycho effect of my knowing it was nicotine and real tobacco.

      The only thing I miss about smoking is the mandatory smoke breaks lol. During stressful or crunch

    • Can you suggest a brand of liquid?

      • I've had a great experience with these guys:

        https://www.vapejoose.com/ [vapejoose.com]

        Very high quality e-liquids, great variety including "build a bottle" custom mix/flavor/nicotine options, great e-liquid prices, and fast service.

        Strat

  • Long-time smoker here, smoked for 30 years, quit over a period of a year, and for 30 more years have never once ever wanted to smoke a cigarette again.

    The key is this: you never, ever "need" to smoke. In fact, just the opposite, you have to force your body to accept smoking. Just remember how sick you got at the beginning. That's how much your normal body doesn't like smoke. It's an irritant! What kind of crazy logic is it to intentionally breathe in smoke?

    I sat down 30 years ago and made a list of all the pros and cons of smoking. Honestly, there are a lot of things on both sides of that list, it surprised me. But when you net it out, what remains is this: all that smoking gives you is the desire to have another cigarette.

    In other words, it's a cheat. I try to not do stupid things. Cheating yourself is colossally stupid.

    Go cold turkey. Forget about walking up to it, attack it head-on. It took me three attempts, each one much easier to maintain than the last.

    You can do this. Your body will thank you.

    • by arth1 ( 260657 )

      The key is this: you never, ever "need" to smoke. In fact, just the opposite, you have to force your body to accept smoking. Just remember how sick you got at the beginning. That's how much your normal body doesn't like smoke.

      No sickness at all when I started smoking at age 13. What I experienced was just a very pleasant rush of clear thinking and stress reduction. The smoke itself was far less noxious to me than, say, street exhaust or snuffing a candle.
      The only times I felt sick were when I crammed in as much smoking as possible in a short time, because I wouldn't be able to for a long time. That would make me clammy. However, I blame teachers and parents for that - if they'd let me have a five minute smoke break every no

    • That's very good advice, but as many people know, it doesnt work on everyone. The good thing about ecigs is that they do not discriminate - they work on motivated, demotivated, lack of self-esteem or not people. And they DO work as seen on many many studies.

      Ecigs are, for many, the only way they can attack the habit head on. Like for many it is going to a doctor. Some people don't even have the creativity of thinking about cold-turkey strategies like you did. I commend you for it, but do not extrapolate you

  • My success... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by beheaderaswp ( 549877 ) * on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:31AM (#54889969)

    I had my last cigarette June 5th 2010. That's when I started "vaping" with the very primitive equipment available then.

    It wasn't easy. Cigarettes create a cross addiction not only to nicotine, but to at least 4 chemicals in the smoke which are MAOI inhibitors (anti-depressants). So as a 30 year smoker I did have withdrawals, but not nearly as bad and quitting cold turkey.

    I tried all the alternatives... Chantix cause major health problems.... Welbutrin made me manic.... Celexa put me in a state of mind where if not careful my behavior could be more reckless than my normal measured self. Patches and gums worked- but only if I were willing to use them to the point of nicotine overdose. Cold turkey was a no go.... roughly 10 attempts were made... impossible for me.

    That being said vaping is not a vitamin. It delivers nicotine. And it's addictive. It's not a good thing.

    But if you are trapped by tobacco and willing to work at it- it can be a good thing. For smokers trapped by the habit only.

    Anyone else who is into vaping for "sport" or "cool factor" are just fools.

    • What exactly is wrong with a little wellbutrin induced hypomania? I mean, I am not a smoker, never have been, took that stuff to help with my depression, and frankly, it was really enjoyable for a while. Alas, it didn't last.

    • It really is easier to quit- just halve the nicotine every time you buy juice and in a few weeks you are down to nothing. You are aware of being slightly uncomfortable but nothing like the 3 or 4 days of misery from cold turkey.
    • Re:My success... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Orgasmatron ( 8103 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @09:43AM (#54890563)

      Once upon a time, I read pretty much every post made on ECF. Between that and me talking to other people, I think I've heard over 1000 stories from people who have quit, or tried to quit, or intend to keep smoking after exposure to electronic cigarettes. I have come to the conclusion that different people have different levels to tendency towards addiction to the other alkyloids.

      The short version is that personal anecdotes don't necessarily apply to you.

      If someone is not at all addictable by other alkyloids, they pick up an e-cigarette one day, and never smoke again. Which is fantastic for them, but when they generalize that to everyone, they can cause a lot of harm. (note to beheaderaswp, I'm not accusing you of this - your post just seemed like the logical place to post this) Genetically thin people have a similar problem - they ascribe their thinness to some imaginary moral virtue and then berate others for not exercising this virtue they think they have.

      Different people have different tendencies to gain weight. Some stay thin no matter what they do. Some people are OK as long as their eating isn't completely stupid. Other people need to be very active and careful about controlling their diet if they want to stay thin. Similar thing to smoking addiction - some people just aren't wired for it, some people will get addicted, but can quit without too much difficulty, and some people, once exposed, will not be able to live a normal life without it ever again. And there is a diverse range in between the extremes.

      So, if a personal anecdote doesn't apply to you, what then? The good news is that there are a LOT of anecdotes out there. Read enough of them and you'll come up with something that has a good chance to work for you. The other good news is that this is still young, barely out of infancy. If your solution doesn't exist yet, it probably will soon.

      My general advice, based on my own experiences, and what I've distilled from the stories of hundreds of others is this: Try an electronic cigarette. If it works and you don't need to smoke any more - great. If you still smoke, try a gradual reduction. If that works - great. If you can't get to zero gradually, try snus when you feel weakest. If that works - great. As far as I can tell, the majority of people are done by the time we get here, and we are on the edge of the current knowledge. At this point, people branch out. Some live their lives with ecigs + snus. Some live with ecigs + a few cigarettes a day. Some are pushing the envelope with exotic vaping fluids. And, sadly, some give up and just go back to smoking.

      Personally, I'm down from ~2 packs a day to 2-4 cigarettes on weekdays, 4-6/day on weekends and sometimes more when I'm driving a lot or working in the garage. And I'm OK with that for now, since I know that I can sustain it for years at a time. I've used snus to reduce down to zero before, but that state is fragile for me - very easy to end back up at 2 packs a day from there.

    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      MAOI inhibitors? These would be anti-anti-depressants.
      Still, I didn't know that tobacco contained MAOIs, These chemicals are known to potentate many substances. Nicotine of course but many other recreative drugs. A common example is DMT. It is inactive orally but when combined with a MAOI, it becomes a powerful hallucinogen mixture known as Ayahuasca.
      This can explain why some people become smokers after consuming "hard" drugs.

  • Selection Bias? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pr0t0 ( 216378 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:32AM (#54889973)

    It seems to me that people who are using e-cigarettes are already unhappy with some aspect of smoking already. Be it cost, health, convenience, or something else, something drove them away from traditional cigarettes to e-cigs. If they were committed enough to make that change and stick with e-cigs, they may have been more likely to have had success quitting smoking in a world that e-cigs did not exist.

    So instead of a headline like "E-Cigarettes Linked to Helping People Quit Smoking", perhaps a more accurate headline would be "Committed Cigarette Quitters More Likely to Try E-Cigarettes As a Stepping Stone"

  • >> 65 percent of e-cigarette users had tried to quit smoking... About 8 percent of e-cig users succeeded in quitting for at least three months

    Wow that's a pretty big fail rate. Is E-Cig juice really so addictive? If so shouldn;t it be banned? I mean what about people that are now hooked on vaping that never were cig smokers?

    • Why would it be banned if cigs aren't? But yes, it is the same nicotine so just as addictive. You can adjust the amount, however, and wean yourself off of it with the e-cigs in ways you can't do easily with standard.
  • by trawg ( 308495 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @08:54AM (#54890281) Homepage

    ... if it means I never have to watch a smoker flick their butts into the street ever again.

    • A-ha! But you know, smokers and non-smokers alike dread vapor more than they dread cig butts. I am an ecig user and casual smoker, and being both I have come to notice some people will not like either. As long as the ecig/cig user has the respect he needs for others, he can have any habits he wants without messing with others' freedoms.

  • by junk ( 33527 ) on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:01AM (#54890683)

    I smoked for about 15 years. I attempted to quit a fee times and would even make it a few months but I enjoyed the act. About 5 years ago, I committed to switching to a vaporizer. Now I barely use it. I started with a low dose of nicotine and quickly switched to 0mg. I don't even take my vaporizer on trips or to bars any more. I occasionally puff on it while working on a particularly difficult task or when stressed but it lives in my office at home.

    My daughter will be born tomorrow and she'll never know her dad as a smoker. (Or her mom but that's not my story.) Vaporizer FTW!

  • If you read between the lines it talks about users of limited numbers which include people who had smoked 100 cigarettes in their lifetime. Which isn't a lot (my parents were chain smokers so 100 in a lifetime is pretty low). Also includes people who included at least 1 e-cigarette as a smoker. Fully addicted smokers generally have smoked significantly more. if you only smoke a few it's easier to quit. I haven't have time to fully analyze the data, but this feels like a pitch to lower "sin taxes" as well as
  • Smoking cigarettes looks cool. Vaping looks dorky. No one in their right mind would start with vaping, but cigarette smokers wishing to quit don't mind looking dorky to get rid of the cancer sticks.

    Signed: nicotine-gum chewing, patch-wearing ex-smoker.

    • They look identical to most people who do neither one.

      Cigarette smoke is putrid and the stench lingers for almost 24 hours on a smoker. Vaping isn't as disgusting for passer-by

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