Wrong Chemical Dumped Into Olympic Pools Made Them Green (arstechnica.com) 180
Z00L00K writes: [Ars Technica reports:] "After a week of trying to part with green tides in two outdoor swimming pools, Olympic officials over the weekend wrung out a fresh mea culpa and yet another explanation -- neither of which were comforting. According to officials, a local pool-maintenance worker mistakenly added 160 liters of hydrogen peroxide to the waters on August 5, which partially neutralized the chlorine used for disinfection. With chlorine disarmed, the officials said that 'organic compounds' -- i.e. algae and other microbes -- were able to grow and turn the water a murky green in the subsequent days. The revelation appears to contradict officials' previous assurances that despite the emerald hue, which first appeared Tuesday, the waters were safe." I would personally have avoided using the green pools, but that's just me. "Hydrogen peroxide is sometimes used in pools -- often to de-chlorinate them," reports Ars. "Basically, the chemical, a common household disinfectant, is a weak acid that reacts with chlorine and chlorine-containing compounds to release oxygen and form other chlorine-containing compounds. Those may not be good at disinfecting pools, but they still may be picked up by monitoring systems. Hydrogen peroxide can also be used to disinfect pools but must be maintained in the waters -- not a one-time dumping -- and can't be used in combination with chlorine." Apparently, the green water irritates eyes and smells like farts.
variety (Score:5, Funny)
I do feel the color options for Olympic pools could be greatly expanded. Green and a slight blue are not enough, We should have red pools and purple pools as well. Deep blues and pinks wouldn't go amiss either. But not yellow pools, that might be distracting.
Red colors (Score:2)
We should have red pools and purple pools as well { ...} and pinks
You joke, but there *are* actually red algae that could give warm colours to pool watter.
It's just about waiting that the correct olympic blunders happens....
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They just need to have five pools colored blue, green, red, yellow, and black. Arranged in the proper order of course.
Re:variety (Score:5, Funny)
Wouldn't it be cheaper just to move the diving board to the shallow end?
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Lake Hillier is red; now all we need to do is find some way to transport weird microbes from Australia to Brazil:
"Your grant request is denied. In fact, we established this fund specifically to find ways to prevent the transport of weird microbes from country to country. We've reported this exchange to Interpol."
Because a pool cleaner (Score:5, Insightful)
Just happened to have 100+ gallons of hydrogen peroxide sitting around.
More likely, they tried to be clever and use it in an attempt to sanitize the pool after a test for high bacterial load.
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Obviously he just hasn't posted the same comment in enough threads. I'm sure he'll get some bites if he keeps casting.
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Also found the NBC shills with mod points!
Re: Because a pool cleaner (Score:1)
That post is not entirely wrong. Viral loads in mid-latitude waters correlate with bacterial load in many cases. Testing for bacterial load is cheaper, which is why that's frequently done. However, the bacterial load tends to be lower in tropical and in salty waters. There isn't a lot of bacteria in the water around Rio. However, it isn't necessarily an indicator of a corresponding low viral load under the conditions in Rio. Bacterial infections really are pretty unlikely, but viral infections are a more re
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That post is not entirely wrong. Viral loads in mid-latitude waters correlate with bacterial load in many cases. Testing for bacterial load is cheaper, which is why that's frequently done. However, the bacterial load tends to be lower in tropical and in salty waters. There isn't a lot of bacteria in the water around Rio. However, it isn't necessarily an indicator of a corresponding low viral load under the conditions in Rio. Bacterial infections really are pretty unlikely, but viral infections are a more realistic concern.
Not sure if this is related but viruses do live a lot longer on cold surfaces than warm. Thats why you get a 'flu season'. The chemical reactions which would break down the viral casing is retarded in cold conditions.
Re: Because a pool cleaner (Score:1)
I don't know for sure, but I'll cite my source for making that statement:
http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/17190109/study-rio-de-janeiro-waterways-filthy-teeming-dangerous-viruses-bacteria [espn.com]
The crux of the issue lies in the different types of testing used to determine the health and safety of recreational waters.
Bacterial tests measure levels of coliforms -- different types of bacteria that tend not to cause illnesses themselves but are indicators of potentially harmful sewage-borne pathogens such as other bacteria, viruses and protozoa that can cause cholera, dysentery, hepatitis A and typhoid, among other diseases. Bacterial tests are the worldwide standard because they're cheap and easy.
But there's a growing consensus that bacterial tests are not ideal for all climates; bacteria break down quickly in tropical weather and salty marine waters. In contrast, viruses have been shown to survive for weeks, months or even years -- meaning that in tropical Rio, low bacterial markers can be completely out of step with high virus levels.
That disparity was borne out in the AP's testing. For instance, in June 2016, the levels of fecal coliforms in water samples from Copacabana and Ipanema beaches were extremely low, with just 31 and 85 fecal coliforms per 100 milliliters, respectively. But still, both had alarming readings for rotavirus, the main cause of gastroenteritis, with 7.22 million rotaviruses per liter detected in the waters of Copacabana; 32.7 million rotaviruses per liter were found in the waters of Ipanema Beach.
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FTFY - "the viral casing is break down challenged in cold conditions."
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"... break down the viral casing is retarded in cold conditions."
FTFY - "the viral casing is break down challenged in cold conditions."
phew, at least I didn't describe the virii as 'window lickers'
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No, it would not. Hydrogen Peroxide is not used with Chlorine. They could use H2O2, but there isn't any report they do, so I doubt they actually did.
Brazil... (Score:1)
They can build decent aircraft but can't figure out how to properly maintain a pool... and for the Olympics no less... geez...
Re: Brazil... (Score:3, Informative)
It's not nearly as simple as that. In terms of outdoor water supplies, I'm not sure it's particularly dangerous. Bacteria break down quickly in tropical water, though viruses are a bigger problem. But there are plenty of nasty water supplies in other places. For example, there are brain eating amoebas that live in deeper water in the United States. While water treatment means human activities don't pollute the water like in Brazil, plenty of other nasty things can live there, including things that don't die
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They can build decent aircraft but can't figure out how to properly maintain a pool... and for the Olympics no less... geez...
Brazil has nice big beaches, full of topless chicks, covering up their butts with shoestring bikinis.
Why would anyone want to go to a pool at all . . . ?
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Why avoid the beach (Score:2)
Brazil has nice big beaches, full of topless chicks, covering up their butts with shoestring bikinis. Why would anyone want to go to a pool at all . . . ?
Because last time I checked they weren't handing out Olympic diving medals on the beach. I'm pretty sure the "topless chicks" are not much of a draw to the female divers or the gay male divers so there's that too...
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How about a new competition: "Beach Strip Volleyball" . . . ?
Each side starts with ten players, and when the ball doesn't get over the net, the last person to touch the ball must take off a piece of clothing. Naked folks get tossed off the court, when they make an error, so the folks on the court dwindle down.
Now that would be a sport that I would watch!
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Um, no. Like the aviation industry in any country, including the US and Europe, building commercial aircraft always involves government. Embraer takes it share of government subsidies and likely has to deal with the resulting meddling that comes with that.
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How does this contradict officials? (Score:3)
The revelation appears to contradict officials' previous assurances that despite the emerald hue, which first appeared Tuesday, the waters were safe.
How does this work? You don't want tons of algae growing in your pool, but there's nothing particularly dangerous about it. It reduces the ability of chlorine to sanitize the water, which still doesn't make the pools "unsafe", and since they reportedly dumped in a bunch of extra chlorine anyway (that's what was irritating the athletes' eyes)... Again, how does this contradict the officials' previous statements?
I'm not a pool expert, maybe there's something I don't know here, but you can't just throw in a sentence like that and offer nothing to back it up. I even checked the article and everything (going above and beyond here) - nada.
Re: How does this contradict officials? (Score:5, Informative)
Since the "officials" had no knowledge of how the pool was treated, they cannot offer assurances that it's "safe." They just don't know.
Dumping in a lot of chlorine is not sufficient to sanitize a pool. The PH also needs to be in the proper range (7.2 - 7.8). The water also needs to be pumped through the filter for 8 - 12 hours a day (24 if cleaning up a green pool). The surfaces of the pool need to be brushed to move dead algae from the pool surface into the water (after which the filter will catch it).
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From the summary:
Apparently, the green water irritates eyes and smells like farts.
Both are indications the water is not suitable to swim in. It should not smell bad (bad smells are generally caused by something that's bad for us, we've evolved to find such compounds repulsive), and certainly not be irritating to the eyes. So, no, it was not safe.
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If they can't get the big stuff like algae under control, what other smaller, more harmful microorganisms are hanging around due to the lack of proper sanitation?
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They are growing because of lack of adequate levels of chlorine, i.e. adequate sanitation. All kinds of other bad things are growing in there along with it.
Dumping some chlorine in doesn't solve the problem, as that chlorine gets used up extremely quickly trying to kill the vast amounts of organic life in the pool that's making it look green. It can take several days of continuous pumping, filtering, and s
And in other news... (Score:2)
...Pool supply company Eurinott has announced the release of a new chemical that reacts quickly with chlorine to produce a remarkable and embarrassing colour change when people relieve themselves in your pool.
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...Pool supply company Eurinott has announced the release of a new chemical that reacts quickly with chlorine to produce a remarkable and embarrassing colour change when people relieve themselves in your pool.
All joking aside... I've heard that people receiving themselves in a swimming pool is what makes the chlorine smell so strong, due to a reaction between uric acid and chlorine.
Re:And in other news... (Score:5, Interesting)
Partly.
The "chlorine" smell in pools is from Chloramines - a compound made of chorine and amines (ammonia). You get more of it from urine, but it'll build up anyway from other sources. The Chloramines are also what stings and irritates the eyes, nose, and lungs.
How do you get rid of it? Raise the free chlorine level in the pool to 10 ppm or so (normal range is 1 - 3 ppm). Presto, changeo, the pool stops smelling like chlorine.
Cryptosporidium is a difficult to remove parasite that can exist in pool water. How do you treat pool water that's been contaminated with crypto? Raise the chlorine level to 10 ppm for 24 hours (20 ppm if you use stabilized chlorine).
Me? I just keep my pool between 10-20 ppm chlorine all the time. Crystal clear water, no algae, no eye irritation, no chlorine smell, no nasties in the water, no side effects at all. My kids swim in it eyes wide open for hours at a time, friends come over and say "I'm glad you don't use too much chlorine; I can't even smell it".
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Not that I'm ever likely to have a swimming pool at home (more likely to live where the snorkelling and SCUBA diving would tempt me out to sea), but does "indoor pool" include one open to the air but with a sufficiency of sunroof (VIS translucent plastic, whatever) to keep UV levels on the water surface low? I'm assuming that it's the UV that does for your free chlorine by photodissociation and the free Cl* radicals being mopped up by any organic molecules around.
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My kids swim in it eyes wide open for hours at a time
How do they manage to go that long without blinking?
Question.. (Score:2)
I understand that smells like fart is not usually a good thing, but is is just a sulfur emanation without any risk of bacterial infection? I'm nor a good chemist nor biologist, so this is where I stop.
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Don't know about the unsafe part, but the decision to dump the pool was partly made to allow the judges and spectators to see the synchronized swimmers in action.
What kind of pool boy did they have? (Score:1)
In a venue as big as the Olympics. I am wondering how Rio support people couldn't manage to have a knowledgeable staff to maintain the pools? Nothing to me seems more important for achievement then proper equipment. Rio seems to have suffered in many areas from ineffective staffing and maintenance. It's pretty scary when you have Police riding around with automatic rifles and swat gear. I think the Olympic committee needs a better way of choosing a host for the Olympics. Maybe based on existing facilities r
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Because in Latin America, it is very common to hire somebody that seems to be totally qualified for something, and then it turns out they really did not know their stuff that well. I also think the Olympic Committee should have a way to make a country lose the right to host, if things are not ready like 2 months before or something. So that when a host is selected, a backup host with a country that has most of the stuff ready can be selected. That would be a way more effective way to pressure a host to get
Hosting the games (Score:2)
Because in Latin America, it is very common to hire somebody that seems to be totally qualified for something, and then it turns out they really did not know their stuff that well.
You would think for something like the Olympics they might be able to dig up someone who knows how to treat a swimming poll correctly. You would thing FINA [fina.org] might have had the topic come up once or twice.
I also think the Olympic Committee should have a way to make a country lose the right to host, if things are not ready like 2 months before or something. So that when a host is selected, a backup host with a country that has most of the stuff ready can be selected.
Why would any country agree to be a backup host? They're supposed to spend millions of dollars getting ready for an event that will probably never happen? It's not like the IOC would pay for it. And realistically there really is maybe 2-3 countries who could host something the scale of the Olympics on sh
Good chemists needed (Score:5, Informative)
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I would have thought there would be more exciting work, like in pharmaceuticals, food industry (the next next Coca-Cola), or even defense (materials science and such).
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Those MBA types keep thinking any jackass can be hired to do the job. Well, this is what happens when you hire a jackass to do chemistry. You get green pools to put out for the whole freaking world to see. And you end up looking cheap and stupid. Well, us chemists are laughing our asses off while we stand in the unemployment line.
While I agree with you about the plight of chemists in recent years (I have a friend in the field who was laid off recently), I also think that pool management doesn't really require complex chemistry. There are just a handful of common chemicals used in pools, and they all have very specific ways they should be used (and ways they should NOT be used, as in this instance). Idiot-proof testing strips, etc. are available to make sure you get concentrations right, etc.
Millions of people without degrees in
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I'm an engineer with an MBA. Nothing in my studies ever suggested to cut corners for short term profits. It was focused on long term growth strategies and employee development. To remain globally competitive you have to build from within. The companies that are off shoring functions will most likely find themselves in more trouble a few years down the road. Yes, t
Scapegoating (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm an engineer with an MBA.
As am I. I went to business school concurrently with my engineering masters to learn how to better manage the projects I work on. Frankly there are a lot of bitter engineers here on Slashdot that are looking for a scapegoat for what they perceive (sometimes rightly) as injustices in the workplace. Blaming "MBAs" is their modern version of blaming Jews or moneylenders as an easily demonized group that in reality has little or nothing to do with the actual problems. It's just tribal scapegoating. There are just as many incompetent engineers as there are incompetent business majors. I run into both almost daily.
I treat anyone who blames "MBAs" with a sort of corollary to Godwin's law [wikipedia.org]. As a discussion progresses the probability of some idiot scapegoating "MBAs" for a problem approaches 1. If they blame MBAs for a problem they no longer have a reasoned argument to make based on actual facts and so they lose the argument and the discussion is over.
Nothing in my studies ever suggested to cut corners for short term profits. It was focused on long term growth strategies and employee development. To remain globally competitive you have to build from within.
This is 100% true. I remember several case studies being used to highlight the dangers of seeking short term profits through financial engineering. The professors took substantial pains to show how short term profit seeking will often backfire long term and damage a company.
The companies that are off shoring functions will most likely find themselves in more trouble a few years down the road.
I've actually done some work in global sourcing and I can confirm this anecdotally. Offshoring tends to result in all sorts of management headaches and quality problems. Send work to China and you'd better have someone actually in China to keep an eye on things. I had a client some years ago who blew up their supply chain and sent work all over the place and only then realized that it caused all sorts of quality, logistics and lead time problems. Not to mention that shipping parts halfway around the world often eats away much of the savings.
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MBA is a degree, not a class of people (Score:2)
I have been on both sides as well as having a front row seat to many companies struggling after a "rockstar" MBA CEO pumped up short term profits at the expense of long term viability.
I can show you even more examples of individuals who never went to business school doing EXACTLY the same thing.
While there are many good MBAs out there, many who were originally engineers, there are also many bad MBAs out there, primarily those who are only MBAs.
MBA is a degree. There is no such thing as a person who is "only MBA". Every one of them has an undergraduate degree in something and most people who earn that degree have several years of experience before they get it. Often business but more often something else. My class had people who had undergrad degrees in film, sociology, engineering, various sciences, IT, medicine, and lots more. The
I assumed Michael Phelps (Score:1)
spilled his bong in the pool again...
Awesome! (Score:2)
So now all the swimmers and divers are platinum blonde?
Chemistry is not an exact science (Score:1)
Leprechaun at Rio (Score:2)
I wish they still made those Warwick Davis Leprechaun movies. They could totally have an olympics one, where he dissolves some gold thief in the pool. OMFG, gold thief! The Leprechaun could be in the olympics, and he's pissed that other contestants are winning "his" gold medals. It's perfect; the movie writes itself.
But the last two (no, the last three, but especially the "Hood" ones) totally sucked, so I understand why they don't make 'em anymore. My friends and I were so pissed that the "Hood" ones sucke
Could have been worse (Score:2)
They could have turned red [biblegateway.com].
Brazil rushed and missed the deadline (Score:2)
You don't dump chemicals into modern pools (Score:2)
Disclosure: My father-in-law maintains the pools at a local University.
This isn't like maintaining your above-ground backyard pool whereby you dump chemicals in by the bucket. These modern pools are computer controlled and have constant monitoring by the systems. As the system detects a change in PH or other imbalance, it automatically adjusts what chemicals are needed to be added. For 99% of maintenance it's about topping off the chemicals in the containers that the system draws from. These pools aren'
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You don't even need to point to the spot on the doll where the mean /. posters touched you. It's clearly the butt by the way you're unable to sit down.
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We saw Brazilian domination in the shooting events, including over the vaunted Team USA. Though people expected an early Brazilian lead in mugging pairs, Ryan Lochte's humiliating defeat in mugging fours was something none of us anticipated.
Re:Timing is everything (Score:5, Informative)
Not on the news in every part of the world. And it took a while from submission to presentation where the editor obfuscated the content as well, original submission here: https://slashdot.org/submissio... [slashdot.org]
The fact that someone screwed up is one thing, but it's good to also get some information on what the screwup was and the consequences of it - that it wasn't entirely safe from a health point of view. At least it didn't create mustard gas.
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If we're going back to the old school complaints about story timeliness, maybe we can also go back to old school summaries and keep up with the scientific explanations..you know, smells like sulfur or whatever.
"Smells like farts" ...making America great again I guess.
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Well, if we're going old school....
First Piss!
(more appropriate in this context than post) ...Naked and petrified...
Re: Timing is everything (Score:1)
If they ended all the summaries with "apparently, it smells like farts" they would probably get more readers.
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"Smells like farts" ...making America great again I guess.
When the submitter wrote "irritates eyes and smells like farts", they were probably just looking for something the average Slashdotter might be able to empathize with.
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Wrong. The fact that the pool turned green was everywhere, the official explanation as to why wasn't.
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The facts of this story have been "everywhere" for about 5 days, now, and yet it's just made it to Slashdot?
This means Slashdot is improving. Slashdot - always with the latest news.
Re:Timing is everything (Score:5, Informative)
The fact the pool turned green, yes. However, the actual reason for it (hydrogen peroxide being dumped in it) was only revealed today everywhere. In between then and now, it was pure speculation as to why the pools turned green, though most people suspected algae. Most people also thought it was a shortage of chlorine and muriatic acid causing the pH to rise, not that someone dumped a pile of hydrogen peroxide.
Of course, it isn't rocket surgery how to maintain the chemical balance of a swimming pool, and most pools generally err on the side of being over chlorinated than under to keep the nasties at bay.
Re:Timing is everything (Score:4, Interesting)
News24 in South Africa had the official peroxide explanation on the 14th already. http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Olympics2016/rio-diving-pool-drained-of-green-water-20160814 [sport24.co.za]
If the bottom end of Africa had it then, then the world had it.
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Of course, it isn't rocket surgery how to maintain the chemical balance of a swimming pool, and most pools generally err on the side of being over chlorinated than under to keep the nasties at bay.
If done correctly, it's actually biotechnology. You can get enzymes for pools or hot tubs that only require that you add a few drops now and then. Using chlorine or peroxide is insensible.
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However, the actual reason for it (hydrogen peroxide being dumped in it) was only revealed today everywhere.
Actually news of the hydrogen peroxide dump made the rounds on the weekend.
There's no need to defend it, it's well known enough that Slashdot is slow as far as news aggregates go. It's been the punch line of jokes as a result.
The more important question is if a story about someone stuffing up chlorine at a sporting event belongs on here at all.
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Maybe it wasn't an official statement but the cause was known.
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However, the actual reason for it (hydrogen peroxide being dumped in it) was only revealed today everywhere.
It was in our news on the weekend: http://www.abc.net.au/news/201... [abc.net.au]
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Any self respecting nerd has already looked up how H2O2, Cl2, H2O react days ago.
I believe you mean years ago, but maybe some nerds are more self-respecting than others.
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I found the explanation amusing. Now I'm looking forward to the explanation of how two dangerous chemicals, sodium and chlorine, combine to form a compound essential to life.
They need to rebrand this page in yellow and black and call it "Slashdot for Dummies".
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While I don't care what the Athletes themselves do I pretty much have to agree the Olympics are a huge money pit for their hosts. In the Sydney games for example the games not only failed to stimulate economic growth they effectively reduced consumption. At the end of the day the games ended up costing every Australian household around $400...
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Wasn't L.A. the only one in recent(!) memory to turn a profit?
And that was probably because everything was already there... The Coliseum, Pauly Pavillion, the Sports Arena (RIP), The Forum, the Rose Bowl...
I think the only thing that really had to be built was the aquatic center, and I think USC covered most of that.
Re: LOL! Serves them right! (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no problem with new venues being built, provided there's a plan to use them afterwards. That means you're not only relying on the Olympics to cover the cost. It can be opening the venue to the public or hosting more events there. It's probably best to focus on cities with many existing venues, though.
The problem is that many of the cities meeting that standard are in the United States. There's a definite IOC bias against the United States, so this isn't an appealing solution. Apparently the United St
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I have no problem with new venues being built, provided there's a plan to use them afterwards. That means you're not only relying on the Olympics to cover the cost. It can be opening the venue to the public or hosting more events there.
Spot on. It's irrelevant if the venue doesn't break even during the 4 weeks that the Olympics and Paralympics is on. The benefits to the economy as a whole are much more relevant.
London has hosted the games during three Olympiads. The latest one was in 2012. The Olympic Park was built on pretty much a waste land in East London (the poor bit). Westfield built a shopping mall next to the site. That was so popular, they had to restrct access to olympic ticket holders while the games were on to prevent overcrow
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Seriously, I have no idea how or even if the IOC guys are bribed regularly. What I do know is that when assloads of public money is being spent on one-off projects, usually there is money changing hands under the table all along the chain.
Re: LOL! Serves them right! (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at Utah (where the games made a profit), all our venues are in use year round. and the village became student housing at the University of Utah as planned. During the winter athletes train and compete at the venues but they are also open to the public to enjoy and try out which serves to recruit new athletes to some of the more obscure events (Lake Placid is the home to the only other bob sled and luge track in the country). And during the summer we find uses for the venues as well. The Ski Jump landing slopes became mega water slides during the summer.
The problem is when host cities throw money at getting the games with no plans beyond the closing ceremonies of the Paralympic games. We not only made a profit during the games but had plans for maintaining and using the venues afterwards.
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Re: Whatever Color (Score:4, Informative)
Um, no. This is basically putting your fingers in your ears and yelling la-la-la-la-la to avoid hearing the actual science.
Pools are treated with hypochlorite, which is one way to kill bacteria. It's one measure, in addition to filtering systems. Hydrogen peroxide can also kill bacteria, but it isn't used with hypochlorite. The result is the production of water, oxygen, and sodium chloride. Instead of hypochlorite, you'd get chlorine ions in the water. Chlorine ions won't kill bacteria and algae.
Though algae can form in indoor pools, it's more common outdoors. Testing for chlorine in the water didn't reveal anything anomalous, probably because of testing for free chlorine instead of hypochlorite. The conditions allowed the rapid growth of algae, which turned the water green. If the testing didn't reveal anything anomalous, it's possible that the contractor responsible for maintaining the pool wouldn't have noticed. The algae made it blatantly obvious there was a problem. The response was to shock the pool with calcium hypochlorite, which would make it easy to remove the algae. This also increased the hypochlorite in the pool, making it safe again. The fart smell was hydrogen sulfide, a result of the algae. The irritation was from the large amount of hypochlorite used to shock the pool.
The algae caused officials to act, which probably mitigated any impact from microbes in the pool. I'm not convinced the water in the diving well was ever particularly unsafe.
One in every eight public pools inspected in 2008 in the United States was shut down from unsafe and unsanitary conditions. I'd bet that swimming in many public pools is far more like swimming in a toilet bowl than anything that ever happened in the Olympic pool. The real issue is the complete ineptitude of the IOC and their inability to get their story straight. That said, you're probably far more likely to get sick from swimming in a public pools in the United States than swimming in the diving well in Rio. I'd much rather swim in the diving well than a hotel pool, that's for sure.
Unfortunately, there are too many knee-jerk reactions like yours that are based on an ignorance of science.
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Um, no. This is basically putting your fingers in your ears and yelling la-la-la-la-la to avoid hearing the actual science.
Unfortunately, there are too many knee-jerk reactions like yours that are based on an ignorance of science.
Well, according to the Brazilian official Mario Andrada, "..chemistry is not an exact science". Direct quote.
Bottom line, agreed upon by many experts [ap.org]: they screwed up what should've been a fairly straightforward fix - algaecide and chlorine, not hydrogen peroxide.
How many other Olympic pools have had this issue in the past 25 years?
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Or things like specialized machinery is so overpriced, hard to find parts, and expensive in Latin America that it is cheaper to pay somebody to do the job. The other part of the problem is that you will have a very hard time finding those seasoned professionals, even if you are willing to pay whatever they ask. Those "seasoned professionals" more often than not turn out to be not so professional after all. More likely you will have to hire somebody somewhat responsible and just train them.
The whole friends
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How is this appropriate for slashdot instead of a tabloid at the supermarket?
Same thing. Except slashdot has more advertisements for SpaceX
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You need to go read Scientific American. If you don't like a news source for whatever reason, just take it off your list and don't get angry. Now if you own said organization, then you can do something about it and get angry. Otherwise it makes you look like a crazy person.
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OK, I'll bite.
> Did you know that you can make your own hydroponic garden using pop bottles, hydroton clay pellets and an 8 dollar aquarium air pump allowing low income families to grow things like chives in their basic current windows even in winter allowing them to supplement their diet with healthy organic food?
Nope. Link to details?
> Did you know that if you purchase a 20 foot long board from rona that you can create a geodesic dome frame out of that by cutting it into at least 2 peices per board
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No, not weak at all - unless it's diluted by the water of an Olympic sized swimming pool.
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Ok, I'll plow into this.
Pool chemistry is, well, chemistry. And despite the offhand IOC statement that "chemistry is not an exact science", chemistry is science. And it's an excellent topic for /.
Maintaining my little 10,000 gallon play pool has been an interesting adventure;
- In Arizona, sunlight and temperature conspire to make pool maintenance a challenge; sunlight by itself both encourages everything you don't want in your pool (algae and bacteria for two) and decomposes chlorine, your most common disinfectant and algaecide.
- Cyanuric Acid (CYA), used as a chlorine stabilizer, also binds chlorine so that it is ineffective as a disinfectant etc. And it does not, itself, decompose easily or quickly. CYA is used in residential pools to simplify management (intermittent filtering and circulation mean chlorine levels would fluctuate without stablizer) and to reduce cost (burnt off chlorine requires adding more). Commercial pools don't typically need this, and indoor pools even less.
- Chlorine tablets (most commonly Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione) and much granulated chlorine (commonly Calcium Hypochlorite, so-called 'shock') contain CYA, and each bit you use adds CYA to your pool, eventually increasing the concentration to the point that it renders chlorine ineffective.
- Now you get to increase the amount of chlorine you use, also increasing the CYA, and the effect compounds itself.
- The solution is to drain the pool, reducing the concentrations, and add your chlorine sources to restore the level, starting the cycle again. Yes, you do.
- I now use an erosion dispenser that doesn't float, and it works insanely well. CYA levels of 110ppm force my free chlorine levels to test 1ppm, but the pool is clear and free of algae and detectable contaminants.
- Commercial and Olympic pools would never use erosion dispensers. I expect them to use gas systems. And using CYA is wrong for these pools because they should be constantly dispensed, constantly monitored, and chlorine expense is
So my challenges are different than those at the Games, but similar in some details.
I tried liquid chlorine (Sodium Hypochlorate, Clorox without the perfume and higher concentrate) for a while, but it's not as effective and requires constantly measuring and pouring, whereas tablets dissolve (erode, hence those floaters called erosion dispensers) without intervention or attention beyond filling it when they are gone. I gave that up without buying or trying to build an automated dispenser, just not worth it yet.
The problem at the Olympics has been well discussed, but from my view as a residential pool owner:
0. They let the chemistry get out of hand. I expect such a pool, at such an event, to be constantly monitored. Inexcusable.
1. Having let it get out of hand, a proper shock by adjusting the pH and alkalinity, using, for instance, a disodiumsalt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate (this is a proprietary product that works), then Calcium Hypochlorate or other chlorine should have cleared the pool overnight. It does mine, even in 90 overnight temps, the only difference being quantities. A filter aid would clear the milky residue that we saw on TV. This process can be used to successfully clear a pool in 12 hours.
2. Using Hydrogen Peroxide wasn't just a mistake, it was malpractice, and I would fire the nimrod that decided that. It is incompatible with chlorine, period. Huge mistake.
3. the filters should be running constantly, not because of demand but because of the critical nature of maintenance. These are used throughout most of the day, are critical to the Games, and no excuses. Similarly the disinfectant systems. It's not about the cost, it's about the money.
4. Each pool should have had its own filtration and disinfectant systems. Of course.
I give the maintenance teams a grade of F. Just incompetent in these pools, and no such failure is acceptable.
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My post was entirely my own. I didn't copy or paste anything except for name of the ammoniated salts.
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It's one of the sites I refer to. Lots of others, but it would be my choice for the only one.
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It's a normal chemical to have around in this case (huge public pools). It neutralizes chlorine (as in this case). Too much chlorine is bad for people, so neutralizing excess is important. And it's hard to know how much chlorine you'll need, because sweat and such cause it to decay. So in case of a situation where they'll need to reduce the chlorine rapidly, they'd need hydrogen peroxide.
And there's not going to be a signed work order. Because the measurements are supposed to indicate what chemicals to