Prescription Meds Get Trapped In Disturbing Pee-To-Food-To-Pee Loop (arstechnica.com) 134
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: A study published Tuesday in Environmental Science and Technology is the first to validate the long-held suspicion that pharmaceuticals may get trapped in infinite pee-to-food-to-pee loops, exposing consumers to drug doses with unknown health effects. In a randomized, single-blind pilot study, researchers found that anti-convulsive epilepsy drug carbamazepine, which is released in urine, can accumulate in crops irrigated with recycled water -- treated sewage -- and end up in the urine of produce-eaters not on the drugs. While the amounts of the drug in produce-eater's pee were four orders of magnitude lower than what is seen in the pee of patients purposefully taking the drugs, researchers speculate that the trace amounts could still have health effects in some people, such as those with a genetic sensitivity to the drugs, pregnant women, children, and those who eat a lot of produce, such as vegetarians. And with the growing practice of reclaiming wastewater for crop irrigation -- particularly in places that face water shortages such as California, Israel, and Spain --- the produce contamination could become more common and more potent, the authors argue.
So distill wastewater then? (Score:2)
NT
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You want to distill it anyhow, just for the sake of extracting fertilizer.
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Re: So distill APPS! (Score:1)
Approximately 4000, unless you nigated some factors. Then that number would change.
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Distillation is prohibitively expensive and impractical at the necessary quantities, given current technology.
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I know it is Slashdot, and RTFA is too much to ask - but how about the summary? This is not about drinking water.
But even if it were, the distribution system would need to be completely changed to separate drinking water from other uses. It'd probably be more practical to filter it at the home than to run a second set of pipes everywhere and update all household and commercial plumbing.
I was framed! (Score:2)
I swear officer Oby, your piss test is flawed. I don't do drugs.
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P2P (Score:3)
I thought P2P meant something else.
Vegetarians at risk. (Score:1)
> those who eat a lot of produce, such as vegetarians.
Good thing I'm not a vegetarian then.
Re:Vegetarians at risk. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Vegetarians at risk. (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's the big question, isn't it? I hope somebody's looking into it, because without knowing how much it accumulates in the animal's bodies we can't judge how much of a concern it is. And, even if it isn't, the animal's waste products are probably being used as fertilizer, sending it right back into whatever crops it's used on. I'm not an alarmist, but we clearly need to know more about this.
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And that's the big question, isn't it?
Given that is accumulates in humans, and discharges into water, which bio accumulate it, one would presume it's prone to bio accumulation.
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Re:Vegetarians at risk. (Score:5, Insightful)
and discharges into water
Which is a strong indication it does not bioaccumulate in humans. Another is that they use this chemical as a drug. A drug which bioaccumulates would quickly become a poison (eg, using mercury to treat syphilis) and would for one shot attempts at fixing illnesses not a long term medication for treating epileptic conditions.
Now the human body is relatively good at dealing with toxins, so it may be that cows and whatnot might bioaccumulate this while humans do not. But I doubt that's happening.
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The bacteria aren't the ONLY thing. They need a specialized stomach in which they can do their work (combined with the ability to regurgitate the stuff so you can chew it again into smaller bits).
I'm OK sticking to celery.
Re:Vegetarians at risk. (Score:5, Insightful)
If the drug in question is one which bioaccumulates
Then the original patient wouldn't be whizzing so much of it out.
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I'd be more worried about the antibiotic resistant bacteria in the meat you eat. Farmers often give animals low doses of antibiotics to fatten them up, but there is evidence that this causes the bacteria living in them to become resistant and cause human health problems when consumed.
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Where do you buy? Do they ship?
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Doesn't matter.
Not enough to supply you without dropping quality. At least, not in the next few years.
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Where do you buy?
From a family friend who raises cattle and has been using the processor for years. I take my deer to that processor as well as unlike so many other ones you actually get your deer back. Also while I could butcher a deer one would find out the true meaning of hatched job if I did and it seems like such a waste when for a nominal cost one can get the best cuts done right. The processor is Grand Champion Meats [grandchampionmeats.com] in Foley, MN. Also with this setup I pay the farmer for the beef directly and pay the processor for t
Re:Vegetarians at risk. (Score:4, Informative)
So, since these drugs do NOT build up in the human body to any significant extent, they will, also, not build up in the bodies of animals.Basically, plants will likely contain ALL of the drugs which they took up from the water for their entire life cycle (from germination to harvest) while animals will only have the drugs which were contained in their last meal or three.
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Re: Vegetarians at risk. (Score:1)
But what if you ate a vegetarian?
Clearly the solution is to move to the top of the food chain and prey entirely on those who feed on sentient beings.
It's the only way to be sure.
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those who eat a lot of produce, such as vegetarians.
Good thing I'm not a vegetarian then.
Except that meat-eaters tend to eat animals that are, so they get it pre-concentrated, as it were.
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I don't think Big Macs contain any actual meat, I thought I heard that McDonalds uses Soy burgers.
Important to Note (Score:1)
Re:Important to Note (Score:5, Funny)
After passing through so many kidneys it must be pure.
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Just think about all of the ass gas you inhale every day.
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Just think about all of the ass gas you inhale every day.
Gee, thanks....
--
Because clearly your plan for running the government is the right plan, and everybody else is wrong.
Of course my plan is the right one, anyone who thinks differently doesn't understand basic economics, capitalism, or socialism ;)
Drugs in the money, drugs in the water... (Score:2)
Drugs everywhere but in my stash box *sigh*
Peak Pharma (Score:2)
Can we get to peak pharma yet?
I'm willing to let a bunch of people suffer and die for it, including myself whenever whatever befalls me.
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Remember that the next time you're in a restaurant and they say "Try the fish."
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ambisexual fishies, not all that uncommon, even before the drugs.
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Transsexual fishies.
Which toilet am I supposed to flush my dead transsexual goldfish down? Life is getting too complicated!
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Ask it which one it identifies as.
Obviously, this won't work after it's dead.
Chemophobes (Score:2)
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Transsexual fish are just as normal and valid as non-transsexual fish. You act like transexualism is a disease.
That's funny - I don't FEEL diseased. :-)
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I was being facetious, plus the fact that the depression that's hung over me has once again abated, so I don't FEEL diseased. But I still have PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder so sure, I am definitely among the walking wounded of the mentally ill.
Of course, on the whole transsexual thing, I can't ever see myself de-transitioning. THAT would be mental. :-) Especially since it's impossible to restore everything even with the best of doctors. (no, I don't want a transplant. You could say I don't have the ba
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Its Homeopathy all the way down!
Only 10,000 times lower? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Sometimes, but many times the drug is excreted unchanged (during the early penicillin era, drug scarcity drove urine collection from treated patients to recycle the still-active penicillin molecules). Many times, the metabolites are also biologically active, either as part of the intended physiological effect, or active in other related or unrelated ways.
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Re:Only 10,000 times lower? (Score:5, Funny)
10,000 times lower? That's only a 2C homeopathic succussion. No wonder it doesn't really do anything to people.
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I'm surprised the concentrations are high enough to only be 4 orders of magnitude off from a person actively taking the medication. I would have expected it to dilute a lot more than that over the course of irrigating a field of crops, picked, processed, cooked, and finally ingested.
In fact if this study is accurate, then homeopathy must work.
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I'm surprised the concentrations are high enough to only be 4 orders of magnitude off from a person actively taking the medication. I would have expected it to dilute a lot more than that over the course of irrigating a field of crops, picked, processed, cooked, and finally ingested.
The numbers are verging on homeopathy.
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Due to the risk of human pathogens in blackwater, only treated graywater is allowed to be used for irrigation. TFA says their study was conducted in Israel. Maybe they use treated blackwater for irrigation there since it's basically a desert?
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As the AC mentions, in houses, there is a single sewage outflow pipe. The only place I have ever seen a seperate grey and black water setup is in RVs/camper trailers, but even then it is only to make it easier to plumb the sinks, the grey water is emptied through the same output as the blackwater, just last as it is used to flush the other tanks and the emptying pipes.
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Water Filters? (Score:3)
Re:Water Filters? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Water Filters? (Score:2)
Re:Water Filters? (Score:5, Funny)
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No, you're supposed to pee into one if you take medications.
Although she insisted it, the last time I tried that she didn't actually like it.
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No, 'cause it's not coming in from the faucet, it's in the produce.
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Lolno.
Ignoring the fact that the article isn't about tap water; the stuff that IS in tap water isn't caught by customer-grade products like Brita water filters.
The Las Vegas area, due to the extreme amount of water recycling done, has had this problem for years (decades?) now. People simply flush drugs (prescription, over the counter, illicit) down the drain, the water gets recycled, the drugs aren't filtered out and it all goes back into the system to be reused as clean water.
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That does explain much of what I have seen in the Las Vegas area...
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All the drink tap water, not bottled water people are looking pretty stupid right now.
Considering that bottled water is just tap water, you are looking pretty stupid right now. Read the label on your bottled water, it will tell you where it was bottled from the tap water.
10,000 time reduction each time (Score:2, Informative)
No they don't get trapped in a loop.
If I eat one of these prescription-laced carrots or whatever, I've got 1/10,000 (4 order of magnitude) less than the person who made that pee carrot. I will then contribute 1/10,000 of that, and someone will eat my pee and contribute 1/10,000 of THAT. By the third person, there is 1/1,000,000,000,000 and we're talking about homeopathic levels.
That's hardly 'trapped in a loop.'
Re: 10,000 time reduction each time (Score:3)
That's hardly 'trapped in a loop.
Maybe not but it sounds kinky.
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The assumption is that the next carrot will also be a pee carrot, because nothing has changed in terms of the original person taking the drugs. Therefore, 1/10,000 + 1/1,000,000 + 1/1,000,000,000,000 and so on. That's a loop.
Critical Words (Score:1)
The critical words are "single blind test" and Speculate
Basically - researchers went looking for something and strangely found it
I wonder what will happen when they look for poisons (arsenic, cyanide etc) or dead insects.
Just a bull shit story went to get media coverage
even then the summary doesn't make sense. one person on a drug. One person has a drug at concentrate x in their urine.
This is mixed with all the other peoples waste water from showers, washing etc - then added to a crop, harvested, eaten and
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It might explain this
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu... [nih.gov]
Abstract
CONTEXT:
Age-specific estimates of mean testosterone (T) concentrations appear to vary by year of observation and by birth cohort, and estimates of longitudinal declines in T typically outstrip cross-sectional decreases. These observations motivate a hypothesis of a population-level decrease in T over calendar time, independent of chronological aging.
RESULTS:
We observe a substantial age-independent decline in T that does not appear to be attributa
Biological affinity (Score:2)
That compound seems to have low biological affinity: if it could be absorbed and expelled intact by both humans and crops, how could it have any biological effect?
Re:Biological affinity (Score:4, Interesting)
But if you want a perfect example of something that doesn't break down but has a serious effect: lead. Your body doesn't convert lead to anything but lead. Wouldn't it be great if our bodies had nuclear reactors that could split lead into something else?
But anyway, what's the problem with this carb-whatever? Isn't it good that everyone will be less likely to have seizures?
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But if you want a perfect example of something that doesn't break down but has a serious effect: lead.
Yes, I have heavy metals in mind when writing my comment. The problem with lead is that it is not expelled from the body.
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The problem with lead is that it is not expelled from the body.
But the fact that it is not expelled is not why it is a poison.
I answered your original question: " if it could be absorbed and expelled intact by both humans and crops, how could it have any biological effect?" Lots of drugs are expelled intact and have biological effect because being metabolized is not how they impact the system. Many are metabolized by the liver while the original drug moderates a system in the brain or other organs. Many are simply filtered out by the kidneys intact.
If you want anoth
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You absorb lead through your skin, so touching it is pretty bad as well. Can't imagine eating it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu... [nih.gov]
Abstract
A 45-y-o male with a history of schizophrenia was admitted to a local VA psychiatric unit. Five days later, endoscopy due to abdominal pain, gastrointestinal bleeding and blood hemoglobin of 5.6 g/dL revealed bullets in the stomach. On subsequent radiograph, > 50 bullets were visualized in the stomach and intestines. Poison Center recommendations included whole bowel i
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RO will clear up your water (Score:1)
If you are concerned with say lead or pharmaceuticals, Reverse Osmosis will get it out. The process uses 5 parts untreated water to give you 1 part purified so it is wasteful. It runs off the pressure supplied by your water line so there's that. I got a setup for about 100 bucks online. It works ok. More expensive units probably do better. My total dissolved solids meter shows tap water at 350ppm here and the RO water at about 20 ppm. get one with a tank if you go cheap, it delivers a tiny trickle of
So It's Even MORE Important to Eat Your Veggies (Score:2)
Roundup (Score:2)
All the effort spent on glyphosate..... Versus actual drugs that work in humans. I wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg?
Going vegan (Score:5, Funny)
Can someone tell me which veggies will contain the most oxycontin? Asking for a friend.
Please God, don't let it be brussels sprouts. They give me wicked gas.
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Oxytocin is a 9 residue peptide. It is destroyed by GI proteins, precluding any possibility of systemic absorption when administered via the oral route.
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It's a conspiracy. They don't make any of the good drugs easy to recycle in order to keep prices high.
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Sand Filtering (Score:1)
Some lake water sources in Europe with sand based soil around them have been detected forming a bacterial films or a net at the bottom which conveniently filters most medical waste products away from the water supply. Perhaps bioengineered bacterial filters could be used to manage the pollution.
Good news / Bad news (Score:2)
The good news: We just made all your prescription drugs affordable.
The bad news...
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...you need to eat your veggies.
Decomposition? (Score:2)
Are the drugs necessary!? NECESSARY!? (Score:1)
Homeopathy (Score:2)
This is homeopathy in action, guys.
Unknown Water Treatment Method (Score:2)
Abstract: the water may have just been treated for bacteria, and that hasn't cut it for urban effluent for at least a decade.
I've read the paper, and I was disappointed to find that the researchers didn't provide any context regarding the type(s) of treatment used on the wastewater before it was dumped into the irrigation systems.
I followed up with one of the footnotes: Wastewater treatment and use in agriculture - FAO irrigation and drainage paper 47 [fao.org], where I find in section 2.3 that for water to be recycl