DNA From Neanderthal Relative May Shake Up Human Family Tree

sciencehabit writes: In a remarkable technical feat, researchers have sequenced DNA from fossils in Spain that are about 300,000 to 400,000 years old and have found an ancestor—or close relative—of Neanderthals. The nuclear DNA, which is the oldest ever sequenced from a member of the human family, may push back the date for the origins of the distinct ancestors of Neanderthals and modern humans.

Prepare to hear the outcome!

[Kohath]

Prepare yourself to one day anticipate a conclusion that might be mildly interesting.

Thanks Slashdot! But why didn't you post a story warning us we might someday see this story (about what we might someday know -- about some stuff that happened a million years ago)?

Re:

[Jane Q. Public]

Prepare yourself to one day anticipate a conclusion that might be mildly interesting.

Thanks Slashdot! But why didn't you post a story warning us we might someday see this story (about what we might someday know -- about some stuff that happened a million years ago)?

I think Slashdot itself is pretty good evidence that we have evolved a lot slower than we like to think.

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[Anonymous Coward]

I think Slashdot itself is pretty good evidence that dudes are evolving into Slashdot gals a lot faster than we like to think.

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[Jane Q. Public]

I think you (despite hiding behind AC we know who you are), are quite excellent evidence of my thesis.

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[Daniel Matthews]

This science is very relevant to Slashdotees given so many are IT people who could benefit from a greater understanding of the origins of Project Managers.

Interesting science

[CaptQuark]

This is a great breakthrough in analyzing ancient human origins. It would be interesting to use this technique to gain more insight on the origins and migration patterns of early north and south american populations. The Bearing Sea land bridge and south american sea voyage origins are still very confusing and incomplete.

--

Very cool research

[meadow]

This is some of the coolest scientific research being conducted in the world. A new record for the oldest sequenced human-lineage DNA.

Re:Very cool research

[ColdWetDog]

If you're interested, Svante Paablo (Nice work with that Unicode, Slashdot) has a book [amazon.com] about the science (and engineering) of paleo DNA sequencing. Pretty amazing hard core work.

Re:

[dwpro]

I second the recommendation. Svante tells a great story as well so it's an interesting read

Re:

[meadow]

Thank you both. I love this stuff. We need more researchers like this coming and telling people in the world about what they are doing. Too many people in society are just totally disconnected and disengaged from the fascination of science. It breaks my heart every time there's some stupid Super Bowl or other event and half the town is getting drunk and freaking out, yet when Curiosity landed on Mars the city was silent.

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[Sique]

Are you talking about the Bering sea [wikipedia.org]? It was named for the danish explorer Vitus Bering [wikipedia.org].

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[gtall]

No, at that time there was a sea of ball bearings between Siberia and N. America. That enabled the fast immigration to N. America, they were able to use skateboards with no wheels and sails like a wind surfer. Scott Walker has proposed a very tall wall to prevent this sort of thing happening again, at least for the lower 48.

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[CaptQuark]

Oops. I blame autocorrect. Or a programmers typical bad spelling. It is a cliché for a reason.

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[LynnwoodRooster]

The Bearing Sea land bridge --

It never was used because of a lack of adequate lubrication.

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[RockDoctor]

It would be interesting to use this technique to gain more insight on the origins and migration patterns of early north and south american populations.

Just send the samples to Svante's Lab, and we'll get the results.

What? Finding appropriate samples in good enough conditions is the hard part? And that's what is holding thing up?

Who'da thunk it?

Will it explain

[Barsteward]

Donald Trumps hair?

Re:Will it explain

[gtall]

Harummph...you could have the Grand Unified Theory of Everything and it still would not explain Donald Trump's hair. My own belief is that it is actually a mutant racoon who whispers stupid nothings into Donald's ear and hence we get his mediagasms.

Dont shake too hard...

[Anonymous Coward]

There may be another Bush in there...

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[Anonymous Coward]

There may be another Bush in there...

Impossible, those neanderthal guys were resourceful and intelligent.

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[belthize]

See this is the problem with always using 'anonymous coward'. We need to mix it up and add anonymous idiot, unidentified twit, mysterious prat and others to more accurately describe the poster.

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[Wycliffe]

See this is the problem with always using 'anonymous coward'. We need to mix it up and add anonymous idiot, unidentified twit, mysterious prat and others to more accurately describe the poster.

My impression was that the post you are replying to has an implied /s tag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

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[slavdude]

These scientists are just after more of the money they are wallowing in.

Oh sure, that's the only reason anyone ever does anything. So where's the money coming from? Do you have any evidence that scientists are rich, other than the data in your rectal database? It also appears that you do not understand the scientific method. All knowledge is provisional. The only exception seems to be faith-based "knowledge", which is by nature untestable.

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[myowntrueself]

So, if there's modern homo sapiens (black people) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (europeans) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with Neanderthals cousins (Denisovins) and out of those three basic groupings the ones that are homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (or cousins) are the smarter ones.....question is...

Are the original strain (africans) just plain not as advanced as the hybrids ?

'Hybrid vigor'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

The downfall of 'master racism'. Racial purity is doom.

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[Barsteward]

did your TV religious evangelical tell you that? unfortunately, they have big problems with comprehension so don't trust them (or send them money)

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[Calydor]

That's not quite how it works.

Species A doesn't suddenly become Species B on a given date; instead specific tribes of Species A may live in a climate where it gets increasingly cold, meaning only those hardiest to cold survive and over a long period of time become Species B. However, other tribes of Species A live where the climate remains warm, has no selection for hardiness against cold (perhaps even a selection against it if the heat easily exhausts them), and remains Species A even while Species B start

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[rmdingler]

Quite right. Individual stresses on early human populations would vary even relatively locally due to the limits of foot travel.

Predation, disease, socialization skills, and even fertility would play a role in diversifying early tribal groups.

It is correctly reported ubiquitously what the invention of mass travel has done for human populations, but from 5000-3000 BC, the domestication of the horse improved man's ability to move all out of previous proportion.

Re:Wait

[ColdWetDog]

And to make it harder, the concept of a species is fluid and artificial. It's not like Homo Neanderthalis just popped up de novo. There were undoubtedly populations of mixed breeds, localized variants and quite possibly early politicians rummaging around the oyster middens. Our fossil record is incredibly incomplete so even small additions to the database are likely to change our views on things dramatically.

Hopefully, as techniques improve we will be able to get more data from older fossils, fossils that are poorly preserved and fossils that are in collections where the curators haven't allowed for destructive sampling. The entire field has benefited enormously from pushing the sequencing technology forward.

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[rmdingler]

Advances in genetics are indeed milking the most data out of each new discovery.

Interesting.^

In the pursuit of convictions, and occasionally an exoneration, law enforcement has really helped advance some of this technology.

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[thinkwaitfast]

I thought species meant only (or mostly) being able to breed with itself?

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[Calydor]

Horses, donkeys and zebras say hi.

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[Calydor]

As well as ligers etc. The equines just came to mind first. You can point to wolves and dogs as well as a direct example of the next 'step' of evolution while the previous one still flourishes.

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[swilly]

My only problem with this is chromosome counts. Humans have 23 pairs (assuming a healthy individual). Most of the great apes have 24 pairs. Some monkeys hare more, but others have less. I don't know about Neanderthal and other Homo species, but I assume they also have 23 pairs. This means that some species jumps are discrete and not gradual. This means that there can be a single date where a new species appeared.

And I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for how this discrete jump happens. Most

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[Aighearach]

Your problem is that thinking of chromosome counts as some absolute barrier. It isn't. You can indeed have successful breeding with different chromosome counts. So it is still gradual.

Also, you mistake "most" for "all." Most means "not all." You could also take the opposite, and say "some. For example, "Some changes to chromosome count result in viable offspring."

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[myowntrueself]

That's not quite how it works.

Species A doesn't suddenly become Species B on a given date; instead specific tribes of Species A may live in a climate where it gets increasingly cold, meaning only those hardiest to cold survive and over a long period of time become Species B. However, other tribes of Species A live where the climate remains warm, has no selection for hardiness against cold (perhaps even a selection against it if the heat easily exhausts them), and remains Species A even while Species B starts thriving.

The funniest thing is that Darwins 'On the origin of species' never addresses the origin of species, never even touches on how species originate.

Speciation events are still a mystery. Probably connected to the 'tree of life' being more of a digraph than a tree. Its a LOT harder to model evolution than Darwin ever thought.

Beware

[nospam007]

Don't shake the human family tree, it's very old, it might topple.

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[myowntrueself]

Don't shake the human family tree, it's very old, it might topple.

And who knows what fruit will fall.

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[thinkwaitfast]

There is no such thing as advanced in evolution as if there is a goal. Evolution is about better fitting to the environment.

Another piece to the puzzle

[Zeekort]

A good find. Too bad they haven't found any dragon skeletons yet. May help explain how different civilizations around the world all have dragon myths and legends without having contact with each other. At least with this find out more about our own history.