Triggering a Mouse's Happy Memories With Lasers Gives It the Will To Struggle On 66
the_newsbeagle writes: With optogenetics, scientists can tag neurons with light-responsive proteins, and then trigger those neurons to "turn on" with the pulse of a light. In the latest application, MIT researchers used light to turn on certain neurons in male mice's hippocampi that were associated with a happy memory (coming into contact with female mice!), and then tested whether that artificially activated memory changed the mice's reactions to a stressful situation (being hung by their tails). Mice who got jolted with the happy memory struggled to get free for longer than the control mice. This tail-suspension test was developed to screen potential antidepressant drugs: If a rodent struggles longer before giving up, it's considered less depressed.
Repulsive (Score:1)
I know this kind of thing needs to be done. Still I find it repulsive from an emotional point of view.
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I know this kind of thing needs to be done. Still I find it repulsive from an emotional point of view.
Does it? Does it really?
I get research needing to test on animals but a test like this is not necessary. You can prove the same results using less harmful methods.
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I know this kind of thing needs to be done. Still I find it repulsive from an emotional point of view.
Does it? Does it really?
I get research needing to test on animals but a test like this is not necessary. You can prove the same results using less harmful methods.
I believe that the method used may be one of the less or even the least harmful - keep in mind that for *this* experiment... some harmful method *must* be used... i think!
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Why? "Frustration" (or even plain ol' fatigue) has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with "depression" (on the short term).
The entire premise of this experiment centers on the idea that giving up in a hopeless situation somehow magically forms a biochemical parallel to a long-term human disease state. Sorry, but no, they don't.
I have no problem with animal testing. This, however, amounts to torturing animals jus
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"Picking them up against their will" does not equate to hanging them by their tails until they go limp from exhaustion.
They'll get over picking them up by the tail. That doesn't mean you dangle the toddler by its arms until it passes out from the effort.
Re:Repulsive (Score:4, Informative)
In fact there are relationships, and how these reflect to human models of both behavior and biologically have been studied
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm... [nih.gov]
The long history of these techniques helps the other show the validity of their work because it is commonly known how reliable and variable the behavior.
The experiment is interesting in itself, it show that stimulation of the cells associated with a memory as it forms will affect their behavior. Additionally the effect supports the hypothesis on how the stimulation would affect the behavior.
Of course there are still ethical and moral consideration.. There may in fact be other better ways to investigate the same phenomina or it may be more ethical not to do the research at. However it is not fanciful sadism. It is a serious attempt to extend the understand of optigenetics, memory, behavior and depression
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Don't you think, the scientists know very well, what they need to test for depression/frustration, etc.? Neuroscience is their job, not yours. They will know their basics.
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inconveniencing a mouse
Now there's a euphemism looking for a meaning.
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Err... what would be less harmful than inconveniencing a mouse for six minutes?
Let me hold you up by an appendage for 6 minutes and see how well you fare.
The point is that you can do the experiment without having mice involved at all. Subject someone to something they find funny or enjoy to make them happy, test how long they will do an unpleasant/menial task after the fact. Repeat the test with making them angry/upset/depressed/whatever and compare... just as valid as the mouse test but without electro-stimulation or hanging them upsidedown.
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...and the obligatory Onion [theonion.com]
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I'm not sure the results are even that valid. How do you tell the difference between a less depressed mouse struggling and a mouse driven into a rage by having it's brain laser baked whilst being dangled by the tail? I guess we'll just have to stimulate a sad memory and see if those mice just hang there without the will to live.
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"Mice with happy memories struggled longer when the light was on, those with neutral memories showed no change, and those with negative memories struggled less." -tfa
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Now that we have that cleared up, perhaps we can test it on soldiers that return from war before they commit suicide due to being asked to commit war crimes? This... This might make Trump happy enough to not build a prison wall around the country to make himself feel more where he belongs while he is 'fixing' everything like Hitler promised for Germany. I bet we could implant and recall memories in a five year old child of pulling wings off a fly and it would sell better than cartoon advertising in holid
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You can prove the same results using less harmful methods.
[citation needed]
Pigs or GTFO
Put up or shut up.
They all mean the same thing. You're making a completely unsubstantiated claim. You need to substantiate it for your claim to have credibility.
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Logical thought and reason are all I need. I'm sure some psychologist has done a similar study I just can't be arsed to find it for a jackass like yourself.
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I know this kind of thing needs to be done. Still I find it repulsive from an emotional point of view.
I agree that this kind of things (i.e., experiments on animals) needs to be done, and, even as a hypocrite who has tortured animals just for "fun" as a kid, i understand how you feel - my hope is that we can use this emotional repulsiveness to better the lives of any animals we use as livestock (which are far more than animals we use for experiments and also tortured by our current livestock raising methods).
Re: Repulsive (Score:2)
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Then you step up to an actual, tiny chance of injury and people are still lining up, starting with "these Scientists". People wi
Mice! (Score:3)
Mice with friggin lasers on... their... heads...
Oh, never mind.
(I wanted sharks....)
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And girls on their minds.
Tail (Score:2)
These mice wanted to get some tail, so they struggled more to free their tail.
This sounds like a bad plot (Score:2)
This tail-suspension test was developed to screen potential antidepressant drugs: If a rodent struggles longer before giving up, it's considered less depressed.
Yes. This will definitely end in zombies.
less depressed or more insane? (Score:5, Interesting)
The tail suspension test (TST) was developed as a rodent screening test for potential (human) antidepressant drugs. It is based on the assumption that an animal will actively try to escape an aversive (stressful) stimulus. If escape is impossible, the animal will eventually stop trying ("give up"). In the TST a mouse is suspended by the tail so that its body dangles in the air, facing downward. The test lasts for six or more minutes and may be repeated multiple times. Mice initially struggle to face upward and climb to a solid surface. When the animal stops struggling and hangs immobile it is considered to have “given up”. Longer periods of immobility are characteristic of a depressive-like state. The validity of this test stems from the finding that treatment with an antidepressant drug will decrease the time the animal spends immobile.
I imagine if the drug made the mouse more insane (i.e., struggling more against the impossible). Conversely, I imagine if the drug made the mouse smart enough to know it was impossible, it would appear depressed.
Reminds me of a scene in the Bruce Lee film Enter The Dragon where he realizes he finds himself in a trap and just sits down and waits to make his move [youtube.com].
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Maybe the mice who stop struggling have simply reached a Zen-like inner peace.
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Maybe struggling to obtain happiness is inconsistent with inner peace.
coming soon to a cubicle near you (Score:2)
Human trials go awry! (Score:2)
Interviewer: Did it work? ...eww...
Researcher: Yes. But we had to discontinue it.
Interviewer: Why?
Researcher: Because what we thought was memory stimulation was actually a memory encoding and replay system.
Interviewer: And that makes a difference...why?
Researcher: Because our test subjects were highly disturbed by "memories" of getting their freak on with female mice...
Interviewer:
Researcher: Indeed...
Weaponize (Score:2)
Weaponize it: soldiers who serve for home and memory.
"(being hung by their tails)" (Score:2)
God damn. We better hope mice never develop the ability to use tools or we're all going to have our throats cut in our sleep.
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IKR? Looks like you can do any fucked up test you want on mice. We wouldn't allow this with cats or monkeys or the precious homo sapiens.
Triggering (Score:2)
Eerily familiar (Score:2)
"If a rodent struggles longer before giving up, it's considered less depressed."
Pretty sure that was my last boss's management style as well.
"Jim, how's your team doing?"
"Great!"
Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? (Score:2)
Braincandy! (Score:1)
No tea for me, thanks.