A Mars One Finalist Speaks Out On the "Dangerously Flawed" Project 169
superboj writes Dr Joseph Roche is one of the finalists to go on Mars One's much-hyped mission to the Red Planet. And yet he says he's never had an in-person interview, had to organize his own physical exam, was only tested on prepared questions, and is being encouraged to give more and more money to the group. That's why he's decided to quit.
It's a scam (Score:5, Insightful)
I, and many others, have been saying this was a scam from the start. It's not "dangerously flawed", because there will be no voyage. They're just preying on dreamers.
Re:It's a scam (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'd gladly give my life for a one-way trip for at least the guarantee of take-off and journey to Mars. Safe landing would be a bonus.
Jackpot would be a safe landing, lawn chair, 6-pack of beer fed through tube in the space suit.
Extra points for some days of stay and "science" work or prep work for the next round.
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You didn't read TFS.
There are no points for any of that. There are only points for raising money for their "non-profit foundation". (Yes, those are scare quotes.)
It's like the hellish offspring of a multilevel marketing scheme and a particularly unscrupulous Kickstarter campaign.
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Did read. Just saying, I would for a serious chance of at least making the trip.
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I'd gladly give my life for a one-way trip for at least the guarantee of take-off and journey to Mars.
Why? It's not like you'd be able to sit back and reminisce about it afterwards.
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Wouldn't you like your parting words to be "thanks for all the fish" rather than "ergh"?
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I won't care at all once i'm dead!
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[......] I say go for it!
Except there's no chance of it going anywhere.
The problem is not that it's a one-way mission (Score:3)
One-way missions have been a common feature of human exploration. In the nineteenth century, thousands of people signed up to settle California as a one way mission, with no idea of what awaited them. "California" in those days did mean what it means now; the settlers had to grow their own milk and honey, many died of miscellaneous causes, and a few ended up as the Donner Party.
If this account is to be believed, the problem with Mars One is lack of control over the mission by those who signed up. If this pr
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I'm sorry, but going to Mars is NOTHING like going to California. You can be pretty well assured that wherever you go on Earth, you won't die of suffocation (except maybe from exposure to fumes from an active volcano). And food grows or is found almost everywhere on the planet (excluding Antarctica -- even most deserts have food available in them).
The only way Mars would work is if machinery can be sent that digs a deep enough pit, so it can have a usable air pressure. From there it can be terraformed.
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Of course going to mars is nothing like going to California. However, if you look at the success of very early north American settlement, it's possibly broadly similar, in that just about everyone died. People still wanted to go.
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But they had the promise of gold to die for back then. If they made it & got rich enough they could afford passage back to the old world, hell they could afford to buy an entire shipping line! Except 99.999999% of them never made it that far, eh.
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as the Donner Party
Or their dinner
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Re:It's a scam (Score:5, Funny)
Duh! What part of "is being encouraged to give more and more money to the group" gives that away?
Wait... Scientologists are going to Mars???
Re:It's a scam (Score:5, Funny)
Wait... Scientologists are going to Mars???
Where can I donate money to that mission?
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Anything for Jehova's Witnesses? I'd like to see them trying to wake people up on Sunday mornings
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I'd clear them for that mission any day
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Indeed. A fool and his money are easily parted -- and while it stinks that people are having to learn this the hard way, again, that's not the worst of it. No, the reaping of this bullshit seed will be when legitimate private industry actually seeks funding for space travel: "Mars One" will forever be referenced as the primary example of how "all" such ventures are "scams." This three-ring-circus will ultimately set back manned space exploration by decades, all in the name of profit.
Frankly, I think the per
like Lucy with a football (Score:1)
Or George W Bush?
Or George H W Bush?
They know you're all a bunch of suckers.
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I, and many others, have been saying this was a scam from the start. It's not "dangerously flawed", because there will be no voyage. They're just preying on dreamers.
It's easy to join the "told you so" bandwagon if you are an AC.
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That's about like crowing "called it" on reading a headline that says "Rossi's E-Cat Proven A Hoax".
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I'm at work
It's easy to join the 'I have a job' bandwagon if you are an AC.
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Because "It's a scam" is so much more transparent and less cowardly than "AC"...? Says me! :)
Re:It's a scam (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Outside some bank accounts ...."
"Outside of some bank accounts" is pretty much the same qualification that could be made for almost any scam that doesn't involve providing defective products. In this case there will clearly never be any "trip to Mars", so your statement is correct, but that does not make it any less of a scam.
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updated Kerbal Space Program Job Application
Please indicate your level of the following qualities:
- Courage 1-10
- Stupidity 1-10
- Disposable Income 1-10
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Except you left out your actual level noob! With that much money either you had a rich daddy, or you've actually killed a few rich daddies in the back alleys of...Waterdeep.
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There's no way anyone who believes Mars One is for real can have a wisdom over 5.
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Yeah, he's a poser - monks must be lawful. And that multi-class combo never existed in any *real* D&D campaign setting! What a nub.
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Like any good scam, this one offers something that some people want so badly that the little fact that the ones offering it cannot actually deliver gets overlooked. This works always the same, be it a Ponzi-scheme, political campaign promises, magic "health" products, etc. There is even research that shows that a certain percentage of the population (something like 10% or so) has a mental disability, where they lose all reason when something they want is offered to them.
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I, and many others, have been saying this was a scam from the start. It's not "dangerously flawed", because there will be no voyage. They're just preying on dreamers.
I make a point to make this comment every time I see a story about this. The number of people from all across the internet that jump on me and freak out is insane. Mars One is a cult.
Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people who follow space stuff already know that Mars One is either a scam or simply delusional... although I suppose it's nice that other people are starting to notice this too.
Very True But It Is a Useful News Item Nonetheless (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people who follow space stuff already know that Mars One is either a scam or simply delusional... although I suppose it's nice that other people are starting to notice this too.
I think it's important that a possible change of heart internally is seen by any of the other members. A lot of time when I read about instances where people get sucked into, say, a Nigerian money scam or worse Scientology, it often becomes a serious issues because they were first tricked into giving a little bit of money and then a little more until it's a sizable sum in total. At that point it's very hard to get out because you're mentally holding yourself prisoner there with the logic that if you quit now, you've lost that investment and you're going to look like an idiot. But, through inaction, you maintain the outward appearance of knowing what you are doing and your investment is still good -- hell, it's even growing because they need another small to medium sized payment. And down down down you go into the trap. It takes a lot to not chase your bets and to say, "I fucked up by giving them the $99 applicant fee but better quit now than waste anymore time and resources. Lesson learned."
... because without that your decision only has one option and it's the wrong option.
And I think the fact that a DOCTOR (no matter what kind or what validity) says, "I paid the money, I saw they were preparing me for the biggest snuff film ever and I got out." Well, now the average person involved in this project can say, "He is right, I came to the same realization, I'm no stupider than this academic." This is why there are support groups out there for gambling problems and cults escapees. The ideafication of your exit is sometimes important than your ability to make your own decision
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Is the Mars Society legit? They appear somewhat connected to Mars One, but seem to actually be doing a little bit more, like camping trips in the Arctic to test their... gear?
Re:Mars Society (Score:5, Insightful)
The head of the Mars Society is Robert Zubrin, who is a well qualified and inventive aerospace engineer. I assume the rest of their work at least involves doing the relevant math.
The Mars One project's problem isn't wanting to go to Mars, it's the missing step two in their plan:
(1) Raise around a million dollars from crowdsourcing, tee shirt sales, and application fees
(2) ???
(3) Finish $6 billion worth of space hardware and launch it.
Elon Musk/SpaceX also want to go to Mars, but they have actual rockets and customers, and his other businesses (Tesla and Solar City) both stand to make a lot of money, and are useful to the original goal. You will need electric rovers, batteries for power storage, and solar panels on Mars. It helps if you have companies that already make that stuff. So I rate the SpaceX Mars program way higher on the probability scale.
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first tricked into giving a little bit of money and then a little more until it's a sizable sum in total. At that point it's very hard to get out because you're mentally holding yourself prisoner there with the logic that if you quit now, you've lost that investment and you're going to look like an idiot.
This is commonly referred to as 'throwing good money after bad.' Very common in large business when people keep chasing that TCO that will never be realized due to being scammed into some crap project that should have never been approved, or should not have been approved as designed.
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This is commonly referred to as 'throwing good money after bad.'
This is more tersely called sunk cost fallacy [logicallyfallacious.com]
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On that note: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/w... [mirror.co.uk]
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All of the current Mars projects are just pie in the sky media stunts.
It is going to cost well over a trillion to set up a colony there - probably a few trillion.
Private investors won't do it because there is no way to recoup their investment. Does anyone actually think they'll recoup that money with space tourism? Any minerals or other resources that may be found there would be just too cost prohibitive to bring back - with current technology.
And spending all that money for a one way trip for scientists t
Re:Old news (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe it's like in the movie Contact there's a secret base out there they've managed to build without anybody noticing and they're just saving it up for the surprise reveal!
But probably not.
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The guy that did that already had his own money to do it with..
No, they (the gov. in this case) built it by charging 2x more than they needed when the original site was built, aka cooking the books.
S.R. Hadden: "First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price? Only, this one can be kept secret. Controlled by Americans, built by the Japanese subcontractors. Who, also, happen to be, recently acquired, wholly-owned subsidiaries..."
S.R. Hadden: [Ellie Arroway:speaks with Hadden] ... of Hadden industries."
S.R. Hadden: "They
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I am also thinking back to that scam artist who got a bunch of media attention for 'finding' flight MH370 a while back by using magic xray film. Got time on CNN and everything, even though even basic journalism should have led them to ignore the guy. I have yet to see media outlets going over how wrong he was, they just sorta dropped it and pr
I thought they had at least their own thruster (Score:3)
I thought they had at least developed their own thruster - the world's first bullshit-powered thruster that can get you to Mars and beyond!
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... (Score:4, Interesting)
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If Survivor had happy endings, it would be an infinitely better show. So would Survivor: Turkish Prison, where every week, a contestant gets voted in front of the firing squad.
As to Mars, anybody who believed for one moment that NASA was going to participate in sending people to another planet to die is a moron.
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when we do have the tech to accomplish such a thing
We don't. We don't even know how to land a multi-ton capsule on Mars in one piece.
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Yes we do, that's trivial. We've done it in one gee field
But we've never done it in Mars atmosphere. And that's certainly not trivial. The atmosphere is too thin for heat shields and reasonably sized parachutes to have much effect on massive payloads. On the other hand, the atmosphere is thick enough to become really annoying when trying to slow down using a rocket while hypersonic air is slamming straight into the nozzle.
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If you can reach orbit from a planet then you can reverse the process and land on a planet.
There's still a big difference between airflow going in the same direction as the rocket exhaust gases, or opposite directions.
Re:Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... (Score:4, Insightful)
"If you can reach orbit from a planet then you can reverse the process and land on a planet. "
Same with peeling an orange, if you can peel an orange you can reverse the process and put it back on.
yep, makes sense no matter how many times i read it.
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Yes we do, that's trivial. We've done it in one gee field
No more trivial than just getting everybody back to earth with the data and samples. There are lots of tech not developed yet for a manned Mars trip. Long term space habitats for one as the trip there will take a long time. Landing is another as there is not enough air to air brake or parachute an too much to use rockets easily. There are articles on the subject by NASA people out there. That's why there are so many weird landing methods for past Mars missions and once you increase the landing craft to som
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Except that nobody that has rockets is going to give the Mars One assholes one of them. Yeah, I know they expect SpaceX to give them a bunch of Falcon Heavys, but why would Elon Musk want to have his name attached to something that is certainly going to kill people? SpaceX already has a NASA contract to put people in orbit, so they will be focusing on that.
The reason they are assholes is because they know they literally have no chance of literally getting off the ground. It is just a way to suck money out o
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Except that nobody that has rockets is going to give the Mars One assholes one of them.
Give, no. But the Russians will cheerfully sell one to anyone with enough money.
The reason they are assholes
I think you misspelled "con artists."
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The reason they are assholes
I think you misspelled "con artists."
Con artists can be assholes too. In fact, most probably are.
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Name one peace-time project in which a 100% death toll was a certainty form the get-go.
These things are extremely rare even in major wars (in fact I cannot think of any such missions).
Remember - guaranteed death as the only option is very different from "high risk of death".
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Name one peace-time project in which a 100% death toll was a certainty form the get-go.
Birth. 100% mortality rate.
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Then how about Survivor: Baffin Island. Let's see those bikinis now, bitch.
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Meant to be ironic - but reveals idiocy just as the OP said. Good to remain anonymous, coward.
With this "mission" the chances of death are certain - there is no other possible outcome. This makes it more dangerous than being a suicide bomber, since with that mission there is a chance the bomb will fail to explode (and this has happened many times).
When has the U.S. government in peace time sent any civilian on a genuine, absolutely certain suicide mission? NASA certainly never has. You would be hard put to
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With the timeframe and technical aspects of the project I'm guessing its either a pyramid scam or the best pitch for a survivor sequel ever. Only without the happy outcome of the original series.
If they actually do produce a "Survivor: Mars", and actually do send a couple dozen reality TV contestants to the Red Planet - I'd consider it a win.
Maybe, if we're really lucky, they'll include the Kardashians.
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The first step will be sending the producers, writers, and all their marketing, legal, and accounting staff.
We can call it a win at that point.
He's got a doctorate (Score:4, Funny)
He should be used to having very little money and working his ass off for someone else's hunches.
Just a $$$ scam - no physical danger (Score:4, Insightful)
The only danger will be to someone's bank account. Anyone who couldn't tell this was a scam almost deserves to be separated from their money as a sort of fiscal Darwin award. There is not and never will be an actual mission to anywhere though this scam. Furthermore I'm tired of hearing about it and don't know why slashdot continues to give these scammers free publicity.
I wish an attorney general with appropriate jurisdiction would get involved and put the people behind this in jail.
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Scientology, Amway, and Herbalife are still going strong and earning big $$$ for their founders. Government doesn't seem to care one way or the other. Why shouldn't the guy who dreamed up Mars One get a piece of the action?
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The only danger will be to someone's bank account. Anyone who couldn't tell this was a scam almost deserves to be separated from their money as a sort of fiscal Darwin award. There is not and never will be an actual mission to anywhere though this scam. Furthermore I'm tired of hearing about it and don't know why slashdot continues to give these scammers free publicity.
I wish an attorney general with appropriate jurisdiction would get involved and put the people behind this in jail.
Not necessarily, the world if full of people working on terrible start up ideas, why should Mars One be any different?
The media is evidence of this, the Mars One project isn't exactly hiding much, sure there's a lot of BS around how well they're doing but they're not claiming they have a secret game changing tech or shadow billionaire who's going to change everything. The problems are there for everyone to see, the reason they're getting ignored is that the idea is so infectious that the traditional media i
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It's a big scam (Score:5, Funny)
The whole project is a money-grabbing scam. Nobody's going to Mars. Besides, when the Apollo astronauts first went to the moon aliens were right there, and after a few missions to the moon (by Apollo 17) the aliens finally said enough is enough..No more humans on the moon or anywhere else beyond Earth orbit. So nobody is going to the moon, Mars or anywhere else. Only robots are allowed. And probably any robot that starts drilling into or disturbing the life in the oceans of the Jovian and Saturnian moons will be stopped before it can do any damage.
Crowd*ing (Score:2)
First crowd sourced funding, now crowd sourced logistics...
I mean how could a trip to another planet possibly go wrong with this kind of strategy?
I'm going to need $50 million dollars to build the landing pad on mars... I plan on deploying a bunch of down pillows... that'll work right?
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This sounds like a perfect question for an xkcd 'what if'
It sounds fraudulent (Score:3)
Also, who would have given these guys money? I mean... if there were REALLY a trip to mars happening that they wanted colonists for... I'd be one of those crazy bastards that would sign up for it. Yes. Send me to mars. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
No really.
But, why would I give "money" to something that isn't going to happen?
I thought the whole point of this thing was to make it clear that there were a lot of people willing to travel right now to mars? That's a cool message to send. "Hey you earth loving pansies, WE are willing to go... even if we die... even if we can never come back!"
And I thought that was a cool message because it really surprises a lot of people and gets them to think differently about space exploration. I mean, every manned mission assumes a return trip. What if there isn't one. What if its "you go and you spend the rest of your life where ever you arrived... possibly your short life with no food water or air." The thing is that there are volunteers for that.
But to give these bozos actual money? *raises left eye brow spock fashion*
That's illogical.
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Also, who would have given these guys money?
People give money to groups all the time. Groups claim they want to solve poverty, cure diseases, help the children (or perhaps just little girls and not boys), eliminate racism, promote suffrage (well maybe one if you vote for the correct political party) things that they can never accomplish with the resources available to them (but they want to help the cause). People pony up because they feel connected to the cause, not because the groups can expect to achieve the goal.
These groups raise funds in orde
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Yeah, I like to make donations closer to home and I like to see immediate results from the money donated. if it just goes off into some big fund then I question how much of it actually goes where it is supposed to go.
Space Cadets (Score:5, Insightful)
Reports emerged that the contract with the TV production company Endemol - which Mars One claimed could bring in up to $6 billion in revenue - was no longer in place and that the companies had gone their separate ways.
Interesting that they originally partnered with Endemol, who previously produced this:
'Space Cadets': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
"The series described itself as the most elaborate hoax perpetrated in television history...A group of twelve contestants (who answered an advert looking for "thrill seekers") were selected to become the first British televised space tourists, including going to Russia to train as cosmonauts at the "Space Tourist Agency of Russia" (STAR) military base, with the series culminating in a group of four embarking on a five-day space mission in low Earth orbit...However, the show was in fact an elaborate practical joke...Unknown to the "space cadets", they were not in Russia at all...and the "space trip" was entirely fake, complete with a wooden "shuttle" and actor "pilots".
In the last episode, I recall the presenter joking that the next series would be called 'Mission to Mars'...
It's NOT a scam, it's a semi-brilliant plan (Score:3, Interesting)
Mars One is most certainly NOT a scam.
Technology has all but eliminated the need for a growing population and over-population is human's biggest problem. We need to eliminate some people, but we still need smart, useful people. If we used criteria like geography, race, religion and ethnic origin to choose who gets eliminated, we're as likely to eliminate too many of the smart people we still need. So what criteria do we use to identify people we want to get rid if?
Mars is a cold, lifeless rock much to far away from earth to make even it's mineral content remotely economical. We are a species who can't even terraform the Gobi, Mohave or Sahara where there's an atmosphere and temperatures are (relative to Mars) reasonable. Anyone who thinks going to mars is anything other than ridiculous meets just the criteria we're looking for. And they'll voluntarily board a ship blasting off to nowhere, somewhat lessening the moral dilemma of the situation. And they're even offering to pay for the whole thing!
Brilliant plan. Or semi-brilliant, because they simply haven't selected nearly enough finalists to address the overpopulation problem. But it's a start.
Didn't Douglas Adam's predict this decades ago?
Re:It's NOT a scam, it's a semi-brilliant plan (Score:4, Informative)
Cyril Kornbluth wrote the idea in a story called "The Marching Morons" back in 1950. Doug Adams did something similar many years later.
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In the department of removing access to birth control for population reasons. . . .
Iran is ahead of the curve I think [theguardian.com]
Concept itself is flawed (Score:3)
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The same logic applies in the military to the people who volunteer for suicide missions and hopeless last stands, and yet those have happened on a number of occasions, often to good effect, and always for a lesser cause than bringing humanity to a second planet.
I notice that you did not cite any such cases. Do you actually know of any, of you just assuming based on... what?
A "hopeless last stand" in which you find yourself facing near-certain death due to battlefield reverses (ambush, surprise attack, collapse of a defense perimeter, etc.) is not the same as a "suicide mission" in which someone who is not in imminent danger of being killed otherwise, is sent out to die on purpose. In fact, people survive "hopeless last stands" on occasion.
Genuine suicide missions
Here is how I think it went: (Score:1)
Here is how I think it went:
Some small company with one or two guys says "Hey, let's do that Mars One thing, where we pretend to send people to Mars, create a lot of media buzz and get rich doing so. There's no real chance we send people away as some Goverment will stop us before we get anywhere serious. And hey, in CASE we are successful... we get even richer and everyone who dies signed up for it on free will. Awesome. Now, we're money greedy bastards with morals. Let's look for a media producer with no m
No real surprise there (Score:2)
I had suspicions initially that it was an elaborate con, but this pretty much confirms it. The objective here was clearly to grab as much money as possible before the bottom fell out.
So basically, Scientology (Score:2)
yep.. (Score:2)
Yep a non-profit organization, the organisation itself doesn't make any profits, but the people in the organization get a hefty salary for doing nothing... It happens with a lot of non-profit organisations, a lot of money is going into the pockets of the ones who are in charge, and instead of profit, all extra's are going into the pockets in the form of a bonus or expense account, so no profit is made by the organisation..
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It's already part of EMACS. Scientists just have not yet discovered the sequence of keystrokes to enter that mode.
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Hey, if you've got yourself a batch of suckers, why stop milking them before they leave? I think that would be a violation of the scammers code or something. Especially if you've got a choice situation where you haven't actually broken any laws while scamming them - all win, no risk.
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Old Scam. - This offering is for "Sophisticated Investors" only. You should read this phrase as "Run Away Quickly", but a lot of people like to think they are smarter and more capable than they really are, and are sucked in. "Hell Yes I'm sufistikated, lets see what you got."
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Old Scam. - This offering is for "Sophisticated Investors" only. You should read this phrase as "Run Away Quickly", but a lot of people like to think they are smarter and more capable than they really are, and are sucked in. "Hell Yes I'm sufistikated, lets see what you got."
You may be on to something there - it worked the same way for bitcoins - "Only smart people who can understand the math can see why BTC are a good idea. Can you see?"...