Strange Stars Pulse To the Golden Mean 157
An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from an article at Quanta Magazine:
What struck John Learned about the blinking of KIC 5520878, a bluish-white star 16,000 light-years away, was how artificial it seemed. Learned, a neutrino physicist at the University of Hawaii, Mnoa, has a pet theory that super-advanced alien civilizations might send messages by tickling stars with neutrino beams, eliciting Morse code-like pulses. "It's the sort of thing tenured senior professors can get away with," he said. The pulsations of KIC 5520878, recorded recently by NASA's Kepler telescope, suggested that the star might be so employed.
A "variable" star, KIC 5520878 brightens and dims in a six-hour cycle, seesawing between cool-and-clear and hot-and-opaque. Overlaying this rhythm is a second, subtler variation of unknown origin; this frequency interplays with the first to make some of the star's pulses brighter than others. In the fluctuations, Learned had identified interesting and, he thought, possibly intelligent sequences, such as prime numbers (which have been floated as a conceivable basis of extraterrestrial communication). He then found hints that the star's pulses were chaotic. But when Learned mentioned his investigations to a colleague, William Ditto, last summer, Ditto was struck by the ratio of the two frequencies driving the star's pulsations. "I said, 'Wait a minute, that's the golden mean.'"
A "variable" star, KIC 5520878 brightens and dims in a six-hour cycle, seesawing between cool-and-clear and hot-and-opaque. Overlaying this rhythm is a second, subtler variation of unknown origin; this frequency interplays with the first to make some of the star's pulses brighter than others. In the fluctuations, Learned had identified interesting and, he thought, possibly intelligent sequences, such as prime numbers (which have been floated as a conceivable basis of extraterrestrial communication). He then found hints that the star's pulses were chaotic. But when Learned mentioned his investigations to a colleague, William Ditto, last summer, Ditto was struck by the ratio of the two frequencies driving the star's pulsations. "I said, 'Wait a minute, that's the golden mean.'"
For it's age and size (Score:2)
it's a very average star
Wild guess, 5 stars (Score:4, Interesting)
Wikipedia says the golden ratio is related to 5 sided figures (pentagrams).
Clearly, we're seeing 5 stars in mutual orbit.
Yeah, wild guess.
Re:Wild guess, 5 stars (Score:4, Insightful)
Clearly, we're seeing 5 stars in mutual orbit.
With a six hour orbit?
Yeah, wild guess.
Very wild. The aliens are more plausible.
Re: (Score:3)
Wikipedia says the golden ratio is related to 5 sided figures (pentagrams).
Clearly, we're seeing 5 stars in mutual orbit.
Quite clearly, we've found the gateway to Hell* if we're finding pentagrams in space. What in the world would make you think it had anything to do with stars?
* Not to be confused with the Door to Hell [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Or something's gone terribly wrong with the Puppeteers' Fleet of Worlds...
Neutrino beams used for stellar morse code does sound a bit desperate.
Not really (Score:3)
Neutrino beams used on otherwise useless stars to serve as beacons doesn't, though.
Re: (Score:2)
If you really want to know if it's aliens figure out what stars brightening in that pattern would be useful for outside of signalling. Saying "I'm here" might be reasonable if neutrino beams and stars get cheap but doing something useful is more likely to get funded earlier.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes and no. The most obvious pattern, just general brightening, might be the beacon, and a more subtle pattern, perhaps just in a few element lines changing or some other kind of modulation than amplitude could carry further informatio
Re: (Score:2)
That was my thought. Celestial Positioning System with a clock broadcasting.
Re: (Score:2)
That's why we have a god emperor and sacrifice thousands of psykers to him every day.
Re:Wild guess, 5 stars (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wild guess, 5 stars (Score:5, Informative)
As the next paragraph from the article would have explained, had it not been arbitrarily excluded from the copy-paste summary.
Ok That's Pretty Freaky (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ok That's Pretty Freaky (Score:4, Informative)
The difference between Pi and the golden ratio is that the golden ratio isn't transcendental, it's just irrational. In fact, you can state Phi perfectly as (1 + sqrt(5)) / 2.
He should pay his PAs better [latimes.com].
Re: (Score:1)
I thought Noah was a hoot.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
That's quite possible. I thought I saw Gladiator fighting the rock people, and I don't remember that part being in the bible story.
Yeah, I was probably hallucinating again.
Re: (Score:2)
Message deciphered: (Score:1)
"kiss my massive black hole, humans"
Re: (Score:2)
"Come back when you're a supermassive black hole, beta"
Still marveling at (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Still marveling at (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoa, dude. Tenured professor? I dunno, maybe you should aim for something more achievable -- like, an astronaut, or a world-famous basketball star.
I'm only exaggerating a little. :b
Re: (Score:1)
good luck with that.. the vast majority get stalled at Associate Professor which means your employment ends when your contract expires. You're facing the same squeeze to avoid any long-term commitment or liability for your employer as the people seeking "salaried with pension" work.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Still marveling at (Score:4, Insightful)
Being a tenured prof facilitates blue sky thinking, but you are still expected to do all that other stuff such as sit on endless committees, do proper research, teach people, write papers and bring in research money. It is not all fairy lights and golden means!
I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's surprising about it showing up in a different location of the same world?
It shows up in biological systems that are fractal, such as the spiral of a pine cone, or the distance between branches on a tree. But there is nothing (that we know of) that is fractal about a star.
Btw, for an excellent introduction to the Golden Ratio, watch Donald Duck in Mathematics Land [youtube.com].
Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
But there is nothing (that we know of) that is fractal about a star.
Nothing that we know of... yet.
Re: I don't get it (Score:1)
How about a Dyson sphere being built along a fractal pattern?
I imagine an relatively feasible way to construct one would be to grow one with self-replicating tech, as opposed to building one.
Hell, this hypothetical civilization may BE self-replicating tech.
Ok, I'm going to lie down for a minute now.
Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually most systems are chaotic, not like this star, or the other stars also exhibiting this behavior. In fact researchers had been seeking such behavior somewhere, and produced it in a lab just to see it happen at all.
One theory is that it's inherent stability is the result of self selection.
I just skimmed the article as nighttime reading so forgive (and correct) misinterpretations please.
Re: (Score:3)
Having said that, chaotic systems are often statistically very stable, mathematically a stable non-linear system is known as a strange attractor [wikipedia.org], a strange attractor is always a fractal. The golden ratio pops up in all sorts of fractals, especially spirals.
It's said that our own sun has at least two internal spiraling magnetic fields that "wind themselves up into knots" for the peak of the 11yr sunspot cycle. Who said it I don't recall, but it
Neither do I... (Score:5, Informative)
So it is not at all surprising that phi might crop up in seemingly strange places.
Re: (Score:2)
Golden ratios emerge wherever you have a relationship of T(n)=T(n-1) + T(n-2). Where the first two terms are 0 and 1, you have fibonacci numbers: but no matter what your starting numbers are, the ratio between T(n) and T(n-1) will approach phi (as demonstrated with 'brady numbers').
So it is not at all surprising that phi might crop up in seemingly strange places.
So if the signal would be chaotic, and the second signal was just an echo of the first signal, for some reason occuring exactly one period after the first, then we would see this? Mmm.... nah. I go for the aliens with neutrino beams :)
Re: (Score:2)
So what you're saying is we found a neutrino reflector?
Re: (Score:2)
So what you're saying is we found a neutrino reflector?
Interesting idea. I guess we'll know when the scientists that are now studying the object have finished with their calculations.
Non-Falsifiability (Score:4, Interesting)
Similar claims have been made about how human anatomy allegedly conforms to mathematical constants. But when we make actual measurements of individuals, nobody fits the constants perfectly. What is the allowed margin of error? One can make just about any number be close to some "elegant" mathematical constant -- pi/2, pi^2, e/phi, whatever.
Similarly, today I just judged a paper about childhood obesity submitted to a scientific journal. Childhood obesity is confounded with low socioeconomic status, so how do we separate the two? Of course, children of lower socioeconomic status have poorer outcomes in terms of health, occupation, and mortality. (Incidentally, the children with the worst outcomes in terms of future health, income, and mortality are the underweight kids who look like walking skeletons. Most scientific papers on obesity exclude that population.)
Re: (Score:1)
For reference, the margin of error seems to be +/- .03. In other words, you'd have to reach a bit to say that it's exactly the golden mean. In other words, click bait.
Re: (Score:1)
Everybody's confused about what the story is about. I'll quote: "It's the sort of thing tenured senior professors can get away with"
Re: (Score:3)
Any machinery only works to a certain precision. The bigger the load (size or whatever) is, the lower is usually the precision. We can shoot electron beams at single atoms and build cranes that lift trucks, but those will never be able to drop those trucks within âengstroms to a target. So not-exactness may be an additional hint for artificial origin.
Or it may be some more random noise with veeery low frequency.
Re: (Score:2)
and this could potentially be considered among one of the largest machines in the galaxy and is more precise than any other we have made.
pulsar clock [wikipedia.org] i wouldn't consider a pulsar to be "small" and this uses the signal from multiple to be more accurate than an atomic clock.
Well it's better than blasting out a radio signal (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, a radio signal that's readily detectable by primitive civilizations like ours, assumedely the only reason to blast out a fantastically strong signal at all in all directions instead of a tightbeam, would take more energy than all of human civilization produces slammed into one radio transmitter just to be "heard" as it were. A huge engineering product just to say "Hello World" or "Hello Galaxy" as it were.
On the other hand, we already look at stars as it is, and all they do is blast out radiation. If you could fluctuate it to a noticeable degree that would save a lot of energy versus actually producing all that energy yourself, and besides all the energy being flung out by the star is going to be lost as it is. Might as well use it for something.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm...when I hear the William Tell Overture decoded from a star's signal in stunning surround sound, then I'll believe in aliens. Until then, it is just the Greek guy with the electric hair peeing in the wind again.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
If you could fluctuate the luminosity of a star to announce your presence, then it would make more sense to make it flash prime numbers. Or encode such a message by varying the frequency, or by stopping and starting the device that produces the effect. Well, maybe they are doing just that, and I suppose that a pulsing star or the machine that makes it pulse doesn't exactly stop on a dime, so it may be worth keeping an eye on that thing for a couple of years, and watch for changes.
If it flipped between primes and golden mean, THEN we'd have something undeniably artificial.
"That's no moon - (Score:2, Funny)
how much more proof do you need? (Score:1)
Personally i prefer 80 proof. But for stargazing, a bottle of wine is sometimes more palatable. I like math and space. It can really give you a unique perspective, because how many people do you know that look up at the stars and see a mathematical pattern? I don't know anyone like that. Which makes this even cooler. Not as cool as linux is, if you know what i mean!!!
Not too bad (Score:2)
This is cool, but just imagine the fever that nutters would work themselves into if the pattern were close to the Fibonacci sequence.
Re: (Score:1)
The golden ratio is connected to the Fibonacci sequence - it is the limit of the ratios between successive terms of it. The Fibonacci sequence is a natural phenomenon, it can be seen in many plants, for instance. So I'm kind of surprised that this is thought of as coming from extraterrestial intelligence at all.
Re: (Score:3)
The golden ratio is connected to the Fibonacci sequence
Thanks, I was about to say the same thing =p
So I'm kind of surprised that this is thought of as coming from extraterrestial intelligence at all.
That's what got me so excited, but then I realized it was just another manifestation of what already occurs in our universe all the time (golden mean, Fibonacci sequence). Doesn't rule out that ETs are using it for communication though - it's obviously caught OUR attention and interest, no? ;)
Re:Not too bad (Fibonacci could be the key) (Score:1)
ETs would be far better off using primes or squares, rather than the Golden Ratio/Fibonacci Sequence, precisely because the latter manifests so often in natural patterns.
Actually, the link between the Golden Ratio and the Fibonacci Sequence is quite possibly a key to understanding this phenomenon, since it is a ratio between two frequencies. The Fibonacci sequence is produced by a sequence of additions. And when frequencies are mixed, they produce both a subtractive and additive result. (A good example o
OnOff star? (Score:1)
Wonder if it's got a planet with loveable spiders [wikipedia.org]? We should mount an expedition.
Re: (Score:1)
Don't mind me, I'm just exploring. (Score:1)
Time to shop, then. You're going to need a lot of chloroform, and quite a few condoms.
Oblig:
Dude1: You ever go camping?
Dude2: Sure.
Dude1: Hey, if you were butt-raped when camping, would you tell anyone?
Dude2: Oh, hell no!
Dude1: Wanna go camping?
I propose a law (Score:3, Insightful)
A species that advertises its existence to the unknown is not an intelligent species.
Re: (Score:2)
How do you know it is advertising itself to the unknown? They have mapped more of the universe we are aware of
Re: (Score:1)
That's not a law, that's just redefining intelligence.
And as an idea, it's not even yours.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I propose a law (Score:4, Interesting)
You presume that their reasons for doing so are benevolent.
After all, species which have the ability to first of all see these stars and secondly understand their meaning are probably going to head in that direction as soon as they can, meaning they're young and not very scientifically advanced compared to a civilisation that can manipulate stars on an almost unimaginable scale. Scout ships get captured, their source traced, and rival civilisations extinguished in their infancy.
It could be a megaengineered honey trap.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"So why did you just announce yours?"
If there's an alien civilization lurking on Slashdot, please tell us what Linux distro you use.
One Conclusion (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or they just didn't head in our direction.
hmmm... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
N e v e r g o n n a g i v e y o u u p ......wait. Dammit, not again!
FTFY.
Thermodynamics of Stars (Score:3)
We are still trying to understand, model and measure the variables in Solar/Star processes. It is not surprising that variable star's energy producing systems have similar cycles to my way of thinking. You can imagine superimposing two sine waves of different frequencies that could yield a golden mean ratio.
Sacred Geometry in action (Score:3)
At first I was completely astonished that yet another (seemingly) natural phenomenon is related to the Golden Mean. It was a major epiphany in my mid-20's how nature follows the rule of irrationality, which still follows a pattern, and not simply rational numbers. It's sacred geometry in action.
The more I read, the more I realised that this is 'just another' verification of what I realized about nature and our universe. It's everywhere.. the design of snail shells, seashells, seed patterns in Sunflowers and so many other plant formations, spiral galaxy formations (Fibonacci spiral!), and now star illumination patterns. It's everywhere. It's a key to helping understand the nature of reality. Thanks for posting this!
Re:Sacred Geometry in action (Score:4, Interesting)
You may like to pick up and learn something of Cellular Automata, if you're astonished by and interested in the relationships between math and nature, it may help provide some concepts that fold the two together in extremely interesting ways.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
If so, explain the Fibonacci sequence occurring in nature..?
Re: (Score:3)
You said, Nature follows the rules of mathematics.. NOT sacred geometry.
I am giving the example in which nature follows sacred geometry (the Fib. sequence is related to sacred geometry, as in the Golden Ratio). No doubt sacred geometry is considered part of "mathematics". It's ok, I'll just assume you haven't had your coffee yet. ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously the term "sacred geometry" is debatable...
"According to Stephen Skinner, the study of sacred geometry has its roots in the study of nature, and the mathematical principles at work therein.[3] Many forms observed in nature can be related to geometry, for example, the chambered nautilus grows at a constant rate and so its shell forms a logarithmic spiral to accommodate that growth without changing shape. Also, honeybees construct hexagonal cells to hold their honey. These and other correspondences a
Re: (Score:2)
pick and choose. you seem to get selection bias up the wazzooo. this particular example, they list the ratio as falling... between 1.58 and 1.64... so yeah, apparently that's "close enough" these days. everything is apparently "close enough"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... [wikipedia.org]
from if you take the total number of jews killed, and the death totals for everybody else not including soviet pows and ethnic poles. you come out to 6404500
which, makes a perfect golden ratio 1.6 with the number of soviets and poles
Mc Kay is at it again (Score:2)
trying to make a new ZPM module
It's sad that the Golden Girls spammer missed this (Score:2)
Coincidence? (Score:1)
“All this begs the question,” Ditto said, “what is fundamentally going on with these stars that they end up with a ratio near the golden mean?”
Yeah. What is fundamentally going on with miles and kilometers that they end up with a ratio near the golden mean?
Re: (Score:2)
not coincidence... the ratio falls between 1.58-1.64
this is what they call, imposing a narrative.
Not much of a coincidence (Score:5, Interesting)
The two numbers Phi and Pi are actually related by trigonometry, so it is hardly surprising that they would show up in a ratio concerning the rotation of stars.
If you divide a circle into 5 sections of 2*Pi/5 each you will get the five points of a pentagon, whose dimensions are all based on phi relationships [i.e. the Golden Mean]. Thus one can state:
2 * cos (Pi / 5) = Phi or
2 * sin (Pi / 5) = sqrt ( 3 - Phi )
or even better:
Pi = 5 arccos (Phi / 2)
that is,
Phi = 1 - 2 * cos (3 * Pi / 5) [wolframalpha.com]
So it is not entirely strange that the simple harmonic motion of a star could be expressed as some ratio of Phi.
It's all numbers, numbers all the way down.
April 1st is nearing.. (Score:1)
I'am not sure about this story. I have my reservations, the names of the two main scientists raise questions.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, "Learned" [hawaii.edu] is absolutely a cute name for a professor.
I'll see you and raise. [washington.edu]
Modulating the star energy production won't do. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Contact! (Score:4, Informative)
Besides that, I just noticed that it's a 6+ years old article [arxiv.org].
Obvious Usefulness (Score:2)
What you need is a lighthouse. Preferably two-three so you can
Re: (Score:2)
Only... we already have kind of natural light houses for galactic-scale navigation already. In multiple types even.
Pulsars (fast spinning neutron stars) are the first that come to mind. Their pulsating frequency seems to be very stable which makes them easily recognizable and distinguishable. There are multiple in our own galaxy (of 14 of them, their characteristics were depicted on the Pioneer Space Probe plaque. One of 'our' early 'Hello, aliens' attempts). They should be perfect for intra-galactic travel
Re: (Score:2)
Then, of course, there are those captains that can't bothered follow the rules or even keep a lookout. http://www.scotsman.com/news/u... [scotsman.com]
Re: (Score:2)
He must be right (Score:3)
Wha-hey! (Score:2)
Pulsars (Score:3)
Were they not also deemed as artificial at one point?
Prime numbers? (Score:2)
Do prime numbers work in something else than base 10 or are we simply assuming all other intelligent beings in the Universe use base 10 too?
Re: (Score:2)
Prime is prime, doesn't matter what base. Base is just how a number is represented.
This. In fact, there are some nice examples how primality shows up in different bases. For instance, Mersenne primes are all ones when written in binary, where the number of ones itself is a prime.
Aliens? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)