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Earth Science

California's Hot, Dry Winters Tied To Climate Change 279

mdsolar sends word that hot dry winters may be the norm in the future for California. "Climate change is one of the most prominent public health issues currently on the CDC's radar. The organization's Climate and Health Program attempts to help state and city health departments to prepare for the health impacts of climate change, which can come in the form of things like temperature extremes, air pollution, allergens, and changes in disease patterns; they can also be felt indirectly through issues like food security. Since 2012, California has been in the midst of a record-setting drought, with extremely warm and dry conditions characterizing the last three years in that state. A new paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences concludes that warming caused by humans is responsible for the conditions that have led to this California drought. This study, published by scientists affiliated with the Department of Environmental Earth System Science and the Woods Institute for Environment at Stanford University, used historical statewide data for observed temperature, precipitation, and drought in California. The investigators used the Palmer Hydrological Drought Index (PHDI) and the Palmer Drought Severity Index (PDSI), collected by the National Climatic Data Center, as measures of the severity of wet/dry anomalies. They also used global climate model simulations from the Coupled Model Intercomparison Project (CMIP) to compare historical predictions for anthropogenic and non-anthropogenic historical climates."
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California's Hot, Dry Winters Tied To Climate Change

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  • Price Controls? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ) <sharper@@@booksunderreview...com> on Monday March 09, 2015 @12:50PM (#49216565) Homepage Journal

    Have they considered asking economists about the effects of price controls on water for agricultural uses?

    Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one... if you hold down the price of water, people (especially larger users) will use more of it, not less of it...

    • Re:Price Controls? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:45PM (#49217223) Journal

      Now wait just a damn minute. Are you trying to tell us that it's stupid and completely irresponsible to grow monsoon crops in an arid desert environment, and then bitch when there isn't enough water to go around?

      • Re:Price Controls? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by danbert8 ( 1024253 ) on Monday March 09, 2015 @02:36PM (#49217855)

        It's obviously man made climate change that is the problem with growing grapes and rice in the desert!

      • by jwdb ( 526327 )

        Problem is, that arid climate happens to be where the good sun and soil is. I just moved from wet Northern Europe to arid Southern California, and it's amazing how much longer the growing season is here. Maybe they could grow somewhere else where there's more water, but colder temperatures and less sun would probably lead to a drop in productivity.

        I'm actually more incensed by the casual wasting of water I see here - sprinklers on during a rain storm, for instance.

        • The soil in California is terrible (desert), but they fix that with fertilizer. The farmers love California because it's got lots of sun and cheap land.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Sympathies for the AGW folks.

    Because I'm in California, and it's so goddamned terrible here that car washes are still operating at maximum efficiency.

    And we're still farming where we have no business farming.

    And we're still demanding people water their lawns.

    And our water is still cheaper than other states I've lived in.

    It's terrible, let me tell you.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      That's because all the wells the farmers are using are still at ~15-20% of historic levels. In a year or two when thats used up too and the shit really hits the fan, it will be time to do something about it. And by do something I mean point fingers.

    • Are you guys still going to drain the Pacific Ocean because some guy pissed on it?

  • The original paper http://www.pnas.org/content/ea... [pnas.org] does not seem to make a big deal about Winter so TFA may be adding that owing to this Winter's weather which has had record warmth this Winter. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/... [noaa.gov]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 09, 2015 @12:51PM (#49216593)
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by HiThere ( 15173 )

      It's an interesting graphic. But there's no clear attribution. Even for the couple of lines where there is explicit attribution, it's not clearly defined what the attribution means. Were it the part of a larger article in which the missing data were provided, and with links so it could be verified, it would be very interesting. (I'd still wonder exactly what it meant and, I admit, I might not follow up. But that graphic is so cryptic that it could mean many different things. And it's not clear that t

      • by BCGlorfindel ( 256775 ) <klassenk AT brandonu DOT ca> on Monday March 09, 2015 @02:30PM (#49217777) Journal

        It's an interesting graphic. But there's no clear attribution. Even for the couple of lines where there is explicit attribution, it's not clearly defined what the attribution means. Were it the part of a larger article in which the missing data were provided, and with links so it could be verified, it would be very interesting. (I'd still wonder exactly what it meant and, I admit, I might not follow up. But that graphic is so cryptic that it could mean many different things. And it's not clear that the predictions are even predicting the same thing (measured feature) as the measurements are measuring.)

        How about a graph [googleusercontent.com] from the IPCC itself then instead, you can verify it in their AR5 report here [www.ipcc.ch]. Not nearly as bad, but very clearly showing the last decade or more trending at the very low end of the models.

    • Which is a graph that has been lampooned as grossly inaccurate for calibrating against a 5 year temperature average instead of a 30 year temperature average which shifts things a good deal.

      To bypass that controversy compare a graph [googleusercontent.com] from the IPCC itself then instead, you can verify it in their AR5 report here [www.ipcc.ch]. Not nearly as bad, but very clearly showing the last decade or more trending at the very low end of the models.

  • My real estate is inland on a mountain.

    Just make it legal for me to shoot the beach heads when they start to sink and I'm a-ok with saying that there is no global warming.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Any two trending time series will be correlated. These links don't mean anything substantial has been detected. Predict something precise then it is worth paying attention.
    http://www.tylervigen.com/

    • The paper 'concludes' that AGW increases the risk of drought, but does not tie the recent droughts specifically to AGW as the submitter suggests. That is just an assumption.
      • And i wonder if it is not a completely incorect assumption. Wasn't there a study last summer stating the heat in the north west was because of changes in ocean currents and not global warming. I have a hard time thinking the drought in california is not unrelated. The weather there as well as for most of the US west is largely dependant on the pacific ocean.

        • by HiThere ( 15173 ) <charleshixsn@earthlinkLION.net minus cat> on Monday March 09, 2015 @02:14PM (#49217561)

          You are making the assumption that the changes in ocean currents are unrelated to global warming. This is likely to be an incorrect assumption, as the ocean has become considerably warmer recently. Another factor is the weakening of the jet stream which is clearly tied to the Arctic warming faster than the equator. (The jet stream is driven by tempertature differences, much more than by their absolute value for any small change.)

          OTOH, you're never going to prove that any one particular weather, or even seasonal, change is tied to climate. There's too much variation. Climate is basically a mean of several years weather, and there's not even an agreement over how many years should go into calculating the mean. (Of course that's arguing about words rather than about physical happenings, but people are good at that.)

          • I'm not making any assumption not made by the study. You can google for it. Or i can later when not pisting from my phone and post a link. Hell, slashdot even ran a story on it so you can just search slashdot.

            Btw, i think it linked volcanic activity and natural current fluctuation but its been so long since i readabout it i could be wrong.

  • Droughts = Cold (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PortHaven ( 242123 ) on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:06PM (#49216775) Homepage

    Some insights....I grew up in San Diego, droughts were fairly common.

    I returned to southern California for school, and was there for the last half of the nineties, you know...those uber-hot years. Guess what, we were getting more rain those hot years. People were talking about the decades old drought finally coming to an end.

    Than it began to get cooler again, and the droughts returned. For your info, droughts, deserts, etc are often tied to global cooling. Cooler global temperatures lock up moisture as ice. Resulting in increased ice caps, but also increased equatorial deserts.

    Higher temperatures result in a much more humid global climate. Greener, greater moisture content. So when I see all the references to droughts. I think global cooling, not global warming.

    While that is climate change. It's Earth, the climate is always changing - I'd be more afraid if it wasn't. The earth has experienced far cooler periods, and periods that were twenty degrees hotter than today. Life continued and thrived.

    • by rwa2 ( 4391 ) * on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:11PM (#49216829) Homepage Journal

      Plus, if it was legitimate AGW, the Earth would have natural ways to shut the whole thing down.

    • by thaylin ( 555395 )

      Actually, that is not even remotely correct. Deserts, and droughts, in cali are caused by cold ocean currents that drive rain elsewhere and the rainshadow effect. It is an odd double wammy with 2 the 3 deserts causing effect.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R... [wikipedia.org]

      It has nothing to do with global cooling, however warming does make it worse because warmer air can hold more mositure and thus takes longer to saturate to the point of rainfall.

      The otehr cause of the deserts being the land is too far inland for the mois

  • Sucks for farmers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:08PM (#49216787)

    Here I am sitting in shorts and a t-shit while the rest of the country is shoveling snow off of their sidewalks.

    It's been great for recreation but about once a week I ride up over the dam that contains the artificial Shasta Lake that is the source of Cali's main waterway, the Sacramento river. It's low. Really low. Worse, the snowpacks that feed it would not even be back to normal without five or six years of what's considered normal precipitation.

    Stil, that's not the real problem. The real problem is almost entirely political.

    We've been through more water scares than any other state in the nation. Back in the 70s and 80s the population centers have done the water rationing dance and per-person use is quite low compared to what it was. We can't squeeze any more water savings there.

    Agriculture uses 75% of the water in california (Yes far more than municipal and industrial COMBINED), and the distribution of such is just plain fucked up. 100 year old water rights agreements let certain farmers suck the water dry in a manner that is neither fair nor efficient. We can grow plenty here with much less water that's currently being used. But we can't because of a fucked-up love triangle between rural farmers, rural politicians, and agreements that were signed more than a century ago - A time when you could drain a lake or divert a river and nobody would blink because water was plentiful and concern for the environment was everyone's last priority.

    It gets weirder still.

    Turns out much of the water in this state also comes from only recently understood vast underground aquifers.. And they're drying up. Turns our recent legal precedent lets management of underground aquifers trump water rights agreements if said aquifers are affected by water consumption.. So there's an end run around these ancient laws that are causing problems.

  • South Florida is at dire risk. We already have rising sea issues that are substantial and actually could effect the nation wide food supply as we are about the only spot in the US that can raise crops in winter. But we have an even more pressing problem. Diseases from tropical islands near Florida are becoming more common. In addition to malaria we now have two more mosquito born illnesses that are causing little outbreaks here and there. Just about any disease that flourishes in South America can now
  • by BCGlorfindel ( 256775 ) <klassenk AT brandonu DOT ca> on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:21PM (#49216959) Journal

    Watch how you word your summary of a scientific finding. In particular when the summary states:
    A new paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences concludes that warming caused by humans is responsible for the conditions that have led to this California drought.
    You shouldn't go to read the linked article and find the conclusions of the study state:
    Our results suggest that anthropogenic warming has increased the probability of the co-occurring temperature and precipitation conditions that have historically led to drought in California.

    The header, California's Hot, Dry Winters Tied To Climate Change fit the study. The start of the summary mdsolar sends word that hot dry winters may be the norm in the future for California fit the study. Resist the urge to overreach with the extra statement trying to sound like scientists have claimed proof that the drought is definitively the end result of AGW and naught else. Why? Because the scientists didn't say it, and they most likely didn't say it because they don't want to say something so stupid. Obviously draught is a part of the natural cycle in California without the benefit of AGW, no scientist is gonna be eager to declare that only AGW is responsible. Instead you will see the conclusion they ACTUALLY USED in the article noting instead that AGW absolutely contributed to, rather than definitively caused, the drought.

    The difference between contributing to and worsening droughts and being the sole or dominant cause MATTERS.

    • Apparently the IPCC's literature content differs from the summary for policymakers. Anything to sell the hype and keep the gravy train of sweet, sweet government money going. Let the personal insults from the easily-duped, emotionally-invested and paid shills begin!
  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Monday March 09, 2015 @02:02PM (#49217411) Homepage Journal

    1. California is always a semi-desert, with the exception of the northern fifth of the state, which is a rainforest. Adapt or die, b*tc*s. Yes, that means sustainable crop practices.

    2. You're not getting any extra power from Oregon or Washington this year, cause our snowpack is around 8 percent of what it normally has been (which will be the norm in 2025 due to global warming, by the way, but is not directly caused by that). So we need our water to sell bottled water to you idiots who fail to realize the fancy water you drink in plastic bottles is just our usual drinking water in Seattle that we let settle a bit so it's "fresh". No cheap electricity for you. Grow a pair and build more solar and wind, cause it's just going to get much much much much worse.

    3. As to crop practices, do what British Columbia learned in the 1970s and 1980s. You've had 50 years to adapt. Mix crops (no monoculture), grow crop cover between tree rows (less soil loss, less water loss) which also fixes nitrogen and can kill bad bugs. Cover your dam water canals (hint: try using solar panels, win win) to reduce water evaporation. It's been done in other places in North America for a long time, cheap water is over.

    4. Most of your water use and water waste is farming. Most of that is because you insist on growing artificially subsidized water intensive crops that aren't suited for your climate. Stop subsidizing those and let the market self correct that very very bad choice. Adapt.

    5. There is no all or nothing artificial choice. Half measures are better than no measures. Small and moderate adaptations now, or even to partial removal of subsidies and misuse have major impacts. Try changing 1/10th of your crops to better methods. I drove thru almost all of Cali this past winter, you really haven't done much, and you could easily adapt without much of a problem, but you have to stop sticking your heads in the sands.

    • 1. California is always a semi-desert, with the exception of the northern fifth of the state, which is a rainforest.

      No it's not, it's a hugely varied state with many biomes. Even in relatively small distances (San Francisco to San Jose, for example) the climate varies drastically. The Central Valley of California, where most of the agriculture happens, is a grassland with ~15 inches of rain a year. In the east are the Sierra Nevada mountains, which is a temperate coniferous forest. Farther east is an alpine grassland, and to the south on that side is a true desert, Death Valley and the Mojave desert. Even the northern Sh

    • Whether we're experiencing AGW (likely but not completely certain) or not (unlikely but theoretically possible) the main problem in California is actually an economic one. They're failing to allow water to be correctly priced. Allow prices for agricultural water use to be set by the market instead of the artificially suppressed rate and the whole shortage issue will take care of itself.
    • As a farmer you have to make the maximum profit you can otherwise you lose your land ( ask me how I know). Any practice that lowers your profit compared to your neighbors increases your chances of bankruptcy. Simply mandating all growers adopt the same practices may cause consumers to switch to less expensive foods.

      To have a sustainable economy everyone has to be forced to participate. Otherwise cheaters will make more profit. To stop climate change no country or individual can be allowed to cheat. Politi

  • It's all the hot air coming out of Sacramento. Ironically, they keep yammering on about climate change so they really only have themselves to blame.

  • You know what else is caused by global warming? Nearly everything.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming2.html [whatreallyhappened.com]

  • I don't get how even on slashdot you get so many fucking unbelievably insane ass-wipes who believe in the scientific method *except* when it applies to global warming. However, every time it's mentioned they come out in the crazy droves to drop their dumb-ness on the rest of us, so, by all means crazy morons - have at it.

It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption.

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