TP-82: The Gun Cosmonauts Carried On Space Missions 116
HughPickens.com writes James Simpson has an interesting story about the TP-82 survival pistol that Russian cosmonauts carried into space with them on missions between 1982 and 2006. But calling it a pistol is slightly misleading—the TP-82 was essentially a sawed-off, double-barreled shotgun with a short-barreled rifle added onto it. Having a gun inside a thin-walled spacecraft filled with oxygen sounds crazy, but the Soviets had their reasons. Much of Russia is desolate wilderness. A single mishap during descent could strand cosmonauts in the middle of nowhere. In March 1965, cosmonaut Alexey Leonov landed a mechanically-faulty Voskhod space capsule in the snowy forests of the western Urals 600 miles from his planned landing site. For protection, Leonov had a nine-millimeter pistol. He feared the bears and wolves that prowled the forest—though he never encountered any. But the fear stayed with him. Later in his career, Leonov made sure the Soviet military provided all its cosmonauts with a survival weapon. For the Soviets, the weapon was a case of "better safe than sorry," and from 1986, it was a permanent fixture in the portable survival kits of every Soyuz mission. "Astronauts of all nationalities—including Americans—have trained with the TP-82," writes Simpson. "And still today, before they ride the Soyuz to space, they must complete a Russian survival training course in the Black Sea and the Siberian forest."
TP-82, not TI-82... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:TP-82, not TI-82... (Score:5, Funny)
I once brought a t TP-82 to a standardized math test. It helped me get a perfect score.
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Think of it as a really loud abacus.
There's a name for this kind of gun (Score:5, Informative)
A gun like this, triple barreled with shotgun and rifle barrels is called a drilling. Most typically they have two shotgun barrels and a rifle barrel, but other combinations are possible, e.g. one shotgun barrel, one larger caliber (e.g. .30-06) rifle barrel, and a small caliber rifle (e.g. .22lr) barrel.
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Granted, you're not stuck in the middle of undeveloped wilderness in Asia with a very real potential for being killed for food after having crawled out of a now-dead space capsule either.
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Yep, basically a subsistence-living firearm for targets of opportunity. A friend has a Belgian side-by-side with a 16ga on one barrel and .30-30 for the other. If I was in a subsistence scenario I'd like one of those or a drilling.
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Why not just a small guage shotgun with shells of shot and some of slugs? Could be a double barrel for those who'd want the abilty to quicky take advantage of either one at a moments notice
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but there are double barrels with two triggers and two hammers, kind of a modern version of the old "coachgun"
What is ... (Score:2)
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Time to reload comrade, or I'm in charge now pheasant.
Re:What is ... (Score:5, Funny)
Pheasant?
I think your sig is bleeding over (so to speak) into your comments.
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Makes sense (Score:1)
I guess nobody wants to go to space and get killed by a bear upon return. It lowers the experience quality!
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Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
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I am a space bear you insensitive clod!
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Although a 32 gauge shotgun and the 5.24 mm (single shot) bullet would make shooting a bear somewhat problematic.
You could successfully shoot yourself after being wounded by the bear, but that's about it. Same thing with the 9 mm. A bit on the weak side for a 600 pound + half armored pissed off animal.
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Best bet with those rounds is shoot in the ground or air and hope to scare it off. Don't piss it off.
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
It's to shoot your fellow cosmonaut in the knee and run away.
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Same round the AK-74 uses, similar to the 5.56x45 NATO stuff the M16 uses.
Unfortunately while its velocity will be OK (2800fps or so) there isn't a lot of mass to help push through and penetrate something like a big ass bear.
Now the 32 gauge shotgun, that is real close to 1/2", a "pure" lead round ball would weigh half an ounce... A 350 grain 416 caliber Barnes solid bullet (meant for the 416 rigby - a classic Dangerous Game round) in a sabot, being pushed to about 2000fps would do the job though... assumin
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If I am up against any big varmint that walks the face of this planet, I'd choose a Heckler & Koch MP7. Whatever is on the wrong side of the barrel of that . . . doesn't need to be concerned aboutf its retirement fund.
However, you need to be trained and experienced in using the weapon. Otherwise, when you are trying to plink a burglar in your house, you will end up hitting instead:
Your wife.
Your kids.
Your dog.
Any members of the Bush family that are considering to run for President of the US.
Hill
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You realize that the delayed rollerblock blowback design of the HK 91/93/94/MP5 is just a copy of that from the G3, which was licensed from Spain? And the only reason the Germans did that is that FN in Belgium refused them a license to build their own FN-FALs for some reason (G1 series as issued to German forces, the German Boarder Guard, etc). No German engineering involved...
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
I've heard that the recommended way to take down a bear with an underpowered handgun is to wait until it attacks and then shove your hand into its mouth and fire. Not something you want to try except as a last resort, but with luck the bullet(s) will puncture the thinner bone in the roof of the mouth. I used to know a lunatic hunter that claimed the maneuver had once saved his life.
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I've heard
Don't listen to those people any more. They are stupid and they will get you hurt.
lunatic hunter
The operative word there is `lunatic'. It's wasn't a bear. It was a mosquito. And he didn't shoot it in the face. He used a blow torch. This is another person you should not listen to.
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Somehow I think if you've got your hand inside a bear's mouth, not getting hurt no longer an option - at that point you're fighting to only be mauled instead of eaten. And no, he absolutely didn't shoot it in the face - that would be stupid. You might put out an eye if you were lucky, but more likely the bullet would just bounce off its skull.
And yes - lunatic was definitely the operative word, but not in the way you're implying - he was known as *the* go-to man for eliminating problem bears and mountain
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A boy scout a few years back did that with a .410 shotgun loaded with birdshot.
The game warden noted that the only damage was to the upper palette of the mouth, right into the brain, that there were substantial powder burns in the mouth, and that the pellets didn't penetrate the skull even at that range.
After deliberating all this, he came to the conclusion that the boy had acted in self defense in shooting the bear and was not to be charged.
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Funny)
Make sure you file off the front sight so it doesn't hurt so bad when the bear shoves it up your ass.
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12.5mm is really slightly smaller than 32 gauge though
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Funny)
or if you manage to land safely after a mechanical failure only to be eaten by wolves.
They also put an autocannon on their space station (Score:1)
Several test stations before Mir were launched with AA guns for "self defense". [wikipedia.org]
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Several test stations before Mir were launched with AA guns for "self defense". [wikipedia.org]
I'm not saying it was aliens....
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Sharks! (Score:2)
Shouldn't US astronauts similarly carry shark repellant? If they go off course or have a capsule break-up, they could end up in an ocean storm or with a leak.
Re:Sharks! (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the Apollo capsule carried shark repellant in the survival kit (as well as a .22 cal pistol). Of course, that was in the days prior to lasers. Now they would have to have sunglasses as well.
Re:Sharks! (Score:5, Insightful)
So the "gun thing" is not really a "Russian thing", as implied; it's simply old-fashioned boy scouting: "Be Prepared".
Oh nos - a gun! (Score:4, Insightful)
>> in the wake of the past year's tragic violence involving professional astronauts...the open access to such lethal hardware needs reappraisal
Good thing there's no other way to die on the way to, in or on the way back from space.
Two words.... (Score:2)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Petrograd with all that stuff.
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This is the funniest thing I've read all day.
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What, no tyolka for putting into beeg load to ease mind?
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"Survival kit contents check. In them you'll find:
- One forty-five caliber automatic
- Two boxes of ammunition
- Four days' concentrated emergency rations
- One drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
- One miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
- One hundred dollars in rubles
- One hundred dollars in gold
- Nine packs of chewing gum
- One issue of prophylactics
- Three lipsticks
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If you want to carry a .223 pistol for bear protection, be sure to file off the front sight. That way it doesn't hurt so much when the bear takes it away from you and shoves it up your ass.
Salyut 3 (Score:5, Interesting)
Salyut 3, a Soviet military space station, was launched in '74 equipped with an anti-aircraft cannon. The gun was aimed by orienting the whole station. Far more interesting than some survival gun.
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Well, we'd already convinced the Soviets that Nixon was a lunatic that was so unstable that he could preemptively launch a nuclear strike against them; I'm not entirely surprised that they armed their space station.
Yeah, that autocannon would have been real effective when we launched a nuclear anti-satellite weapon against them. I can't imagine that the way it was deployed that they could have hit the space shuttle coming in to dock with them with marines on board.
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It was remotely controlled and to prevent docking or close inspection by USA when station was unmanned. No need to aim precisely, just fire at a craft close up for docing manuveurs.
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Thats why I still love /.
you get to learn something new everyday.
No mod points to mark it informative :(
Always mandatory. (Score:1)
To be perfectly honest, there should be a mandatory survival gear for at least one persons on board all craft, plane, boat or spacecraft.
In fact, even long excursions away from home should really have some preparation beforehand to ensure your survival if the worst should happen.
You never know when a rogue earthquake could shit on society, or perhaps a tidal wave, maybe a horrid snowstorm brings society to a crawl for a few days.
Always be aware of the areas you are travelling to for added security and peace
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Hell yes. You never know when your plane might veer off-course, break into pieces, and crash onto a weird island where you encounter polar bears. If you're lucky, however, you might find enough weapons to arm a small 3rd world country.
American version (sorta) (Score:4, Informative)
The American pilot version - cut down bolt action in 22 Hornet. Since it has a barrel less than 16" and an OAL of less than 26" it falls under NFA purview, so there is a tax stamp associated (and several months wait).
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti... [gunbroker.com]
The other "more common" but still rare is the M6 version which is 22 hornet over a 410 shotgun on a weird skeleton style stock and weirder firing mechanism
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti... [gunbroker.com]
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The American pilot version - cut down bolt action in 22 Hornet. Since it has a barrel less than 16" and an OAL of less than 26" it falls under NFA purview, so there is a tax stamp associated (and several months wait).
Given that NASA is a government agency, they just use official letterhead when ordering one and there's no problem.
Also, while it'd end up costing 100x just paying the $200 would, I'm sure they have machine shops that can turn one out quickly and easily enough...
Proof of gun safety? (Score:3)
This might be the only "place in the world" (it's not exactly a place, and it's definitely not on the earth) with the highest gun ratio per capita. It appears to be 1:1.
Yet, there have been no murders that I know of by these guns on the space craft, nor any miss-haps.
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Proof that years of astronaut training and astronaut psychological evaluations should be required before purchase for all gun owners. There'd be no more gun accidents or murders.
Re:Proof of gun safety? (Score:5, Insightful)
So after 35 hours of instruction, somewhere around $7000 is costs, able to pass an annual physical and mental evaluation, and speak clearly in English, . You'd be allowed to drive a 50hp, two passenger car up to 45mph, during the day, non-highway roads only, and only when the weather is clear and sunny. This would apply regardless of which country you live in btw.
If you were ever convicted of reckless behavior or a DUI you'd lose your license forever.
As far as gun owners needing to be astronauts, that's over-kill. Idiots with guns tends to be a self correcting problem. I thought all liberals preached natural selection. Why do they fight so hard against it?
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Why do they fight so hard against it?
Because they sometimes also select against the survival of people around them as well.
Of course, self-driving cars would save far more lives...
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Really? The low murder rate in easy to legally get a gun Plano, Texas and the high murder rate in the hard to legally get a gun city of Detroit beg to differ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... [wikipedia.org]
In fact, oddly enough those places with the highest per-capita murder rates in the US tend to have rather stric
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Liberal scream Evolution, Evolution, Evolution, which is nothing more than the effects of natural selection over the long term, but at the same time they
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You do realise that it's populations, not individuals, which evolve, right? Probably not, hence you vomiting that nonsense for everyone to see, deftly illustrating your knee-jerk reactionism and lack of knowledge backing up your opinions.
You can bandy about words like liberal and liberalism all you wish, but it just shows you are scared and ill-informed. Remember - the people who read your posts might not be as intellectually hindered as you are, and what might seem like a witty retort to you can (and lik
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If the individual cannot survive then the population will not be made up of that individual. With enough pressure from variation and natural selection two populations will drift apart genetically, eventually become incompatible and separate.
My rant pointed out that while Progressives/Liberals tend to push for evolution in the public education arena, yet they
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There's much less reason for anyone to be up to no good in Plano. It's a nice respectable middle class suburb. It's not festering urban decay. That means less junkies and less crime.
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I certainly would not mind this kind of requirements.
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I hate to bring it up but there was the astronaut who went loopy and drove 500 miles in adult diapers to kill her ex-boyfriend. (I forget her name.)
I went on a few dates with this girl who used to work at NASA, in engineering at Goddard and at Houston, she used to know a bunch of astronauts and she said while none of them were total
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Why not ... (Score:2)
Not selecting an AK47 (Score:2)
Primary reason for not taking an AK would primarily be weight and ease of storage.
Plus, an AK isn't suitable for hunting birds if it's going to be a week before they can get to you for a rescue.
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Rifle, no way? A shotgun with both shot and slug ammo would take be fine for birds, deer, bear, wolves
No pure oxygen (Score:5, Insightful)
Having a gun inside a thin-walled spacecraft filled with oxygen sounds crazy,
Having a spacecraft filled with pure oxygen sounds and is crazy. The Apollo 1 fire (1967) showed just how crazy it is. Which is why they don't do it anymore. Neither ISS nor the Russian capsules have a pure oxygen atmosphere. In fact, the ISS atmosphere is ground-level pressure with 20% oxygen. Only the EVA suits have a low-pressure, high-oxygen breathable mix.
Putin's fault! (Score:1)
What sounds crazy? (Score:2)
Sitting on top of a huge canister of highly combustable stuff, propelling you to orbit, isolated in a thin canister full of pressurized tanks of who knows what. And all this solid Soviet craftsmanship.
Why does the (safely stowed away) gun sound like the crazy part here?
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...TP-82 trains on you.
FIFY
Re:Does not make sense (Score:5, Informative)
Quite so. But as described in the Wikipedia article linked the TP-82 is a triple-barreled weapon featuring two smooth-bore 32-guage shotgun barrels and a rifled barrel for firing 5.45×39mm rounds.
Basically two shotguns plus one rifle all sharing a single stock. Where's the problem?
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ZIMBABWE!!!1111
This is not the password field.
on Occulus Rift. In vomitVision(tm). (Score:2)
Maybe that would be more like Descent.
I can't quite figure out how zombies got on the space station. Maybe somebody sends them some bath salts - tainted vodka ?