Regular Exercise Not Enough To Make Up For Sitting All Day 348
An anonymous reader writes: Toronto researchers have found the amount of time a person sits during the day is associated with a higher risk of disease and death, regardless of regular exercise. The paper, published Monday in the Annals of Internal Medicine (abstract), found that prolonged sedentary behavior was associated with a 15 to 20 per cent higher risk of death from any cause; a 15 to 20 per cent higher risk of heart disease, death from heart disease, cancer, death from cancer; and as much as a 90 per cent increased risk of developing diabetes, said Alter. And that was after adjusting for the effects of regular exercise. ... Engaging in 30 to 60 minutes of moderate to vigorous daily exercise does not mean it's OK to then "sit on your rear" for the rest of the day.
Excellent! (Score:5, Funny)
So there is no reason to regularly exercise any more!
Re:Excellent! (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, nice try by whoever wrote the report. I have no intention whatsoever of ungluing my ass from my seat. A 15% higher risk is a trivial price to pay for a lifetime of luxury and decadence.
Better take 2 minute walking breaks then... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sitting for eight or more hours a day can be deadly.
That fact has been hammered home in study after study showing the negative health effects -- including heart disease, poor circulation and joint pain -- associated with being parked on your behind for most of the day. The only sure way to prevent those problems, researchers have said, is to sit far less.
But there is growing evidence that there are ways to reverse the damage without necessarily committing to being on your feet for eight or more hours a day.
A new study by researchers at Indiana University published in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise suggests that the impaired blood flow in leg arteries can actually be reversed by breaking up your sitting regimen with five-minute walking breaks.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/08/take-a-seat-you-may-be-able-to-reverse-the-damage-to-your-health/
GeekDesk! (Score:5, Interesting)
This is why I got my department to buy me a GeekDesk [geekdesk.com] a couple of years ago. I don't stand all day every day, but it lets me stand quite a lot of the time.
Since then, my chronic low-grade upper-back stiffness has decreased a lot—but I find that on weekends, when I tend to sit on the couch with my laptop a lot, it frequently comes back. My legs still sometimes get tired from standing for a few hours at a time, but overall, I think it was a really, really good decision.
If you can't afford a GeekDesk, and think you can handle losing the chair cold turkey, there are much cheaper standing desks that can get you off your butt and on your feet—for your health! :-)
Dan Aris
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Re:GeekDesk! (Score:4, Interesting)
This is why I got my department to buy me a GeekDesk [geekdesk.com] a couple of years ago.
Instead of paying $979 for that desk, I use a regular $39 table, and bought four sections of PVC pipe for $0.79 each, and extended the legs.
My monitor is attached to this arm [amazon.com], so I can swing it between my standing desk and a full recliner. So I work about half the time standing, and half the time laying down. The only time I sit, is in meetings.
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> I wonder how much a standing desk would really help.
I switched to one a few years back. I was extremely skeptical at first.
The first few days of usage was enough to convert me for life. Absolutely love it ! You sit for a while, stand for a while. It breaks up the monotony of not moving. Especially if you take a 5 min break every 45 - 55 mins.
> I would suspect just-standing as you would at a standing desk is better than sitting,
No, as that is too hard on the feet / soles.
> if only because of
Being Alive Shown to be Deadly. (Score:5, Funny)
Being Alive Shown to be Deadly.
After several years of exhaustive research, scientists have found that the greatest single contributor to death is being alive. "In 100% of the cases, the subjects death was preceded by a period of being alive," said one researcher. Even after eliminating other potential contributors, such as accidental death, suicide, etc. and adjusting for the age of the subject, the statistics remain strong. "If you are alive today, then you may die tomorrow."
With the rise of Obamacare, these findings could become even more vital, due to the potential effect that such details could have on the total cost of the program. "I think the insurance industry has known this for years, and has been keeping it away from public knowledge," said one official under condition of anonymity. One possibility would be to establish initiatives to curb the spread of being alive. "By reducing the number of people who are alive, we could significantly decrease the number of deaths, regardless of cause. This could amount to trillions of dollars in government savings, but I am not sure if the general public would be willing to give up on such a well established habit," he continued.
We'll get paid a risk premium now, right? (Score:5, Funny)
Considering how dangerous that desk job is...
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Only if you do your part: Regular expressions at least twice a day!
Eat less (Score:2, Informative)
If you expend less energy it needs to match down consumption too. Americans are so fat because they are used to eating more. You would never see a restaurant like Bucca Di Peppo in Europe. As an American just saying.
A sandwich is or small salad with no sugary soda is what people who are skinny and in Europe eat for lunch. No fries supersized, coffee with sugar, or a Coke on a daily basis.
Re:Eat less (Score:4, Interesting)
Also I would say watch the alcohol consumption. I've seen coworkers put down more than one pitcher of beer and that is not low calorie.
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"I'm 150 pounds and 5'10" "
I would suggest you actually need to *gain* some weight. Thats pretty skinny. (For a guy - if you're a woman ignore this).
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Re:Eat less (Score:4, Informative)
5'10" and 150 lbs is a BMI of 21.5, which is about ideal.
Ten years behind but catching up! (Score:5, Informative)
You seem to have a very utopian idea of Europe. Don't worry, Europe is generally some ten years behind contemporary developments in the States but we are quickly catching up especially in rising obesity and directly linked diseases. The massive portion sizes in the States have not always been this huge and gradually grew. There are enough restaurants over here already offering ridiculously massive portions or all-you-can-eat buffets and they make it their main selling point. Oversize clothes stores can be found everywhere as well.
Re:Ten years behind but catching up! (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to have a very utopian idea of Europe. Don't worry, Europe is generally some ten years behind contemporary developments in the States but we are quickly catching up especially in rising obesity and directly linked diseases. The massive portion sizes in the States have not always been this huge and gradually grew. There are enough restaurants over here already offering ridiculously massive portions or all-you-can-eat buffets and they make it their main selling point. Oversize clothes stores can be found everywhere as well.
Yep, "American" portion sizes are a much more recent thing than people remember, hardly 20 years ago a typical medium fountain drink cup was called a large and a small was the size of a soda can. Triple cheese burgers didn't start showing up at places like Wendy's until around 15 years ago as well.
That said, we really do need to encourage people to drink more water.
If I go to a Burger King and just ask for tap water (for free) I get one of those tiny little cups you might get from a water cooler dispenser - maybe 1/6th the capacity of even a value soft drink. I'd need to refill it about 10 times during the course of a meal since I tend to drink a lot. So, I feel like I'm being punished for drinking water, which is of course the healthiest option there is.
Little cup is not a punishment (Score:5, Interesting)
Little cup is not a Burger King punishment. It is their management decision to limit the water cup size to make attempts to have soda in water cups impractical.
While stealing soda in Burger King sounds like a ridiculous idea, this option has been considered and addressed by reducing paper cup for water size.
Re:Eat less (Score:4)
Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Insightful)
You are screwed. That is our system and if you do not like it, there are a billion Indians who would. Have a nice day 99.99%'er and thank you for dieing to make the .01%'ers even richer - that mega yacht is getting cramped!
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly, I'm in the same situation. The only thing that I can do is at least try to move as much as I can when I am allowed. So, I get up from my desk at least once an hour and walk to someone's office rather than calling them on the phone. Bathroom breaks are taken at the furthest bathroom from my office. When I was in a multi-floor office building I'd go to the bathroom on the floor three down from the office and take the stairs. In the morning I don't park in the spot closest to the building but walk a bit.
I'm still stuck though. The rest of my time is spent typing at my desk or in meetings and I can't exactly stand and pace in the corner of the meeting room.
Re: Limited power to change working situation... (Score:2)
I am in the same position. What I do is set my my desk up so I can fully stretch my legs under neath. Every 15 minutes I tighten as many leg and stomach muscles as I can for at least 30 seconds. It isn't much but it does improve circulation a bit. I just wish I could figure out a way to boost cardio too.
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Informative)
Take a 5 minute walk every hour if you can.
If you have standard cubes you could see about having the desk surfaces mounted at standing desk height. Then all you need is an adjustable chair/stool. You might be able to either arrange that outright, or for a future (and probably inevitable) move as companies are fond of swapping people around.
If you have any health issues or concerns you might talk to your doctor to see if a standing desk would help, and if so get a note. A company that wouldn't do it based on preference might be more inclined to accommodate it to address a health issue. (Of course it is better to avoid the issue to begin with.)
standing desk is incompatible with head-down work. (Score:2, Insightful)
The overseers want to be able to look across the sea of cubes with low walls and see everyone's head bent down, toiling on their work for the owners. The nail/person that stands up gets hammered down.
Have you never heard the term prairie-dogging with respect to cube farms?
And what is this suggestion about walking to the furthest restroom. You're not being paid to walk to the restroom: you're being paid to work, and work you shall! You're lucky we don't just put a slops bucket in your cube that you have t
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Funny)
You can get up and take a five minute smoke break every 30 minutes.
Sitting on your ass all day sounds so bad, taking up smoking might actually be a net-win.
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:4, Interesting)
You can get up and take a five minute smoke break every 30 minutes.
Sitting on your ass all day sounds so bad, taking up smoking might actually be a net-win.
Especially if you don't light the cigarette.
Smoking is one of the few things where you can look at study after study and it's unambiguously very, very bad for you. They don't have to tease correlations out like in the "latitude of birth correlates with risk of hangnails" kind of studies, it just jumps right out of the data.
So take a smoking break, but don't light up. Or at least don't inhale.
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Switch to e-cigarettes. Practically all risks from smoking are because of the tar you inhale, not the nicotine. Nicotine is only harmful in very high doses.
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Informative)
So there is no proof here. But it does highlight an area for future research.
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Insightful)
correlation is the first step in establishing causation
there has never been a single scientific discovery ever that didn't start with a "hey, that's interesting" correlation
so i don't understand how "correlation does not equal causation," a useful phrase meant to remind us to keep an open mind, has evolved into a kneejerk reinforcement to close your mind, "whoa, whoa, i'm not changing my preconceived notions bub when prevented with new evidence"
that's what the phrase has become: a way to wave away data that people aren't comfortable with
"correlation does not equal causation," "correlation does not equal causation," "correlation does not equal causation..." you see it parroted under any article that might challenges someone's ideology or beliefs, all the time
the phrase has become toxic and worse than useless
Correlation (Score:4, Funny)
You're saying that correlation is a leading cause of causation?
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or, or... does correlation only correlate with causation? /s
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http://www.varidesk.com/index.php/varidesk-pro [varidesk.com]
Re: Limited power to change working situation... (Score:3)
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Interesting. I've been looking into sit/stand for my home office. The thing is that it looks like the monitor height only increases by 10" when you extend this (they say 15", but it starts out at 5" based on the dimensions). I'm just over six feet tall. I feel like I'll be staring down at my work with something like this. I'd probably want something that extends upwards something like 2-3 meters beyond the base position.
There just aren't many affordable options for sit/stand right now, though I should
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s/meter/foot - I'm not THAT tall. :)
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Get up and move around occasionally. Take breaks and go for a walk. Stand and stretch in your cubicle from time to time. Get a pedometer or a fitbit or something, shoot for 10,000 steps (yes, it's not a magic number, but it's probably more than most of us do).
You are kind of stuck with your job and your hours. You know this already.
So, you either say "bummer, maybe my kids can do this", or you try to fit it into your day.
It won't happen for you.
(And I say this as someone who is pushing 50, and a little
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You stand up and walk around for a few minutes once every 45 minutes to an hour, that's what you do.
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What am I supposed to do about this?
Question the studies and the motivation behind their being pushed so hard ;-)
Question why studies that reach contrary conclusions get no publicity [thehealthcareblog.com].
Question why, even though there is absolutely zero evidence that stationary standing is better for you, standing desks are being pushed so hard.
Then go for a run.
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> even though there is absolutely zero evidence that stationary standing is better for you, standing desks are being pushed so hard.
False.
I switched to standing desk alternative between siting and standing. I most certainly do feel better as the constant switching every 15 mins or so breaks up the complete monotony and stress of siting all day.
My personal subjective experience over-rules your "data."
Re:Limited power to change working situation... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Ok, partially valid point. If my employer doesn't provide standing desks, and I think that standing desks are worth any potential reduction in salary, relocation, and/or inconvenience associated with finding a new employer, then that is logically what I should do.
However, arguments of that type (which could apply to any workplace safety condition) eventually do eventually break down when one con
Standing desks (Score:5, Interesting)
This really makes me wish it was the norm for employers to provide standing desks. It seems like the evidence is mounting that traditional desks are killing us. But since a decent adjustable standing desk costs ~ $700-$1500 US, they're seen as a luxury.
I'm not sure it would be a bad thing for OSHA to require employers to provide adjustable desks for office workers.
Re:Standing desks (Score:4, Interesting)
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My previous employer did this, presumably because of high rent in a metro area. The resulting cube layout was insane.
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Standing desks DO NOT solve this issue since you are still not moving and poses other health issues. You can't stand in one place all day. People need to sit as well.
Do you know of any articles that back up your claim? I had two reasons for thinking standing desks were an improvement: (1) these articles make sitting sound bad, and standing != sitting, and (2) I wondered if sitting --> obesity --> health problems was one of the causes for sitting --> death.
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Do you know of any articles that back up your claim?
Read this brief on the perils of both sitting and standing [cornell.edu], and then check the references at the bottom. Notably, standing all day leads to varicose veins and puts a strain on your circulatory system.
Just generally, the factory production line taught us long ago that holding the same pose or making the same motions all day long will have chronic repercussions. (If you ever have to work an assembly line, hope it's in a factory that practices job rotation so your tasks are varied over time.)
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I can personally tell that working at a standing desk involves quite a lot of movement. It's not like you have to stand in attention -- you can keep changing your posture, move your feet around, etc. while actually working/typing. I also feel like it solves ADD-type issues to a great extent, as you don't have to fight your body's natural urge to move.
It's true that standing for hours on end isn't great for you either. The idea isn't so much about sitting vs. standing, but not staying in one place/posture
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How is that adjustable? Do you always have to work standing up?
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How is that adjustable? Do you always have to work standing up?
It's not adjustable. A good question, though. My standing desk is for the computer only, and I have another, regular desk for paperwork. I find this a good, balanced setup, as I have quite a bit of paperwork due to studying math. I've also had full coding/writing days on the standing computer with no problems -- I do take breaks, after all.
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I bought one of these [thehumansolution.com] a few months ago. It's pretty spacious, adjustable, and is regularly on sale for $450 or so.If you're in the market for one and don't want to spend lots of money for something fancy, this might be a good option for you.
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This really makes me wish it was the norm for employers to provide standing desks. It seems like the evidence is mounting that traditional desks are killing us.
There is absolutely zero evidence that standing desks are any better. And they cause their own set of problems.
I'm not sure it would be a bad thing for OSHA to require employers to provide adjustable desks for office workers.
So, because you're not sure it would be a bad thing, they should do it???
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I purchased this desk [amazon.com] (Amazon.com) for $286 (with a Prime membership).
I wanted to get a relatively inexpensive standing desk to see how I'd like it. I've been using the desk for two months now and love it. I'm sure it doesn't have all the adjustments more expensive desks have but I feel very comfortable working all day.
It took almost two weeks to adjust to standing all day long, but now I cannot imagine not working at a standing desk. I think part of the aforementioned comfort is due to all the movemen
Re:Standing desks (Score:4, Interesting)
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It's actually pretty hard to overhydrate unless you are slamming down a couple of liters an hour, if you eat a balanced diet, you're not going to be peeing out much in the way of minerals, your body does a pretty good job of keeping them in balance.
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My standing desk consists of a wide board laid on top of two 5 gallon buckets which costs a total of $10-15? Why would you ever pay $700-$1000???? Are we so far away from simple ingenuity?
I was referring to adjustable standing desks. I.e., for the use case where one alternates between standing and sitting as his computer, multiple times per day.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Allow me to summarize every medical finding (Score:4, Insightful)
Anything enjoyable, comfortable, or sinful is bad for you. Ideally, we should all work as rowers on a slave ship eating nothing but cardboard and water.
That must be why our ancestors in the past led such long, disease-free lives.
"15 to 20 per cent higher risk of death (Score:4, Funny)
from any cause"
Isn't the risk of death from any cause 100%? At least for us mortals?
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That's assuming that you've only got one cause trying to kill you. When in fact, there are many competing causes.
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I think that says "people who sit all day have a 15-20% higher chance of dying, no matter what the specific cause".
Long term, yes, nobody gets out alive.
But over the same time period, people who sit all day long are more likely to die sooner -- no matter what it's from.
The implication being that sitting all day seems to help whatever is already killing you do it faster.
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"But over the same time period, people who sit all day long are more likely to die sooner -- no matter what it's from.
The implication being that sitting all day seems to help whatever is already killing you do it faster."
So the people who sit all day have increased their risk of being hit by a large asteroid, but such an impact is going to wipe out the rest of us as well, therefore we need to get those people up and moving or we are all going to die!
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(posting to undo moderation mis-click)
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is sleeping for 8 hours straight as bad? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:is sleeping for 8 hours straight as bad? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to set my alarm clock to go off every hour at night so I can take a 5 minute walk. i'll live forever.
Congratulations! When's your wife due?
Sitting or over eating? (Score:3)
Correlation Causation? (Score:3)
Is this merely a correlation or actual causation directly linked to the sitting? This study-of-studies seems very nebulous at best with different studies having different thresholds for what "prolonged sitting" actually means and what alternatives are there? Are standing desks really an alternative?
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I think a reasonable conclusion to be drawn is that prolonged sitting is associated with a number of bad health outcomes and
Well then we're all doomed (Score:3)
because the sitting all day is happening... so... genetic engineering anyone?
I look forward to a new genetically engineered super species... and of course the gills... and flying squirrel wings... and internal testicles. And I assume women would like to lay eggs or something because they don't appear to like the whole pregnancy thing.
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Yes, we're all doomed... to an average life expectancy of 85+ years, and rising. Spending your days on your butt may cost you a year or two, on average, but given that two hundred years ago your life expectancy would have been around 40 years, drastic action is hardly called for.
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Shhhhh... you're fucking us all out of gills and internal testicles... shut up!
Sheesh! (Score:2)
Engaging in 30-60 minutes of moderate to vigorous daily exercise does not mean it's okay to "sit on your rear" the rest of the day.
Maybe not, but if your lot in life involves sitting for a paycheck, I guarantee you're still better off with the exercise.
It's everywhere (Score:2)
Like granny always said (Score:2)
If it feels good than it is illegal, immoral, or fattening.
Walking Paper? (Score:3)
What if you don't sit still (Score:3)
Also, do any of the negative effects apply, other than perhaps bone stress inherent to putting weight, to someone very active while sitting, such as a drummer?
standing desks (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Needs More Study (Score:2)
Fine. (Score:3)
If I stand for any length of time, my knees hurt. My back hurts. Walking isn't so bad, but standing... ugh. Better to die a little earlier than be in pain all the time, no matter what health researchers think.
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Re:Cause, or effect? (Score:4, Funny)
Are sedentary people more likely to die, or are people more likely to die sedentary?
Dead people are more likely to be sedentary.
Re: higher risk of death (Score:5, Funny)
I just want to know how sitting on my ass all day increases my chance of being eaten by a shark by 15 to 20 percent.
You don't stand a chance against a Land Shark if you're sitting down.
Re: higher risk of death (Score:4, Funny)
I just want to know how sitting on my ass all day increases my chance of being eaten by a shark by 15 to 20 percent.
You don't stand a chance against a Land Shark if you're sitting down.
Plumber
I didn't ask for a plumber. Who is it?
Telegram [spike.com]
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Find an engineering job at a place with a large campus where you have to walk to meetings a lot. I normally work at a site that's built on the side of a mountain, so there's maybe 500 feet of elevation change from bottom to top, and I've typically had to walk a couple laps nearly every day to meet with people, plus various shorter walks for things. Right now I'm temporarily at a subcontractor site that's also a large campus, but it's dead flat and it's not nearly as nice.
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Why do you think all those strongmen, wrestlers etc. rarely live to become very old? Answer: stroke.
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citation needed.
Muscle does not turn into fat. Stop exercising and start eating like crap and your body will lose muscle and will also starting putting on fat. The muscle does not turn into fat. Starting lean and muscular will not cause you to get fat faster.
I would bet you are not currently overendowed with muscle. Nobody who works out would believe this urban myth.
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Muscle doesn't turn to fat. Also, since you are trotting out myths from 30 years ago, sit-ups wont get rid of your gut, and there is no such thing as "toning".
Re:We all have to die one day (Score:5, Informative)
Delaying it is not going to make it any better or worse.
True enough. For death itself.
The thing to really fear is if sitting on your butt all the time increases the risk that you won't be able to enjoy sex for the last 10 years of your life because you'll be too sick to complete the sex act. Even when making love all by yourself. You won't have the heart for it any more. In a very literal way.
That's the true message here. Not that death will take the indolent sooner, but that if you develop one of the sedentary diseases, you will not be able to have much fun in the last, lingering, decades of your life.
Get off your keister and move around a bit. We've got the technology... take your coffee and lunch breaks with a walk with an audio book. Replace your computer desk with a treadmill equiped with a keyboard. Move your butt!
That might be a good rallying cry for all geeks: Move your butt.