Belize's "Blue Hole" Reveals Clues To Maya's Demise 80
An anonymous reader writes The collapse of the Mayan civilization has been a mystery for decades, but now new research suggests that the blue hole of Belize could provide an answer. Studying minerals from Belize's famous underwater cave, researchers have discovered that an extreme drought occurred between AD 800 and AD 900, which is when the Mayan civilization collapsed. From the article: "Although the findings aren't the first to tie a drought to the Mayan culture's demise, the new results strengthen the case that dry periods were indeed the culprit. That's because the data come from several spots in a region central to the Mayan heartland, said study co-author André Droxler, an Earth scientist at Rice University."
Global warming! (Score:5, Funny)
It's so bad that even the past is affected.
Re:Global warming! (Score:5, Funny)
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Global warming! (Score:5, Informative)
You do realize that current leading theories of the cause of the drought in question was mass deforestation caused by the Mayan Civilization?
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This.
And, poor farming practices -- not entirely the Mayan's fault -- and a refusal to migrate away from great wealth and technology.
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And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.
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In other words, climate change caused by human activity?
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Well, it is happening right now in a lot of places and it has happened in the past in the USA too during the infamouse "Dust Bowl Years" in the 1930s.
It is also notorious in a huge part of the Mediterranean such as Spain where human activity has changed the whole southern sea shore from a Mediterranean climate rich in woods into a desert with a large erosion (I have been able to see land eroding away some 2-3 meters in a couple of years). This is Climate Change, and it is certainly Human Induced unless you
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Yeah, me too.
AFAIK it was during the "Little Ice Age"
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Well, at least we don't need automatic guns as Penis Substitutes.
And we write English using the correct spelling ;)
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Regional climate change brings down civilizations -- maybe global climate change is something to take seriously.
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On average, they just don't get that there is an outside world.
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megadrought theory old (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really new news to me, 30 years ago taught that a megadrought was likely cause for collapse of most (not all, continued in the north) of Mayan civilization
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Re:megadrought theory old (Score:4, Informative)
there was evidence for it, so more than hypothesis
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there was evidence for it, so more than hypothesis
That *is* the definition of a hypothsis. Without evidence it would be a "wild ass guess"... perhaps even a "scientific wild ass guess".
When that hypothesis makes predictions capable of falsifying the model, and those predictions are tested and shown accurate... then we can discuss "theory".
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Oh, what other european from central or southern Europe discovered the Americas before Columbus? What record did the norse people who discovered the americas leave in their land of origin (ditto question for the waves of asians who came before that).
Remember, "discover" in the context of exploration does not mean first human ever to find a land. It means finding something unknown to a person or group, that's all. Columbus discovered the Americas for the civilization that sent him.
Re:megadrought theory old (Score:4, Interesting)
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Ignorant! You forget about the many expeditions of the all-powerful Swiss Navy!
Not to speak about Jesus, who was a native Amsterdammer, as it is easy to notice by his blond long hair and stoned look. He just walked over there and discovered America one day he went to visit a Rastafarian friend of his to buy some weed.
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Which has precisely nothing to do with the Mayans, since no Europeans visited any diseases upon them.
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Which has precisely nothing to do with the Mayans, since no Europeans visited any diseases upon them.
I am mayan, and there are plenty of mayans in mexico, belize and guatemala. I hate that people think we died long ago. We got visited plenty by the europeans. And still continue to this day be visited by europeans.
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Get well soon.
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Indeed. I have also a few Mayan friends. If I don't recall it wrongly 70% of the population of Guatemala is Mayan, right?
The Mayan classical culture disappeared, being one of the reason that the Mayan themselves went tired of tyrants and went back to living outside of the great cities in small communities as you are doing right now.
Re:megadrought theory old (Score:4, Informative)
Which "American history" hides this? What I had in HS 30 years ago mentioned Aztec, Maya, Inca cities quite clearly. As well as the droughts and smallpox that seems to have done them in.
Or were you trying to suggest that the Indians north of the Rio Grande also had huge cities? If so, then, to put it politely, you were mistaken....
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Or were you trying to suggest that the Indians north of the Rio Grande also had huge cities? If so, then, to put it politely, you were mistaken....
Depends on your definition of 'huge' but 100,000 people [legendsofamerica.com] seems reasonably large.
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Or were you trying to suggest that the Indians north of the Rio Grande also had huge cities? If so, then, to put it politely, you were mistaken....
Depends on your definition of 'huge' but 100,000 people [legendsofamerica.com] seems reasonably large.
Precisely. Besides, IIRC, at the time, Mexico City was significantly more populous than Paris. And had much better sanitation. But I'm not sure if I ever read it in a textbook.
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100,000 people in Cahokia in the 13th century would have made it about two or three times larger than London at the time.
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Well, if I have to believe Wikipedia, London housed 80.000 souls back in 1300...
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The source [localhistories.org] I used said "At the time of the Domesday Book in 1086 London had a population of about 18,000. By the 14th century it rose to about 45,000." Either way, it's not important: the point I was making is that Cahokia was bigger than London, which is impressive no matter how much bigger it was.
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Or were you trying to suggest that the Indians north of the Rio Grande also had huge cities? If so, then, to put it politely, you were mistaken....
Umm..How about Cahokia [wikipedia.org]?
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Chaco Canyon? Anisazi? Cahokia? Just saying.
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But the important thing to know is that this is just one site. There were similar settlements all up and down
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This guy is probably a Jehovah's Witness because they believe there were huge cities in what became the United States over 1,000 years before Columbus set out for the New World. In fact, they give their invented civilizations names such as Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites and the Book of Mormon talks something about someone named Zarahemla. Of course, there is absolutely no archeaological evidence to back any of this up (and plenty to refute it).
Re:megadrought theory old (Score:5, Informative)
Two different religions who knock on your door. Please don't confuse them.
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Where are these "historical records" of these "tons of expeditions" that were there "before Columbus" ?
And well, we actually know that the South American Indians had big cities, ever heard of Tenochtitlan? Well, they use to call it Mexico DC right now.
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Drought also makes a lot more sense than the other theories put forward in TFA.
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I am 100% native, I am completely native from the site I was born, not a single piece was imported. Unless mom lied to me... and (shudder) the only "imported" males back then were US Soldiers!! Shit, maybe this explains my love for lighting crosses in my neighbors backyards and my love for guns... We are unfortunately not allowed to own our own howitzers and ground-to-ground missiles and as we aren't quite religious here our local extremist Hutaree militia meetings are rather boring.
A time period when a lot happened. (Score:2)
At the same time the Vikings started to become a factor in Northern Europe. So it's not improbable that this was a global phenomenon where many other changes also occurred.
Wikipedia attributes the fall of the Mayan Civilization to the 10th century [wikipedia.org], but some delay from cause to effect is not unexpected.
In any case - this overall indicates that changes topples some structures while new ones starts to thrive. If your civilization starts to relax then nature will throw something unexpected at you and if you hav
"Evidence", not clues. (Score:2)
Although the findings aren't the first to tie a drought to the Mayan culture's demise, the new results strengthen the case that dry periods were indeed the culprit.
This is kind of an understatement. Drought has been one of the (if not THE) leading theories for the Mayan decline source. Jared Diamond called it out as the cause in his popular book Collapse [wikipedia.org] almost a decade ago.
Its good to see some more data points confirming this theory, but that appears to be all this is.
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i came here to say the exact opposite thing: evidence, not discovery. FTFS:
Studying minerals from Belize's famous underwater cave, researchers have discovered that an extreme drought occurred between AD 800 and AD 900
i chafe whenever anybody says something like "scientists discovered that...". A good scientist will tell you that all he does is find evidence which may support or contradict a number of competing theories. Nobody "discovers" anything.
Well, be chafed. (Score:2, Informative)
That is patently ridiculous. Definition of "discover" [merriam-webster.com]:
to see, find, or become aware of (something) for the first time
to show the presence of (something hidden or difficult to see) : to make (something) known
to learn or find out (something surprising or unexpected)
The "finding of evidence" sounds exactly like what is defined here. Evidence itself is discovered. If the just-discovered evidence is sufficiently compelling to accept a conclusion, then as a matter of linguistic conv
Re: "Evidence", not clues. (Score:2)
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Not unexpected (but cool to know!). Jared Diamond is essentially a popular non-fiction author who can "speak science" thanks to a background in Biology. Thus any information in his books is known ("old") information being synthesized for a popular audience. Sometimes the logical results of that synthesis might be somewhat novel, but the information itself is not. So I knew when I read it (again a decade ago), that this must have already been the accepted consensus for a while.
The book by the way is Collaps [wikipedia.org]
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I would also recommend the more recent work (2005) of scientific popularization 1491 by Charles Mann. He also has a good section devoted to the Maya.
Hello California (Score:3)
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No, no, I'm sure we're due to slip off in the ocean any time now.
Not a Mystery (Score:2)
"Blue Hole"? Not porn, is a sinkhole (Score:1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org]
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Not porn?
In this case I am afraid that I am not interested.
Offense to the gods? (Score:2)
Wow, they must have really ticked off their gods. A 100 year drought? What did they do, accidentally sacrifice a non-virgin?
Mayan Calendar (Score:1)
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Well, yeah, my fault. I should have configured it to use an NTP server... and then the BIOS battery died and the rest is history.
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