Group Tries To Open Source Seeds 100
jenwike writes The Open Source Seed Initiative is a passionate group that wants to ensure their seeds are never patented, but making sure seeds are free for use and distribution by anyone isn't as easy as you might think. Part of the equation are plant characteristics, like an extended head on lettuce — is that an invention? Or, would you argue that it is the product of the collective sharing of material that improves the whole crop over time? In this report, one farmer says, "If you're not exchanging germplasm, you're cutting your own throat."
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"If you're not exchanging germplasm, you're cutting your own throat."
That's what I always say too! Except for here it might actually make sense.
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Don't be ridiculous. Farmers had been genetically modifying crops and livestock LONG before Monsanto and its ilk existed. Do you think modern crops and farm animals look anything like their ancestors just a few hundred years ago? Selectively breeding crops and animals has been around for thousands of years, and we're all still here.
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No one makes or has ever sold sterile seeds. A gene is not "for" an organism. A gene is a sequence of DNA code that does something. There's nothing inherently "spider" about a gene. And here's the most hilarious part.
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You've never heard of terminator seeds, have you?
The seeds will grow normally but the seeds from the grown plants will die upon germination.
Re: Monsanto (Score:2)
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Yeah, this. If it weren't for genetic modification, the world would have reached its carrying capacity for humans ages ago. This is what I hate about the debate about GMOs: all the damned ignorance and fundamental misunderstanding of the term "genetically modified".
Course, most of that frustration holds true for many other debates as well.
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humanity would be already extinct if we hadn't been genetically modifying food for thousands of years already. Almost every farm animal or crop has been genetically breed/xbreed over thousands of years to be a viable food source. Just compare native varieties of the various products to the farm versions. this planet could not support a fraction of the population it has without genetically modified foods.
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Yeah, so....
1) Monsanto isn't using the Terminator seeds anymore
2) Monsanto seeds (and other GMO crops, and most seeds) are high intensity farming, if society falls apart these seeds will pretty much not grow without our existing infrastructure for irrigation and fertilizer. The food in the imagined post-apocalyptic world won't be the same as it is now. With how much energy per acre is required for these crops, you're screwed with or without terminator seeds. Sorry to break it to you.
3) Seed banks, germplas
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This is what you sound like.
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Hell, Monsanto NEVER sold Terminator seeds. I find that people who rant about them as an example of the evils of Monsanto invariably don't know what the hell they are talking about. It is a nice bellwether.
True. They've just patented Terminator seeds [npr.org]. But they've promised never to use the patent. So nothing to worry about there then.
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I think people may be confusing hybrid seeds with terminator seeds.
Most modern seeds are a cross between two parent lines. They are not stable and the next generation of seeds will not have the same carefully selected properties. This is not done on purpose to prevent them from being reused - it's just a property of the most effective method of generating seeds with targeted properties.
High quality open source seeds will most likely be hybrids, too. You will not be able to reuse their seeds. But the parent
Re:Monsanto (Score:5, Informative)
It's also a way to ensure that GMO seeds can't spread beyond their intended planting and coincidentally would resolve a major issue with GMO approval in Europe.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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That would be a good safety measure except that there's nothing to prevent the pollen from giving a neighboring crop the terminator trait.
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Nope, but secure channel issues are already visible.
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And what would that accomplish? If the courts recognize those patents, of course companies will get them.
The problem is with the courts and the laws, not with Monsanto. Neither party has done sh*t to address this. One party remains silent, while the other party hides its own corrupt agenda behind fake anti-corporate rhetoric.
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Neither party has done sh*t to address this.
Nobody's asking them to... The voters said, *Carry on with what you are doing*. There is no incentive to change anything at all. Don't look to the 'party' for help..
Or we could just murder monsanto execs (Score:2)
Story I heard as a kid (Score:5, Interesting)
My people were farmers. There was a story I was told as a kid.
A farmer went on a long journey. When he came back, he had a new corn seed. He planted it and had yields 50 bushels per acre higher he had last year and it was much higher than all his neighbors. His neighbors wanted to buy seed from the farmer. He refused to sell it to him.
The next year, the farmer's yield was only 35 bushels per acre better than his neighbors. Every year it decreased, until his yield per acre was back at the original amount.
The moral of the story is twofold. First, crops germinate.
Second, a rising tide raises all boats if you let it. Just because your neighbors also have more grain doesn't mean you'll have less. With more grain, you can raise more head of cattle, have more chickens, reduce the amount of grain and begin raising vegetables. Even if the price of grain declines, the amount you can do with that grain should offset the decline.
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In a competitive world you are competing against your fellow producers. If you have a competitive advantage you can produce more chickens/vegetables/cows/whatever - leaving the price of grain alone. You end up with more money. If everyone has this advantage - either the price of grain goes down (in which case everyone is back to making the same amount of money) or everyone lowers their grain production - starts to grow ve
Re:Story I heard as a kid (Score:5, Insightful)
My degree is in economics. What you are proposing is a zero-sum game. This is not how life works.
If you can get more grain out of a field, that will enable you to use that grain for other purposes. Cattle, chickens, etc. Your food choices increase. You can put some of the field into lumber at the same overall bushel production. Heck, you work less hard for the same number of calories. You can get a job in manufacturing perhaps. Basically, the increase in calorie production means an overall improved quality of life for both the individual farmer and the community as a whole.
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I think you may be overestimating your knowledge of both farming and economics.
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OK. Let me explain it another way. A technology innovation has shifted part of the production possibility frontier curb.
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And what does your economics theory says happens to profits for an inelastic good when production increases? Or in more specific terms, during a famine (low farm production) are farmers the first or the last to go broke?
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Re:Story I heard as a kid (Score:5, Informative)
Yea no...
In farming, a rising tide tanks the commodities market and all the boats sink at the same time.
Take a look at the price of corn over the past couple of years. First there was a drought through much of the midwest... so yields were low for corn and hay. This drove the price of feed through the roof. I saw hay going for $7 to $10 a bail... the highest I've ever seen. It was so expensive that it cost more to feed animals through the winter than the animals were worth. Farmers slaughtered their herds en-mass. That drove the price of beef through the floor, making breeders cut back on their investments. Which lead to this year, no one wanted beef cattle because the price was so low... there were already tiny herds due to the price of feed and the mass slaughter last fall... then we got record rainfall this year. As a result there's way way way too much grain this year. The price of corn is at an all time low. So low that most of the corn around here is still in the field. Farmers aren't harvesting it because the diesel to do so costs more than the corns worth.
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>no one wanted beef cattle because the price was so low.
Many of us don't want beef that was fed on corn anyway.
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I'm glad you're wealthy enough that you can get prissy about what the thing you're eating, ate prior to you eating it.
But that's not really relevent since grass fed herds were slaughtered as well. The drought affected all silage, not just corn.
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>I'm glad you're wealthy enough that you can get prissy about what the thing you're eating
It's nothing to do with wealth. It's to do with what cows evolved to eat.
They eat grass in countries of all wealth levels. It's only places with bizarre corn subsidies that their primary food is corn.
>But that's not really relevent since grass fed herds were slaughtered as well.
And I ate some of them. Win-win, except for the cow.
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It's nothing to do with wealth. It's to do with what cows evolved to eat.
They eat grass in countries of all wealth levels. It's only places with bizarre corn subsidies that their primary food is corn.
Farmers feed cows corn because it's the cheapest feed. You can argue corn subsidies all you want, I don't care.
There are about 49 million people in this country however, that do not get regular meals due to poverty and would like beef to be as cheap as possible:
http://www.feedingamerica.org/... [feedingamerica.org]
I bet they would dispute your opinion of corn subsidies...
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>I bet they would dispute your opinion of corn subsidies...
I suspect they would prefer to not be poor over having to eat unhealthy cheap meat from unhealthy cows fed an unhealthy cow-diet.
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If you let it. I think the people in this project are concerned about corporations suing the neighbors who 'illegally use' their patented seeds.
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If you're talking about "accidental contamination" like Percy Schmeiser, stop watching propaganda documentaries and try reading about the actual cases. There was nothing "accidental" about them.
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The next year, the farmer's yield was only 35 bushels per acre better than his neighbors. Every year it decreased, until his yield per acre was back at the original amount.
I'm not surprised.
Corn demands fertile soil, consistent moisture and warm weather.
Corn is a heavy feeder - particularly of nitrogen - and may require several sidedressings of fertilizer for best yields. Look for signs of nutrient deficiency. Purple-tinged leaves are a sign of phosphorus deficiency. Pale green leaves are a sign of nitrogen deficiency.
Sweet corn [cornell.edu]
A farmer went on a long journey.
or more likely to the nearest agricultural supply house or freight depot, where American farmers have been taking delivery of seed from commercial growers since before the Civil War.
Ferry-Morse can be traced back to 1856, Burpee to 1876.
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If he had an ounce of sense he would have sold the seed to every farmer he could find sold his farm then shorted corn in the commodities market and retired.
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That word does not mean what you think it does.
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A rising tide may not lift all boats. Let's say that rather than giving your hybrid to all neighbors, you give it to the world. Now everyone in the world raises yields by 50 bpa. And now, you've glutted the market and the price per bushel is so low no one makes a profit, so the farmers go bust. Or the farmers agree to destroy commodities to keep the price up. That happened with dairy products during the great depression. Dairy farmers produced too much, prices collapsed, farmers could no longer buy feed for
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(in the near future, in a United Nations court of law)
"Monsanto, you have been accused of crimes against humanity."
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GMO has nothing to do with it. It's more about preventing disease, nematodes, and other things getting here because someone was an idiot.
GMO seeds are highly regulated, grown by and certified by seed growers, and usually carry a guarantee to be free of disease, but still, I doubt you'd be able to bring those across too.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/600/kw/seeds/sno/1
Re: Most of the problem is Monsanto, the Great Sat (Score:2)
Then give the consumers a choice to not buy GMO. Label products as GMO. No one is forced to buy doesn't apply, when that piece of information is not available.
Also they should stop patenting genes, which spread naturally into neighboring farms.
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Then give the consumers a choice to not buy GMO. Label products as GMO.
Plenty of products are already labeled as NOT GMO. So people already have a choice.
Re: Most of the problem is Monsanto, the Great Sat (Score:4, Insightful)
Then give the consumers a choice to not buy GMO. Label products as GMO.
Plenty of products are already labeled as NOT GMO. So people already have a choice.
Not plenty enough. I am in the US west coast in a fairly large city, with a whole foods and a choice of stores. I honestly dont find enough products labelled GMO free.
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Then grow your own
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In my state organic certification doesnt require it to be GMO free. Plus organic certification only covers fresh produce, I eat a lot of stuff that is not fresh produce.
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Then give the consumers a choice to not buy GMO. Label products as GMO. No one is forced to buy doesn't apply, when that piece of information is not available.
Also they should stop patenting genes, which spread naturally into neighboring farms.
Companies are free to label as such.
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No shit. There's a reason why plant materials are quarantined, and it isn't some big GMO conspiracy. That's the problem with you anti-GMO people; you're so certain of your position, but you never even heard of quarantines for agricultural pests and diseases. Was your friend certain that there was no spores or pest eggs hidden on those seeds, and how were the regulators to know? I hope you've got a good answer.
complain to lawmakers (Score:2)
Plant patents were originally only intended to apply to non-sexual reproduction. Courts changed that in 2001, Congress remained silent, and no president seems to have made this a big issue when appointing judges.
Congress and the executive are condoning the creeping extension of the patent system while at the same time shoving billions in the hands of big agribusinesses. Like 1984's "two minutes of hate", the anti-corporate talk by many politicians is just a distraction from the reality that it is they thems
New member of the Dibbler family? (Score:1)
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Or a pie filled with a vaguely meat-like substance? Best with LOTS of mustard.
More power to you (Score:5, Interesting)
As an interested lay person, I'm thrilled to hear about this initiative. Not to sound ungrateful, but I would really really wish and hope that
- This initiative will always retain the bazaar mindset, and not get bogged down by bureaucracy
- This initiative will spread into the continents where this is needed the most - Asia and Africa.
- The options for seeds grows beyond vegetables and into grains and other basic nutrition foods. Ref: http://www.opensourceseediniti... [opensource...iative.org]
- They use this platform to spread awareness and accessibility to some of the really hardy native crops in various parts of the world that are dying out. Many of these are naturally drought and pest resistant, grow very easily, and in some cases, have much better nutritional value than many of the foods that are today more fashionable.
The moringa plant, for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
To compare (an example):
100 grams of moringa leaves has 9.3 g protein, 434 mg calcium, 738 g vitamin A, and 164 mg vitamin C
100 grams of spinach leaves has 2.9 g protein, 99 mg calcium, 469 g vitamin A, and 28 mg vitamin C
And this tree grows even in a desert. But I don't want to goo offtopic. This was just an example.
My only hope is that a platform like this - can and should - make knowledge and seeds accessible to all. We can literally solve world hunger and world health by doing this.
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There is a reason that we grow the crops that we do - they can be grown very densely, w
Re:More power to you (Score:5, Interesting)
Where your link to moringa is interesting - Looking at the production of it, it sure doesn't seem like you get a lot of density in a given acre of production. For example, lets compare the nutrients produced from one acre of muringa vs. one acre of spinach (rice/wheat/corn). How many pounds of leaves can you get out of an acre of moringa, and how intense is the labor to get that acre harvested vs. one acre of spinach?
There is a reason that we grow the crops that we do - they can be grown very densely, with the least amount of fertilizer, insecticide, water as possible as those things all take money to provide. There is also a need for the minimum amount of labor to plant, maintain and harvest the crops.
You make a good point. But I wonder if the food we grow are always based on scientifically optimal choices or often based on other factors. Like one crop being grown more widely because it commands a higher price. Or changing food habits and inordinate preference to certain grains and veggies.
The other thing to consider is access to information and access to grains. Are we growing or not growing (a crop like muringa) because of an informed decision, or because most of the world is not even aware of these options?
Other things to consider are that plants like muringa will grow in most places where you wouldn't dream of growing spinach. This is not just a third world problem. Even in most developed countries, good access to irrigation and "the right climate" are often deal breakers.
Finally, I find the tree (perennials that live for many years) vs plant (that typically die on every harvest) debate - an interesting one. It is something I feel that we need to focus on more deeply. Is it really an optimal choice to grow a plant from scratch every year? Could a tree or a perennial shrub provide better long term nutritional returns? Isn't a mature tree far hardier and less susceptible to crop loss?
Mind you, I am not saying you are wrong. All I am saying is that we definitely need more awareness about more such options, better access to seeds and how to grow them in different climatic and soil conditions. And more informed debates. And we really need to discuss this far more than Kim Kardashian's buttocks.
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Is it really an optimal choice to grow a plant from scratch every year? Could a tree or a perennial shrub provide better long term nutritional returns? Isn't a mature tree far hardier and less susceptible to crop loss?
Fruit/nut trees also take a long time to come to maturity, like 5-10 years per tree. All that time, they're not producing a sellable product.
Mature tree crops fall hard to disease all the time. Oranges, for one, spring to mind.
Better to grow a variety of things.
Re:More power to you (Score:4, Informative)
Is it really an optimal choice to grow a plant from scratch every year? Could a tree or a perennial shrub provide better long term nutritional returns? Isn't a mature tree far hardier and less susceptible to crop loss?
Fruit/nut trees also take a long time to come to maturity, like 5-10 years per tree. All that time, they're not producing a sellable product.
Mature tree crops fall hard to disease all the time. Oranges, for one, spring to mind.
Better to grow a variety of things.
FYI, there is a lot of research being done in trying to make perennial versions of many of the grains and vegetables we currently eat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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But I wonder if the food we grow are always based on scientifically optimal choices or often based on other factors. Like one crop being grown more widely because it commands a higher price. Or changing food habits and inordinate preference to certain grains and veggies.
As a gardener, I can tell you that there is a surprising amount we don't know about the things we grow. Every time I start working on learning to grow a new fruit or vegetable I rediscover this.
For example, take strawberries. The conventional wisdom is that a strawberry plant will bear well for a few years, then needs to be replaced. And yet I hear people claiming that they have strawberry patches which they've basically done nothing to maintain, which have produced lots of fruit for decades. As far as
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So, as soon as we "solve" world hunger, humans will irresponsibly reproduce until there are too many *again*. Somehow, I don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through.
The problem isn't "enough food" the problem is "too many humans". Increasing the food supply just increases the number of humans.
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100 grams of moringa leaves has ... 738 g vitamin A
Great Scott! Over 700% of the weight of the plant is vitamin A!
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Eventually, it's all open source (Score:1)
Patents have a limited span, no? When the patent runs out, it's anybody's game. So, what's the problem?
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Patents have a limited span, no? When the patent runs out, it's anybody's game. So, what's the problem?
Pedants have a limited life span too.
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IMHO such patents are highly unethical and do nothing for humanity as a whole.
Do you honestly think that everyone is just going to get together, sing Kumbaya, and collectively kick-in to donate the $ billions needed to do R&D to develop these higher-yield/easier-to-maintain crops, with no profit motive? It's a lovely thought. But aside from this proposed seed collective, I don't see a whole lot of other organizations out there stepping up to the plate and offering to replace Monsanto for free.
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It used to be government sponsored agricultural universities that did this and it worked fine and still does. Now, however, those universities patent the varieties they develop. If a bunch of farmers want to get together and collectively agree to pitch in some money to support an agricultural university in their state that would do this in collaboration with similar institutions across the country that works perfectly fine and facilitated by our representative government and political process.
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This is why the Menonites do what they do. (Score:1)
During the depression of the last century many members of the communities were "marks" ( a mark on the fence or tree at the end of a drive where a human could find work, shelter and most importantly a meal without questions or judgements or sermons or any encumbrance) The faith in the inherent goodness of human kind is all that was asked.
Perhaps the seeds of our toils are of greater import than seeds of gold with shackles attached that are currently being horded away by some people and their corporate cons
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I wasn't aware of the Mennonite practice, but I know that hobos used to "mark" houses all over North America this way. If you gave one hobo a sandwich, others would eventually show up who had never actually met the first hobo or talked to anyone about it; they learned of your generosity by seeing the mark he had left at the start of your property. They used various chalk marks, piles of stones, bent branches etc. to designate "generous folks"/"work available"/"stay away, they are nuts"/"good for one meal" a
The government will help (Score:2)
But as soon as it starts working or having value the FDA will start asking for records about what you started with, unusual behavior, how much revenue you are making, what your prayers are like, and which political organizations you are affiliated with. Their buddies in the EPA, IRS will soon see y
seed banks (Score:2)
This is a good place to discuss the seed banks around the world where the genetic diversity of endangered (and extinct) plants is protected. I'm not expert but perhaps you are.
Also, it seems that the opensourceseedinitiative site hasn't seen any activity for many months. Are they endangered too?
Patents last 20 years (Score:2)
Re:Patents last 20 years (Score:4, Insightful)
How is this different from "Seed Savers Exchange"? (Score:2)
http://www.seedsavers.org/ [seedsavers.org] "Seed Savers Exchange is a non-profit organization dedicated to saving and sharing heirloom seeds. Since 1975, our members have been passing on our garden heritage by collecting and distributing thousands of samples of rare garden seeds to other gardeners. "
Question based on the thread title alone: (Score:2)
What is a "source seed"? And how do you open them? (I guess they didn't know, that's why they "tried" to open them.)