What Will It Take To Run a 2-Hour Marathon? 254
HughPickens.com writes Alex Hutchinson writes at Runner's World that runners have cut the distance to the sub-two marathon in half since 1998, but it will get progressively harder to trim the remaining seconds. Still, the physiologists tell us that it's not impossible, meaning it is possible. Hutchinson says it will take several things: a cold day in March or November; a straight, flat course that is mind-numbingly boring; pacemakers who will shepherd leaders around the course cutting the wind and setting the pace; and a runner with a frame of about 5'6", weight of about 120 pounds, and towering self-confidence.The road is so flat and straight, you can see them coming from a mile away. Six runners flow in arrowhead formation around the Canadian city of Saskatoon. The early November air is still and dry, the sky overcast, and the temperature hovers a bit above freezing, just as predicted. All in their early 20s, they've been training together for this moment for years; only in the last month did their coach select which three will go for the record. The remaining three form the front of the arrowhead, blocking the wind and enduring the mental effort of controlling the pace. Should one of them cross the finish line in two hours—or faster—all six will share equally in the $50 million jackpot promised by the heirs to the Hoka One One fortune. The pot of money is up for grabs, for any runner, anywhere in the world. The chase is on. So, will they make it? And what year is this? I'm saying the year is...2075—and they make it.
Summary (Score:3, Informative)
Alex Hutchinson writes at Runner's World that runners have cut the distance to the sub-two marathon in half since 1998, but it will get progressively harder to trim the remaining seconds.
Writing fail. Don't use the term "distance" to discuss intervals in time, especially when the topic specifically involves covering a specific distance as fast as possible. At first I thought they meant that the distance the runners have to race has been reduced in order to be able to run it in two hours.
Time and Distance are not measured the same way (Score:2)
Actually that's just how you're thinking about it. Dan East is correct, time and distance are fundamentally different dimensions [wikipedia.org].
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Dan East is not correct, time and distance are fundamentally the same thing [closertotruth.com]
FTFY
Well, maybe they're not exactly the same, but to say they are fundamentally different is a bit of a troll for somewhere like slashdot? The interviews are interesting and well worth watching anyway.
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Re:Summary (Score:5, Informative)
However without the reference to Runner's World it's not even clear that the piece is about athletics. It could have meant any sort of marathon: watching a TV series, eating long sandwiches: anything.
Wouldn't it have been simpler, clearer to write something like:
In the past 16 years, marathon runners have cut the world record from 2hr 06:23 to 2hr 03:23. But as they get closer to the 2 hour mark, further improvements will become progressively harder to achieve.
Re:Summary (Score:4, Funny)
No, you're not quite there yet. To be an appropriate Slashdot summary it should go:
In the past sixteen (base 10) years, Marathon [wikipedia.org] runners (people who run 42.195 km (or 26 miles) for recreation [wikipedia.org], god rest their souls) have cut the word record from 2 hours six minutes and twenty three seconds to 2 hours three minutes and twenty three seconds, further improvment's will become progressively harder to achieve.*
*spelling and punctuation errors intentional
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> Wouldn't it have been simpler, clearer to write something like:
> In the past 16 years, marathon runners have cut the world record from 2hr 06:23 to 2hr 03:23. But as they get closer to the 2 hour mark, further improvements will
> become progressively harder to achieve.
Maybe the intent would have been clearer to others (it wasn't confusing to me). Either way, I certainly like puzzles and this is /. Having a bit of fun with phrasing, is not clumsy from my perspective. The statement is, simply, cleve
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The word they were looking for is 'inter-vole'....joke you fuckwits, isn't spell check nice.
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"It may well make sense to the tiny minority of people who know (or care) what a "sub-two" marathon refers to".
Well, there are hundreds of marathons (probably thousands, in fact) in the world every year. Many of them have thousands of competitors. So there may be about a million people who actually run marathons - plus many more who follow the sport and know about it.
So I very much doubt your assertion. It's of the same order as
"...the tiny minority of people who know (or care) what a 'scripting language' r
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You're still a fucking grammar nazi though.
Nazi is a proper noun, and should be capitalized. When a preceding adjective is combined with a proper noun into a noun phrase, it should be capitalized as well. So it is not "grammar nazi" or even "grammar Nazi", but "Grammar Nazi".
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Nice.
Duh.... (Score:3)
almost. (Score:3)
Re:almost. (Score:4, Funny)
Exactly 120 minutes. No more, no less.
That's harder than it sounds.
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Heisenberg says it's impossible.
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Was he or was he not a marathon runner?
News for nerds? (Score:4, Funny)
I thought this was news for nerds.
My idea of exercise is reaching for the remote, and my idea of a marathon involves many movies.
Get this shit off my lawn.
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Re:News for nerds? (Score:4, Funny)
No, no, this is only *talking* about exercising - it's okay.
Could do it in a year (Score:2)
if we'd drop all the drug-testing requirements. Performance enhancing drugs WORK.
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Put treadmill on car. Put runner on treadmill. Drive car to finish line. Profit.
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Bad idea. Downhill is harder on the knees and quads than running flat. I would rather run uphill over distance than the equivalent downhill any day. It's more work, but far less damaging.
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"Just make the course downhill all the way".
With exactly that in mind, the rules require a closed circuit for record purposes. So you'd need M.C. Escher to design it.
What a great summary (Score:4, Funny)
You don't say.
web design (Score:2)
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In other words, when other people make mistakes they are wrong: we must set them right and rebuke them. But when we make mistakes, anyone who sets us right should be rebuked for acting like a "Nazi".
2075? Nope. (Score:2)
It's only "2075" if human performance follows a smooth curve.
What it will take in reality is two or three extreme performers in a group, each putting in a run equivalent to a Bob Beamon long jump. Actually, less. You're looking at about a five percent increase in performance versus the current world record.
There are certainly at least three people like that in the world right now - people with the right build, freakish VO2 max scores, and the sort of mental determination to stick with professional marathon
The Elephant in the Room (Score:4, Insightful)
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A wheelchair (Score:3)
and a downhill course
Re:A wheelchair (Score:4, Interesting)
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and a downhill course
Worth noting that there are limits on how downhill a marathon course can be to be considered for world records.
Wikipedia states [wikipedia.org] that "The decrease in elevation between the start and finish shall not exceed an average of one in a thousand, i.e. 1m per km".
Isn't "Cutting the Wind" cheating? (Score:2)
If you have someone running in front, cutting the wind, (called "drafting" in car and bicycle races) then you aren't really running a fair course. Might as well run it all downhill or with a wind at your back.
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I thought about that too. That said maybe someone should put together a mechanical device to accomplish all of this. You could probably do it very effectively with a large cargo van with part of the floor cut out.
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Well, they have done some testing with jet packs: http://www.livescience.com/480... [livescience.com]
Even with an increase in weigh the jetpack increases speed.
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It's not cheating if it's part of the strategy of the event. See also: NASCAR, speed skating, bicycle racing, etc. It just means that in addition to raw speed, the runner needs to effectively manage the interactions with other runners.
At any rate, this arbitrary milestone would have been achieved long ago if the wavelength of light emitted by exited caesium 133 atoms were only a tiny fraction of a percent longer.
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At any rate, this arbitrary milestone would have been achieved long ago if the wavelength of light emitted by exited caesium 133 atoms were only a tiny fraction of a percent longer
You mean: if the Earth rotated a bit slower.
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Isn't "Cutting the Wind" cheating?
Isn't anything is cheating or not cheating relative to a constant set of rules that are applied consistently? The current set of rules happens to allow wind-cutting and refreshment points along the track, but not 1000m downhill slopes or using a motorcycle.
Wind, not still air. (Score:3)
The summary implies that the front triangle of runners will be necessary to cut the wind generated from the athletes running through the air, and thus, that the air is still.
Wind at the runners' backs, on the other hand, obviates that issue entirely.
Also, just above freezing is probably too cold because it requires extra clothing (and thus weight) to protect the extremities. Ideal running weather is in the 50s F / 10s C.
The summary further posits that a flat, straight course is best without citing any evidence. Do we know that sustained, constant exertion is more efficient over a two hour period than exertion that has a cyclic component? Yes, a course that has gentle ups and downs will probably take more energy to run (as the runners need to lift themselves up each hill, and don't generally get that energy back), but is there empirical evidence that it will always be slower? Consider the extreme of a course that starts out at a higher elevation than it finishes, but is strictly linear in altitude between the start and finish lines. It will surely be faster than a straight, flat course without any change in elevation.
The limiting factor, it would seem to me, is that the ideal course to minimize speed has not been constructed.
Re:Wind, not still air. (Score:5, Informative)
Wind at the runners' backs, on the other hand, obviates that issue entirely.
Except that for the record to be accepted, start and finish of the race cannot be further apart than 50% of the total distance. That means that at least for part of the race, the wind cannot be consistently from their back (unless it happens to be turning at the right time). In that case, a strong wind is most likely a disadvantage overall.
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That means that at least for part of the race, the wind cannot be consistently from their back (unless it happens to be turning at the right time).
There's the loophole. I bet with proper timing on the appropriate course they can consistently get that to happen.
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A course in a large C shape then with two short arms 0.25 of the distance, and a long middle arm of 0.5 the distance, with prevailing wind down the long arm. Start and finish are 0.5 apart. Extra runners act as a wind shield on the appropriate side during the short arms, and the record challenger has the wind at their back for the long arm. Might work.
I'm curious about the assertion that start and finish have to be so close together. That's certainly not the case in Boston, one of the most famous marath
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race times in boston do NOT count as a world record. as was evidenced in 2011. it was a wonderful day that day, cool, tailwind, awesome.
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The limiting factor, it would seem to me, is that the ideal course to minimize speed has not been constructed.
As a starting point, I'd suggest making the entire course uphill, covered either with loose scree or extremely dense vegetation (machete not allowed), and have it include at least a few river crossings.
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Whoops. Right. Would be great to be able to edit posts, eh?
s/minimize/maximize/
Sorry but... (Score:2, Informative)
Please explain me what would be the point of that. If you want to break the arbitrary 2 hours limit in a Marathon, you should run the course between Marathon and Athens, with no water except what you can get from streams, and alone. That should be something, perhaps, specially if you drop dead in the end, proving you really had given your all.
If you are allowed to changing the route and having helpers, both in route and as water-offering minions, you can choose a route that slowly descends for most of the c
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That's silly. Completing THIS Marathon in 2 hours, that would be a real accomplishment!
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy [wikipedia.org]
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If you are allowed to changing the route and having helpers, both in route and as water-offering minions, you can choose a route that slowly descends for most of the course (ideas?), or where winds are always favorable.
As has been commented elsewhere, there are limits on how downhill the race can be (no greater than an average of 1 in 1000) and the straight-line distance between the start and the finish can be no more than 50% of the total distance (i.e. there are limits to how favourable the wind can be, especially as running into then against the wind doesn't entirely balance itself out).
I hate the marathon (Score:3, Funny)
The route of the marathon in my city completely encircles the block I live on, so from 1am tomorrow morning until 6pm tomorrow night I won't be able to get off my block. It sucks. At about 5am tomorrow, I will start to hear people lining up in front of my house with little cowbells that they use to cheer on the runners and then at about 6:00 am, the bad blues band (because Chicago marathon, get it) will start to warm up. It's like someone threw a party at your house at six in the morning and not only do you hate parties at 6am but they never asked your permission.
I don't get grumpy very often, but the annual marathon makes me grumpy. The only fun part is watching the paramarathoners go by first, on their high-tech racing wheelchairs, going like crazy and then the first few runners glide by, looking like they could run forever and then five hours later, the fatsos huffing and puffing and looking like they'd kill for a cigarette and a slice of pie.
Oh hell, let them have their party.
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I don't get grumpy very often, but the annual marathon makes me grumpy.
Given that's its annual, and thus extremely predictable when it runs, couldn't you have done something like .. um .. leave for the weekend?
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Oh, oh, since you mention it, all the goofball co-workers and friends of the poor fools running the marathon will be standing on my lawn tearing up the last of the grass. Then, when they leave, I'll find a pile of "Bank of America Loves the Marathon" boom sticks, empty packets of that gatorade super power formula squeeze packs, freebie water bottles and empty syringes of human growth hormone mixed with methamphetamine. And because my block is a nice quiet residential place, a bunch of the marathoners will
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Close the windows and use the day for a Dr Who marathon or so.
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By the way, here's an update on the preparations for the marathon tomorrow. There are right now cops in black uniforms with bomb-sniffing nazi police dogs going up and down my block, probably getting the dogs familiar with the neighborhood and the smells. So on top of the sight of emaciated people running down my street tomorrow, I have to worry about some homegrown ISIS douchebags blowing me up because apparently Allah also hates marathons.
Can it possibly get worse?
I have until 1am before the block is lo
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I tried that, but the race organizers didn't take kindly to me trying to shoot the runners with tranquilizer darts.
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"Paralyzed son"? See, I knew marathons were dangerous.
2025 is much more likely. (Score:5, Interesting)
(One of my prouder nerd moments was when I came up with the idea of a better, more humane mouse dynamometer and had a prototype built later that evening. Researchers now use my design, instead of forcing the modified mice to run to the point of exhaustion on an inclined treadmill with a motivational electrical shock grid at the back.)
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Off topic, but do you have a link to more info about your dynamometer? IAA biologist interested in measuring mouse activity and exercise capacity. Many people still use those treadmills, which seem less than deal to me (for multiple reasons).
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So now when she says to you 'you miserable snake', she might well be correct?
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One of my prouder nerd moments was when I came up with the idea of a better, more humane mouse dynamometer and had a prototype built later that evening
did you by any chance hook a motor/generator up to a rodent wheel? it has been documented that mice will run on wheels even in the wild, if provided with one [sciencemag.org], which I'm sure you know but not linking would have been lazy
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What will it take? (Score:2)
About two hours. Duh.
Everyone knows what it takes (Score:2)
seeking in a subway ride (Score:2)
seeking in a subway ride can cut down the time by a lot
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"Bill Hicks: Remember Jim Fix, that health-nut who died while jogging? Used to write BOOKS about joggingwhat do you jot down about jogging? “Left foot, right foot, hemorrhage."
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"Bill Hicks: Remember Jim Fix, that health-nut who died while jogging? Used to write BOOKS about joggingwhat do you jot down about jogging? “Left foot, right foot, hemorrhage."
Remember Bill Hicks, that comedian who made fun of Jim Fix, the health-nut with a heart condition who died at the age of 52? Used to smoke, drink to excess, and make fun of people who took care of themselves? Died of cancer at the age of 32.
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Fixx's father died of a heart attack at 43, so Jim lasted 9 years longer. He had a congenitally enlarged heart, and (according to Ken Cooper) made the critical mistake of failing to warm down gradually after a hard run in hot weather - indeed, tired as he must have been after a hard journey, going for the run was foolhardy.
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Bill died from cancer of the pancreas that spread to his liver, pancreatic cancer is strongly associated with smoking, true, but 80% of victims are above the age of 60, note: What Causes Pancreatic Cancer? [jhu.edu] Perhaps he just drew a bad set of cards, a bit of irony which would be very apropos.
His routine contrasting the fates of Fixx and Yul Brynner is, hands down, the funniest bit of stand up comedy I've ever heard.
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Kenya or Ethiopia. Every human being to ever run less than 2:05 is from one of those countries.
Not true. Ryan Hall (a USian) ran 2:04:58. Even though we got halfway there in the last 17 years, it's important to consider that there has been a massive movement of focus from 10k to the marathon for many athletes during that time due to increased money only in the marathon, and in 1998 the marathon record was slightly soft compared with the track events. Also let's not forget that the rate of improvement will slow down as times get faster, otherwise we'll run the race in zero seconds somewhere before the
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I have to wonder how much of an effect shoe and sport wear design (wicking fabrics, etc.) have been in the time reduction over the last couple of decades.
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Weight is not the only factor, have you compared the overall design of a running shoe from the 1990's vs current ones? I am not saying this is the only effect, but over the course of a long run everything adds up, including anti fatigue cushioning.....
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"Not true. Ryan Hall (a USian) ran 2:04:58".
Well, sorta-kinda. With a strong following wind on a one-way course, hence not allowable as a record (for instance). But a terrific run nonetheless.
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Saskatoon in November would be the optimal location. The runners would not necessarily be from Canada.
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Could the route be just a straight line course with the wind? Pretty easy to do here.
No. As others have noted, the straight line distance between start point and end point of the race can't be greater than 50% of the total race distance.
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What's with the made up numbers? BC is about 65% Caucasian, 25% Asian and South Asian, 5% Aboriginal. Black Africans are less than 1% here.
Re:Some physiologists (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, whoever does finally break two hours is going to be an outlier on all of the charts, so looking at averages of statistical samples isn't going to help.
For example in my own case: I'm 49 and I ran 2:57 this year, which puts me in the top 2.5% overall and 1% for my age. For me to run my best I need a day temperature of around 60F so I'm way off that particular chart.
I also disagree with the idea that a flat course is necessarily the fastest. Of course you don't want mountains, but some small changes of gradient can allow changes in muscle usage leading to reduction of fatigue. I've run both Hamburg and Berlin several times; I find the slightly more undulating Hamburg to be noticably easier than Berlin.
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Alan Turing ran 2;46:03 in 1948, nearly qualifying for the British Olympic team. While at Cambridge he used to run to Ely and back, and it is said that he once ran from Bletchley Park to a meeting in Whitehall - and back again after. (History doesn't record what the besuited civil servants made of the brilliant boffin sitting at table with them in his sweat-soaked running clothes).
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then tell me that it took three days.
I've heard every joke,
I've heard every one you say.
You think there's not a lot goin' on
but look closer, baby, you're so wrong.
And that's why you can stay so long
when there's not a lot goin' on.
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I don't know the same things you don't know.
I don't know... I just, don't know.
It's a great big place
full of nothin' but space,
and it's my happy place!
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Polar bears.
Now get running. Or else.
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Spoken like a true dickless and brainless AC.
What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon? (Score:5, Funny)
About 2 hours
Not so fast... (Score:2)
A really fast guy is Usain Bolt. For a marathon you need someone who can keep up a medium speed for 2 hours.
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So, I take it you're in favor of doping because that's an individual, intrinsic activity.
Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Biology is inherently unfair. The Kenyans who keep setting these records have a genetic advantage (they are from a particular tribe), and males have such an advantage over females in many sports that natural females whose unaltered bodies hypersecrete testosterone are forced to undergo surgery/hormone therapy in order to become "female enough" to be allowed to compete. Yes, forcing
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you have clearly never run a marathon. yes, using rabbits is a somewhat controversial issue but it is non the less impressive.
a sub 2hr marathon is crazy fast. to make this happen will require every angle, every subtle increase you can possibly imagine.
run one, maybe two marathons and then you can talk about what is lame.
not to mention running is and has always been a numbers game.
read any running literature and you see runners are always running against the clock. Once a Runner (widely considered the b
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It was nice of you to completely ignore the argument for "mental toughness" AKA "I had my penis mutilated as a grown-ass man and would have lost everything had I shown any sign of discomfort during the process".
If you've never competed in seri
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amateur high school kids who are raised in a culture which, from birth, will punish them for outwardly showing any sign of weakness or intolerance for pain.
Do you understand just how severe their passage-to-adulthood rituals are?
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I wonder when the sequencing data for these guys will show up. You know they've done it....
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That isn't running.
*What* "isn't running"?!