More Details About Mars Mystery Rock 180
First time accepted submitter GPS Pilot writes "Previous reports said the rock that suddenly appeared out of nowhere was merely 'the size of a jelly doughnut.' Now, a color image shows additional reasons for this metaphor: 'It's white around the outside, in the middle there's kind of a low spot that's dark red,' said lead scientist Steve Squyres. In the image, the object does stick out like a sore thumb amidst the surrounding orange rocks and soil. Its composition is 'like nothing we've ever seen before. It's very high in sulfur, it's very high in magnesium, it's got twice as much manganese as we've ever seen in anything on Mars.'"
It's Aliens! (Score:3, Funny)
.... See subject. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
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Re:It's Aliens! (Score:5, Insightful)
The experts think the rock was "Tiddleywinked" by the rover's own wheels while turning or maneuvering on the ground.
One possible location where it might have come from is also pretty obvious when you get wider field photographs than the sensational press like so publish.
For instance, Compare this is a wider field shot of the ares BEFORE the appearance:
Pic 1: http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3528/1P441385599EFFCADPP2385R1M1.JPG [nasa.gov]
To a wider shot of the area AFTER the appearance.
Pic 2: http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/3540/1P442453328EFFCAEFP2594R1M1.JPG [nasa.gov]
Notice that scuff mark in the lower left corner of the Pic 2, and find the same location in
Pic 1. (Its diagonally down and to the right of the "bald eagle head shot" in Pic 1.)
A little trench has been exposed, dirt turned over and some material is missing. A rock is clearly missing from this hole.
Could the rock have been un-Marsed from this hole by a wheel, and thrown that far, landing it upside down such that we see an un-weathered surface? Not saying for sure this is where it came from, (hole looks a little small), but a simple widefield view will probably reveal similar candidate sources.
I Hope JPL holds off on releasing any new imagery until the conspiracy nut jobs work their way into a screaming lather. The deflation is so much more fun that way,
Re:It's Aliens! (Score:5, Informative)
By the way, to get a better size perspective of the rock, check out this show from the front Hazcam:
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/f/3540/1F442454318EFFCAEOP1214L0M1.JPG [nasa.gov]
You can easily see that this object could have been tossed by the wheels when you see the size comparison to the wheels.
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By the way, to get a better size perspective of the rock, check out this show from the front Hazcam:
http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/f/3540/1F442454318EFFCAEOP1214L0M1.JPG [nasa.gov]
You can easily see that this object could have been tossed by the wheels when you see the size comparison to the wheels.
All I can see in that picture is a shadow of and armless Johnny Five [google.com] from Short Circuit. How did he get on Mars, what happened to his arms, and why is he screwing with Opportunity?
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Dry ice pop rocks (Score:3)
A bit of dry ice forms in a crack in a stone and stays below freezing for a day or a million years before a rover tyre moves some soil and exposes it to the heat of the sun. The dry ice sublimates but instead of earth water's slow process of expanding and cracking a rock, sublimated dry ice occasionally pops a rock shard quite a long distance. Like pop-rocks.
Pop rock manufacture (from Wikipedia): The candy is made by mixing its ingredients and heating them until they melt into a syrup, then exposing the mix
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Agreed. All reasonable assumptions.
One of the linked articles suggests they have analized the make up of the rock and find it quite different from the surrounding rocks, so some weight is given to the theory that it maybe it bounced in from impact, maybe miles away.
Re:It's Aliens! (Score:5, Funny)
One of the linked articles suggests they have analized the make up of the rock
Typical Humans. Landed less than five minutes ago and already we're molesting the locals.
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Entirely possible, and its the leading alternate theory.
If that proves true, its firggin lucky the rover had moved away and then returned, because it would have been in the way, based on its position, the scuff position and the final resting place.
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It may have been dropped by the Intergalactic Police when they checked up on the rover. Now we just have to keep a look out for Baby Fark McGee-zax. I hope we don't fail the test!
Re:It's Aliens! (Score:5, Funny)
It's obviously the Illudium Q-36 space modulator.
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ROCK LOBSTER! (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe it's not a rock...
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So you're going with Horta then?
"Dammit Jim, I'm a DOCTOR, not a stone mason!"
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"No Kill I!"
Fuel for the improbability drive (Score:2)
Dr. Squyres said the object is "like nothing we've ever seen before."
The Mars rovers have examined thousands of rocks. If this were just some random rock kicked into position by one of the rover's wheels, it's highly improbable that it would also be "like nothing we've ever seen before."
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That's because it's not a rock. It's poop, from a rock creature similar to the one Capt. Kirk fired his phaser on (can't remember which episode it was)
Re:Fuel for the improbability drive (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't think I can stand to watch Trek again until we get someone running the show who promises public flogging for any writer suggesting a time-travel plot.
Re:Fuel for the improbability drive (Score:4, Funny)
Not to mention the Warp Drive, the least reliable propulsion system in history, and the nut job that compensated for that by adding a holo deck.
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The warp drive was a freakin' Honda/Timex/Maytag compared to the travesty that is the transporter system.
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To be fair, the transporter was a legitimate compromise on the special effects budget (showing shuttle flights was prohibitively expensive), not lazy writing.
And the "Star Trek transporter" has become quite a useful discussion point in the philosophy of identity.
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Yeah, I've seen Stargate too.
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[haven't commented on
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But is it not a rock, or at a minimum, 'like a rock'?
Be careful there. Chevy will slap you with a copyright suit and impound your rover.
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Made by God
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So ... those scoop arms on the Viking landers, and the Phoenix lander didn't turn over any Martian rocks? Not one? And not one overturned rock in the miles of tracks left by Pathfinder, Spirit (with it's dragging wheel), Opportunity Curiosity?
Incredible! (Literally, not figuratively.)
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Another bad assumption (Score:3)
Almost everyone has assumed that if aliens ever show up that it would be a big show: "We come in peace. Take us to your leader" Or, if not that, then something like, "We've been here watching for decades | hundreds | thousands of years." I don't think anyone ever considers it possible that an alien presence would be revealed by a prank to be followed by the intergalactic equivalent of Nelson's "Ha ha! [youtube.com]" or "You guys are a hoot! You're our favorite 4D TV show!" Well, it beats being eaten.
Occam's (Score:3)
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The Unmanned Space Flight forums have some better images than most you'll see on the standard snews sites. There are at least two rocks and some sand that has appeared in the image. That's on the uphill side of the rover, it's likely that this stuff rolled down the hill. What started it rolling is unknown, of course.
Re:Occam's (Score:5, Informative)
Link directly to the image. [unmannedspaceflight.com]
And to the forum thread. [unmannedspaceflight.com]
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They're rocks that weren't there the day before, **that's** what the hullabaloo is a about. It's not like Earth, where stuff is moving around all the time and a rabbit or squirrel could just randomly kick it into view. They have no idea how they got there, it's a shock that they saw anything move, much less a rock this big, ore for that matter two of them.
What was your history like? (Score:2)
After we killed off the last Zebranky we faced an interesting dilemma.
Should we proceed, and establish a culture which would advance in art, technology and social sophistication?...
Well, we DID go back into the forest.
We stayed there for ab
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http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7708&st=345
These are some picture posted there:
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=31925
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=31954
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Wow that picture looks a lot more like a meteorite than I expected. I am not sure about the crater ejecta theory but it might well be a rock which hit the ground at terminal velocity and bounced off the rover. Objects like the rover would tend to accumulate little objects like stones around them becuse they get in the way of bouncing objects. This happens a lot on the moon where big rocks have little scree sloped of debris around them.
No razor here (Score:2)
If you look at numerous images, you can tell what happened with basic physics. Before the "magic" rock shows up, there is an image of a small protrusion which is a bit pointy, let us call it "horn" shaped for ease in dialogue. You can also see after the "magic" rock hows up, this point is moved from it's original location and is facing a different direction. So the "horn" shaped rock could have tiddly winked the bigger rock we are calling the magical "jelly donut" or it could have been part of the same r
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Sometimes a rock is just a rock, could had ended there because winds, a chain reaction caused by the rover, even a small asteroid hitting the planet and spreading pebbles around is easier to happen than life forms moving it.
The one thing it couldn't be is wind -- air is far too thin. Dust moves, but even in massive wind, bigger rocks wont.
Storms (Score:3)
With 1/3 the gravity of Earth I can see typical 80 mph winds carrying something as small as a doughnut
NASA says Mars' wind can't move rocks (Score:5, Informative)
The wind on Mars is not "strong" enough to move rocks on the surface. Even though winds on Mars can probably reach large speeds, the atmospheric density is so low, that the force the wind can impose on a rock is quite small. For instance, a wind of 10 meters per second (about 20 miles per hour) here on Earth produces a force which is four times stronger than does a 50 meter per second wind (a bit more than 100 miles per hour) on the surface of Mars. So, since a 20 mile per hour wind here on Earth does not generally move rocks about on the surface (though it does raise dust), the winds on Mars don't move rocks on the surface either.
Jim Murphy
Mars Pathfinder ASI/MET Science Team
Source: http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/mars/ask/atmosphere/Feel_of_Wind_on_Mars.txt [nasa.gov]
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but that low atmospheric density means that tens of tons of rocks from space every 24 hours don't burn up before striking the ground as the hundred tons per day on earth do (Mars is smaller target)
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Agreed, but in others cases there would also be the factors of rock density and Mars gravity to take into account.
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Probably not rocks of this size, but there is plenty of evidence that mars winds can move a lot of material.
http://redplanet.asu.edu/?p=24... [asu.edu]
There are some hellatious dust storms on mars, some of nearly planet covering size.
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A fun experiment can be done in the flight simulator X-Plane. It can simulate flying in the Martian enviornment. I haven't messed around with it, but from what I hear you need to get going about 600 kts in an airplane with giant wings that put the U2 to shame just to get off the ground.
Physics is a bitch... Change 1 tiny thing like pressure and it screws with everything else!
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Mmmm. Doughnut storms. Sounds delicious.
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Mmmm, donuts....
http://25.media.tumblr.com/2af1ea7f8691347c2ba9c036275c9f75/tumblr_mgv1euZeBW1s32n64o1_500.png [tumblr.com]
Re: Storms (Score:4, Informative)
The Martian atmosphere is about 0.6kPa, compared to Earth's 101kPa. It's just not dense enough to move anything more substantial than dust.
damn. (Score:2)
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Goddammit Marvin, put the Illudium Q-36 away... they're onto us.
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Anyone Know... (Score:2)
How much magnesium/manganeese is in the metal the skycrane/parachute that delivered curiousity to mars was made out of?
Can't be Curiosity debris (Score:2)
How much magnesium/manganeese is in the metal the skycrane/parachute that delivered curiousity to mars
Doesn't matter, because the Curiosity rover, and the Opportunity rover that discovered this object, are on opposite sides of the planet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_rover#Image_map_of_Mars_landings [wikipedia.org]
Also, Opportunity has traveled 24 miles from its landing site. http://marsrover.nasa.gov/mission/status_opportunityAll.html [nasa.gov]
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I suppose there could be bits of the bus and heat shield of Opportunity lying around the place, but that doesn't explain the sudden appearance. My other thought is that this is a bit of crud which the rover picked up during the landing and dropped during a manoevour. We have pictures of the top deck of the rover, but they can't show the whole vehicle.
Moving rock (Score:3)
So this rock moved when we weren't looking at it... Do you realize what this means? It's a Weeping Angel! Get that rover out of there now! (But don't look away. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead.)
Re:Moving rock (Score:5, Funny)
Martian cop ... (Score:2)
Michael Valentine Smith (Score:2)
Just Michael Valentine Smith throwing rocks at the rover.
Cheers,
Dave
Boy-racers at NASA (Score:2)
Oh come on... we all know that the mission controllers got bored and told the rover to do a few donuts when nobody was looking!
Hell, you're hundreds of millions of miles from home -- there are no police -- who's going to give you a ticket for a bit of "sustained loss of traction" in the company's rover? :-)
Then.... bugger! Forgot about the camera! Duh!
Obvious (Score:2)
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How about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O... [wikipedia.org]
Take with a grain of salt (Score:2)
fix the controversy (Score:2)
The only way to be absolutely sure that the rock was "flipped" by the wheel, is to run it over again (and again, and again) and see where it goes. I personally don't think it's likely. So it's either the result of vulcanism, or it's a meteor.
There are other rocks also (Score:3, Insightful)
If you look in the photo provided by CNN in the article, look at the rock which casts a shadow near the top left corner of the photo.
That same rock is there in the newer photo with the donut-rock. Now, just look down a little bit and slight right you will see a darker spot that wasn't that dark in the earlier picture and it appears to cast a shadow. Therefore, there are more rocks (at least two) that weren't there before.
It followed me home! (Score:2)
"Mom, the Mars Rover followed me home. Can I keep it?" asks the Martian kid while offering a jelly donut to the machine.
Comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
It was a janitor (Score:5, Funny)
It's probably fluffy and crystaline. (Score:2)
I do a lot of brickwork in my damp basement, and Efflorescence was the first thing that came to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E... [wikipedia.org] .
a suitably "fluffy" pic
http://www.retrofittingcalifor... [retrofitti...fornia.com]
Saw that movie in the 60s... (Score:2)
Doughnut throw (Score:2)
Man, that Lard Lad. . . one helluva throwing arm.
Looks like a Shroom (Score:2)
Blake 7 (Score:2)
Everyone keeps mentioning Star Trek, I'm disappointed no-one has mentioned the telepathic rocks from Blake 7 who could move to follow the sun.
Now all we need to do is find a telepath and get them to Mars to ask the rock what it wants.
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If any of your endeavors involve a 54.6 million km journey through space I'm sure you'll get your share of free marketing too.
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That's easy. Just do them on another planet and you'll get all the publicity that you could ever want!
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water on mars is not boring, nor would the discovery of microbal life
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follow on missions are planned to look for that
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that eventually our existence as a species will depend upon having colonies there
wrong.
the most inhospitable places on earth are like paradise compared to mars. conditions on earth would need to get much, much worse before we'd break even. the root of our problem here is scarce resources. that's not going to magically go away on mars. it's going to be much, much worse. growing food? can't just walk outside and plant something. you have to find water, that's frozen under the surface, thaw it, and pipe it to the sealed, heated, and completely environmentally controlled habitat. even the s
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if you meant mars, because it'd be a learning experience, then yes.
if you meant mars because it might be more hospitable than a future earth, then no. earth could be hit by a big rock and would still be far more hospitable than mars.
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I dunno, Mars [space.com] was pretty balmy compared to Chicago [dnainfo.com] the other day...
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That's hilarious. Post was downmodded because I mentioned the 19th century Mormon's habit of stealing everything not nailed down, in accordance with their Doctrine of the Consecration of Goods.
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The folks at NASA are remotely controlling a roving "SUV" on a planet millions of miles away from us in a scientific effort to learn more about the Universe and our surroundings. Does this impact day-to-day life *right now*? No, of course not. Is it incredibly cool and deserve a spot on Slashdot's home page? Definitely. Are your endeavors even close to this scale of technological achievement? (I'll be the first to admit that my own endeavors, while important to me, don't rise to the level of technical
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In fairness, people got almost as excited by a tunnel boring machine in Seattle hitting a forgotten pipe.
From religion to aliens to ghost-hunters, people just want to find something that suggests that, in this mind-bogglingly large universe, our species doesn't count as the sole intel
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If only I could get that kind of free marketing for my own endeavors.
Once you are capable of sending robots to mars, we can talk.
Re: Definitely (Score:2, Insightful)
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Wind on Mars is not believed to be strong enough to move a rock of that size. The atmosphere of mars has a low density and wind speeds strong enough to move large rocks have not been recorded.
The water in that guy's pressure suit was not a mystery. The cooling system of the suit uses water to move heat around, much like the cooling system of a car. When you spring a leak, you get wet.