Chang'e-3 Lunar Rover Landing Slated For 13:40 UTC Saturday 90
savuporo writes "The Chinese Chang'e-3 probe will be landing on the moon [Saturday], 13:40 UTC. CCTV is likely to carry the event live as they did for initial launch. According to technical overview of the mission scenario and instruments, the landing will be fully autonomous with active landing hazard avoidance, which is the first time this has been attempted on any planetary landing. More real-time updates can be found on Twitter with ChangE3 hash tag and NASASpaceFlight forums live event section."
Re:Place your bets... (Score:5, Insightful)
Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.
I hoping them the best, sry.
My hope (Score:2)
Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.
I hoping them the best, sry.
I hope that the fruit of human space exploration would be share to all countries in the world.
It makes no sense to play politics in space.
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It makes no sense to play politics in space.
Sure it does. Politics is played on many levels.
For an analogy, use deep ocean sailing. Historically, it has been difficult and dangerous. To the point where even avowed enemies would help each other out in times of distress (and sometimes during periods of simply sovereign state competition). One day the other guy may be helping tow your vessel off some rocks, the next week they are shooting at you. Humans and weird and complex. Politics always follows human endeavors. In some cases, it precedes it.
Sad, but so often true; politics is everywhere (Score:4, Insightful)
Great example; the same is true of people living in harsh climates like snowy areas -- or even, like on slashdot of people giving each other technological advice yet probably working in competing companies. One might even see that in a marriage -- with spouses working together when a child is sick yet also squabbling over housework... Life is at the interface of fire and ice, meshwork and hierarchy, competition and cooperation...
Politics is a process of resource allocation by discussion (backed ultimately by violence and also gift-giving or its withdrawal), as opposed to, say, mainstream US capitalist/consumer economics which is about resource allocation by moving the digital equivalent of pieces of artificially-scarce green paper around (within a larger US political context, as above backed by violence and gift-giving or its withdrawal). Yet, there is no reasons those communications and currencies could not be emails and IRC chats and bug tracker pstings, like coordinates much of Debian GNU/Linux.
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/04/14/1349202/study-reports-on-debian-governance-social-organization [slashdot.org]
So, it is not unreasonable to say that wherever human go, they will take some aspects of all that along. My father travelled the world as a merchant marine sailor for about twenty years, and one of his favorite sayings was a variation on "wherever you go, you take yourself along".
Yet. I think there is a deeper issue like mentioned in my sig. China has demonstrated new technologies of abundance by putting a robot on the moon powered by solar and nuclear technologies. Those technologies could produce physical abundance for all by today's standards -- even for trillions of people via self-replicating space habitats. That is a new truth. It can be a new truth even if probably humans may always find things to squabble about, like two kids in a room filled with toys can fight over the same one for whatever reasons of the moment.
Yet, such new technologies in a way make the world a smaller place, like the how the US space program to put a man on the moon in the 1960s was seen in US government as only justified in getting lots of funding in order to show the USSR that the USA was capable of landing a nuclear missile on Red Square. So many technologies can make the world smaller and smaller relative to our capacity to use such technologies to cause harm, like I write about here:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html [pdfernhout.net]
"There is a fundamental mismatch between 21st century reality and 20th century security thinking. Those "security" agencies are using those tools of abundance, cooperation, and sharing mainly from a mindset of scarcity, competition, and secrecy. Given the power of 21st century technology as an amplifier (including as weapons of mass destruction), a scarcity-based approach to using such technology ultimately is just making us all insecure. Such powerful technologies of abundance, designed, organized, and used from a mindset of scarcity could well ironically doom us all whether through military robots, nukes, plagues, propaganda, or whatever else... Or alternatively, as Bucky Fuller and others have suggested, we could use such technologies to build a world that is abundant and secure for all."
We may always have competition between people for various reasons (the mating dance?), yet our society can still figure out ways to structure that competition in healthier ways.
"No contest: the case against competition"
http://www.shareintl.org/archives/cooperation/co_nocontest.htm [shareintl.org]
----
"We need competition in order to survive."
"Life is boring without competition."
"It is competition that gives us meaning in life."
These word
Landing is a success ! (Score:1)
Was watching the live streaming.
Landing is a success !!
Congratulation !!!!!
Yes, congrats!!!! (Score:2)
They are unfolding the solar panel now...
Comments by me on how China's government is led now by engineers vs. US led now by lawyers: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4550453&cid=45688539 [slashdot.org]
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You're of course 100% correct in asking for a more healthy mix in the government leadership lineup.
It's not that I've given up, but the status quo that makes up who's who list of the government of the United States of America is way too entrenched.
The revelation from Edward Snowden's files is an excellent indication that the status quo has become so arrogant that no one, not even us, the citizens of the United States, can do anything about it.
They have control over everything - from police to military to co
The Optimism of Uncertainty by Howard Zinn (Score:2, Interesting)
On holding onto optimism about change: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1108-21.htm [commondreams.org]
"In this awful world where the efforts of caring people often pale in comparison to what is done by those who have power, how do I manage to stay involved and seemingly happy? I am totally confident not that the world will get better, but that we should not give up the game before all the cards have been played. The metaphor is deliberate; life is a gamble. Not to play is to foreclose any chance of winning.
T
The threat of a good example (Score:2)
"The greatest threat to power is not violence but disengagement [from the grid network]."
Interesting point, AC. It relates to this, also by Howard Zinn:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncomrev24.html [historyisaweapon.com]
"However, the unexpected victories-even temporary ones-of insurgents show the vulnerability of the supposedly powerful. In a highly developed society, the Establishment cannot survive without the obedience and loyalty of millions of people who are given small rewards to keep the system going: the soldi
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Yeah, right. Curiosity was dragged up to Mars by lawyers (if only).
The ONLY major issue with NASA is the limited (and bizarre) funding issues. There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce. These pale in the face of the minimalist funding that is mostly pork barrel entitlements.
China has those problems too ! (Score:4, Interesting)
There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce.
I may be an American citizen but I came from China. I still keep track of what's going on inside China.
From what I know, all the problems that you've outlined above China also got them.
Bureaucracy
You just couldn't imagine how bureaucratic the Chinese system is
Risk Aversion
Do you know why China's space program schedule is limited to one-spaceship every year ?
You guess it, risk aversion
Aging workforce
All the leading scientists in Chinese space programs are in their 60's, and older. That is because China practically lost an entire generation of scientist due to the social upheaval during the 1950's to the 1970's.
Yes, a new generation of young scientists are growing up, but they are still seriously lacking in practical experiences.
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There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce.
I may be an American citizen but I came from China. I still keep track of what's going on inside China.
From what I know, all the problems that you've outlined above China also got them.
Bureaucracy You just couldn't imagine how bureaucratic the Chinese system is
Risk Aversion Do you know why China's space program schedule is limited to one-spaceship every year ?
You guess it, risk aversion
Aging workforce All the leading scientists in Chinese space programs are in their 60's, and older. That is because China practically lost an entire generation of scientist due to the social upheaval during the 1950's to the 1970's.
Yes, a new generation of young scientists are growing up, but they are still seriously lacking in practical experiences.
If you want to find fault in something, you'll always find something. If you want to find positives in something, you'll also always find something. All your post says is that you really wanted to believe that there are problems with the Chinese scientific institutions for whatever your own reasons*.
Just let it go. Enjoy the achievement and whatever comes off it. We're all a little better off, however little from the success.
Unless you have done extensive statistical analysis of the Chinese scientific i
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Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.
I hoping them the best, sry.
It is not enough to read manuals on Chinglish language, now rover have a Chinglish name too :-/
Racist dick (Score:2, Insightful)
You sir, are a racist dick.
Let me guess, you are American and know that only Americans can build space vechicles right?
Remember that time that NASA totally fucked up a Mars probe because they were too stupid to use metric?
Remember that time that NASA fucked up the Hubble telescope because they were too stupid to make sure the optics were correct before shooting into space? Geez, seems like all NASA does is fuck things up!
Of course, I know it is not true that they only fuck things up, but I am making a point
Don't get so angry, man ! (Score:1)
You sir, are a racist dick
I came from China, I am an ethnic Chinese, and I am an American (naturalized citizen).
Sir, please calm down. Don't get too work up.
I am happy that the lander landed successfully - not because of I'm a Chinese but because this landing marks another milestone for human space exploration.
Have a good day !
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1) "Chinese" is a NATIONALITY.
Excuse me.
The word "Chinese" is never mean to be a "nationality".
I am an American by nationality but I am still a Chinese. I was born in China, grew up in China until my teens before I went to America.
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on the other hand, if they are successful, then maybe, just maybe, the US will get off it's arse and send something interesting.
Lunar Lander (Score:2)
Become part of the action :)
http://moonlander.seb.ly/ [moonlander.seb.ly]
The moon is a planet? (Score:1)
"the first time this has been attempted on any planetary landing." The moon is a planet? When did that happen?
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It ate Pluto's heart to gain its powers when the IAU downgraded Pluto.
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Fake? (Score:2)
So will people claim this moon landing is fake too?
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So will people claim this moon landing is fake too?
Only if they had an astronaut or two get out and walk around.
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Yes. :( Hopefully, China's and future moon landings will prove them wrong!
Steaming video link (Score:5, Informative)
Informative, thanks -- Re:Steaming video link (Score:2)
Pretty amazing to see such technological ability spreading around the world -- India going to Mars, and China going to the Moon. I can hope the dream of space settlement will grow in those and other countries and we will see space habitats eventually.
Maybe China will be the first to realize the ideas described in this Carter-era study?
"Advanced Automation for Space Missions"
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ [islandone.org]
And to see Mexicans win awards simulating it! (Score:2)
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/one-giant-leap-kerbalkind-spaceflight-sim-wins-geek-gift-award-2D11741994 [nbcnews.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerbal_Space_Program [wikipedia.org]
https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/contact.php [kerbalspaceprogram.com]
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An historical analogy is deep ocean sailing. It was pioneered by several different societies over several thousand years. There were numerous starts and stops as the technology improved and as the business case became clearer (no money, no mission, even for the religious guys). The Portuguese (Magellan) punched the Europe to Pacific routes out but could not hold onto any sort of monopoly for several reasons. The oceans are huge, Portugal went into an economic decline just about the time Magellan was sin
Historical context (Score:3)
Good points with the historical analogy to ocean-going explorations and later commerce. CCTV was talking about the implications of the China landing as I started to write this, and putting it into the context of past efforts by other countries like the USA and USSR. But they are making a big point about how nothing much has landed for 37 years that could do local experimented and take local high-definition images,,,
They are just ending their live coverage it seems...Nice to see a recap of the landing video
Mod Up Parent (Score:1)
Live coverage there has ended (Score:2)
They are on to other stuff there now after finishing the live coverage (which was great to listen to)... They seem to be planning to have updates and further discussion during the day though...
One thing I found confusing in the coverage was distinguishing between what were live images and what were simulations... I did not know if some of the images were coming from perhaps other lunar satellites with cameras focused on the landing probe? Or if they were simulations or infographics tracking real positions?
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The budgets NASA is receiving is an order of magnitude bigger than anything Chinese are spending on their space programs. In fact, NASA budget still eclipses every other national civil space budget combined. 17 billion dollars is a lot of dough.
Good luck! (Score:2)
We're all counting on you.
Success! (Score:1)
successful landing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:successful landing (Score:5, Informative)
Solar panels are opening, everything going well!
Live feed [english.cntv.cn]
Install what? (Score:2)
To watch the live feed I'm being asked to install CNTVLive2 plugi
http:/// [http] player . cntv . cn /flashplayer/config/plugins/npCNTVLive2_Linux_64.xpi
I think not.
There seems to be a custom compression algorithm used for
http://player.cntv.cn/flashplayer/logo/Loading.swf?v=2012.11.28.1&v=0.3890230686354875la [player.cntv.cn]
mplayer/xine/vlc don't like it.
In Firefox and Chromium it shows a loading page but stops at 80-something percent.
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Successfully landed (Score:5, Informative)
The Rabbit has Landed (Score:2)
Congratulations
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Nitpicking: there is a slight difference between UTC and GMT.
However it is indeed a shame that your parent either does not know what UTC is or in what/which time zone he is living.
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Mainly yes, but I would not bet on leap seconds and other time issues. Time is tricky (as a software engineer, I usually have all manuals open all the time when I have to deal with time, you forget to easy to often some detail).
Mission Priority #1 (Score:1)
Re: Mission Priority #1 (Score:2)
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From what I have read, the American flags are completely white now due to the intense UV.
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They intentionally landed quite a long way from any of the Apollo sites, in case something went wrong during descent. They didn't want to effectively bomb one of those sites, even by accident.
It remains to be seen what the longevity of the rover will be. It is solar powered, so if they're patient and it was constructed very very well to keep the lunar dust out of moving parts, in theory they could drive that far. They would set a roving distance record if they did. Possibly a very LONG record, since the
The Chinese plan (Score:1)
It remains to be seen what the longevity of the rover will be
The rover is supposed to last for only 3 months. The lander, 1 year.
The Chinese are not planning on having a long-lasting Curiosity-type rover on the moon, for they will send another one up there pretty soon (in 2 years, or so) and then another one (to take samples back to earth) and after that they may start sending Taikonauts (Chinese Astronauts) to the moon and may even build a moon base (or two, or three, or more).
That's their plan anyway.