Property Managers Use DNA To Sniff Out Dog Poop Offenders 234
Nerval's Lobster writes "News changes during holidays. It gets thinner and lighter and weirder as the hordes of writers and editors who produce the overwhelming flood of news, updates and infotainments go home to annoy friends and family rather than readers and advertisers. Top points in ridiculousness, however, go to the condo- and apartment-complex managers in Braintree, MA, who were inspired to become amateur zoo-geneticists by resident pet owners who not only refused to clean up after their pets, but challenged the apartment managers to prove it was their pets contributing the increasingly hazardous, unpleasant piles of doggie doo on apartment properties. Rather than put up with a neverending supply of potential EcoBot fuel on marring the landscaping, facilities managers took cheek swabs of all the dogs on the property and sent them to A Knoxville, Tenn. that provided DNA profiles under a program with the dignified name 'PooPrints.' Now, for a fee of only $60 per pooch, residential managers can confirm the provider of a pile of PooPrintable material by comparing the DNA in the dog with the DNA in the pile. 'Now you don't really have to worry about dog poop,' said one fan of the practical application of zoological genetic analysis. 'The grass is now ours again, we don't have to worry about it [poop], and that's a good thing.' Restraint is just as important as innovation, of course, so the building managers made a point of telling the AP reporter who wrote the story that they wouldn't extend the effort to identifying which pooch peed on which bush and when. 'That's a little more difficult. We are not going to tackle that.' Finally, in this holiday season, something to be thankful for." The city of Petah Tikva, Israel started a similar identification program in 2008.
This is why (Score:2, Insightful)
You should own a fucking cat instead.
Re:This is why (Score:4, Funny)
Then all the feces is helpfully contained to your bed and inside your shoes.
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Re:This is why (Score:4, Informative)
If your cat is shitting on your bed and in your shoes then youre doing it wrong.
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Exactly. I bet they're not even preheating the oven.
Truth: I got my dogs a cat of their own. Chewtoy is seven years old now and actually lets you pet it (he was a completely feral kitten). He still ends the petting by biting you.
Re:This is why (Score:5, Funny)
Fucking cats is illegal in most states.
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Hmmm. That’s odd. All States have land grant colleges and all land grant colleges have courses in animal husbandry. So it can’t be a general principal. Do you know that ban cats specifically?
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Fucking cats are illegal in most states
Not true
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Not true
Depends if it is in the process of fucking or owned for the purpose of fucking. In the latter case the legality depends on who or what is going to be fucking it.
PS
Does this qualify as "stuff that matters" or "nwes for nerds"? :)
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You should own a fucking cat instead.
Then you'll end up with litters of kittens.
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You should own a fucking cat instead.
I own a cat, but I got it fixed. I don't want it fucking, you know that female cats in heat meow all the time? It's annoying. More annoying then watching where you are walking, tbh.
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And cats aren't as tasty.
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It's amazing what marinading for 24 hours will do to a meat.
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And cats aren't as tasty.
Well, that's YOUR opinion. -- Alf [imdb.com]
Re:This is why (Score:5, Interesting)
Cats have traditionally played very important roles in pest control --- keeping rodents out of granaries, etc. --- which is how they gained widespread acceptance and favor in human societies. A farm or city with a few semi-domesticated cats around was greatly preferable to swarms of rats. Ancient Egyptian civilization --- the ones who put cats on the level of gods (which status the cats have never forgotten) --- was able to become a powerful empire through large-scale storage and distribution of grain, requiring methods (such as cats) for preventing mass-scale spoilage of food supplies due to vermin infestation.
Re:This is why (Score:4, Informative)
There are reasons --- besides mushy sentimentality --- that people in rural/agricultural communities to this day keep around both cats and dogs. House cats, barn cats, hunting dogs, herding dogs --- these aren't simply pets, but working members of the community. And cats that grow up around dogs can stand their own ground pretty well; there's nothing like watching the baffled terror of an unsuspecting dog who tries picking on a cat which isn't a pussy.
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The last time a society went nuts and removed many of the cats they had. Because they were 'evil'. We got the black plague exploding. Had they not done that. It's pretty likely the black plague never would have gotten as bad as it did.
Until we actually get a handle on rodent populations. Cats serve an important purpose. Even today in our 'modern' society. They keep rodent populations in check.
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Should just git a big ol lovable flemish giant instead. Then it just helps the grass grow.
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Cats let outdoors will also excrete waste products in a comparable distribution
And worse, they
(a) tend to cover the fruits of their labor, so it cannot easily be picked up, and
(b) tend to favour children's sandboxes.
Toxoplasmosis is a real problem.
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Why, I'd never bow down to an inferior animal. That's why I'm a cat person --- I can be certain that my groveling serfdom is in service of a superior species (and they know it).
Of course, you can make the management go crazy. . (Score:5, Funny)
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Or go to the local zoo and pick up some wolf/tiger/lion poo..
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I don't know anything about raising venture capital, but I'm going to do a little more research and try to get on "shark tank" pitching that.
inconsiderate... (Score:4, Insightful)
Inconsiderate is what people are... I know dogs can be picky but come on... You bought the thing. You take care of it. Yet you can not control one bit and walk 3 blocks so your dog can take a crap somewhere?
Yesterday while raking my yard I saw a couple who *waited* for at least 10 mins for me to go inside. So they could let their dog piss on my yard eventually they gave up. Thankfully all the dogs in the neighborhood have killed 100x3ft of my grass. I have tried planting more hardy type grasses (so I do not have to water as much). But nothing survives but weeds. Never mind the 3 empty fields nearby. Least most of my neighbors pick the crap up which is about all the credit I can give them.
Re:inconsiderate... (Score:5, Interesting)
I inadvertently taught my dog to not crap on the lawn. When he was still house training, I always took him off into the tall weeds to do his business - since then, he goes to great lengths to not crap on the lawn. He'll find tall weeds, go off in the woods or crap over an embankment if at all possible. Last week, he had to go and there was only lawn in site, so he made sure to crap on a large rock rather than the grass... made it easier for me to scoop it up.
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+1, Inadvertently Brilliant
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True story.
I taught my small, 20lb dog to not crap in the house, too. We always walk up a hill so he can crap in the field behind the house. He doesn't like to crap on short grass, either.
One day, on vacation in Kansas City, KS, we walked out of the hotel for a morning walk. We walked across the street (near a highway). We walked and walked and he wouldn't do his business. Finally, he semi-squated in front of a small, manucured bush and promptly deposited a turd on top of it.
Triumphantly, I left it there.
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Our dogs should team up to host the First Annual Courteous Pooping Convention, for fine crappers everywhere.
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Why would people intentionally let their dog piss on your grass? It's not like they couldn't piss just about anywhere else is it?
Dog piss is full of nitrogen and that's what makes it kill the grass, so trying hardy types that you have to water less isn't going to help you. You need to water your grass to dilute the nitrogen content of their urine.
FWIW I'm a dog owner and I always pick up their crap. I wish the same could be said for cat owners whose cats shit in garden beds and spend the rest of their time
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>>Why would people intentionally let their dog piss on your grass?
Because some people are selfish, just want to get their dog walk over with, and frankly don't give a shit.
Re:inconsiderate... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yesterday while raking my yard I saw a couple who *waited* for at least 10 mins for me to go inside. So they could let their dog piss on my yard eventually they gave up.
These are the kind of people that motion activated sprinklers were invented for.
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Geez, are people really that uptight about a little dog crap on their yards????
As a dog owner, you may perceive it as "a little dog crap." As a homeowner, I perceive it as "2-3 piles every day," which, if not picked up, will result in dead spots.
Manure may be good fertilizer, if it's allowed to ferment and break up, but a pile of shit is toxic. Likewise, water may be good for your lawn, but acidic, salty urine is toxic.
Re:inconsiderate... (Score:5, Insightful)
Flies man, flies. And it smells like shit.
I keep the dogs of my lawn with a few liberally spread mothballs. Works like a charm, and they are dirt cheap.
And when I feel like being a prick about it, I'll put down chili powder just before dog walking time.
Re:inconsiderate... (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, I can understand if it is a yard where kids play football,etc...
From my experience, that's where people prefer to leave their dog shit because there's nobody there to yell at them.
There's a school near my house with a big field where the kids play. The dog owners in the neighborhood apparently think it's a dog park. Dogs off leash running up to little kids walking to school, dog shit left everywhere... it's a disgusting display of self-centered behavior.
Science, Bitches! (Score:2)
Old News (Score:2)
Treating tenants like criminals (Score:2)
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You are assuming you can find and afford maintenance people who are willing who are willing to quietely clean up poop, are you not? So come on! Put your money where your mouth is and start hiring a bunch or people willing to clean up whatever shit they run in to!
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Wow, what a wonderful way to improve the already adversarial relationship between property managers and tenants.
I agree, it's a total dick move on the part of the lazy fucks who refuse to clean up after their dogs. Just think, if they'd be responsible adults and clean up after their pets, the managers wouldn't need to waste money on DNA testing, a cost which will inevitably be passed along to the other tenants.
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Because a dick measuring contest is the best way to resolve disputes. Everyone is being a dick here. Take the high road, don't be a dick.
I'm guessing by the context that you don't actually know what the phrase "dick measuring contest" means. Recommendation: Look it up so you can stop using it incorrectly (Hint: You can tell a DMC fairly easily - they often start with something akin to "Oh yea? Well...").
No, the people being dicks are the selfish assholes letting their dogs shit on someone else's property, and not cleaning it up. The property owners/managers are doing their jobs, protecting their property, and trying to give the tenants who a
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You've obviously never owned a dog. Sometimes your dog shits twice and you only have one bag. Sometimes you're rushing to work. Sometimes you can't find the shit.
Actually, I've always had dogs; the difference is, I actually take responsibility for my pets, unlike some folks.
Only have one bag? Use it twice. Rushing to work? No excuse for damaging someone else's property. Can't find the shit? Maybe you should be paying attention to your pet instead of finger-fucking your cell phone or whatever else you're distracted by.
Don't be a dick. This (and your) response is that of a psychopath.
That you think my belief that people should take responsibility for themselves (and, by extension, their pets) is the response of a "psychopath" proves
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You've obviously never owned a dog. Sometimes your dog shits twice and you only have one bag. Sometimes you're rushing to work. Sometimes you can't find the shit.
Sometimes they get the runs, and you cannot possibly pick it up, because it's liquid. The best you can do is pour some water on it to dilute it.
But my take on it is that if you don't have a place for the dogs to go, you shouldn't have a dog. Whether that's a designated walk area or your own yard. But your neighbor's lawns or vegetable patches is not acceptable, whether you pick up or not.
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We tried this in our building for years. Problems: It's expensive to have maintenance clean up the dog poop (and the dog owners actually complained about the additional expense) and it's almost impossible to catch them in the act since they only do it when nobody's around. It sucks to have to use doggy DNA, but it sucks more to step in dog shit walking out your front door.
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I lived in NYC for a few years, and was a bit taken aback by how people accept dogs shitting and peeing in the middle of the sidewalk. I assumed people had to "curb" their dog. With the number of dogs in NYC, the shit imprints all over the sidewalk soon cover almost the entire surface and make a kind of shit collage on the sidewalk, interrupted only by little rivers of dog piss. Very nice. At least they are banned from Central Park - that place would become uninhabitable very quickly if the dogs were allowe
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At least they are banned from Central Park - that place would become uninhabitable very quickly if the dogs were allowed in.
If dogs are banned in Central Park, they're doing a poor job of enforcement. I visited in July and at least two families had dogs with them. One of the dogs was even stalking a pigeon on a grassed area.
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Yes, I meant the grassy areas. Dogs abound on the paths, and not all grassy areas are dog-free. In the mornings, you can even let them off of their leashes in certain areas. At some of the neighborhood parks, there are dog exercise areas - even separating the little dogs from the big ones. Depending on your feelings about space scarcity and canines, it is either very nice or a little depressing.
Re:Treating tenants like criminals (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, what a wonderful way to improve the already adversarial relationship between property managers and tenants who are inconsiderate asshats
FTFY.
Really, anyone who can't be bothered to pick up their pets poop from property that isn't theirs is being exactly that.
hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how much it would cost to preemptively create a DNA database of all the dogs so you have a ready-to-go database for matching poop when its found. Then they wouldn't have to rely on humans "reporting" the offenders. Just get the poop, have it analyzed, and fine the owner.
Poop free, at least our sidewalk (Score:5, Informative)
I agree it's ridiculous to have to resort to doggy DNA but it's the only thing that finally forced dog owners in my building in Boston to stop letting their pets poop right in front of the building's door. Nobody wants to navigate a minefield of dog poop to get in or out of their home and it's incredibly frustrating and irritating that your fellow residents don't care enough to clean up after their dog.
What's really ridiculous is that Doggy DNA is necessary.
Re:Poop free, at least our sidewalk (Score:4, Insightful)
If it's at the door wouldn't CCTV on the building be far cheaper and easier?
It'd take what, 5 mins to rewind to the point of spotting it and recognising the resident no?
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What's really ridiculous is that Doggy DNA is necessary.
The kind of person who would lock another person up in an unnatural environment for them for hours while they go make more money to pay for that environment just so someone will be nice to them when they get home is probably an asshole. If they weren't, they wouldn't have to enslave a dog in order to feel good about themselves. And before anyone says yeah but the dog enjoys serving humans, they'd enjoy serving them more in a better environment.
I'm not against people having pets, I'm against people using pet
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What's really ridiculous is that Doggy DNA is necessary.
People have been annoyed by this for ages, the ridiculous part is really that it's not just possible but has gone from ridiculously expensive research to something we use to identify owners who don't pick up their dog poo in a few decades. Many people have now seriously started to question if we should just full sequence everyone (currently $5-6000/person) because the lifetime savings in healthcare (hereditary diseases, genetic risk factors, effectiveness of drugs), medical research (finding genes related t
The ACTUAL article is here: (Score:3)
First world vs third world (Score:2)
I couldn't help thinking about a break-in/home invasion I had about 7 years ago. Seems the perps waited in a patch that had some tall weeds at that time, in the back of my yard, until my lights went out (around midnight) plus 2 hours. I puzzled that together because the next morning while I was waiting for the detective, I did a walkabout and found the cigarette butts, plus some items that where taken from my house and subsequently discarded.
When the detective came, he dusted for some fingerprints (didn't
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You'd be surprised how desperate drug users can be when they need a fix.
Wow (Score:3)
Sounds like they ager getting paid to much... (Score:2)
Time for tennants to start demanding lower rent, if they have so much profit they can screw around doing DNA testing on poop, they can hire someone part time to pick up the poop.
Some of these property managers are as bad as the old farts that police HOA's.
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They are charging the dog owners, both for the initial test and for the forensics work later on.
Cheaper option: security cameras (Score:3)
Why not just put a security camera on the condo poop spaces?
It might help with crime too.
City of Vienna, anyone ? (Score:2)
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Every time I've been forced to not pick up poop, it was because I didn't have a bag, not because I wanted to
I wonder how the movement of various municipalities to ban plastic shopping bags will affect the doggie poop issue. This is possibly the #1 recycling use for these bags.
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This is how you solve these social problems. Seems obvious, but people have to know it's wrong, but more importantly everyone else has to know it's wrong as well. Even if they wouldn't do the right thing on their own, having dozens of disapproving eyes following you along with the occasional vocal critic does wonders. The shaming effect is a pretty powerful social force (unless you're a pop diva).
Neighborhood woman does this to me (Score:2)
There's always a fresh pile in my yard off to the side where she must think it would be less visible to let her dog go. I saw her once, but I was just getting up and didn't have a chance to run down and yell at her. But, the poop is always there. I'd wait for her, but she only walks her dog on my yard once or twice a week. If I had a sprinkler system, I'd rig it to go off the moment she set foot there. Or, maybe beam her dog with something for shock like a rotten egg.
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Yeah, you're right about that
A great, targeted, non-confrontational solution. (Score:2)
I think it's a brilliant way to manage this. I've had so many friends talk about having to deal with dog poop in the halls and stairwells of their condos. If Building management is being non-confrontational about it then I don't really see it as a problem. It quickly identifies the issue and applies the charge where it's due.
From TFA:
Polite reminders, letters and notices previously failed to persuade errant pet owners to observe condo rules requiring them to clean up after their animals, Kansky said. There were problems even after residents reported seeing others failing to pick up their dog's messes.
"We would call or send a letter and that dog owner would say: 'Prove it,'" Kansky said.
Interpretation: Without proof, some pet owners felt entitled to do as they pleased.
Then:
DNA monitoring has yielded immediate and dramatic results in the condominium community of Devon Wood, where maintenance staff previously reported seeing, stepping onto or driving over several piles of droppings each week on its 350-acre property.
Interpretation: WITH proof, (almost ALL) pet owners now clean up as per the condo rules
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There are normal and civil ways to handle these kind of problems
Which are...
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You don't live in a city, do you? That's a very expensive proposition where I live.
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You don't live in a city, do you? That's a very expensive proposition where I live.
There wouldn't be a lawn to poop on either. So you're not speaking of the problem I'm addressing.
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Uh... I don't see how sidewalks vs lawns is a meaningful difference in this case.
Fines issued by police. That would also cover people who let their dogs poop outside of designated areas.
Re:People really need to get a life (Score:5, Insightful)
The normal and civil thing is to pick up after your dog, rather than fouling communal space.
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Naw, we can't do that. That would mean taking personal responsibility and we know that's an evil concept which shall never be mentioned.
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It's a small scale example of tragedy of the commons, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons [wikipedia.org]
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I agree completely. It's amazing to see how many assholes there are in this thread, who think it is the responsibility of everyone but the dog owner.
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Re:Nothing else to do but whine? Try planning ahea (Score:5, Informative)
Dog crap is pretty crappy as fertilizers go (depending on their diet). More often than not, it will harm the grass more than help it.
See http://voices.yahoo.com/common-misconceptions-dog-feces-fertilizing-1285581.html?cat=32 [yahoo.com]
Re:Nothing else to do but whine? Try planning ahea (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, why the heck do you allow animals if you aren't willing to put up with the results of your decision? Charge a fee for animals and pay somebody to come around and clean up the poop, there are services that do that very thing.
Dog poop on the lawn is a result of dogs and not picking up the poop. If the poop is cleaned any less often than continuously; people will step in, fall in, and roll through (with a wheel chair) dog poop. Owners should pick up dog poop from common spaces.
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Re:Nothing else to do but whine? Try planning ahea (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, why the heck do you allow animals if you aren't willing to put up with the results of your decision?
The owners are expected not to allow dog poop to remain where it's dropped. They're the ones failing in their responsbility. Unless the managers are DNA matching dogs to poop for their own amusement (we've all done it), I assume they're doing so in order to take action against the owners and force them to live up to their responsbilities as pet owners. That's hardly "putting up with it."
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Anyway,its nice to have the convenience of letting my dog poop in my own yard.
And apparently you also think it's OK to let your dog poop on a communal yard. Your neighbors probably disagree.
The lawn at my apartment is for all the residents to enjoy, not just the dog owners.
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Its good for the grass anyway, natural fertilizer.
No, it isn't. The problem for the grass is the urine. It kills grass and, since dogs like to piss on each other's piss, it leaves whole patches of dead dirt.
My end-unit townhouse was where the whole neighborhood let their dogs defecate. We paid for a garbage can and little bags so the pet owners wouldn't even risk touching any, yet they still left the feces. Unless someone was watching, of course. My Saturday ritual was shoveling everybody's dog shit into a trash can so the stink wouldn't permeate my
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That's just a stupid rule, as it would ban for example a mint condition Jaguar E-type which looks far nicer than any recent BMW or Mercedes. Even Enzo Ferrari called it "The most beautiful car ever made". The New York City Museum of Modern Art recognised the significance of the E-Type's design in 1996 by adding a blue roadster to its permanent design collection, one of only six automobiles to receive the distinction.
Silly rules and pretty cars (Score:2)
That's just a stupid rule, as it would ban for example a mint condition Jaguar E-type which looks far nicer than any recent BMW or Mercedes. Even Enzo Ferrari called it "The most beautiful car ever made".
Yes it is a very stupid rule. Completely agree on that point. A classic car in good condition like the E-Type should fit in anywhere.
That said, personally I think the Jaguar E-Type is not an especially attractive vehicle and I don't feel its looks have aged particularly well. One of my neighbors had one (a hardtop) a few years back and I could never warm up to the styling. (personally I've never liked Jaguar's styling in general) In fact I feel the exact opposite from you regarding your comparison with
Jeremy, is that you? (Score:2)
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Only really stupid people intentionally live in a HOA.
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It's not the management company that's motivating this, it's the non-pet-owning tenants not wanting to be confrontational about it and demanding that the management "do something".
I doubt they will actually do this for enforcement.. It's an attention grabber instead. Here's why:
1) $60 to do the test is really expensive. A determined malefactor could financially break the system by just "seeding" the grounds with many targets. Targets composed of material from multiple sources. 2) I doubt they're using a collection system with legally enforceable traceability. Heck, law enforcement doesn't always do this right. Joe or Jane Doe groundskeeper sure isn't going to worry about it. 3) I doubt the DNA testing company is willing to certify their test results to the needed level. I have friends who have sent their dog's DNA in multiple times for breed identification and come back with different results (same saliva, same lab, etc.).
The first time an attorney with some spare time on his hands gets a "dog poop ticket", he or she will have a field day. So, Acme DNA labs, can we see your certified accuracy testing? Did you run a blank? How do you calibrate your equipment. The lab will have wisely put in their contract that they won't respond to this, so it's back to the management company and a he said/he said argument.
No management company wants to get in the middle of a tenant/tenant dispute, and they will quickly disengage and let the tenants fight it out among themselves.
Make it part of the leasing contract. If the dog is yours, you pay the test costs plus the fine.This isn't a criminal case, it's civil at best; and the standard is preponderance of evidence, not reasonable doubt. The real issue is how do you identify the actual dog? It's not like you will have a sample of each dog on file, nor will it necessarily identify a breed let alone an actual individual pet. Although going to a dog park and collecting "samples" and seeding them has a lot of humor potential. How about
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FTA:
"Dog owners paid a one-time fee of $59.95 for the initial DNA testing for the database. Subsequent lab tests of dog droppings that end up identifying the offending animal result in a $50 testing fee plus a $100 fine."
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Or rub the owner's nose in it. It's supposed to work for dogs. I bet it would work much better on humans.
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This. It can even be voluntary if they'll waive the fine.
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It's because there's profit in this, but sadly not in helping rape victims.
Which ultimately shows how fucked up society is.
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Reasonably good odds != beyond reasonable doubt.
False rape accusations happen.
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