Saudi Cleric Pummeled On Twitter For Claiming Driving Damages Women's Ovaries 408
An anonymous reader writes "CNN reports, "Sheikh Saleh Al-Loheidan's widely derided remarks have gone viral ... 'If a woman drives a car,' Al-Loheidan told Saudi news website sabq.org. 'it could have a negative physiological impact. It would automatically affect a woman's ovaries and that it pushes the pelvis upward.' ... 'We find that for women who continuously drive cars, their children are born with varying degrees of clinical problems.' The controversial comments were widely interpreted throughout Saudi Arabia as an attempt to discourage women in the country from joining a popular online movement urging them to stage a demonstration by driving cars on October 26. 'This is his answer to the campaign,' Saudi women's rights activist Aziza Yousef told CNN. 'He's making a fool of himself. He shouldn't touch this field at all.' Al-Loheidan's words have been ridiculed mercilessly via social media. An Arabic Twitter hashtag called '#WomensDrivingAffectsOvariesAndPelvises' was quickly created to make fun of Al-Loheidan — underscoring just how widely the call for Saudi women to defy the driving ban has resonated thus far. And while numerous conservative voices have supported Al-Loheidan, many Saudis believe this was an extremely clumsy way of trying to counter the popularity of the October 26 campaign.'"
Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget the obvious: RIDING in the car, but not driving it, is apparently fine for the ovaries.
Try and wrap your head around that!
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Insightful)
And its not dangerous at all for testicles.
Even though they're sat on, bounced around on. etc.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Funny)
My genitals are always HUGE when I'm driving my car.
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My genitals are always HUGE when I'm driving my car.
Love this...the more we talk about Huge genitals the better!
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RIDING in the car, but not driving it, is apparently fine for the ovaries.
It's true! It shortens the menstrual cycle to two weeks, making the woman twice as fertile. Unfortunately, it has the opposite effect on mens' testicles. That's why they have to drive, it makes them more virile, and having more than one man in a car is very gay, punishable by death.
Now, let's talk about the backseat. This is where babies are made.
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Don't forget the obvious: RIDING in the car, but not driving it, is apparently fine for the ovaries.
Only applies if they're in the backseat. If they're up front, that's where all the riding around damage occurs.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Insightful)
As crazy as this sounds, it's not too far off from what some ultraconservatives apparently believe.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Informative)
That’s not quite the “ultra conservatives” position.
The “Pro Life” (anti-abortionist) fall into 2 camps. The first wants to ban abortions expect for “rape, incest, or medical reasons. The second camp wants to ban all abortions for 2 reasons. If life begins at conception, then you can’t execute the fetus just because the father is a bad person. They view the first camp’s position as a dangerous concession. The second reason that the 2nd camp gives is that there are very few conceptions from forcible rape from a stranger – a.k.a. “real rape” – as opposed to date rape, drugged rape, etc.
These arguments don’t carry any water with me but let’s try to get the oppositions position correct.
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Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Insightful)
A fertilized zygote won't turn into a human being "by itself", either - it requires a host to actively sustain it. If your argument is that it's only a human being when it's self-sufficient, then you should be perfectly fine with early abortions. On the other hand, if that is not your criteria, then it is not at all clear what makes fertilized egg any different from unfertilized one - both merely have the potential to grow into a self-sufficient human being, but aren't one.
Of course, in practice, your kind uses various logical fallacies to attempt to justify what is ultimately blind religious faith (ironically, a fairly recent one - Christians of old did not believe that soul was imparted at conception; in fact, there were oft-quoted Biblical passages to support the position that soul only came with the first breath).
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A fertilized zygote, on the other hand, usually will.
Back in reality, "Around half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously [nih.gov], usually before the woman knows she is pregnant."
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Don't forget the obvious: RIDING in the car, but not driving it, is apparently fine for the ovaries. Try and wrap your head around that!
That's because reading the Qu'ran damages prefrontal cortexes, even when not driving.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:4, Funny)
Don't forget the obvious: RIDING in the car, but not driving it, is apparently fine for the ovaries.
Try and wrap your head around that!
I'll just say this;
Danica Patrick: 0 children.
Coincidence?
(Here is a picture of her, obviously lamenting her career choice.
I urge you to look at this and think about her poor, poor abused reproductive system.)
http://www.wallpaper4me.com/images/wallpapers/hotroddanicapatrick-690981.jpeg [wallpaper4me.com]
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Informative)
well.. the saudi cleric would probably comment that standing next to the stove is the only safe place for women.
why he bothered with such a lie I got no idea. maybe he thought he was talking to some 4 year old kids or something... definitely sounds like a guy who's surrounded by extremely "yes" men.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes the heat from the stove helps to keep the ovaries supple and healthy!
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well.. the saudi cleric would probably comment that standing next to the stove is the only safe place for women.
This is Saudi Arabia, they have slaves ('indentured servants') to stand next to the stove. A proper Saudi women's place is to take care of kids, or to work on the next one.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:4, Funny)
Sitting is always bad. She should be doing housework and caring for her husband and 20 kids!
That statement took balls... (Score:3)
Ovaries are internal, and protected from shock.
Testacles are right there on the seat, taking all the shock.
So by that logic, ergo: Men shouldn't drive, it lowers sperm count and virility... let women do the driving.
I think that boy has been driving with his head(s) on the axle a bit too long.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Insightful)
What an idiot.
Now, now... At least he's not suggesting that humans herded dinosaurs sometime in the last 6,000 years, and is insisting that this fantasy be taught to all the children Texas public schools.
Anyone who turns to a cleric, of any religion, for medical/scientific advice deserves everything that happens to him/her.
Re: Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Interesting)
He must be a liberal democrat!
His unscientific view of women's anatomy more closely resembles that of Republican Todd Akin, who claimed women have magic body parts that prevent conception when "legitimately" raped.
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I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only republican to agree with that philosophy.
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But it's the exact same kind of stupid -- our ideology tells us these things, and the facts be damned. I believe the Republicans were saying that in context of continuing to disagree with women's birth control and abortion.
It's wanting your beliefs to trump reality, when it's your beliefs that are faulty.
If you believe driving a car is going to damage ovaries, or that if you get raped your body will prevent pregnancy -- then you're
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only republican to agree with that philosophy.
Well, considering the backlash that former Rep Akin received from the Republican Party after making his ridiculous commentary, I'd say that Akin's in a small minority. His shockingly ignorant statements cost him his seat, so I'd say he paid a fair price.
Around the time that he made his commentary, I tried to understand what would make him want to believe such a thing that made no sense. What I think it boils down to is a basic conundrum for pro-lifers: You can't ban abortion in any effective fashion if you make an exception to the ban for rape and incest, because if you do, women who are seeking abortions will simply lie about the circumstances of their pregnancies in order to obtain legal abortions. Allow those exceptions, and you haven't outlawed anything. In order to address this loophole, it is necessary to outlaw all abortion for any reason (except, perhaps, if the mother will die if the pregnancy continues), but this position of eliminating the rape/incest exception is unpalatable to the American public.
Once you understand the issue from their perspective, it's easier to see how they could believe such a ridiculous notion, that a woman's body will somehow prevent a pregnancy from occurring if she is raped violently (for brevity, let's ignore the 'legitimate/forcible rape' issue). They need some way to close that loophole, and this is one such way to do it: a belief that if a pregnancy occurred, then she must not have been raped. If that bit of medical fiction were true, then we could know that the pregnancy was not the result of rape, so no exception would be granted.
So that's why such a theory is so seductive to some, in my estimation.
Re:Where to start with this one...? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or in other words; when reality and their believes are in conflict, it is reality that must have gotten it wrong. Yes, that sounds about right.
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Definitely not.
WaitWaitDon'tTellMe (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:WaitWaitDon'tTellMe (Score:5, Insightful)
..."In other news, a fatwah has been issued against tweeting."
Yes, because getting "pummeled on Twitter" is really going to have an impact on this guy.
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Yes, because getting "pummeled on Twitter" is really going to have an impact on this guy.
Firstly I'm no fan of twitter and don't have an account. Nor do I follow anyone on twitter.
The whole thing is a massive popularity contest, but then again, so is organised religion. So actually such a figure being made to look a complete idiot in a public forum actually does matter.
herp derp (Score:2)
Fundamentalist Religions: Oppressing Women Forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Fear and Freedom don't mix well. Let's all be a little more brave and learn to tell all the batshit religious crazies to fuck off. I don't care if they do raise hell and blow stuff up - eventually there won't be enough left of them to matter.
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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Since like forever, the old men who are afraid of their womens getting loose have used the Korans, Bibles, Talmuds, etc to control their womens. Fear and Freedom don't mix well. Let's all be a little more brave and learn to tell all the batshit religious crazies to fuck off. I don't care if they do raise hell and blow stuff up - eventually there won't be enough left of them to matter.
I seem to recall various atheist countries that were afraid of their people getting loose used Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il, and others to control their people. One of the pioneers in suicide bombing were the Tamil Tigers, an essentially secular movement. Batshit crazy is crazy no matter the source. If Europeans don't get their birthrate up, eventually there won't be enough of them to matter. Guess who has the higher birth rate? Native European are on the self-chosen path to extinction, and th
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I seem to recall various atheist countries that were afraid of their people getting loose used Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il, and others to control their people.
I seem to recall Marxist Feminism being born as a way to control women, convince them that they were oppressed by men and thus enter the work force, doubling the workers. It did not bring equility, it merely burdened women. It did not bring the choice to the family of which parent would raise the child, but instead normalized the method of human reproduction by having children raised by the state. Radical Feminism was born by adding to Marxist Feminism the idea that oppression was Patriarchal in nature [wikipedia.org];
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A culture isn't "valid" or "invalid". That's meaningless. We CAN judge whether a culture has immoral beliefs and practices. This is a very clear case in which we can see immoral beliefs and practices, and the mental gymnastics the cultural leaders have to do to defend them.
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A culture isn't "valid" or "invalid". That's meaningless. We CAN judge whether a culture has immoral beliefs and practices. This is a very clear case in which we can see immoral beliefs and practices, and the mental gymnastics the cultural leaders have to do to defend them.
Actually no we can't. Morality is a product of culture, therefore one culture cannot objectively judge the morality of another.
Some cultures are more "successful" than others (as measured by quality of life, and propagation of their cultural identity). But that tells us nothing of "morality", or "validity".
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Some moral judgments can be based on objective reality and rationality. There can be an objective morality. It is just that it is vastly more limited than what people normally consider morality.
Rape is objectively immoral.
Murder, but not necessarily killing, is objectively immoral.
etc
Re:You can't judge (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps you could enumerate these statements so that they can be chiseled onto stone tablets?
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Incorrect. All religions may be equally valid... all equally completely invalid.
But some cultures are more valid than others.
Re:Fundamentalist Religions: Oppressing Women Fore (Score:4, Interesting)
If Sarah Silverman had said it, we would be laughing at her joke because that's a stupid thing to say.
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If Sarah Silverman had said it, people would be calling her a genius.
funny how the moral relativists come out of the wood-work to scream about a sudden universal right and wrong once their pet issue is involved.
also, you are racist for criticizing their culture.
If Sarah Silverman had said it, she wouldn't be serious, much less trying to control lives with the statement. It's called "humor." Also, see "sarcasm." And "entertainment." You may as well consider the movie "Star Wars" to have been a documentary, if you equate her saying this with a Saudi cleric saying it.
Moral relativism is a total non-issue here; this is a Saudi cleric...a religious leader of a famously oppressive culture...with regard to whether or not there should be gender discrimination with reg
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Fundamentalism requires a component of arbitrary faith. All fundamentalists are religious, even if the thing they hold sacred and believe empowers them isn't a traditional god as such.
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More or less correct, or like the "invisible hand of the free market"
Brain damage (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Brain damage (Score:5, Funny)
It is true (Score:3)
It is true! It is also true that women cannot get pregnant from "legitimate" rape.
Re:It is true (Score:5, Insightful)
This. The Middle East has no monopoly on ridiculous ideas about female physiology. Some American politicians, pundits, and religious leaders are downright scary in this regard.
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The reason, you see, that it's really "rare" for a woman to get pregnant when she is raped is because rape, by itself, is already relatively rare compared to the frequency with which people voluntarily engage in copulative sex...
Oblig [xkcd.com]
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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No. It is perfectly clear that he was trying to dodge the tough questions about a ban on abortion by claiming that no woman who was actually raped (he used the word legitimately) would end up pregnant in the first place. He strongly implied that if the woman was pregnant then she must have wanted it.
you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/vibration/vibration_intro.html [ccohs.ca]
Re:you know... (Score:5, Insightful)
Except there's data to support that helicopter example. There's no data to support what this cleric just pulled out of his ass.
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Re:you know... (Score:4, Insightful)
As crazy and wrong as this guy is, his claim isn't completely out of left field.
Wrong. His claim is completely out of left field because he just made this shit up. It's not without precedent, but that is a very different thing, not least because the assertion is that all automobiles will damage all ovaries.
When you have an unreasonable position... (Score:2)
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It never has been. Capital offenses under Sharia (which Wahhabi religiously follow) are:
- murder (though relatives of the victim can opt for a fine instead)
- apostasy
- adultery, for married people
- homosexuality
- insulting Muhammad (but not Allah, curiously)
- sorcery / witchcraft
- brigandage - in practice, this subsumes most kind of robberies, kidnapping, and hijacking of vehicles
- theft of property valued more than one dinar (4.374 g of gold), on the fourth conviction
Saudi laws add terrorism, treason, sedi
snickrsnee! (Score:2)
Of course, if one cared to invoke physiology here, the real victim is the male genitalia, which need cooler temperatures to produce healthy sperm, a condition undermined by any posture that isn't standing with the legs slightly apart while wearing loose clothing. Oh dear!
Fundies (Score:4, Funny)
Isn't it about time that this guy and Todd Akin [wikipedia.org] just get a room, already, and make out.
Long tag is long (Score:3)
Hashtags are getting ridiculous.
"#WomensDrivingAffectsOvariesAndPelvises"
Were they worried about getting confused with the always popular "#WomensDrivingAffectsOvaries"?
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Don't worry, soon it will degenerate in something like #YourMomDrivesAnF1
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For example: #RealAmericanFoxPatriots WhoFightAgainstAPresidentWhoIsA KenyanSocialistWhoWantsToSetHisLiberal AtheistMuslimArmyAgainstRealAmericanFoxPatriots
Spaces added to bypass the filter.
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Dude, CamelCase. That was really hard to parse. #GreasedYodaDollShovedUpMyAss. See how much easier that is?
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Dude, CamelCase. That was really hard to parse. #GreasedYodaDollShovedUpMyAss. See how much easier that is?
No. Still hurts like hell.
Correlation != Causation (Score:5, Insightful)
You might be able to say that women who drive a car get damaged ovaries, but you missing the intermediate step where the woman is dragged from the car and beaten.
Dumbass should be pummelled in other places. (Score:2)
Like between his legs.
Show him "physiological consequences".
Fucking religious nutbags.
(Pun unintentional.)
Meanwhile (Score:3, Informative)
The Pope says stupid shit all the time and is lauded for it.
Actually I would have to say this current Pope is a little more forward thinking, he is choosing to ignore the issues rather than outright dismissing them based on 2000 year old dogma. Given another 2000 years a Pope might finally say something intelligent and original based on current science and facts.
Does Slashdot have to embrace this crap? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the Kardashian model of what makes news worthy. Any idiot saying or doing anything shocking to most of us becomes a media sensation. Just because it was on Twitter doesn't make it relevant to this audience. I'm hoping this trend of dumping crap here skimmed off TMZ headlines doesn't continue.
WTF? (Score:2)
Women in Marathons (Score:4, Funny)
Forbidden Tomatoes that are Christian (Score:2)
This story remind me that in Egypt some clerics were mocked on the web after a story about cut tomatoes showing a cross. [christianpost.com]
I hope their next move will give birth to an hilarious meme :) Let see... in which country do we also have good candidates ?
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So logically he wouldn't oppose... (Score:3)
So logically he wouldn't oppose women past child-bearing age from driving? Or has he spouted some other nuttiness to justify keeping them from driving?
What are scientific findings? (Score:2)
It appears that ideology and political correctness have taken over the debate, here and elsewhere. This should be a matter of research not emotions. For example it is known that women in heavily male dominated professions, such as math, physics, engineering, programming, hacking,... have more problems conceiving and have more miscarriages. This is due to their hormonal balance which is shifted toward male side. Generally, women who have problems with miscarriages are advised during pregnancy to take it easy
October 26 (Score:2)
It's my mom's Birthday!
But I'm sure you NSA guys knew that already...
I stopped reading after the first sentence (Score:4, Insightful)
First sentence says "Saudi Cleric" claims something is so. Why would anyone with any sense read any further? What are you guys, masochists? Do you intentionally look for things to irritate you? Surely you were aware than nothing beneficial or insightful can follow in anything beginning with "Saudi Cleric claims..."
Stop intentionally finding things to piss yourself off. You'll live a healthier, and probably longer, life.
Look at our own anti-drug propoganda (Score:3)
Honestly, read about everything that the government says marijuana is going to do to you - then consider that our current, last two, and first two Presidents (at the least) used the substance.
Our government is just as stupid, only in other areas.
Naturally (Score:4, Insightful)
Over the centuries, science has continually reaffirmed that women's health is severely impacted by such stressful activities as reading, writing, voting, driving, owning property, having a job, leaving the kitchen, or thinking.
Re:eh... (Score:4, Informative)
When you actually look at the demographics [nytimes.com], the Tea Party crew are actually more educated than the average American. They aren't lacking in logical abilities, but the impression that they do comes from televised news, which in its frenzy for ever-more-senationalist stories to generate ad revenue likes to focus on the fringe that staple tea bags to their foreheads and carry around signs reading "GIT LARNED SUM ANGLISH FUR YALL COME TO DIS COUNTRY" (hint: the more mainstream Tea Party members concern themselves with economic issues like taxation, not so much immigration).
This one Saudi cleric, however, is clearly on the fringe of even Saudi religious authority. So, you're right if you want to compare this guy to the kind of looney fringe of the Tea Party that you'll see on TV, but not if you want to compare him to the average Tea Party member.
Re:eh... (Score:5, Interesting)
When you actually look at the demographics [nytimes.com], the Tea Party crew are actually more educated than the average American
Let's make sure we know what educated means in this context: more degrees than a similar population of average Americans would have. To some extent, this matches my experience: tea partiers - or those who espouse the libertarian aspect of the Tea Party - have more money than average, and have at least a Bachelor Degree, if not a Master. No PhDs among the ones I know though.
However, there's one area where they are spectacularly ignorant, to the point where I'm starting to think that there's some specific cognitive effect at work: they all think that they made it on their own in the world, think that Government should be run like a business and think that the purpose of Society is to make their life better. Keep in mind though that they the vast majority come from wealthy families, have businesses that fail, are full of cronies and family members, experience how shoddy and shady businesses can be, and live in one of the most stable environments in the world.
Even the mainstream Tea Partiers that I know - or at least those who profess no ideological attachment, but pretty much recite Tea Party and Republican political platforms verbatim - indulge in a massive misunderstanding of how society operates, what the role of government is or even what made their own success possible. Top that off with a complete lack of understanding what the debt ceiling is (a badly set up part of the budget process), and even the "moderate" Tea Partiers can come across as complete lunatics. For my friends who are part of this group, I treat them like the crazy uncle - they're always welcome, but certain topics are forbidden, unless everyone consents to "lively" debates until 4 AM.
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Saudi Cleric is about the same thing as a tea party member. Their logic ability is about exactly the same.
Obvious troll is obvious; here's a novel idea - maybe try judging individuals based on their own actions, and not some arbitrary label.
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I have met dozens of Tea Partiers, comes with the territory of being a libertarian (though one with a non-standard economic and social viewpoint), and they do all express the same level of complete idiocy and ignorance. None of them have been remotely rational or competent.
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"Most generalizations are false, including this one." -- Mark Twain
I get that people organize under particular flags because of a shared ideology, but any time I see someone use a phrase like "they do all express the same level of [blank]," I pretty much ignore what they're saying because it's an obvious generalization, which are essentially always false.
In my experience, the last half of your post applies to pretty much every named group of any particular political ideology.
Re:Twitter is nerdy .... right? (Score:5, Funny)
This is news for nerds because of Twitter! Twitter is all technical and stuff, with the computers and the social media buzz.
Seriously, WTF? What's next? Baseball scores?
Dude, it's football season.
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Then he is doing it right.
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Dude, it's Slashdot. Don't expect them to be on time. Or even from the most recent season. Or decade.
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Dude, it's football season.
Are they talking about it on Facebook? If so, this "football season" of yours may make a great Slashdot story.
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This is news for nerds because of Twitter! Twitter is all technical and stuff, with the computers and the social media buzz.
Seriously, WTF? What's next? Baseball scores?
Dude, it's football season.
...unless you're in the playoffs, like the RED SOX!!!!
Re:Self-driving cars (Score:5, Interesting)
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But Saudi Arabia being Saudi Arabia, they'd probably insist that the woman "driving" be escorted by a male relation lest any other male on the road be so overcome by passion to ram her vehicle and rape her by the roadside. Which would be her fault obviously.
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The Streisand Effect is when the act of trying to hide or cover something makes it even more widely known than it otherwise would be. I don't see how that applies here.
Re:Please come to my neighborhood (Score:4, Informative)
I've had numerous bad driving experience with:
- Women in general
- Asians
- College students
- Old people
- Teenagers
- Men in general
- Animals
- Bicyclists
- Prius drivers
- Lexus drivers
- BMW drivers
- Chevy drivers
- And one helicopter on the Thruway
It ain't just one demographic that makes driving a bad experience in general.
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Can we all agree that old people in helicopters are the worst for driving too slow and over the line?
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If you come to England, you can add "white van man" to that list.
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They can't simply leave for elsewhere. They can't leave the country without the permission of their husband, or father (or the closest surviving male relative) for unmarried ones. Heck, they can't even leave the house without supervision.
Saudi Arabia is truly one of the most oppressive regimes in the world, in many ways worse even than North Korea (that would otherwise rank at the very bottom), and infinitely worse than your typical run-of-the-mill Middle Eastern dictatorship. Sadly, it's also the prominent