Lowell Observatory Pushes To Name an Asteroid "Trayvon" 588
Flash Modin writes "The observatory where Pluto was discovered is pushing to name an asteroid after a black teenager killed in a controversial confrontation in Florida last year. William Lowell Putnam III says his family has identified with the cause of African American rights, and thus an asteroid named after Trayvon Martin is perfectly appropriate. Putnam is the sole trustee of the observatory, which was founded by Percival Lowell during his search for canals on Mars. Astronomers at the observatory discovered the asteroid in 2000, but it has not been formally named. Putnam has already asked the Minor Planet Center once to designate the asteroid 'Trayvon,' but they told him the designation was 'premature.' Now that there's been a verdict, the observatory is reapplying in hopes the naming body will see things different."
no (Score:4, Insightful)
injecting stupid political games into space has got to be a new low in astronomy
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No, otherwise I'd be a freaking circus. Remember, the names of these planets/asteroids will have to be used by the Scientific Community for serious work. I'd be a distraction to have deal with writing reports on planet LoLKatz6990 and asteroid belt CASH$MON$YHitlerBabez8888
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Imagine an asteroid named Fight Club. Now, do you really want to talk about that? :-)
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I have read the Trayvon v. Zimmerman case fairly extensively. I can't pick sides because I found bad judgement in the actions of Martin and Zimmerman.
What I really dislike about the whole thing are these agent provocateurs who have nothing to do with it and who are using this as a political indictment against Black or White people. Racism is still a big thing in America. People have died because of it. They will stop at nothing until they light up the fire of another bloody racial conflagration.
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
I found bad judgement in the actions of Martin and Zimmerman.
I agree, both of them failed to pick the safest possible path. GZ should have stayed in his truck, and he should have looked the other way. TM should have walked directly home. They haven't done that. However none of what they actually did - until the first blow landed - was illegal. They were not accused of walking the public streets; they were not accused of looking at people; they were not accused of talking to each other. All that is legal. (Well, GZ was actually accused of that because the DA wanted to hit him with crime of racism; but that was unfair, and it didn't work.)
Being not exceptionally careful is not a crime. You aren't careful if you choose to walk through a ghetto at midnight. But it's your right - and if you survive you won't be put on trial. All actions of GZ and TM were legal - until TM struck. That's when legality ended, and that's what got TM killed. TM would be killed just as well if he walked up to any stranger and hit him in the face. The preceding actions may have contributed to anger, or fear of disrespect, that TM seemingly had. But those actions are just as legal for them as for a man to follow a woman in a dark alley. They just go in the same direction. A woman may be scared; but legally it means nothing; she is not entitled to, for example, turning around and throwing a knife at the man. Trayvon may have been upset, but that gave him no special right to assault anyone. He held a phone in his hand all the time - he could have called 911 at any time if he had a genuine fear. He, an active football player, could have outrun pretty much anyone and be at home within seconds. There are many paths TM could have taken that don't include hitting people in the face and then trying to murder them.
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Being not exceptionally careful is not a crime. You aren't careful if you choose to walk through a ghetto at midnight. But it's your right - and if you survive you won't be put on trial.
Unless you're a rape victim.
rape and drunk (Score:3)
Drunken rape really has two scenarios, that some advocates unfairly treat as equal:
1) woman goes out, gets drunk, says no, is forced -- actual rape
2) woman goes out, gets drunk, goes home with guy, regrets it in the morning when sober, cries rape -- not actual rape
confusing things worse is case 3
3) woman goes out, gets drunk, hooks up with equally drunk gu
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You are wrong, maybe not technically but in theme. Being careless can and in many cases should be a crime. No drunk driver intends to kill anyone.
Zimmerman is certainly NOT guilty of any aggravating circumstances and I can even believe that he is probably a basically good person who intended to do the right thing. The basic problem is his behavior was reckless and in a way that was clearly dangerous to other people.
When a policeman confronts a person he clearly identifies himself for a reason. He is say
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Agreed.
Even if the kid hadn't been a dope-smoking, fight-starting, gangsta-wannabe thug who lacked the foresight to consider the lack of wisdom in physically attacking a random stranger in a southern state with both concealed-carry and stand-your-ground laws in effect, what scientific potential did he embody (forget actually accomplish) to warrant his name being carried into astronomic posterity?
Even if your ugly characterization is accurate that doesn't actually make his death something other than a tragedy.
Though I agree that giving asteriods politically charged names is generally a bad idea.
Re:no (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if your ugly characterization is accurate that doesn't actually make his death something other than a tragedy.
People make bad decisions which can cost them their lives, and in a sense its a tragedy, yes, but not a tragedy in the sense that "we have to make sure noone can defend themselves with lethal force".
Re:no (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if your ugly characterization is accurate that doesn't actually make his death something other than a tragedy.
People make bad decisions which can cost them their lives, and in a sense its a tragedy, yes, but not a tragedy in the sense that "we have to make sure noone can defend themselves with lethal force".
That's the problem with the "Trayvon" designation for the asteroid, it has nothing to do with Trayvon Martin. It's just a way to signal that you're against racial profiling and guns if you think Zimmerman is guilty, or a way to signal that you believe in self defence and gun rights if you think Zimmerman did the right think. Only two people really know what happened, one of them is dead, and no one really cares anyway except as a proxy in a political debate.
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What is funny about your statement is how you threw dope-smoking in there. You used it in a very negative way as to say that smoking pot somehow criminalizes him and your comment gets modded insightful. Meanwhile when a pro-pot legalization article hits /. everyone is talking about how great pot is, how it should be legalized and how they smoke it all the time and get modded insightful.
Am I missing something here?
But I do agree with your statement. That case was blown WAAAAAAY out of proportion. If the skin
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I might be wrong, but I don't think Zimmerman even knew what race Trayvon Martin was before Martin jumped him.
Whatever might be said of Zimmerman, he didn't follow the kid because he was black. People made poor choices and somebody paid with their life. It's a tragedy, but to turn it into a race issue does a tremendous disservice to all the great people who have worked hard and sacrificed so much to advance civil rights in this country.
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Re:Well he showed the problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Checking the transcript, it seems Zimmerman identified him as "looks black" - nonetheless, I believe the testimony was that he didn't know Martin's race when he started following him. He only knew for sure when Martin turned to confront him the first time as he was on the phone with the dispatcher.
Re:Well he showed the problem (Score:5, Informative)
Hes referring to the doctored recordings where Zimmerman is made to sounds like he uses a racial epithet. Didnt a news organization have to apologize for airing the doctored recording?
Re:Well he showed the problem (Score:5, Informative)
"Amateur Cop" is a thing in the US. Zimmerman was part of a police-sponsored neighborhood watch program, in which people take it upon themselves to ... well, watch the neighborhood. The opening of this whole thing is that he saw a guy that "looked suspicious" (for whatever reason), got out of his car, and followed at a distance. That's pretty normal.
The "At a distance" thing is important, and something a lot of people missed. Trayvon turned down a street and went south; Zimmerman passed that street heading east, watching to see where Trayvon was going while reporting to the dispatcher. What Zimmerman was not doing was following Trayvon down the road in the shadows, inching closer, trying to get a bead on the little black kid; everyone wants to perpetuate this "stalking an innocent teenager" thing anyway, but that's not what happened.
What happened after that is less understood. Somehow Trayvon got to his house (south), then came back 100 meters (north) and a confrontation occurred. This became a physical altercation, which ended with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon to death. The murder argument comes down to an argument over whether or not Zimmerman was being beaten to death (or reasonably believed he was being beaten to death)--this is why you keep hearing that Trayvon was "armed with concrete" and smashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.
Zimmerman had a permit to carry a gun because he's a shitty fighter. If he wasn't such a useless lump of shit, maybe he could have fought back and controlled the situation. He's lucky Trayvon didn't just take his gun and shoot him to death with it. Non-US people might find the concept of regular citizens carrying guns a little displacing--it's not a thing people do in England, for example--but in the US, people actually carry guns in case they're attacked. Beyond that, shooting Trayvon to death is just the natural result of being in a situation where he thought he was gonna die--that is, the natural action is to try to not die, and the only capable way he could think of to not die was to kill Trayvon.
Everything between the confrontation and the death is unclear. Fortunately for Zimmerman (and the rest of us), because nothing here screams "violent premeditated or negligent homicide", the only rational thing to do is accept "self-defense" and move on. Unfortunately, people are not rational and start screaming for blood, trying to blame Zimmerman while dismissing the very real and strong possibility that he was, in fact, going to die if he didn't shoot Trayvon right there. So we have this mess.
I don't understand the "Civil Rights" involved. They say Trayvon's rights were violated. What rights? He was observed in public; if he wasn't doing anything bad, the police wouldn't have even been able to search him. He could have 20 pounds of cocaine and stolen jewelry on him, and the cops could show up like "we heard reports of a suspicious person," and he's like "Everything's alright here," and they're like "Can we search your bag?" "No." That's it. Nothing actually happening here? The cops don't even get to frisk you. Other people are entitled to observe you, the police are entitled to pass through the neighborhood and ask you if you're alright and whatever, but if you're not obviously committing a crime (even if you really ARE, but it's not visible and they have no probable cause to assume you're a criminal) then they can't do shit. You could have burglary tools and a bomb in your backpack and they can't even check it to make sure you just have school books (unless somebody reported seeing you using burglary tools to try to break into somewhere).
I guess the only civil right here might be the right to, you know, not get shot to death; and you immediately waive that right when you're in the process of murdering someone.
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Right... (Score:2, Troll)
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The "stand your ground" law never entered into the Martin-Zimmerman situation on the street, or in the courtroom as a matter of law. You seem to be fixated by the idea of it despite the fact it is irrelevant. You may want to consider counseling if you can't stop thinking about it. The thoughts you are expressing don't really seem appropriate.
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Anyway, SYG was never mentioned, it was pure self defense. The worthless thug attacked first and wouldn't have let the fat one withdraw even if he had
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Anyway, SYG was never mentioned, it was pure self defense. The worthless thug
Dehumanizing the victim makes things simpler
It's like breathing with a respirator
It eases the conscience of even the most conscious and calculating violator
Words can reduce a person to an object something more easy to hate
An animate entity, completely disposable
No problem to obliterate
But death is the silence in this language of violence
(Franti)
attacked first and wouldn't have let the fat one withdraw even if he had wanted too.
Zimmerman stalked him and we'll never know what he said to him. Jump to the end: only half the scum ended up dead.
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You show a wondrous ability to withstand the fact that he was accosted and provoked by an armed man older than him. [...] defending himself against an unknown armed assailant
A good part of the reason Zimmerman was acquitted was because of the lack of evidence for all these lazy-ass assertions.
Also, this is the first claim I've heard of age being a dominant (much less a useful) factor in a fist fight. I'm even older than Zimmerman. Does that mean I'd trounce Trayvan or for that matter Zimmerman? Doesn't look like it to me. I think I'd be smoothing concrete with my face.
Instead, I think I'd be using what wisdom I've managed to scrape up to try not get into situations like t
Re:no (Score:4, Interesting)
I think we're far past the point where anyone's the least bit interested in evidence. Instead, everyone who talks about this case simply makes up stuff - often ludicrously detailed - to support their own notions, often twisted by insane troll logic (no, you don't really want Zimmerman to be the poster boy for gun rights, now do you?).
Which is why I think this asteroid should be named "Trayvon-Zimmerman". Human capacity for self-deception certainly deserves a monument, and if irony is on our side archeologists in a few (dozen) generations might well promote it to an actual Greek god.
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which certainly would have been that he was minding his own business when George Zimmerman approached him and threatened him.
Guys, stop the presses, we have an eyewitness who forgot to testify, with never-before heard evidence.
How, exactly, are you determining what "certainly would have been his testimony" above and beyond all of the evidence which disputes your version of the story?
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Perhaps you can explain to us why your version of events doesn't match the witness testimony of the prosecutions star witness. That Martin left, went home, and came back.
How about that (Score:5, Funny)
It's being followed by a pale asteroid named Zimmerman.
Victim Belt (Score:5, Insightful)
Astronomers usually want to inspire hope, and looking up at things named after victims just doesn't seem right.
Re:Victim Belt (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't really think naming celestial bodies after victims is a good idea.
Astronomers usually want to inspire hope, and looking up at things named after victims just doesn't seem right.
He's obviously not a victim if the person who killed him was acquitted by a jury of justifiable homicide.
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Logic fail. Numerous innocent people have been convicted (and some executed) of crimes they haven't committed.
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Clearly the black woman on the jury was being racist. And clearly its whiteys fault even when hes not actually white.
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> Astronomers usually want to inspire hope, and looking up at things named after victims just doesn't seem right.
Then let's all look up at Uranus !
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And, I mean, let's get our higher profile victims up there first. Where's asteroid Anne Frank?
Re:Victim Belt (Score:5, Informative)
Sigh. Found it. [wikipedia.org]
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Yeah because Anne Frank and Trayvon are remotely in the same league.
It is heading straignt towards Earth! (Score:4, Funny)
Look At This objectively (Score:4, Insightful)
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you can't condemn martin's behavior
trayvon martin should be in jail for assault
I'm sorry sir, I think you just condemned his behavior.
Re:zimmerman stalked the poor kid (Score:5, Insightful)
some mouth breathing moron thinks he has a right to walk around with a gun
He does. Someone should re-read the constitution, and the law in florida. Just because YOU have contempt for your rights, doesnt mean the courts do.
play cop
He WAS on the neighborhood watch in an area which had suffered a rash of break ins. Come on, this was widely reported.
innocent civilians
Yes, heres the thing, a jury found that Martin WASNT innocent, and that there was grounds for a plea of self-defense. That, too is a right that citizens have.
laws that somehow support this disgusting behavior
Most societies that you would want to live in have both an adversarial court system, and a defense for killing on the grounds of self-defense. Thank goodness that is the case here. What laws, specifically are you thinking of-- hopefully not the "stand your ground" law which had absolutely no relevance to the case?
stand your ground laws, carry/ conceal laws: they have to go
Ah, yes, you were, which indicates you were successfully distracted by the media in a discussion on irrelevant laws. Look through the court transcripts and see if "stand your ground" had any relevance: You will find it did not. The issue at stake was whether Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin in self-defense.
You seem to have bought into the race-card-Zimmerman-was-a-racist story that was spun up by the media, so I really suggest you go back and look at the facts, not the op-eds and commentary that was spun up around the whole issue. The amount of bias that came out in this whole ordeal was astounding, from the doctored recordings, to the doctored photos, to the claims that Zimmerman was white, to the claims that white-on-black violence is anywhere near common (in reality, 80+% of violence is intra-racial-- white-on-white, black-on-black, etc).
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He WAS on the neighborhood watch in an area which had suffered a rash of break ins. Come on, this was widely reported.
Anyone who knows anything about Neighborhood Watch programs knows that the absolute, number 1 rule is do not confront someone that looks suspicious, call the police, but do not attempt to confront them. Number 2 rule? Do not carry a gun.
"Members should never confront suspicious persons..."
"It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons..."
Neighborhood Watch Manual [usaonwatch.org]
The fact that Zimmerman was a part of the local Neighborhood Watch means that he had
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Anyone who knows anything about Neighborhood Watch programs knows that the absolute, number 1 rule is do not confront someone that looks suspicious,...
That's wonderful. There is NO evidence that George Zimmerman ever confronted Trayvon Martin and some evidence that suggests that Trayvon Martin confronted George Zimmerman (including the testimony of Rachel Jeantel). So, The first part of your argument is a fail. In addition, there is, again, no evidence that George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin after the dispatcher told him that they did not need him to do that (note: the dispatcher did NOT tell him NOT to follow Martin, only that they did not need him
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Right, some random .org without any actual standing.
No, USAonWatch is managed by the National Sherrif's Association and organizes roughly 20.000 neighborhood watch programs. They have been around for 40 years. There is pretty much no one else in the "business" of organizing neighborhood watch programs.
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"He WAS on the neighborhood watch in an area which had suffered a rash of break ins."
In normal countries neighbourhood watch doesn't mean going round looking for trouble with a gun. It means keeping an eye out for anything suspicious and phoning the professionals (the police) to deal with it and why do you think that is? Precisely to avoid shit like this.
"Yes, heres the thing, a jury found that Martin WASNT innocent"
Wrong, it found that there wasn't enough evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was guilty which
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stand your ground laws, carry/ conceal laws: they have to go
I completely agree. Do you know how hard it is to make a living as a mugger when you have to worry about people fighting back? And the damn women, they carry guns in their purses these days. Back in the day, you could put a knife to her throat, drag her in an alley and rape her, no questions asked. Now you're constantly worried about some bitch thinking she's the Kill Bill chick and wants to show some resistance. Since when is it worth my life to stop robbery or rape? Am I not a person too?
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Well, if they do, just shoot them and say you were defending yourself.
Man, you are a loser (Score:2)
Zimmerman was patrolling a GATED community in which Martin himself also lived as far as I know. I don't like the idea of gated communities but if you live in one, you basically agree with neighborhood watches.
Zimmerman HAD the right to play cop given to him by everyone who choose to live in that GATED community, including Martin.
And Martin only lived there because he was a thug wannabe and had been kicked out by his parents.
It is clear where you loyalties lie, you believe Martin should be able to do what
Y does not follow X. (Score:4, Insightful)
"William Lowell Putnam III says his family has identified with the cause of African American rights, and thus an asteroid named after Trayvon Martin is perfectly appropriate."
So a teenager whom a jury said was shot in self-defense (or there was no convincing evidence otherwise) is perfectly appropriate? Might as well name the asteroid "Al Sharpton".
How about a black scientist, like George Washington Carver? Or Mae Jemison or Guion Bluford, since this is space and asteroids we're talking about? Maybe a Rosa or a Frederick or a W.E.B. might have done a thing or two for civil rights and African Americans?
“As I see it, the social fairness showed to Trayvon Martin was very sadly lacking.”
Oh, I don't know, dominating the cable news cycle for months on end, hundreds of thousands of people taking selfies wearing hoodies and national black leaders/celebrities calling for a Double Jeopardy trial and/or punishment for George Zimmerman seems to show some kind of social backing.
Why don't we start enshrining every person that gets shot in a bar fight next?
Re:Y does not follow X. (Score:4, Insightful)
How about a black scientist, like George Washington Carver?
That's the best idea so far. Not so much because of his race, but because he's a scientist.
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from what I remember the kid was standing on the sidewalk
Oh, you were there, were you? Oh wait, no, you weren't. Nor were you sitting on the jury day after day listening to reams of evidence and testimony.
from what I heard from TV
FTFY.
Possible Ironic Outcome (Score:2, Interesting)
Next two asteroids: Edwards & Luna (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps these two [cnn.com] will get even bigger asteroids!
We can name some ice chunks in Saturn's belt after all of the black kids beating up [examiner.com] and killing [theblaze.com] white people over Treyvon.
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disturbing (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless of the details of the case itself, it's pretty clear that Martin was a racist (he used racial insults against Caucasians). He does not deserve to have an asteroid named after him, and if the civil rights movement picks him as a symbol, it will only hurt their cause.
IndieGoGo In 4..3..2.. (Score:2, Troll)
If these fools name some hapless piece of drifting interplanetary space debris "Trayvon" in their misguided attempt to glorify a dead, racist, drug-abusing, violent criminal thug, how long until there's an IGG funding drive for development of a "Zimmerman" missile to destroy it?
Kind of a long way to go (in multiple senses of the phrase) to get people interested in space again, isn't it?
I think these people have had far too much time on their hands for far too long.
"Space Madness" has obviously taken hold of
Other Space Object to be Named (Score:2)
From TFA (Score:3, Funny)
"When Putnam originally suggested the name to Minor Planet Center, they responded, "That's real retarded, sir."
What rights??? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or is it some other made-up rights that I'm not aware of???
It's only controversial to those that tried their best to turn it into a race thing instead of a self-defense thing. The racists that forced Florida to have a wasted trial with no real evidence for the prosecution just to appease so many racists. Those that want to ignore the evidence presented in court and play 'what if' games that don't use any facts at all but assumptions made my people who weren't even there.
Go ahead
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People aren't thinking any longer. They are reacting with emotion and parroting talking points. "Why are we in Iraq?" "Freedom!" "Because 9-1-1!" People seriously have no interest in facts or knowledge nor care to try to understand what's what and what's going on.
It has gotten past the point where I don't want to live on this planet any more. There is just no other planet to live on right now.
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It has gotten past the point where I don't want to live on this planet any more. There is just no other planet to live on right now.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. Feelings will pass eventually. Just ignore the noise and do the right thing. Karma happens.
It's ridiculous to make this political (Score:5, Insightful)
Assteroid Lindberg (Score:2)
Named for Danish film director Morten Lindberg would be cool.
Tell Them How You Feel (Score:2)
Lord Jesus Christ (Score:2, Informative)
Trayvon Martin was clearly a violent criminal. Why in the world does anyone feel sorry for that creep. He was attempting to murder Mr. Zimmerman when he was shot. Is that really hard to understand?
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Thug and a Punk (Score:2)
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Trayvon Martin referred to his intended victim with the racists epithet, 'Creepy-Ass Cracker' before attacking him. George Zimmerman defended himself from the racist. Trayvon died because he was a racist thug on drugs.
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Zimmerman should of laid down and taken his beating - cause that's what "keeping it real" means.
(I donated to zimmerman, because that could of been me)
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Zimmerman should of laid down and taken his beating - cause that's what "keeping it real" means.
(I donated to zimmerman, because that could of been me)
That happened. Another couple brave black boys beat an 88 year old WWII vet to death. Laying down and taking it is for the infirm or foolish.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/died-soldier-world-war-ii-vet-killed-beating-fend-attackers-cops-article-1.1438024 [nydailynews.com]
Oddly, Obama did't jump on TV and claim these punks looked like him.
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"Why do people keep spouting this nonsense?"
Because it's easier to repeat a lie than to accept the truth...
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Wait, what?
Trayvon Martin was literally beating Zimmerman to death. Any hit of Zimmerman's head to the pavement--witnessed by one of the prosecution's witnesses--could have been his last moment alive, without Trayvon even needing to find the gun to use against him.
The fact that you are too stupid or ignorant to recognize that is obvious in the fact that you missed the_Bionic_lemming's point: if Zimmerman did not act, then he would be dead or badly injured by a thug or "bully", completely regardless of the t
Re:not beating (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-zimmerman-moments-before-fatal-gunshot/
He saw. I'll take the victim's word when the back of his head is bloodied alongside a swollen face, and an uninvolved party corroborates the story immediately following the incident. Trayvon did not have a mark on him, so it's pretty clear who was on the bottom given the visible, physical damage to Zimmerman.
If you are willfully blind to the evidence, then that's your own fault, but it's time that you stop spreading ignorant information. You may want Trayvon to be innocent, but absolutely nothing points to it, including his own offline and online antics and the prosecution's lead witness admitting that Trayvon used racial slurs immediately before the fight.
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Trayvon was a bully actually. He was bragging in a facebook post about how he slapped a bus driver for something to the effect of looking at him wrong. When caught red handed painting graffiti, he was found with burglary tools and women's jewelry in his backpack by a school staff. Also, apparently the stuff he bought at the convenience store just before his death were for the purposes of making "Purple Drank".
Yeah, and this is the guy they want to name an asteroid after.
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He was let down by his parents for not raising him properly. He was let down by his communities lack morals. He was let down by societies glorification of "the Thug Life".
He never had a chance to become a decent man. Family, Community, Federal Government and the Press all conspired to turn him into a violent and irresponsible person who was taught to blame white males for every problem he saw.
Teaching of personal responsibility would have created a Trayvon that not only would have ne
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Posting during a break from your SEAL activities?
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I much prefer a world where you can be beaten to death, but if you fight back and save your life, the guy who was trying to kill you gets asteroids named after him and the president praising him only because of his color.
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You're free to presume that, but I think the evidence is inconclusive at best. People around a lot of guns are people who feel threatened, some are more cautious, but some react to threats with aggression. Some will avoid confrontation because of how quickly they escalate, some will escalate more readily because the last one to escalate dies. You can spin whatever narrative you want but you need actual evidence.
Re:Trayvon Martin can Life Forever (Score:4, Informative)
Gun ownership is UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Google it yourself.
Pretty simple. An armed society is a polite society.
Re:Trayvon Martin can Life Forever (Score:5, Insightful)
Smartphone ownership is UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Cat videos on Youtube are UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Justin Beiber album sales are UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Google it yourself.
Pretty simple. Looking for a rough correlation in two variables in one country is almost meaningless.
DCT tv (Score:3)
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well, my latest beef is that the dude is trying to support people that do this
Syrian Rebels behead 40 people including a 40 day old infant [alalam.ir]..
AQ vows to slaughter Christians as soon as Obama weakens Assad [raymondibrahim.com]
Syrian "Freedom Fighters" rape, [raymondibrahim.com] brutalize, and disfigure an 8 year old child..
Add these to the COUNTLESS other stories of "Rebels" and "Freedom fighters" who are roving in packs.. Capturing, sodomizing, and beheading Christians all throughout the ME and these are the people Obama wants to support. These a
Re: Why does everything (Score:3)
Kinda silly to make the claim that Obama wants to fund baby killing terrorists when there are o
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I feel like we're sinking deeper each and every time I find myself saying "We have just reached a new low in stupidity."
Re:Hope and change bitches! EAT MY SHIT!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I feel like we're sinking deeper each and every time I find myself saying "We have just reached a new low in stupidity."
The feeling is correct. It's like reading out the altitude in a free falling elevator,
you could never speak fast enough to keep pace with events...
but the direction is certain and the conclusion will be no surprise...
Re:Obviously a killer asteroid (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, let's name all of the asteroids after attempted murders who got justice. Nothing political or controversial about that.
I'm looking forward to smoking some illegal drugs, putting on bulky clothing and going out an shoplifting some stuff, then attacking the first cracker that gives me a dirty look. All the evidence of my motivation can be suppressed, and I'll get a space rock named after me too.
Wow. I hope you realize your version goes a lot further than the court verdict.
The court found that there wasn't sufficient proof that Zimmerman initiated the fight, or that he didn't have reasonable grounds to fear for his life.
That's a long way from determining that Martin, initiated the confrontation, tried to kill Zimmerman, shoplifted (first I heard of this), or was going to smoke drugs that evening (irrelevant even if true).
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There was absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman initiated the fight considering that Trayvon did not have a mark on him except the fatal gunshot wound.
All that the injuries show is that Martin was winning, and outside of Zimmerman's testimony we don't really have evidence that Martin started the fight either.
Considering that it was not until Zimmerman was being "ground pounded", quoting the prosecution witness testimony, it seems pretty obvious what happened here: Zimmerman was overzealous while following a suspicious person walking through his neighborhood, who confronted Zimmerman and then attacked him after not liking whatever response followed, if any.
Assuming that happened the response could be part of an initiation.
Had Zimmerman been looking to follow and kill a black guy, then he would have pulled his gun before the beginning of the fight, and he would have lost it after having his head repeatedly thrown against the pavement, which would have been Zimmerman's last moments alive on Earth because you do not bash someone's skull into pavement repeatedly to say hello.
Not many claim that "Zimmerman been looking to follow and kill a black guy". They claim he followed Martin for no reason, somehow instigated or didn't try to avoid the confrontation (knowing he had a gun), then shot Martin when his life wasn't really in jeopardy.
And really, especially
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And really, especially with the other people around Zimmerman wasn't in realistic danger of being killed due to the ground pounding.
Well you definitely flunked out of medical school. And even if he wasn't, permanent brain damage is reason enough. And even if that wasn't, then you still cannot say that a reasonable person would not fear for their life in that situation.
Martin was deserving of some community service and some counselling. He didn't deserve to die.
Perhaps not, but that's a risk you always take when you kick someone's ass with a sidewalk.
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Well you definitely flunked out of medical school. And even if he wasn't, permanent brain damage is reason enough. And even if that wasn't, then you still cannot say that a reasonable person would not fear for their life in that situation.
It happens but as evidenced by the lack of dead MMA fighters it's not that common. And I'm not saying that a reasonable person wouldn't fear for their life, I don't think it's a reasonable fear but reasonable people panic all the time.
Re:Obviously a killer asteroid (Score:5, Informative)
But even if those didn't exist, you cannot reasonably compare a controlled fight on a special stage with doctors and judges standing around to stop the fight if it gets out of hand with a street brawl on concrete and no one there.
I don't think it's a reasonable fear but reasonable people panic all the time.
A stranger is on top of you, bashing your head on the ground with no sign of stopping. You don't think that it's a reasonable fear that you're going to lose your life?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests [wikipedia.org]
But even if those didn't exist, you cannot reasonably compare a controlled fight on a special stage with doctors and judges standing around to stop the fight if it gets out of hand with a street brawl on concrete and no one there.
But there were bystanders around who had called the police. They very well could have stepped in if the fight got out of hand.
A stranger is on top of you, bashing your head on the ground with no sign of stopping. You don't think that it's a reasonable fear that you're going to lose your life?
Reasonable enough to be scared? Definitely.
Reasonable enough to kill them. No.
But then again I could panic and I think I'd be perfectly justified in doing so, which is why it's probably a good thing I don't carry a gun.
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But there were bystanders around who had called the police. They very well could have stepped in if the fight got out of hand.
OH REALLY? [bronxarena.org] Willing to bet your life on the kindness and willingness of strangers, especially when they don't know who is in the right?
Reasonable enough to be scared? Definitely. Reasonable enough to kill them. No.
You consider the fear that you may be killed reasonable enough to be scared, but not reasonable enough to defend yourself with the only weapon you have? I don't think that we're going to get anywhere with this: our views on self defense are clearly irreconcilable.
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OH REALLY? Willing to bet your life on the kindness and willingness of strangers, especially when they don't know who is in the right?
Actually the bystander effect doesn't apply here. It kicks in when there's a bunch of bystanders, none of whom have a clear responsibility to intervene, so none take the initiative to be the one person who steps out from the crowd. It's much different with a small handful of people.
You consider the fear that you may be killed reasonable enough to be scared, but not reasonable enough to defend yourself with the only weapon you have? I don't think that we're going to get anywhere with this: our views on self defense are clearly irreconcilable.
Maybe. We don't know how aggressive or out of control Martin really was, that goes a long way to determining if Zimmerman's fear would have been rational or just panic. But I think it's unlikely that an unarmed Zimmerman would ha
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"Perhaps not, but that's a risk you always take when you kick someone's ass with a sidewalk."
Right, and getting your ass kicked and suffering brain damage is the risk you take when you stalk someone looking for confrontation despite being told not to by the police. It doesn't give you the right to kill them though, actually scratch that, judging by the court case I guess in America it actually does.
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After all, wasn't Pluto, now no longer a planet, named after a Disney dog?
Right. And wasn't Uranus, no longer an asshole, named after a black hole?
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If they are going to name a space object after him, might I suggest the Unibomber instead...
You might as well, its consistent with the value of everything else you've said.
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Martin was a thief and a thug and was headed for bigger trouble but fortunately he was stopped before that happened.
Then who will (unfortunately) stop you before "it" happens?
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It's the next elementary particle that CERN is looking for. To find the Trayvon, they are building a next generation "Large Hadron Collider", called the "Crazy Ass Cracker" . . .
Re: (Score:2)
I did not know that the sky is property of United States.
How about Finland name some object "Aki Sirkesalo"?
Aki Sirkesalo it is!
The sky is Finnish!
So that's where it ends.