The Science of Hugo Chavez's Long Term Embalming 215
Hugh Pickens writes writes "Discover Magazine reports that Hugo Chavez will apparently get an embalming job designed to keep him looking alive for decades similar to that of Russia's Vladimir Lenin, whose body still lies in a mausoleum in Moscow's Red Square, nearly 90 years after his death. So how do you preserve a human body for decades without it turning into a pile of melted tissue? First, get to work quickly. Upon death, the human body starts decomposing immediately. The way to stop it is with formaldehyde, a preservative used for the past century, which inhibits the enzyme decomposition as well as killing bacteria. 'You pump the chemical in, and as the formaldehyde hits the cells of the body, it firms up the protein of the cell, or fixates it,' says Vernie Fountain, head of the Fountain National Academy of Professional Embalming Skills in Springfield, Mo. 'That's what makes them stiff.' With a body that will have to be on display for years, it's likely to require a top-shelf, super-strong solution. 'If I were doing Hugo Chavez, I would strengthen the solution and use more preservative product,' says Fountain. Next, get a good moisturizer. Formaldehyde preserves, but it also dries out the body. Vaseline or other moisturizers can preserve the look of skin, according to Melissa Johnson Williams, executive director of the American Society of Embalmers. Finally keep cool. Heat decomposes a body so for long term preservation, the body has to be kept at the temperature of a standard kitchen refrigerator, somewhere in the mid-40s. Lastly, if Venezuelans really want to keep Hugo Chavez around forever, like many other world figures, there's only one solution that works, according to Fountain. 'The best form of preservation is mummification.'"
Plastination (Score:2, Interesting)
They should really look into plastination.
The whole process is specifically designed to put dead people on display.
Or be a saint (Score:5, Interesting)
Incorruptible? Chavez? (Score:2)
No, I don't think so.
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Doesn't work with politicians. I mean, incorruptibility... c'mon, that's begging for tasteless jokes.
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How did it work for Popes then?
It's a list of successful frauds. The people that perpetrated them are long dead and the tourist traps are still in full swing, centuries later.
Super Cooling (Score:5, Informative)
"the body has to be kept at the temperature of a standard kitchen refrigerator, somewhere in the mid-40s."
No, store it at 27 degrees F which is -2.78 degrees C if you want to keep the meat fresh, not frozen and stop microbial action.
This is the temperature that we store fresh meat at. It is below standard refrigerator temperatures. Meat freezes at 25ÂF which is below the freezing point of water because of the salts in the blood and cellular fluid. A lot of research has been done on this - initially regarding the storage of fish for Norway's trawlers and later for the storage of pork.
For the absolute best results adjust this freezing temperature to account for the preservative solution which will likely change the freeze point downward - then stay just above that point of freezing for the meat.
There is a lot of science behind this in the meat industry that could be applied to Hugo.
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You don't want him "fresh" you want him to slowly turn to jerky rather than totally dried out crispy like King Tut.
Re:Super Cooling (Score:5, Funny)
He was jerky enough when he was alive
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You don't want him "fresh" you want him to slowly turn to jerky rather than totally dried out crispy like King Tut.
Reindeer jerky I've done. Likewise 'gator and 'roo.
But... No, just No.
Irradiation ? (Score:2)
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Don't worry, radiation probably won't bring him back to life.
Preserved To Show Who Took over $100 Billion... (Score:4, Insightful)
And gave it away to the likes of Cuba and Bolivia and Iran for influence, while the citizens who elected Hugo Chavez received no benefit and the petro industry in Venezuela degraded due to lack of upgrades.
Re:Preserved To Show Who Took over $100 Billion... (Score:5, Insightful)
The petrol industry pays for their OWN upgrades... What Chavez did was increase the amount of rent the country charged to pump its oil... So the private industry retaliates by dragging their feet causing delays.
Remember said industry tried to violate the laws of the country and depose him... They FAILED, do he has no reason to play fair and not convert his country to be as anti-budiness as possible.
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In the same way that Chavez violated the laws of the country and attempted a coup of a lawfully elected government and failed at it. Oh the irony...
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Less profit is not a loss. Dickhead.
Did you vote for McCain/Palin in 2008? Cuz you do know that Pali
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"while the citizens who elected Hugo Chavez received no benefit"
They disagree.
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The voices in my head used to agree, but no longer.
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A. This was done openly.
B. The guy was popular and never lost an election.
Maybe the citizens of his country value different things to the citizens of your country. Which I can see might be a problem if one of the things valued in your country is telling everyone else what they should value.
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How can the people support or oppose Chavez's policies if they don't even know what he's doing?
Well if they watched the privately owned media in Venezuela, they will certainly have no idea what he was doing. The hugely powerful privately owned media spent most of the time writing stories about how he is insane or a criminal. It was the private media that took an active part in the coup attempt against Chavez in 2002. There was plenty of incredibly critical coverage of Chavez in Venezuela, make no mistake about that.
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However, Venezuela doesn't have freedom of speech.
And what is your source for that?
I understand there are many venezuelian medias opposing the governement, and I wonder who managed to make you believe such a blatant fallacy.
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FYI there is news critical of major corporate transnationals in the USA, too. Don't be so stupid as to believe that criticism is the same as free speech.
Re:Preserved To Show Who Took over $100 Billion... (Score:5, Informative)
Umh...
Others have already questioned your saying. Yes, some years ago he cancelled a critical TV chain's title of concession (permit to transmit on air). That is, however, within his legal power, and at least in many other countries, I know of similar facts. But printed media, radio and TV can (and do) strongly oppose the government.
There are several differences and important points:
That means that, yes, you have to be aligned with The Party (as in the USA you need to be aligned with Either of The Two Parties), and if you want to go up, you have to be a great politician (just as it stands in our current pseudo-democracies).
Yes, for the people at large, getting an issue pushed up to the President was incredibly hard. But it is not perfect (although much better, yes) for us today.
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Reports Without Borders [rsf.org] explains some of the problems with Venezuelan freedom of the press. If you don't have freedom of speech, then you can't have a good democracy.
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That's not even a link to an article. That's a link a page of articles tagged Venezuela.
But, lets go ahead and say RWB has some articles on Chavez, Venezuela, and the press. Do they mention the fact that some of those media outlets "repressed" by Chavez openly backed coup attempts against him?
What would have been the reaction here in the Unit
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Also, you CAN have freedom and food at the same time. It happens.
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But they don't need to preserve him forever. (Score:2, Funny)
Until the current "left wing" populist government falls will suffice. The "Right" will promptly bury him. Then when the revolution comes again the "Left" can dig him up and put him back on display, nicely (or nastily) mummified.
Perhaps they should build a pyramid...
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Embalming, shudder (Score:5, Interesting)
In high school the essay Behind the Formaldehyde Curtain [hartlandhighschool.us] made a big impression on me; embalming was described as really creepy and artificial, which I suppose it is in any instance, but do they really need to circulate three to six gallons of dyed and perfumed solution of formaldehyde, glycerin, borax, phenol, alcohol and water through the stiff? It was much like when I found out that "milk" on the breakfast cereal on TV was actually glue. We're being scammed! Sort of.
Dumping all that junk into the ground doesn't seem very good for the environment, either - I imagine in the years since (late 60s) the essay was published a bit of attention has been paid to making embalming a bit less toxic - or was that not an issue in the first place? At any rate, cremation for me, thank you - although after losing both parents I've found out that isn't cheap, either.
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That's why you are buried in a steel box, inside a waterproof concrete box... So you don't leech into the soil
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Since when are coffins made of steel?
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No actually I haven't browsed the coffin offerings. Steel still rusts so unless you mean stainless steel...
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Lot's of steel coffins in the middle price range. They compete with wood.
Below that is Fiberglass, then (only to hold the stiff until cremation) fiberboard, then cardboard. You don't really want to know what a cardboard box to burn the body in costs.
Above it is bronze, then unobtainium, then they start to get really expensive.
If you want to be buried the way to go is request the Jewish package. They have specific rules. Pine box with holes already drilled in, no embalming. Legal in all 50 states and
Re:Embalming, shudder (Score:5, Interesting)
Post-death processing is heavily regulated in most states, and like most regulation it tends to drive up prices and limit entry into the field. It is a splendid example of Fascism. My experience is in Connecticut: you can't process the estate to hand out inheritances until you have a death certificate. Only funeral homes can originate death certificates.
Disposing of a corpse should probably cost about $200. In Connecticut, it's over $6000 (year 2009).
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Actually, no it isn't. In fact it has nothing to do with fascism whatsoever. It might, however, be an example of regulatory capture.
Do you just use words like "fascism" randomly with no understanding whatsoever of their meaning?
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Do you just use words like "fascism" randomly with no understanding whatsoever of their meaning?
Link [econlib.org] for the GP.
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I decided long ago that after I no longer need my body I'll hand it to some med students. Maybe they can learn something from my mistakes.
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Anyway, need to? Of course not. But some people find seeing the deceased one last time comforting. Having it the very next day isn't feasible, and having an obviously rotting corpse is not comforting.
I've never been to a funeral where an open casket did anything besides creep me out. Two of t
I've seen Lenin (Score:2)
And he looked plastic/waxy to me. So he may be preserved .. but lifelike only goes so far.
Why Try So Hard? (Score:2)
Just make a really good wax head and a fake body, like Madame Tusseau's. Seal the fake up in a thick glass coffin and who will be able to tell the difference?
I started the embalming process years ago (Score:5, Funny)
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You're a fucking fire hazard.
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Eat more convenience store food; beef jerky, cookies, cakes etc.
Have they considered plastination? (Score:4, Interesting)
I find this rather nauseous... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been lucky enough to have travelled around the world, including Moscow and Peking.
Never felt the need to visit the chemically-preserved remains of "great" men there.
Can anybody please cite me a truly humane, visionary leader who was embalmed in modern times, for public display?
How about "despots"?
Candidates should include Tito and Ataturk?
Nope, not one. They did not need it, and neither did the population they left behind.
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Good old Jeremy Bentham [ucl.ac.uk] makes an entertaining visit...
Re:I find this rather nauseous... (Score:4, Funny)
Good old Jeremy Bentham [ucl.ac.uk] makes an entertaining visit...
But is it utilitarian?
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Is visiting any relic, site, or exhibit utilitarian?
(The answer is, of course: Perhaps. An architect might study architecture in person while abroad, a painter might find some utility in seeing some works in person, and an embalmer might find utility in viewing a guy who has been dead for decades.)
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Neither did Lenin. IIRC it was Stalin's idea to put him on display.
Hey, religions need a god. And those Christians only got a corps on a stick, we have ours in a preserving jar!
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Chavez has done a lot of good for his country and for getting Latin America out from under the thumb of US domination, he was loved by many, but yes embalming seems a bit over the top, I can see no reason to do this. Keep the spirit of what he was trying to achieve alive, this will be a much better way to honor his memory than by putting his body on display.
Oh and for anyone interested in an in-depth and more balanced story about Chavez than the sound-byte propaganda put out by the mainstream media, read th [thenation.com]
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Ah yes, the "murder-crazed totalitarians" Greg Grandin, NYU professor of history, pulitzer prize finalist, Yale PhD, and Amy Goodman, award-winning investigative journalist, arguably the best and most principled American investigative journalist at least I know of... Please, get a brain and use it, it's a powerful tool used correctly, but it requires development of some critical thinking skills, you won't get this by blindly swallowing anything Fox News tells you.
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I watch 'Democracy Now' as opposition research. They are clearly disassociated from reality so I like to keep an eye on how they've twisted their thinking this week.
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Nine words too many.
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I suppose someone will say, "Ghandi", but even that's probably a load of shit.
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It ain't all that different from having their likeness carved as a statue or even naming an airport or highway after the person. It is the same instinct at work. I think they are all excessive though.
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Precisely!!! He claimed to be a 'Bolivarian' Socialist, whatever that means. Did his self-proclaimed hero, Simon Bolivar, feel the need to do that? Then why did he?
At any rate, if he felt the need to be embalmed, his successors could get their Russian friends to send them to Mars, where the temperature is pretty much fixed, have a TV camera sent attached to it, and have a 24/7 broadcast like the one in Baghdad after the ouster of Saddam. Those so inclined can turn on their channels to it, and watch it
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It's the fossilized... well, let's say the rest of the corpse is still under ground.
Here's hoping (Score:5, Funny)
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After they have him stuffed they fit him with animatronics so he'll jump up every so often to scare the shit out of tourists.
Didn't they do that with Ronald Reagan?
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Only in Ronnie's case, they did it before he was inaugurated.
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After they have him stuffed they fit him with animatronics so he'll jump up every so often to scare the shit out of tourists.
They would need a bobsled ride going through the mausoleum so that he could jump out as the trains go by. I can hear it now, "Permanecer sentados por favor".
One word (Score:2)
Taxidermy!
to correct the article... (Score:2)
Formaldehyde is a gas a room temperature. The substance used in labs and embalming is formalin, a room temperature liquid of water and formaldehyde.
For a geek site, you should get these sort of things right to start with.
Put him in a tank ... (Score:2)
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Does it have to be one or the other?
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Nice
Re:Call me skeptical (Score:5, Funny)
But I highly doubt they're going to be able to do this properly.
I doubt their embalming job would last a year.
They just don't strike me as the kind of people who can pull it off.
Check out the web site for "Fountain National Academy of Professional Embalming Skills". If these guys do embalming with the same professionalism they utilize with web site creation, they'd get better results if they stuck Chavez in a blender.
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Well, it certainly looks like it's been in the same form for a long time, so I'd say we have a winner.
Re:Call me skeptical (Score:4, Interesting)
They are asking Russians to do it, so Chaves will be ok :)
I would love to live in a world where all presidents or whatever called heads of a state are embalmed and stored in a mausoleums for the amusement of the next generations.
What somewhat surprises me is that they don't get the wacky plastination [bodyworlds.com] guy in on the project. The actual product isn't really a preserved body in any useful sense(as the name suggests, the original tissue is largely replaced by polymers); but the replacement occurs down to impressively tiny details, the results look fantastic, and they last nobody-knows-how-long-but-a-long-time under normal indoor conditions.
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My suggestion; only leave the skin so people can have a good look inside on how 'red' he actually was
Besides, I think that he doesn't really fit in with men like Mao and Lenin who actually got stuff done. He was anti-american, but that's about it, he didnt really do any paradigm-shiftin
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Maybe this is the reason he is not doing the plastination:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/world/europe/06corpses.html?_r=0
<Quote> But Mr. Hagens, who turns 66 on Jan. 10, has told the German tabloid Bild that he is suffering from Parkinson’s disease and that his wife 'will plastinate my body,' and 'my plastinated corpse will then stand in a welcoming pose at the entrance of my exhibition.' A man who has always loved publicity and controversy, Mr. Hagens gave no indication of how long h
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They can not do the plastination.... A while ago chavez expeled the "Bodies revealed" expo from venezuela, and denounced it as inmoral.
Embalming him using that procedure would be an about face that his supporters could not aford...
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A while ago chavez expeled the "Bodies revealed" expo from venezuela, and denounced it as inmoral.
If that was about the time when the reports came out that the bodies were those of executed Chinese political prisoners then maybe he wasn't so crazy. This one time.
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Ironically, in 2009 Chavez ordered to confiscate one of these body exhibitions that was on tour in Caracas, because he said it was immoral to put unsepulchered bodies on display.
http://news.sky.com/story/676071/chavez-blocks-venezuela-dead-body-art-show [sky.com]
In case you understand Spanish, you can hear it from the man himself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2MfLT-U2qo [youtube.com]
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His most ardent followers are downright fanatical. For everyone else, like or not the guy was the epicenter of the government and many announcements were made amid his endless prattle. Supporters were expecting new handouts, and detractors feared new expropriations, threats and draconian abuse of power. I knew that I'd have a full report on the web the day after, tops.
Re: Call me skeptical (Score:2)
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How much of 'Lenin's body' is now wax? By total weight and surface area please.
They're not saying. A assume the numbers are something like 30%/100%
Keeping him dead's easier than keeping him alive (Score:2)
Of course, we could find that Venezuela has been developing zombie technology, and he could hang around undead for a while.
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Write to Congress, a few of them people there look like they already perfected the art.
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Sorry to tell you this, but now that Jesse and Strom are gone, that joke is, too.
Stallman on Chavez (Score:2)
I visited Stallman's site to see what he had to say on the passing of his comrade Chavez, and it didn't disappoint. [stallman.org] But what he cited was a hoot - blaming Venezuela for global warming, er, heating, due to them exporting their oil [guardian.co.uk].
Only problem - Chavez too needed money, and Stallman never explained to him how he too could be better off by ending Venezuela's oil exports and selling free, sorry, libre software instead. Now, if only Stallman could put together an online petition suggesting that Chavez's bod
Re:uh oh (Score:5, Informative)
That word [wikipedia.org], I don't think it means what you think it means...
Re:uh oh (Score:4, Insightful)
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As opposed to "communist", which has nothing but warm fuzzy connotations? But yeah, Obamacare is fascism, straight up. Forcing citizenry to buy junk products from a bloodsucking industry...and there's that whole continuation of the Unitary Executive thing....
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I was thinking the same. If they need a fridge to get it to the mid-40s, Venezuela is a hotter place than I originally thought.
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The only reason capitalists are more efficient at redistributing money is simple self interest. If I redistribute everything to myself, well, DUH, of course I strive for efficiency!
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This rises a question: how to model our economics from now on? After all, socialism failed. So did capitalism. So is there any model that gives Joe Average a reasonable standard of living - including financial security - and doesn't result in economic meltdowns every few years?