NASA's First New Spacesuit In 20 Years Is Its Own Airlock 164
Zothecula writes "The current U.S. space suit used by NASA is a dinosaur. Designed in 1992, it was only ever intended to be used by crews aboard the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station (ISS). That may have been good enough in the days of 14 kps modems, but with eyes turning increasingly toward missions to the Moon, Mars and the asteroids, space explorers need something better. That's why NASA is designing its first new suit in twenty years. Developed by NASA's Advanced Exploration Systems (AES), the Z-1 prototype space suit currently undergoing vacuum testing at the Johnson Space Center is a wearable laboratory of new technology. And it's a hatchback."
Lime green, FTW! (Score:2, Funny)
Um.... FTW!
yeah.
Re:Disney IP, FTW! (Score:1)
I smell a lawsuit.
Re:Disney IP, FTW! (Score:5, Funny)
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Actually you cannot trademark colors.
Besides I think Disney/Pixar will be rather honored that the modern spacesuit will try to resemble their spaceman!
Like a certain Tim Allen character? (Score:3)
Oh, wrong movie...
"To Infinity... And Beyond!"
To infinity.... (Score:5, Funny)
and beyond!
Re:To infinity.... (Score:5, Informative)
* Green on the chest piece
* Green at the elbows
* Green around the crotch
* Green around the hands
* Bubble dome
It's just missing the decals and wings.
Just for comparison:
NASA [gizmag.com]
Pixar [wikimedia.org]
Re:To infinity.... (Score:5, Funny)
And has a "rear entry panel". Woody, are you listening?
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snide remark.. (Score:5, Insightful)
20 years old and it is a dinosaur? You young'ins are obsessed with the Shiny.
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That's only around, what, 1/10th of your lifespan, right? I hear ya. Not sure if you can hear me, though.
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I'm 60, but when it comes to tech, 20 years IS the stone age. Twenty years ago you were running DOS on a 486. Twenty years ago, cell phones were 4 years old and only rich people had them. Twenty years ago there were no DVDs, let alone Blu-rays.
Did your car have ABS and air bags 20 years ago? Mine didn't.
Throwing away tech because it's old is dumb (I've written about this, the link is a bit dated) [kuro5hin.org], but when a new technology is superior to the old technology (disk brakes rather than drum brakes) the old tech
Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacuum? (Score:5, Interesting)
Leaving a spacesuit docked on a ship and now having nothing but the structural integrity of that suit between a crew and hard vacuum doesn't sound like a particularly bright idea.
Re:Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacu (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't seem that way. These suits can act a higher pressure which allows them to dock to the spacecraft in the first place. So they must be sturdier.
Also, it's not like when the suit leaves that the ship is exposed to space. There must be an additional "hatch" that is closed around the suit opening to allow it to leave.
So when docked you have the structural integrity of the suit itself (life support backpack plus suit plus helmet) and the structural integrity of the "hatch" that is not mentioned.
It's not a full blown traditional airlock because there is not a separate space that has to have the pressure equalized before you can enter the space craft. In a way it is a mini-airlock because you will still need to equalize that small space in between the hatch and the suit.
The greatest advantage to this is speed. No pre-breathing and cycle time in a big airlock. You could be out in space in minutes it sounds like, or less.
Re:Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacu (Score:5, Insightful)
The greatest advantage to this is speed. No pre-breathing and cycle time in a big airlock. You could be out in space in minutes it sounds like, or less.
The other great advantage is that one person should be able to put on their own suit - now, it takes substantial help from a partner.
Re:Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacu (Score:5, Insightful)
You also avoid tracking anything that gets onto the suit into the vehicle with these things. The Apollo crews can tell you how big a deal that is for a mission of any duration, and it looks like Mars dust is if anything worse.
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That's likely one of the prime design factors - how to avoid contamination.
You'll still have the hatchback hatch exposed, but that would be much smaller and can probably be made smoother specifically to aid in cleaning. You might even be able to coat it with a film prior to disembarkment that, on coming back in, could be peeled off and processed.
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They're fines, not dust! Calling fines dust is like calling dust gravel!
Re:Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacu (Score:5, Informative)
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No, the greatest advantage is that you can be sure the thing is air tight *before* anybody gets in to it. Checking for damage just became a whole lot safer!
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Well... yes. That is a pretty big advantage there.
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I'd be shocked if there weren't also a ship-interior cover for the hatch.
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I'd be shocked if there weren't also a ship-interior cover for the hatch.
I believe that the rear hatch can be closed while it is docked..
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That's a common myth, the crew cabin was considerably sturdier since it was a pressure vessel keeping the atmosphere inside the crew cabin. What was "tinfoil" were the mylar thermal covers on the outside of the descent stage.
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"oil-canning" (that sound) was normal, and the LEMs walls did it. It costs an automaker a fortune to prevent "oil-canning" on hoods and hatches, it wasn't a concern on the LEM.
The walls were so thin that workers damaged them (even holed them) with their safety shoes. After delays due to the repairs, it became a work-order to remove shoes when working inside the nearly finished LEMs. The cover of the ascent engine was really vulnerable. IIRC it was the first production use of chemically-etched sheet meta
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Re:Only suit fabric protecting crew from hard vacu (Score:5, Informative)
The atmosphere inside was pure oxygen at 0.2 bar, allowing the walls of the LEM to be very thin. Still, more like an oil drum than like tinfoil.
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I seem to remember reading/hearing that the LEM walls were on the order of soda-can thickness, or perhaps more like double that. We're talking order-of-magnitude here, it wasn't oildrum-thick, for instance. Someone else talked of the "ping" or "bong" sound/feeling when they pressurized it, and that squares with my source. In addition, a good pocket knife could have cut through the walls.
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I seem to remember reading/hearing that the LEM walls were on the order of soda-can thickness
I knew I should have used scare quotes for "tinfoil" :)
Soda-can thickness is a good description of how I imagined it. Thick enough that it doesn't tear when it flexes but thin enough to rupture if you fell against it the wrong way.
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holy shit you're right. lucky you caught that or the scientists at NASA's Advanced Exploration Systems might've had a large problem on their hands.
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Bringing all the crap from outside inside isn't such a good idea either. The moon dust issues from all of the Lunar landings was a real eye-opener, and a serious problem they never did solve. That could easily have killed an entire crew.
Toad
Why even bother... (Score:4, Insightful)
As much as I value the space program, I am questioning the need for designing a new space suit.
Congress constantly targets NASA for budget cuts...
With its limited budget NASA seems more interesting in robotic flights instead of manned flights. They seem to be using more things like the Mars Rover.
We do not even have a space fleet right now. The shuttles have been mothballed and sold off as museum pieces and we now send people to the space station by buying them passage on soviet vessels launched out of Kazakhstan.
The future of manned space flight seems to be private industry in the US. How come NASA is spending the money designing suits instead of the future space companies?
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I bet the suit started being designed 5 or 10 years ago when the situation right now seemed impossible. The project is finally finished since no one terminated it early. It happens especially in government agencies where the department would be canned once the project ends.
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The space suit is actually vital
A lot of what is limiting astronauts now is the amount of things they can do. Look at NASA's broadcast on repairs taking things out putting things in, things anybody can do.
The suit also needs people to teach them how to put on. Desperate advancements are needed.
Not to mention much needed improvements in dexterity which at first glance it does provide.
Im quite surprised though they havent selected live suits(suits that mould to the body), which are available now
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Im quite surprised though they havent selected live suits(suits that mould to the body), which are available now
I'm not. Contamination is much less of a problem here - critical if you're going to be playing around in the dirt.
With these things, it's only the back hatch surface that needs be cleaned/processed. With the form-fitting suits you are thinking of, the whole thing needs to be handled.
Plus, it looks like you can suit up in these much quicker. Each suit might well be usable as a life pod, if you will - especially if you can close it up but keep your environmentals from the main vehicle (just because the cabin
The USA definition of privitizing means... (Score:3, Insightful)
...the government pays 3 times as much for private business to provide half the service that was being provided, and a few Anglo-Saxon guys pocket the rest of the cash.
Re:The USA definition of privitizing means... (Score:5, Funny)
a few Anglo-Saxon guys pocket the rest of the cash.
Oh, them. That's the Beowulf cluster you've heard tell of.
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That's how ALL privatizing works.
Re:Why even bother... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because governments spend money to make things that do not generate profit. Thats one of the reason FOR a government. It is not a business. It is for the public good. This space suit will not generate money, it will generate science. Knowledge. You know, things that we are beneficial for mankind, yet make no money on their own. A corporation would be sued by its share holders for doing something like that. Unless it had a clear profit motive.
The "space companies" will be sending satellites into orbit (or tourists), not going to Mars. They will be in it for the money. When WE, as a PEOPLE, want to go to another planet, we need a government to do it.
Re:Why even bother... (Score:5, Insightful)
Congress constantly targets NASA for budget cuts...
Congress cuts NASA's budget when the money is not being spent in enough Congressional Districts. NASA isn't about space to Congress. To them it is about getting federal money spent where it helps them get re-elected.
So if the new space suit is constructed of components built in all 435 Congressional Districts, the budget for the suit will not be cut. Really simple, isn't it?
The 1st Congressional District of New Jersey, Camden County, gets to make the middle finger of the right hand! Youse guys gotta prowblem wid dat?
Depressing, isn't it... (Score:2)
That is more or less the first thought that I had. "What the heck does NASA need with a spacesuit?"
They are not even able to a man into space anymore.
I have to say, growing up, I never imagined that there would be a day when the USA was no longer able to go into space. That we must buy passage from my childhoods boogieman. I always thought that surely, by the time I am a grown man, the average person would be able to go into space.
On the other hand, maybe it is better that NASA is out of the picture. It doe
Re:Depressing, isn't it... (Score:5, Interesting)
"It does seem that the few private companies are making more progress in 5 years than NASA can in 15"
Private companies are not even at Gemini level; that's about NASA's 45 years ago, so I'd say you are a bit overenthusiastic, don't you think so?
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Private companies are not even at Gemini level; that's about NASA's 45 years ago, so I'd say you are a bit overenthusiastic, don't you think so?
To be fair, I don't think NASA is at that level anymore, either.
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John Carmack (id software, armadillo aerospace) was pointing out that NASA was shipping their rocket scientists out to Armadillo Aerospace's test lab* to see what rockets actually look like, because NASA hasn't actually done any research or construction of their own in so long, they have nothing to train their incoming scientists with.
*by test lab, I mean a hangar in the middle of a grassy field, but hey, it has rockets in there, so call it what you will
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I am not going to doubt his word, so it presumably happened, but it is also bullshit. NASA has plenty of rocket research going on. Right now, for example, NASA is testing the J2X rocket for the SLS [nasa.gov] at Stennis. If you look at the link, you will see considerably better facilities than a hanger in a field.
NASA is a big organization, with lots of parts, and it is certainly conceivable that some center sent somebody inexperienced to see what was going on at Armadillo, but if those were real rocket people, I sus
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John Carmack gives a talk every year after the keynote at quakecon about what's going on at Armadillo Aerospace. His annual talks are on youtube, and if I run out of things to do at work later, I'll find you the link.
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On the other hand, maybe it is better that NASA is out of the picture. It does seem that the few private companies are making more progress in 5 years than NASA can in 15.
It is precisely because of that right wing knee-jerk "government is bad, business is good" reaction that the US doesn't have an up to date space programme.
Private companies may be able to get a few rich tourists into space, that's just a sideshow.
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It is precisely because of that right wing knee-jerk "government is bad, business is good" reaction that the US doesn't have an up to date space programme.
Private companies may be able to get a few rich tourists into space, that's just a sideshow.
What the hell are you on about? How is what I said a knee jerk reaction? Did you even read my post. I start the post by saying how depressing it is that NASA is in such a poor state. That seems to indicate that I LIKE NASA and want them to go into space.
And, I said they have made more PROGRESS than NASA had in 15 years. I did NOT say that they were ahead of NASA. There is a difference. Many of these private firms were starting from scratch. Well, ok with a lot of knowledge gotten from NASA.
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That isn't so much a NASA problem as it is a Congress problem. Everything takes 15 years and costs 3 times what it should because Congress wants it that way. That is what happens when you have to please 535 politicians.
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Consider that any mission has a set amount of time it can function in. That time has a huge amount of cost associated with it. So if you can save 15 minutes of time for a person to don a spacesuit on a spaceflight you're likely saving a huge amount of money. The same if the suit's newer mobility allows for in space work to be done 10% faster.
Buzz Lightyear (Score:2, Funny)
NASA outsourced this particular suit design to Hasbro, who then produced it under a license from Disney/Pixar.
Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Meh. (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, where do you put your testicles? It's all well and good to show a woman in the suit, but I wouldnt want mechanical counter-pressure on my block and tackle.
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Another problem with the suit is that your body shape changes dramatically during long-duration microgravity. Astonauts will show up at Mars with significantly skinnier legs and bulkier torsos than they had on Earth.
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N00b (Score:4, Funny)
14.4k
Re:N00b (Score:5, Interesting)
56k modems in the US are/were limited by FCC regs to about 53k [lowendmac.com].
From this url [2fords.net]:
The chilling news came just days before U.S. Robotics shipped its x2 modems: the FCC won't let modems transfer data at a rate faster than 53 kbps. The legal snafu has to do with a long-standing FCC regulation known as Part 68, which was never intended to affect modems. The problem is that if you send too much power through the phone line, your conversation can get loud enough to creep into neighboring lines. This is called crosstalk, and Part 68 was meant to prevent it. But to reach 56 kbps, the new modems must send more power down the line.
Soviets (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, Orlan is rear entry (and doesn't require pre-breathing) but there is none of the docking capability. They don't emphasize it that much, but that is actually a pretty big deal for planetary operation where it's just about the perfect solution to dust issues.
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Been there, done that. (Score:1)
Well... in comic form anyway.
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1000/fv00981.htm
Movies (Score:3)
And looks surprisingly like... (Score:2)
Drawings in speculative fiction from the fifties.
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Except lower resolution. These pictures look like they came from an older camera-phone.
Look at the picture of the article author (Score:1)
0.0
What about compatibility? (Score:1)
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Is any private space company working on EVA? Satellites and space tourism don't seem to lend themselves to space-walks...
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ground-side is not better due to lag and going (Score:2)
ground-side is not better due to lag and more you get away from the earth the high the lag times get.
Logic consequence (Score:3)
Now they have a new space suite, they must travel ;-).
And the non-sequitur of the month award goes to... (Score:2)
That may have been good enough in the days of 14 kps modems
...but now we need spacesuits with ADSL?
2 things (Score:4, Interesting)
1. wasnt this on Top Gear last year? when james may drove around the lunar rover they're never going to actually use? pretty sure it was.
2. the phrase 'rear entry spacesuit' is fucking hiLARious.
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Yeah, I thought the same - and yes it was. However, I think that was just a demo sort of thing, and not real. I guess they've actually done the science to make it work for real this time.
I have to say, this is a good thing - it's something like 4 hours of you and your buddy squeezing you into the current suits, and then several hours packed into an airlock with your tools and whatnot. Being able to step into the suit, and maybe even zip it up yourself (or with help), and then have them slam the door shut be
old idea? (Score:5, Interesting)
It made me think of the film Andromeda Strain (1969), but while googlising for a picture, I found this 1954 image from a nuclear facility.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/tail-of-hot-suit-serves-as-entrance/ [modernmechanix.com]
Yes, these have 'tails', but the climbing-in-through-the-back part is there.
Kid of off topic but... (Score:2)
That author's photo at the end is bloody terrifying...
Back on topic... I wonder what the mechanisms are for the new CO2 scrubbers.
Now if we just had our own space program... (Score:2)
This is an old idea. I believe the old Apollo missions' suits were designed this way to prevent the fine (and very sharp) dust of the moon from contaminating the lunar module. Can't believe we've regressed so far.
Get a pod; space suits are a publicity stunt (Score:2)
http://code.google.com/p/openvirgle/wiki/SpacePod [google.com] People need space pods instead (like in 2001). Why would anyone want to put on a space suit in space? If you need something in an emergency, NASA has a big bag people can go into developed for the shuttle. If you need to go into a confined space, use a tele-operated small robot. Can anyone cite any reason to put a person in a "space suit" suit other than for generating "people in space" publicity? Shirt-sleeve pods are also much more comfortable than space s
Re:Ugly..... (Score:5, Funny)
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Green would be easier to spot on the moon that white IMO.
Red might have issues on mars in a similar fashion.
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Green and UGLY and looks like a worm Going to be joke fodder
Nobody cares what the damn thing looks like; it's meant to protect, not impress.
I hear you, but did they have to make it look like the hunchback of Notre-dame
Re:Ugly..... (Score:5, Funny)
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I'll bet you're an Apple user! Who cares what a tool looks like?
Re:Ugly..... (Score:4, Funny)
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But still someone actually CHOSE to make it the color lime green, while there are so many other colors!
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The l
Re:Ugly..... (Score:5, Funny)
Manned space exploration isn't funded because we need to. It is funded because we want to. It is basically a fancier version of the Blue Angels. Mars rovers can look as unaesthetic as you want. But an astronaut, who theoretically could be fighting giant octopuses and pirates in space needs to look right. NASA should really talk to Blizzard or Bioware about how to make astronauts look like Space Marines.
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NASA should really talk to Blizzard or Bioware about how to make astronauts look like Space Marines.
I dunno about that, it looks like they're already well on their way towards that.
Slap a large drill on the hand, and NASA could have their astronauts dressed like Big Daddys.
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"Man has no fashion sense and if he can get away wearing the same shirt everyday, he will. ;)"
Indeed, I'm he, I order 25 black shirts every couple of months and hence I always know what to wear, while my wife struggles each evening what to wear the next day.
I can do without that.
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I order 25 black shirts every couple of months and hence I always know what to wear
I knew Steve Jobs wasn't dead!
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I order 25 black shirts every couple of months and hence I always know what to wear
You are aware that there are things called washing machines? You don't actually need to wear clothes until they smell then throw them away.
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Indeed, I'm he, I order 25 black shirts every couple of months and hence I always know what to wear, while my wife struggles each evening what to wear the next day.
You don't really have a wife, do you?