Debate Simmers Over Science of Food Pairing 111
carmendrahl writes "Why do foods taste good together? Scientists aren't anywhere near figuring it out, but that hasn't stopped one popular idea from spawning a company dedicated to discovering avant-garde new pairings. The idea, called flavor-pairing theory, says that if foods share a key odor molecule, they'll pair well. But some scientists say the idea can't explain all cuisines, and another contends his work with tomato flavor (abstract) shows that flavor pairing is 'a gimmick by a chef who is practicing biology without a license.'"
oblig (Score:5, Funny)
-- Mitch Hedberg
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But now I'm sad, cause I miss him so much.
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Same. I'm now eating an apple with potato chips as a tribute or something :) And it tastes much better than I expected, too.
Mitch Hedberg said some quite profound stuff IMHO. For example, "I once saw a human pyramid. It was totally unneccessary." to me is up there with, you know, philosophy and political commentary and shit. RIP and thanks for all the fish, obviously.
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>> philosophy and political commentary and shit
Speaking of things that pair together...
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That actually sounds like an idea I'd try. Do you mix any butter in with the mashed potatoes, or just plain? How thin do you spread the potatoes over the pizza? Do you use any garlic or onion powder/salt in the potatoes. If it's a meat pizza, do you think a few drops of GravyMaster in the potatoes would enhance the flavor? /. lol
I can't believe I'm talking recipes on
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Thanks. My wife and I do this thing we call "experimental cooking," where we deviate from the common, just as you are doing. I believe this may become one of those experiments. The nifty thing is the wife will occasionally make home made pizza, so now I can see all kinds of fun with playing with that. :D
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Food Pairing not really a problem... (Score:2)
They always wondered why spaghetti and french fries sounded good to me late night in college....
Re:Food Pairing not really a problem... (Score:5, Funny)
That still sounds great to me. Or putting salad not next to, but ON the spaghetti. YUM! The best meals I can only eat in solitude, society just doesn't understand.
Re:Food Pairing not really a problem... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a plate turner...not quite as bad as when I was young..but I just don't like my foods mixed.
When I'd eat..I'd have multiple things on my plate..but I'd eat all of one thing..finish is, then often, literally turn the plate to eat the next thing in succession (I don't recall if always clockwise or counter clockwise or if there was a pattern...likely just the next best thing)...eat that..then turn.....etc.
As a kid, my favorite thing, was those plates that had compartments..so that one food didn't touch the other food.
Hence, in my example above..of late nights on weekends in college...going to Denny's I'd order spaghetti and meatballs or something...and a side of fries, things that don't generally pair...but was ok for me, since I'd eat all the spaghetti...then, turn my attention to the fries.
I find I don't usually drink and eat at the same time, even to this day. I don't wash my food down.
For years, i've been trying to make a concerted effort to change this at least for wine...so I can do like most say, and enjoy a good wine paired with a meal. I used to get pissed when eating with others...I'd drink a bit of wine that came before the meal...but during the meal, I'd stop drinking...and when the meal was over, since the others hadn't stopped drinking and eating together...the wine often was gone....
While I'm not as bad as I used to be...if I don't think about it...I still do the one food at a time thing to a great extent.
I love to cook, but one of my downfalls is that I've not grown up learning what foods do go well together when planning menus for others. To me, I'm just usually concerned about each individual dish's flavor...but not how they integrate into a meal...when enjoyed by others that eat a bit of this and a bit of that all through the meal.
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Oh. I'm the exact opposite.
Not drinking (anything, I don't mean alcohol) while eating is the smart thing to do though... be glad it's not a habit you have to drop :) Maybe just slip a bottle under the table while nobody is looking, then notice it after the meal is over? ^^
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The way I see it, of you're hungry, you need something, nutrients, calories, whatever. So eat that, and slow enough because blood sugar takes a while to rise... but if you drink while doing that, you think you're done eating, when you're actually not, if you know what I mean?
Dunno, I should have worded it differently, it's not an authoritative medical thing. But when I was little, when I eat over at the neighbours, they didn't drank at all while eating, and the lady was actually offended by the idea (becaus
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I know. But that's kinda the reason I don't like doing it... but then again overeating isn't my problem, I eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm not, so if I drink while eating, I kinda eat too little. I also don't crave that "full" feeling at all.. "not empty" is fine IMHO... and being slightly full can make your tummy sing! But FULL to me sounds like like "bleugh, I need to lie down".
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I had a doctor explain to me long ago that drinking with a meal was not as healthy, though with medical knowledge changing so often I'm not sure his point would still be considered valid. The reason was that Saliva begins the digestive processes. Drinking reduces the body's need to create saliva, so your food is less digested as it moves to the stomach. This is of course assuming you chew the recommended 20-28 times per bite of food to ensure saliva permeates as much of the food as possible.
I'm with you
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Interesting..I'd heard that before, but never have investigated it.
I suppose that not drinking while eating....is a large contributing factor, to me NOT eating baked/roasted turkey for Thanksgiving. No matter where I've had it...and how 'moist' everyone claimed it was..to me, it was like chewing cardboard.
That's why at Tday, for years...I always to Standing Rib Roast.
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Agreed. I have only ever rarely had turkey dinner that didn't need to be covered in gravy to simulate the moistness that it should have had to begin with, despite fellow diner's claims to the contrary.
Did you also get the thing where if you don't put much on your plate, or don't eat it all, they want to know why, see through your attempts to lie about not being that hungry or whatever else you can think of, and get upset when you tell the truth?
I have, however, occasionally had good turkey dinner, and I ca
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Obviously, the key element to a perfectly baked turkey is brining the bird for 12-16 hours, then placing it in the medium-hot oven...
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Even without the brine I never make dry turkey, sounds like it may be cooked at too high of a temperature. 325 max for a Turkey, basting every 1/2 hour or so. The other part of a dry bird is normally letting it set to long uncovered after removing from the oven. Until you are ready to cut, keep a big sheet of foil over it. After cutting, replace the foil so the rest does not get dry while you eat.
Call me odd, but I prefer Turkey and Chicken over Beef and Pork. I eat beef maybe once a week, and pork may
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2) Cooking time is pretty critical.
Here's s foolproof method for cooking birds so they're moist and tender, based on the Hainan chicken recipe. It works by bringing the proteins in the bird above their denaturing temperature in a non-drying, salt-balanced environment first, then using high heat to generate the Maillard reactions for the roasted flavour. By keeping the temp below 100c, you also avoid stretching the muscle fibres by passing boiling liquids passing between them.
Put the bird in a pot of salted water or stock, add herbs, spices e
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1. Whole Deep Fried Turkey....turns out moist and not greasy at all, if you watch the oil temps.
2. Smoked Turkey...I can brine then smoke a whole turkey in my bandera style smoker..and comes out moist and tasty...this is my favorite.
3. Turdukey...de boned Chicken stuffed in a de boned duck, stuffed in a de boned turkey...with 3 different stuffings, one between each layer. this is then roasted. There is the fat in the
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>>>As a kid, my favorite thing, was those plates that had compartments..so that one food didn't touch the other food.
I used to be like that, but once I get to college they just dumped the food on my plate haphazardly. I still don't want peas IN my mashed potatoes, but I no longer care if they touch one another...... or if a pea rolls into the turkey and gets gravy on it.
BTW spaghetti with a side of fries sounds okay to me. Both have the same thing in common: Seasoned with ketchup. ;-)
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Isn't mashed potatoes a condiment similar to ketchup? Great on meat and veggies, and sometimes gravy solo but mostly good with other things. Mashed potato's on a fork is the easiest, and tastiest, way for me to pick up and eat corn off the cob.
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It's perfectly palatable. A bit of graaaaaaaavy too, that'll be fine.
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BTW spaghetti with a side of fries sounds okay to me. Both have the same thing in common: Seasoned with ketchup. ;-)
Tell me you actually do understand the difference between ketchup and spaghetti sauce...
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The condition you have is Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
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No...not really a compulsion. I mean, I don't get 'uptight' because food on my plate touches each other....It is just that I like to taste the individual flavors of everything. I don't think things taste as good when mixed...for most things.
Mexican food...for example, is an exception, since it all (at least Tex Mex in the US) is basically the same shit, just rolled up differently....basically corn tortillas, beans, meat, cheese....so, that doesn't
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Impressive. Most people actually have to drink more wine in order to get pissed.
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I don't get what your meaning...?
Why would I drink more wine to get mad? I'm not a mean drunk....?
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to be pissed can mean both to be angry, and to be drunk. the more you know.
what are you, some sort of foreigner? i dont mean not american they are foreigners too.
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AC above is not American. Elsewhere in the world, getting pissed involves becoming drunk, not angry.
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So you're a Romulan. Got it.
You can't call that biology (Score:4, Insightful)
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It is flawed, because it does not make any sense.
If two foods share a certain molecule, then that is the same as one food having the molecule and one lacking it.
You have the molecule in your mouth from food 1 alone already. You will not be able to taste, which food the molecule you're tasting came from. So it does not matter at all, if food 2 also has this molecule. That would only increase the total amount of that molecule in your mouth, which you would also get by eating twice as much of food 1 at once.
An
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From TFA, it's not that they are trying to pair two pieces of sugar. It's more like they are taking the chemicals from oranges, more for the acid molecules, and mixing them with buttermilk which may have similar acid molecules. This differs in that it's not the major flavor they are trying to pair, but the other components we don't notice. Warning!: Trying that combination may lead to curdled milk in your stomach and cause vomiting.
I'm with most that say it's all bunk, and could not be made in to a scie
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Order a Cement Mixer shot next time you're in a bar.
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Sorry, I don't drink alcoholic beverages.
Practice (Score:2)
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It's a metaphor. You wouldn't understand.
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Good metaphors don't need an explanation.
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Although it's not exactly Shakespeare, it doesn't need explanation to people outside of the autism spectrum.
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So, old man, care to explain the metaphor or what?
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Sure. A metaphor draws on the likeness of two things, actions, or ideas, to say something about one using expressions more conventionally suited for the other. The expression 'practising without a licence' is usually used in the medical profession, where in fact one does need a licence, which takes a bit of education and expertise to acquire. There, practising without a licence would mean you're passing yourself off as something you're not, most likely defrauding your customers in the process (and potential
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a. likening Henson Blumenthal with a biologist and
b. likening practicing biology with practicing medicine
I might not be autistic after all.
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Besides. It's not biology that you would be "practicing without a license". It's chemistry.
What rules you use to judge the result are another matter.
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Its both actually... /T
olfactory receptor proteins in the nose... neurons firing... local inter-neurons combining the signals....
chemical neurobiology/chemical ecology
(ecology as it relates to other organisms... (plants etc.)... think kairomones!
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Maybe it will finally explain my cousin (Score:2)
The guy will dip french fries in ANYTHING.
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Many years ago, I was at The Tasty in Cambridge, MA. A guy sat at the counter and ordered french fries with some soft-serve vanilla to dip them into. The cook said "That's disgusting. You can't have it." I miss the Tasty.
Wrong target (Score:5, Insightful)
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This post exactly. It's not that a hot dog with ketchup and fries is a perfect pairing of food, it's just what you might be used to growing up so eating one is often attributed to the other. I don't think tacos and Pepsi are a perfect pairing but whenever I go to Taco Bell I want Pepsi with my meal. I never noticed this till I stopped drinking soda, the meal tastes odd without the Pepsi because that's what I used to drink every time I went.
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Precisely.
What fits well together is largely a cultural thing. Consider this: in England eating vinegar sprinkled over deep fried potatoes is considered de rigueur. On the continent this draws looks of horror, here we eat our chips the Belgian way: with mayonnaise.
Now, there's some physical aspects of how tastes go together. Some tastes will overpower others, so combining them is not a good idea. But the individual reaction as to how well two things fit together? I think looking for a physical explanation f
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What fits well together is largely a cultural thing. Consider this: in England eating vinegar sprinkled over deep fried potatoes is considered de rigueur. On the continent this draws looks of horror, here we eat our chips the Belgian way: with mayonnaise.
I always thought it was a combination of cultural expectations and the fact people aren't open to explore the tastes that are foreign to them. I like deep fried potatoes with vinegar, mayo, gravy, mustard, and ketchup. Sure each flavor combination is different, but if someone truly gives it a chance...who knows what you like!
Of course, it is possible that a deep fried potato taste good with everything.
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I actually like chips the English way. But that was because I took the trouble to try it when I was visiting the UK. If I say that out loud over here in the Netherlands, people look upon me as if I were a madman.
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When you attribute good or bad to taste and other things, you are mostly observing not your food, but to yourself, how you felt before when you tasted something that had a similar taste, texture, smell or eaten in the same way. Probably you won't like food that were forced in a bad way to eat as child, or that your parents went mad when you ate that, our your friends laffed at you when you tell them that you liked it. And you probably would like new/different things that you took in a loving/friendly/fun/et
Beer (Score:1)
Re:Beer (Score:5, Informative)
Weed + any food = yum.
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Weed = yum.
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Yum
Also depends on the person (Score:3)
I tried Domino's today and their tomato sauce did NOT "pair" well with the cheese (too spicy/strong). Next time I'll try marinara sauce or goback to Pizza Hut.
I also don't like the so-called Sweet & Sour chicken my asian friends sometimes feed me. Just straight sweet is my preference.
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Until you have a reason to cook. Then cooking gets awesome [cookingforengineers.com].
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Engineer: antithesis of a 'foodie'
PBJ for lunch every day!
Correlation does not equal causation; just because you are an engineer and a cretin does not mean that all engineers are cretins.
Re:Engineer (Score:4, Informative)
Engineer: antithesis of a 'foodie'
PBJ for lunch every day!
You know, there is a place in the world for "culinary engineering." I'm not talking about the manly art of flipping burgers on the grill. (Although there are actually better and worse techniques for that, too... empirically-derived....) If you don't make use of at least two kitchen scales (with different levels of precision), a superfast probe thermometer with thermocouple, an infrared thermometer, and a pH meter in your kitchen on a regular basis, you're not living up to the engineer's creed.
(I know what some of you are thinking -- what the heck is a pH meter doing in a kitchen? Very useful for testing the place of sourdough in its life cycle, whether your dill pickles and sauerkraut are properly fermented, even getting the perfect lemonade strength...)
My kitchen is also outfitted with a bunch of lab glassware -- Erlenmeyer flasks make great containers for oils and things you don't want to spill (laboratory glassware tends to have good lips to prevent a lot of dripping). A 2-liter or 5-liter beaker is great for measuring the rise of bread dough and its "doubling." All my spices are conveniently alphabetized in large test tubes in a test tube rack.
Engineering can be applied to most problems. Cooking is just applied chemistry, and therefore it amounts to chemical engineering on a very small scale. For example, using precision instruments can actually give your cooking an edge (particularly in baking), as long as you know what you're doing.
If you want to get even more fancy, keep a "lab notebook" of your "experiments." Note successful techniques to replicate your "experiments" for a dinner party. Record the weather and kitchen conditions when you're doing anything involving yeast or other microorganisms (like making your own cultured buttermilk). etc.
One can go overboard. I have yet to set up a distillation column to make my own extracts and essential oils, but that will probably happen at some point....
By the way, perhaps the problem is terminology. I spend a lot of time cooking, and I enjoy a fancy dinner at many "fancy" restaurants. But I'd never associate myself with the term "foodie," which I think of almost as an insult. Perhaps that's because most of the people whom I know and consider themselves "foodies" are pretentious idiots who care more about what the "hot" restaurants are, what the "hip" ways to make certain food are, etc., rather than whether it actually tastes good to anyone.
You're right -- "foodies" are not engineers, any more than an haute couture dress designer is an engineer. But that doesn't mean we can't use engineering to create newer better fabrics, better dyes, more efficient or durable designs for clothing, etc. Whether the fashion snobs will accept it (as the foodies judge the new restaurant or sniff their wine) is beside the point. Unlike in clothing fashion, most people are happy to eat good food cooked at home, without the approval of some elite.
Where are the real experts? (Score:1)
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Conservatives: Less filling!
Some things are best left as "art" (Score:2)
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Great, a food pairing company (Score:3)
that hasn't stopped one popular idea from spawning a company dedicated to discovering avant-garde new pairings
Next up: patenting food combinations as "inventions".
Foods that absolutely don't mix (Score:2)
This tastes like proto-science... (Score:1)
Yes, how food tastes is molecular. Is biological - that's why no culture will like foods that smell i.e. like shit. But if you try to analyze it as just Bio, and just throw out the social part, your research won't go well.
Using just as an example as how much culture affects you
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Wait a second. Are you claiming the 'soft sciences' use scientific method at all?
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I don't think taste pairings are that much cultural. I haven't encountered many dishes from c
Odor is Everything (Score:3, Insightful)
Pinch your nose closed and take a bite of your favorite succulent cuisine. You'll quickly realize that taste is not what you think it is, and that what your brain perceives as "taste" depends much more on olfactory stimulation than on your tastebuds.
I learned that first watching Mr. Wizard's World way back in the 80s. :)
Anti-bacterial (Score:1)
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Also, because onion and garlic are really tasty.
Some things do pair well (Score:2)
Dark chocolate and coffee, dark chocolate and pretzels, dark chocolate and pinot noir, dark chocolate and mint... hmm, gotta find a non-chocolate example. Tequila and lime?
The universal truth (Score:3)
What goes well together is very much a cultural thing, as I think anybody who travels will know. Personally, I've had boiled sweets with garlic or durian flavour in Thailand; my Chinese wife tends to combine foods in surprising ways too - like apple pie with baked beans or cakes with a fruit and chicken filling. Or take this new, stomach churning trend where you get chocolate sauce with meat (shudder).
I guess if you are open minded enough, most things can go well together. And if you are pregnant, well.... let's say no more, but I knew one lady who had a craving for fishcakes and blue cheese (with nothing else).
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New, stomach-churning trend?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(sauce)#Poblano [wikipedia.org]
Garlic in sweets can be quite tasty, too. Don't even need to go to Thailand - the Gilroy Garlic Festival, while a bit overcrowded, does a great job showing that off. Garlic+vanilla ice cream: superb.
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And if you are pregnant, well.... let's say no more, but I knew one lady who had a craving for fishcakes and blue cheese (with nothing else).
I have yet to find any citable articles on this, but I am of the opinion that the odd pregnancy cravings are driven by the developing baby needing specific building blocks at specific times.
I've noted that pregnant women will frantically sample many foods in quick succession seeking out that which satisfies the cravings. Once they find the right combo for the moment, it doesn't matter how ghastly the combo is. These gastronomic non-sequiters often evolve throughout the pregnancy.
The reason they happen is