U.S. Students Struggle With Reasoning Skills 488
sciencehabit writes "The first-ever use of interactive computer tasks on a national science assessment suggests that most U.S. students struggle with the reasoning skills needed to investigate multiple variables, make strategic decisions, and explain experimental results. The results (PDF) are part of the National Assessment of Educational Progress that was given in 2009 to a representative sample of students in grades four, eight, and 12. What the vast majority of students can do, the data show, is make straightforward analyses. More than three-quarters of fourth grade students, for example, could determine which plants were sun-loving and which preferred the shade when using a simulated greenhouse to determine the ideal amount of sunlight for the growth of mystery plants. When asked about the ideal fertilizer levels for plant growth, however, only one-third of the students were able to perform the required experiment, which featured nine possible fertilizer levels and only six trays. Fewer than half the students were able to use supporting evidence to write an accurate explanation of the results. Similar patterns emerged for students in grades 8 and 12."
No suprise there (Score:5, Insightful)
US adults struggle with reasoning skills too.
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The Congress is a great example of pure classic conditioning, except the reward isn't cheese, it's money.
You reward even the mindless and they will do what you want. They also see their buddies getting revolving door jobs and that acts as a delayed gratification. This is why you get nothing but the money hungry in Congress now. If your gratification is helping your constituents you don't survive very long.
Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Informative)
:"Dangers of a Salaried Bureaucracy," 1787
"Sir, there are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice; the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but, when united in view of the same object, they have, in many minds, the most violent effects."
Benjamin Franklin
Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Interesting)
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Ok Lets blame the Right, they are anti-science.
Or lets blame the Left, they make kids think if they don't have million dollar facilities they cannot learn anything, they don't try to learn.
Both sides are well over generalizing.
The problem isn't Left Politics, Right Politics, or Religion. It is a culture that is seems to allow people to progress with poor reasoning. Tests are not about reasoning, but knowing the information. Today we can get facts very fast. Much faster then any time in history... Unfort
Re:No suprise there (Score:4, Insightful)
Tests are not about reasoning, but knowing the information.
I believe you have it, a lot of the youths I talk to rely on facts and do not try to "figure" it out on their own.
I think it's the biggest danger for youth today, this prevents them from going into the sciences or engineering.
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Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fascinating to see this poor reasoning played out on this very forum right now, right before our very eyes.
Re:No suprise there (Score:4, Funny)
It's fascinating to see this poor reasoning played out on this very forum right now, right before our very eyes.
I don't get it.
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Well you're up shit creek.
Just for starters, you are blissfully ignorant of the difference between "than" and "then"[1], "Walk Man" (should be one word), "Right", "Left", "Science", "Politics" (none are proper nouns and therefore don't merit an uppercase letter).
[1] Twice. They don't even sound the fucking same, you drooling monger.
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I assume you mean "aren't Evolution denying YECs". Catholics are completely on board with Evolution.
Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Funny)
Blatantly false. Since US kids have a problem with reasoning and I am not a kid I must not have reasoning problems.
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Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Funny)
As a corollary, because these reasoning-challenged kids' brains are obviously made of wood, they are witches and must be burned.
My goodness, I think your logic has saved America!
Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Insightful)
I ain't paid to reason, I paid to go to meetin's.
Re:No suprise there (Score:4, Insightful)
Broader than that: Humans struggle with reasoning skills.
Re:No suprise there (Score:5, Interesting)
Broader than that: Humans struggle with reasoning skills.
I would suggest that your comment indirectly implies an important root of the problem. Many in the social sciences attempt to study human society as if it were an ant colony, from a distance, as if the observer is separate from the observed. As we look at human beings and their foibles and faults, we seem to be led to the conclusion that humans are nothing like what we would wish. We don't seem to be rational. We often don't seem to be moral. We in fact seem to be rather despicable creatures. Leaving it at that, we are tempted to throw up our arms and say "to hell with humans, we are beyond help". All our idealism, our attempts to be rational, to be good seem hopeless and futile.
However I would like to take this further. Humans tend to be irrational. Humans tend to be selfish evil creatures. Our natural tendencies imply that we must try harder to overcome them. Because we tend to fall into irrationality, we must fight to be rational. Because we tend to be selfish and shallow means that we must try our best to nurture "the better angels in our nature". We will never "win" this battle. We will never vanquish evil and selfishness. But if we try, maybe, just maybe we can make our civilisation into a system that gives most of us a better and more fulfilling life.
Never would have guessed (Score:5, Funny)
After watching the Republican primary debates, I certainly NEVER would have guessed that Americans had poor reasoning abilities.
Re:No suprise there (Score:4, Funny)
Americans are dumb.
Really? From what I've seen Americans are great at talking. It's getting them to shut up that's the problem. Now, are Americans stupid? I can see that being argued successfully.
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Come on, all the good stuff like gravity and planets and electric's already been done.
We've arrived at the remnant bin of discovering shit. $2,99 a theory, three for 6 bucks. VWP, YMMV.
Misleading headline? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Misleading headline? (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed, I'd like to see the scores from other countries.
Also, I'd like to see this with adults in different professions. For instance, are scientists better at this than artists? And what about creativity scores?
My gut says that a) all children will probably not be great at this and b) adults probably aren't either. And sadly it probably doesn't match up as well with profession as we might like. I'm a molecular biologist and plenty of my colleagues would probably struggle with these tasks. I wish I could take the test to see how I do (but I'm also afraid I would fail miserably).
Re:Misleading headline? (Score:5, Insightful)
Reasoning is required to be a scientist.
It may be required to be a good scientist, but not to get a job as one.
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Reasoning is required to be a scientist.
It may be required to be a good scientist, but not to get a job as one.
Case in point: scientists mentioned above believe that not being able to test 9 discrete choices with only the capacity to test 6 discrete choices is somehow a failure. Sure, you could test a few choices and extrapolate what the results of the missing choices might be, but you can't conclusively determine something you haven't tested.
Re:Misleading headline? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not obvious from the interface they give, but you can do it given a few (true) assumptions. The key thing is to note that you can do multiple experiments as long as the total is only 6 trays. The assumptions are that
1) There is only one optimum fertilizer value, and it's one of the testable values
2) If you're off by one, plants will grow better than if you're off by more than one.
Given this, you just test 2,4,6, and 8. If one seems best, test the values on either side of it and pick the best of the three. If two seem equally good, you know the answer is between the two (but test it anyway).
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It's not obvious from the interface they give, but you can do it given a few (true) assumptions. The key thing is to note that you can do multiple experiments as long as the total is only 6 trays. The assumptions are that 1) There is only one optimum fertilizer value, and it's one of the testable values 2) If you're off by one, plants will grow better than if you're off by more than one.
Given this, you just test 2,4,6, and 8. If one seems best, test the values on either side of it and pick the best of the three. If two seem equally good, you know the answer is between the two (but test it anyway).
But unless you've shown that the growth to fertilizer function is continuous with a single maximum, you cannot make that assumption. You might guess that it's the case, and you'd probably be right, but you're also counting the right answer ("there is no way to conclusively show the optimum fertilization level given the constraints of the experiment") as a wrong answer. In essence, you're telling the kids that they were wrong for trying to apply rigor to their experiment.
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I think you're reading too much into my statement. I didn't mean to imply that there are no good scientists, or even that a large proportion of them are, I just disagree with the assumption that because reasoning skills are required for science, that all professional scientists have good reasoning skills. Scientists are also in an interesting position, because political pressure means that being extremely bad at science can help you get certain jobs (like say, studying climate change for The Heartland Insti
Re:Misleading headline? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe these 4th graders would perform better if someone simply SHOWED them how to determine which of 6 fertilizers is better. Maybe a class called "Lab" would be appropriate to fix this deficiency.
Yes... because after that, they would know exactly how to determine which of those 6 fertilizers is better in each of those lighting situations.
Really... I was frustrated with this back when I was in grade 4; teachers encouraged learning specific processes to solve specific problems, and most kids couldn't figure out what to do when stuck in an unfamiliar situation. This wasn't all that surprising, considering grade 4 is about the age where this kind of reasoning ability starts to develop, given a favourable development environment. I remember struggling with basic maths in grade 4, but having no difficulties (other than mathematical errors) completing the problem solving steps. I went socratic on my classmates who didn't have a clue where to begin.
Maybe these 4th graders would perform better if someone simply SHOWED them how to question the steps of the process, and ask about parts they didn't understand, instead of pretending they already knew everything about it that was worth their time understanding and focus instead on getting the "winning answer". And yes, s/4th graders/humanity/.
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This is how I'm supplementing my daughter's public school education; lots of questions and them tips on how to approach problems. It's really just a different mode of thinking.
I see this same problem in techs coming in to our help desk. I provide documentation and training materials and it's pretty obvious who are problem solvers and who are script followers. For some people, they literally do not think in a decent problem solving way. Reminds me of Black Adder trying to teach Baldric how to do maths;
If I t
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Indeed, I'm in europe right now and I can tell you that reasoning and critical thinking skills are not exactly top notch here either.
That's one way to interpret it (Score:3)
The way I interpreted it is that they only tested U.S. students, so it'd be premature to assume the results extrapolate to students elsewhere. If you have a bunch of green and red apples, and you try a few of the green ones and they taste bad, the correct declarative statement would be "The green apples taste bad." It implies nothing ab
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So... if I go get some food and my expectation is that I get the right thing, and they give me the wrong thing, it's entirely possible that my expectations are just off, and I'm expecting too much?
They showed that the kids were all very good at getting answers when given a structured set of data and tests, but not when asked to design an experiment. That means that design skills are lacking relative to analysis skills. There's no running study needed.
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No, it implies that they are bad at reasoning; Probably too bad to productively live in the real world. It does not matter where they stand on an international scale when they are this bad at reasoning.
Re:Misleading headline? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, judging by the article, the announcement seemed to boil down to "Students have an easy time with easy questions, but a harder time with hard questions."
Obviously (Score:3, Funny)
Too much time spent teaching tests (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too much time spent teaching tests (Score:5, Funny)
...teaching them how to actually think.
Fascist!
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That's just a communist attitude right there..
Next you'll be saying that they shouldn't be taught how to become good corporate citizens.
Buy more! Buy more now.
Can you be more specific?
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Paradoxically, this test proves otherwise.
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This, this, a thousand times THIS!
The us education system (and many others) for K-12 seems almost entirely devoted to learning by rote and teaching to standardized tests. There are certainly schools and individual teachers that buck this trend, but it's not until college that you've got a reasonable chance at actually being challenged to THINK.
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-- instead of teaching them how to actually think.
My wife is a second grade teacher and the whole teaching paradigm now is all about learning by discovery. Back in my day, we sat in rows and columns and memorized. If today's kids are struggling with reasoning skills more than yesterday's kids, it's not the teaching methods that are at fault. Unless being forced to memorize everything is actually the better way.
If you ask me, it's the TV shows they watch nowadays. No wonder they all have ADHD.
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Rows and columns? Back in my day, we had to sit in hilbert curves, and we liked it!
Re:Too much time spent teaching tests (Score:5, Insightful)
I see a lot of comments about "schools don't teach you to think anymore." On the other hand, you can't reason the right answers out if you have the wrong basis (facts, memorization, etc.). It's like saying that elementary school math doesn't teach you how to solve large multiplication problems anymore, they just teach times tables! ... but it's hard to do a multiplication problem without knowing what 6 * 8 is off the top of your head. Memorization of some things is extremely important to reasoning skills.
I also wonder if it has to do with books. Reading is out, other forms of media is in. Visual media doesn't make you think a whole lot. Even adults that do think can watch a movie, totally zone out and entirely ignore how things are presented, what views the movie is expressing (if any), whether or not it's realistic in any way, etc. Some movies push you to think; most, though, push people to turn off their brains.
And since visual media (games, TV, movies, etc) are getting more and more prevalent ... I wonder if the lack of reasoning and thinking is related to the lack of necessity of imagination that is stimulated through reading books?
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Actually, I'd take a more epistemological angle to the problem. I think we may have accidentally taught young people that knowledge is something that need to be "searched" for rather than "discovered".
I think schools have always given a hint to students that ther superiors have the knowledge that they seek and all you have to do is seek it out, but due to the lack of available research resources in the past, both teachers and students have been forced to improvise, almost accidentally teaching students to
Re:Too much time spent teaching tests (Score:5, Funny)
DOH! 6*4 is 48. I suck...
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The problem is, teaching people to think isn't exactly a useful life skill. Being able to think is by and large less useful than being able to regurgitate facts, and much much less useful than being able to shmooze with the right people.
Congratulations (Score:4, Insightful)
After billions of dollars we have produced an education system churning out children that cannot think for themselves.
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But they get excited for the next ipad, so we have that.
Sorry... with a story like this it's just too much of a temptation to let the karma burn.
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In contrast, the "right" side of the US political spectrum marches in lock-step unison.
Quick summary:
Right = binary: true/false, yes/no, on/off; Sith Lords
Left = shades of gre
Let the public education (Score:3)
bashing commence.
Critical reasoning skills = critical thinking skills. Parents are just as vital in the equation here as teachers. Yes, teachers have a job to do there, but, in my opinion, this shows a failure of the culture, rather than education.
From early on, we're conditioned to be mindless little consumers. Why think about problems when you can take a pill and make them all go away? Why consider alternates to problem solving when you can just spend the problem away.
You want mindless drones, you get mindless drones.
How to counteract this? Get rid of those freaking standardized tests, for one. Invest heavily in the arts in primary grades, and cross-teach the arts/sciences. Bring connections between drawing and engineering, math and music. And finally, take the politics out of my classroom. I don't need you to tell me how to teach. I take P.D. courses every year, have two advanced degrees, and years of experience telling me that I can generally figure out what's best for each. and. every. individual. student.
But this is all just my opinion.
Re:Let the public education (Score:5, Interesting)
But you are assuming that a government run school wants to produce students who can think critically.
If they did, then these people may actually ask the hard questions. "Why are you in office if all you do is lie to the public, cheat to get ahead, and steal from the public coffers?", "Why is the drug scheduling system based on "Potential for abuse" and not "Danger to the health of the individual?", "How can you violate the 4th amendment to the constitution by passing security acts and not amending the constitution?"
See, they don't want people who can think. They want people who will shut up and do what they are told.
This from someone who's daughter asked the hard questions in school about drug policy. Thus he was visited by the police to discuss it in detail. (Not a drug user but the mere argument was enough to get them to stop by for a chat.)
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I'm the very first to bash public schools, but this time the first thing that popped into my head was "these kids never had to debug a problem with a desktop PC" (swapping parts with a working one, etc). And that, of course, was just the modern variant of working on cars, which in turn was the new version of farming (if I plant seeds in this fashion... or if I train my horse in this fashion...). What all three of these have in common is working with the hands. As Dr. Maria Montessori said, "The hands are
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Re:Let the public education (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you know why they teach to the lowest common denominator?
Let me tell you a story that happened just this year:
We have an autistic student in the grade directly below the one I teach. Low-functioning, highly aggressive and combative, generally a disruptive force in the classroom. When we present the principal, then superintendent, then school board with evidence, research and suggestions, they all agree that he needs to be in a self-contained classroom. Realistically, what this kid is getting != what he's taking away from every other student during the day. So, we call a meeting with the parents, special needs advocate and a ROE representative just to cover all of our bases. What do the parents also bring to the meeting? A lawyer. A lawyer from ~ 600 miles away from the nearest urban center (yes, the words big city lawyer come to mind). Why? Because if we pulled their child away from his friends (he has none), then they would sue fast, sue hard, and sue often.
In this day of reduced spending, teachers being paraded around like well, like someone that's paraded around for public scorn, what choice did we have?
Realistically, the other 25 sets of parents should be able to say, "no, you assholes, your child does not get to sap mine." BUT, because we can't tell anyone about what specifically transpired in these meetings using names and what-not, no one knows. All they know is that there are 25 little kids that already hate school, because of one precious little snowflake.
What do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
You're not kidding.
I took a first year logic/critical reasoning class later in university because I still needed a first year credit and that sounded interesting.
We were talking about confidence intervals ... and confidence interval of 0.05 meant you were 95% sure. On the exam, the question asked about a confidence interval of 0.5, which I answered as 50% sure.
The professor marked it wrong, and said that since we'd only covered 0.05 in class, it was a typo -- nobody was expected to know about 0.5. I told her that since it was a class on critical reasoning, she was an idiot and demanded she mark my correct answer as correct. I had to go to the department head to get her to do it.
When the teachers can't follow reasoning, how the hell are they supposed to teach it? In this case, she was expecting blindly repeating the example from class, not doing any thinking (even though as written all of the people she marked right couldn't have been).
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
How many 'states of matter' are there?
a) 1
b) 2
c) 3
d) 4
I would answer 4--Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma--because I read books. But we weren't expected to know about plasma, so the correct answer was always 3, and I was marked wrong. The teachers never gave me credit, because I don't think they knew what a plasma was either.
Re:What do you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, there are far more than four, if we're to get technical. For the correct answer to be three, the test would have to indicate that it's referring to classical states, but if it merely asked for states of matter, none of those answers are correct.
Re:What do you expect? (Score:4, Informative)
The three classical states are so grouped because each can change into any of the others. You probably are already familiar with freezing/melting and vaporization/condensation, but may not be familiar with sublimation or disposition.
Plasma is grouped as a high-energy state of matter, apart from the other three, because only a gas can undergo ionization and become plasma (and a plasma can undergo deionization to become a gas). Another high-energy state is quark-gluon plasma (not to be confused with typical plasma).
Low-temperature states (consequently low-energy, but I refrain from calling it this directly) are on the other side of the spectrum. Perhaps the best example is superfluid, created when matter is cooled close to absolute zero. It has some pretty interesting properties, among the most prominent being infinite fluidity and infinite thermal conductivity.
Also a low-temperature state, Bose-Einstein Condensate, is when the matter stops behaving like you would expect it to (separate particles) and instead in a quantum state.
--
For obvious reasons, you can see why these other states of matter aren't included in third grade textbooks, since many of them require some higher level mathematics and understanding of physics to begin to understand. Plasma is sometimes included early on because it is easier to explain and very common in everyday life (fire, electricity).
But that doesn't vindicate teachers from teaching it wrong. Adding the word classical can make a whole world of difference when later they're taught about additional states, and doesn't leave the impression that those three are the only states of matter. It's akin to an elementary teacher telling children that rational numbers are the only numbers there are (irrational numbers are very real, so too are unreal numbers and hyperreals). Just because you can't explain something doesn't excuse you of teaching it wrong.
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>>>confidence interval of 0.05 meant you were 95% sure. On the exam, the question asked about a confidence interval of 0.5, which I answered as 50% sure. The professor marked it wrong, and said that since we'd only covered 0.05 in class, it was a typo
>>>
So she expected you to answer 0.5 == 95% sure, even though it was clearly wrong?!?!?
What a dumb bitch.
Was this really a professor or a TA?
A friend of mine, while working to get her Ph.D., taught a 101 course. The first time teaching it, she found that the students had significant problems with basic math. So, on her second semester teaching it, she decided to give them a basic math quiz on the first day of class (didn't count towards their grade) to determine the extent of their problems. Turns out they had problems finding a points on a graph, adding fractions, solving for x given a single linear equation...one of the students couldn't fi
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God I hated biology (Score:2)
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No Child Left Behind Sucks. (Score:2)
In fact, when my cohorts and I would refuse to take the portions of said tests or would write satire about how we hated the tests on the essay portions, the teachers would forcibly make us redo them according to the directions. Interesting, considering these tests were not recorded on my "p
Re:No Child Left Behind Sucks. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why did that surprise you?
Teachers are doing a job. If that job is evaluated based on standardized tests, they will make sure that job is done well.
Do you not work for income? Would you not focus on the parts of your job that are actually evaluated?
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I think you are remembering the Atlanta Test Fraud [ajc.com] scandal.
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First off - everyone exists to justify their own existence. Do you blame the teachers for wanting to keep their jobs, not be ostracized publicly when their scores tank, and well, keep their jobs?
Anyway - so NCLB sucks; that's not news. What would you have them do instead? People demand metrics about how their little precious baby learns, but no one is willing to pay to have it done correctly. People demand top-rate education, but no one is willing to fund it outside of mandatory fees (and even then only if
Squirrel! (Score:3)
There are solutions: Philosophy is one (Score:4, Informative)
Philosophy can be integrated into the curriculum as early as Elementary school, and has wonderful effects that extend beyond developing reasoning skills.
Common problem (Score:3)
Anti-american skills (Score:3, Funny)
reasoning skills needed to investigate multiple variables, make strategic decisions, and explain experimental results
Those skills are all anti-american. You're supposed to follow the herd and believe whatever the preacher and TV say. Anything else isn't cool.
They need questions like:
1) Sally takes three plants and puts one in the dark, one in the shade, one in open sunlight. What is the most likely thing to happen next:
a) The DEA agents find the plant in the dark and bust her
b) The DEA agents find the plant in the shade and bust her
c) The DEA agents find the plant in open sunlight and bust her
d) Sally switches into the far more lucrative prostitution trade and dies of a half dozen STDs.
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e) Sally hires a Professional Horticulturalist to analyze and maintain her plants.
People expect specialization, and assume that the skills needed for it are obtained during that training.
No one wants US to think. (Score:3, Insightful)
No one wants us to be able to think for ourselves. Not the corporations, nor the Government. People that are able to reason, and think for themselves, see the bullshit that is going on, and will call it out. Unfortunately, the bullshit runs this country and the corporations.
Or you're like me, able to reason and so tired of how stupid most everyone else is, that you gave up and just going to watch the world go to hell.
Standard Reasoning (Score:2)
What we see is 'reasoning' that goes like this...
1+1=37. This is a fiction, and thus isn't a fact. It is the opposite of a fact, so that makes it an opinion. Opinions are by definition not wrong, so 1+1=37 isn't wrong. since it isn't wrong, it must be right. Since it is right it must be true. Since
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The death of logic (Score:5, Interesting)
Noted sci-fi author John Barnes recently wrote something about this in his blog: http://thatjohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2012/06/hobo-queen-of-sciences.html [blogspot.com]
tl;dr version (though its quite a good read, as his books that I have read so far): Girl in her class tried using angry pounding shouting as a debate tactic, and when asked about it, she declared it was "logic." "I was totally logical. I pointed things out real loud and told people they were dumb if they didn't believe it, and I yelled so they'd get the point."
Yeah. Back in my day "Logic" was a little bird tweeting in the meadow, nowadays its "agrees with me."
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Oh wow. You know, the people in Idiocracy are at least likeable.... what will actually happen might be so much worse. Also, it will not take 500 years, no siree bob.
No experience with the utility of reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids live in a world even more arbitrary and capricious than that of adults. This is especially true in primary and secondary school. Why, then, would they develop reasoning skills? Those that do end up challenging authority and getting arbitrarily slapped down, so there's negative incentives as well as a lack of positive ones.
cognitive dissonance (Score:2)
I wonder if a case could be made that cognitive dissonance experienced at a young age has prevented the development of proper reasoning skills. If you're told repeatedly that something is true that you can see is false, (or vice-versa) or told at a young age that something did not happen when you have direct experience that it did, the experience does strange things to your brain.
Teach Logic (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm coming around to the opinion that we've got to teach logic at a very young age, as was done in classical education. Ultimately it's the foundation to all of math and the scientific method. If the first time you study basic logic is in college, then your entire education is built on shifting sand.
No the don't! They don't struggle. (Score:2)
No more metrics (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone hear on slashdot probably worked for an employer who utilized these and quality went down everytime where job performance was measured. Every MBA and even undergrad taking business management courses knows that quality always sufers when metrics are used inappropriately as game theory dictates that everyone's goal is to keep ones' job. Not help the company out. So if someone figures out a way to reduce inventory to save costs the VP of manufactoring has a hissy fit as his metrics suffer on amount o
Suh-weet! (Score:5, Funny)
I'll be 44 in a couple of weeks.
Another name for this is "job security".
So? (Score:5, Insightful)
I just have to ask, is it really reasonable to assume that everyone should have great analytical skills? The study says that about one third of the students had the necessary reasoning skills. This sounds about right to me. Most people are not very analytical. This is why professions that require good analytical skills (medicine, engineering, law, etc.) tend to pay good wages.
Anyway, this study would be more interesting if we could compare current results with results from the past, or results in other countries. As it is, it's about as interesting as saying, "One third of students were over five feet tall." Without some sort of context to put that in, we can only speculate on its significance.
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I've also heard that around half of school children have below average reading comprehension and geometry skills.
Big surprise? (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people are not going to become scientists. At the elementary school level, people are not yet pre-selected for thinking roles; you're looking at basically a more or less random sample of the population.
Out of a thousand elementary school kids, how many will become scientists, engineers, etc?
Now if, say, third year engineering students across the USA are were found to be struggling with reasoning skills, oops, that would be troubling news.
Unfortunately for those kids who are struggling with reasoning, though, a lot of the kinds of jobs that they might have easily gone into after high school fifty years ago are now overseas.
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Reasoning skills aren't only important to scientists and engineers. They are also important to (and this list is not exhaustive) managers and administrators, accountants, lawyers, teachers, counselors, law enforcement officers, soldiers, guardians of children, people managing households, and -- in a democratic society -- citizens.
Overly critical. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone who thinks American students are bad with reasoning obviously hasn't spent much time outside the country. Those people haven't seen anything, especially Asia. And the problem isn't just reasoning skills, it's simply entertaining your own opinion as opposed to trying to please a superior. I've been in situations where an employee was asked what they thought about something and they'd sheepishly avoid the answer. Even when pressed they seemed unable to come up with a response. Lack of creative and independent thinking continues to be a problem, even in Japan.
That said, I think America is moving too far in the opposite direction. Sometimes rote memorization essential. And you need standardized tests to glean some sort of progress. They might not be perfect, but there's no better alternative.
The fact of the matter is that you need the fundamentals before you can progress. It's similar to artistic technique. Too many people hide behind the label of modern art to excuse their lack of talent. In order to have flexibility you need underlying ability. It's essentially the same principle here. And the fact is that kids don't necessarily have the knack for reasoning that people acquire with age. So why waste excessive amounts of energy trying to drill that into them?
But certainly, Americans have the ability to think independently and creatively. And I find them to generally be better informed and less prone to falling for myths, urban legends and other such nonsense. I'll concede, it could be the part of the country where I live. But overseas and amongst immigrants I've found that the consensus is that the US has the best educational system in the world.
I blame off-shoring (Score:3)
Kids don't have any reason to learn how to use their brains or learn any skills. What would they need them for? We've managed to offshore just about every profession requiring either.
Christian country (Score:3, Insightful)
It is no wonder that we have a lack of reasoning skills when we have a popular religion that instructs us NOT to reason, and to simply accept things the way they are without question.
Having children who can properly think and reason leads to uncomfortable questions like : "why are there no dinosaurs in the bible?" or "how can the entire earth flood in only a few days?" or "where did Noah store all that food?"
In other words, The US is full of stupid people, because their religion tells them to be stupid
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Some of that depends on the mechanics of the test. They mentioned interactive computer use, which by its nature is going to constrain what can be done with the lab environment to at least some degree. What sorts of things were the students allowed to do toward getting the experiment to work?
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everywhere
talk to people from other countries and almost everyone has to take a series of exams in their senior year of high school where the score determines which college you go to, if you go to college at all. and unlike the US where a former illegal immigrant and fruit picker can go to harvard medical school and become one of the top neurosurgeons in the country, once you screw up your youth you screw up your life. no going to a good college later on
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Societies have to act as a whole to have good educational institutions.
I think Wisconsin is a great example of this. The state has put teachers under attack because the Republican part of the state (including many outside interests) have their own agenda.
The Scandinavian countries have worked to make teaching a profession that has good pay and benefits and they have the results to show for it. There is care for society as a whole. Here in the U.S., however, we are going through the most selfish period of