Doctor Warns of the Hidden Danger of Touchscreens 242
snydeq writes "Dr. Franklin Tessler discusses the hidden stress-related injuries of touchscreen use, and how best to use smartphones, tablets, and touch PCs to avoid them. 'Touchscreen-oriented health hazards are even more insidious because most people aren't even aware that they exist. The potential for injury from using touchscreens will only go up ... as the rise of the touchscreen means both new kinds of health hazards and more usage in risky scenarios,' Tessler writes, providing tips for properly positioning touchscreens and ways to avoid repetitive stress injuries and eyestrain."
good job they don't have pointy corners (Score:5, Funny)
you could have your eye out
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I wouldn't worry about your eyes. Just think what happens when you eat the things.
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On that note I'd like to say a word about sharp edges. Whomever it was who decided that aesthetics outweighed the practical concerns about putting a right angle at the edge of my MBP was a bloody fool. A 1mm chamfer doesn't seem too much to ask.
Before you all jump in to call me a fool for buying one, I didn't; it was an insurance replacement.
Not this again..... (Score:5, Insightful)
More hype to sell the same tripe.
Seems to be simply latching onto the current fad toy and trying to saddle it with the same things they have been attributing to computers since the 80's.
There is nothing new in the article, simply attributing the same (largely imaginary) "diseases" to a different activity. But by mentioning touch screens they grab the headlines. Nothing about a touch screen forces you into the same position, viewing distance, or hand movements, in fact a tablet is probably the remedy for such complaints more than the cause.
But they trot out the same stuff they were crying about with desktop computers: Repeated motion injuries, Posture, Eyestrain.
I'm surprised they left off testicular heating [chicagotribune.com].
Really? Touch screens?
This looks like building a case for more insurance fraud [carsonfury.com] if you ask me.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Considering I avoid touchscreens as much as possible (vastly preferring my wife's android phone with a real keyboard and trackball; also great if your touchscreen develops a deadspot), and get repetitive stress injuries easily (had to drive one-handed for 6 months once from lifting a beer keg into my car), I see no reason to dispute this article. Touchscreens absolutely put more wear and tear on parts of my body never accustomed to it.
Actually if you read the article you would have realized that it has nothing to do with touchscreens, the reasons given for the "stress" was eye strain and typing with thumbs which is required for any phone.
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[Though I think most of the comments here would apply to both, and they were what drove me to post my comment. :)]
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"which is required for any phone."
not a touch screen phone.
Re:Not this again..... (Score:5, Funny)
and get repetitive stress injuries easily (had to drive one-handed for 6 months once from lifting a beer keg into my car),
Fuck man, if you got injured from repetitively lifting beer kegs into your car...
and you're not doing it for a living, you have other problems.
-AI
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Couldn't you have just (Score:2)
Let go of the keg?
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Re:Not this again..... (Score:5, Funny)
had to drive one-handed for 6 months once from lifting a beer keg into my car
I drive one handed every time I see an attractive woman.
I'm not going to ask who drives the car when you see two attractive women...
Re:Not this again..... (Score:5, Funny)
What's wrong with waving hello?
Re:Not this again..... (Score:5, Insightful)
More hype to sell the same tripe.
Here's the reasons listed in the article:
--Repeated motion injuries, like using your thumbs to type
--unnatural postures and forces, such as tilting their hands too far inward or outward while tapping or putting force on their wrists while typing.
--Eyestrain, either because the characters and images aren't clear or because the screen is obscured by glare or reflections
Although the article also contradicts itself: "tablets and smartphones almost guarantee such awkward use because they can be accessed almost anywhere and in any position -- most of which involve poor posture."
But doesn't that also mean people can hold the devices in more natural positions, making them far safer than PCs or laptops? Also the same argument could be made that books are dangerous because they can be accessed almost anywhere and in any position.
And that's pretty much the entire article. Nothing to see here, move along.
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But doesn't that also mean people can hold the devices in more natural positions, making them far safer than PCs or laptops? Also the same argument could be made that books are dangerous because they can be accessed almost anywhere and in any position.
Exactly. The remedy is built into the device.
No one is forced to sit in front of a tablet all day typing as was the case with desktop computers. Even those that do find a way to do hours of writing on a tablet have long since given up on the touch screen and have added keyboards. These are casual use devices.
You can walk around with a tablet, you move it when you become uncomfortable, you can easily seek the best lighting angle, and if your eyes bother you, you hold it at a different distance, angle, adj
Typical /. defensivness (Score:3)
So used to defending "new" technology that you can't allow legitimate concerns to be raised?
I get it, I'm surrounded by technologically ignorant people who respond irrationally to the stuff. But it is no reason to become irrationally defensive of the technology-- for those people, it does make sense to not discuss the topic at any depth but one does not have to get down to their level either.
TFA is nothing new and seems so obvious that its hardly worth discussion. As somebody who deals with those "non-iss
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If you bothered to read instead of immediately jumping to prove how much smarter you are, you would see that their claim is that touchscreens are worse than normal interfaces for two primary reasons:
1) Lack of tactile feedback causes users to push against the screen with several times the force used on a keyboard, without even realizing it.
2) The fact that even the lightest touch can cause something to happen forces users to hover their fingers over the keyboard when thinking, whereas with a normal keyboard
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If you bothered to read instead of immediately jumping to prove how much smarter you are, you would see that their claim is that touchscreens are worse than normal interfaces for two primary reasons:
1) Lack of tactile feedback causes users to push against the screen with several times the force used on a keyboard, without even realizing it.
2) The fact that even the lightest touch can cause something to happen forces users to hover their fingers over the keyboard when thinking, whereas with a normal keyboard you can rest your fingers on the keys without accidentally pressing one.
These two factors increase the likely hood of developing an RSI through touchscreen use as compared to keyboard use. The only real flaw with the article is that they don't really give any suggestions as to how to get around these problems, except to use a bluetooth keyboard, which isn't much of a solution.
I read the entire article. None of it is believable.
Re their point 1: Utterly Stupid. People figure out the force they need in the first 45 seconds of use. Who do you ever see mashing their touch screen?
Re Point 2: hovering a finger will not induce RSI, because there is no stress involved, and the hover is not held for that long. Besides, point two directly contradicts point one. The article is internally inconsistent, which is indicative of speculation rather than actual testing and observation.
In short
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It is not an imaginary disease. Why do people think that?
It's real, studied and documented.
Warning people they may experience pain fom ding a common task like using a touchscreen is responsible. People don't think about it.
Many people using a touch screen phone with one hand. Moving the thumb around the keyboard. Doing that repeatedly can cause pain.
"Repeated motion injuries, Posture, Eyestrain.
All of which are proven to happen.
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There is nothing new in the article, simply attributing the same (largely imaginary) "diseases" to a different activity.
I don't know anything about other diseases and I admit that the "testicular heating" you mentioned sounds made up (although, I don't know anything about that one either), but are you saying that the carpal tunnel syndrome (which is one of those "repeated motion injuries") is also one of those imaginary diseases? If you do, please provide one link from anyone who believes carpal tunnel syndrome is made up. I'm not asking you for multiple sources, or even a reliable source, I'm asking you to provide a single
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touchscreens are shit for your wrists and fingers.
what amazes me is that they claim it as hidden risk. no it's not hidden risk, it's in plain view. it's so fucking obvious that a touchscreen is going to ruin your hands faster than touch typing. even faster than two finger typing. you can't rest your hands. the devices can't be propped up. the input device and the screen are at the same point, either your neck or your hands are going to get the shaft and quite easily both. not to mention that you'll end up h
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From that page: "Sitting in a chair places 400 pounds of pressure on your lower back."
That would mean there's 400 pounds of me over the lower back, not including anything supported by the desk on which I'm resting my arms. Care to explain how that's possible ? Isn't the average male weight under 200 pounds anyway ?
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Probably PSI. Women in high heel shoes have incredibly high PSI centred on the heel, even if they don't weigh much :)
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And the floor gets it worse. Long ago in my construction days, I learned that the spike heels that were popular in the 1950s and early 1960s had a heel surface (the pointy end) of about 1/4 inch square = 1/16 square inch. And the way they made a woman walk more than doubled that force as an impact on the floor. So a 110 lb. (50 kg) woman was producing an impact on the order of 16 * 110 * 2 = 3420 PSI. Given the normal range of women's weights, this equates to 3000 to 4000 PSI on the floor, which is appr
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It is a shame they left the testies out though, laptops can indeed kill sperm (non-permanently of course) :)
Are you kidding? As somone who hates kids and condoms, that's a selling point!
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Just bite through the pain ffs! That's how my granddad got through a full-working life! People are pussies these days.
No shit.. just wait til they find 40 and arthritis starts hitting.
Yesterday my knee was 5-6 in pain. I probably have hundreds
of pain pills from "good meaning" doctors in my cabinets. But
who the hell wants to be popping pills for the rest of their life?
So... just steeled myself and kept working. Today it's back to
normal 1-2 pain. Love winter.
Hell, my (other ex) was addicted to Vicodin, I had to threaten
her Dr to make him stop prescribing them.
Now I keep my strong pills in case someone accidentally cuts
an arm
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" just steeled myself and kept working."
then you pain was not 5-6. 6 being distressed; which would mean you cant work.
probably a 3-5.
Also dangers of door knobs... (Score:2)
So what?
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I was thinking of problems with pickles other than the jar. The kind that gets you a trip to the emergency room.
Now expand this line of thinking to include door knobs.
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If you can't poop out a pickle, you have other problems.
Sound the alarm! (Score:2)
My wrist hurts! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm wearing a wrist brace right now because I held my Nook Color one-handed for too long over the course of a couple of weeks. Obviously I can't say for sure that this was the cause of my pain, but it gets worse when when I hold it in one hand only, and better when I use both hands or support it some other way. I wish I had thought of this before I started using the Nook. Yeah it's not a problem of national concern, and the article uses absurdly alarmist rhetoric, but these are real sources of pain and it's always good to have tips on how to avoid pain.
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Diseases caused by unnatural postures and forces
I Concur, Doctor! (Score:2)
My eyesight has been dwindling over the past 3 or 4 years since I got my 1st Tablet. Now I have to wear reading glasses on a string around my neck everywhere I go! I'm thinking a class action is in order. How many more vibrant, enthusiastic 42yo's must go blind before this atrocity is righted????
PS: Get off my lawn!
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Absolutely! And we should get the crack legal team that took down the jerks responsible for the Opti-Grab!
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One dollar and...NINE CENTS!
I can see it now (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure that.... (Score:2)
One more scare story... (Score:2)
Here come the lawyers (Score:2)
This sounds too much like an opening for tort lawyers to start suing manufacturers and employers.
I RTFA.... (Score:2)
And all I could see on that page was...
Quack, Quack, Quack.....
Anyone else feel the Quackyness of the "doctors" concerns?
Common Sense (Score:2)
When I got my first smartphone, I noticed my thumb started clicking and got sore when using my smartphone a lot. I changed the way I held it and no more problems.
"Doctor, it hurts when I do this, ..."
Sour grapes? (Score:2)
I can see the TV headlines now (Score:2)
"Your iPhone could KILL YOU! Tune in for our special report, today at 5:30."
Touchscreen and driving? (Score:2)
There is even more to worry about than just RSI.
I've wanted to whack some of those pinheads myself.
Now, I don't want to go off on a rant here but:
Put the damn thing DOWN!
Give it a frickin rest!
Tendinitis (Score:2)
Talk to the computer! (Score:2)
I wonder what the doctor would say about (Score:2)
Geeze (Score:2)
People need to hit a gym once in a while if a tablet is going to take them out.
If you use a touchscreen... (Score:2)
Watch the way you slide that finger...
Don't pinch and zoom that picture the wrong way...
Don't overwhelm those accelerometers when playing your favorite games
If you flick don't try to read that text until it stops!
I can confrim ... (Score:3)
I can confirm that ever since I switched to checking Twitter and Facebook (via TweetDeck) heavily on my Android phone (Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 then Arc), I have experienced wrist pain and numbness.
And yes, I spend a couple of hours daily, because I was following the news closely in a troubled part of the world.
Once I got those wrist cuffs that prevent the wrist joint from moving, the pain went away.
Biggest danger of touch screens (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly the biggest danger of touch screens isn't the RSI - it's crashing your car.
Don't ask how I know this.
Will someone think of the children!? :P (Score:4, Insightful)
I've seen parents give their little kids iphones to keep them busy/distracted, and they will stare at that the phone for hours watching videos just 5-6 inches from their faces. This has got to be bad for their eyesight especially when they are 3 or 4 years old still developing...
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And if you think continuously you may burn out your brain cells, as appears to have happened with this researcher.
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It's also the #1 cause of death. Here we are, wasting our time on heart disease and cancer...
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Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've already experienced mild RSI in the thumb after somewhat excessive touch screen use. Same as with mouse and keyboard use. I don't see why this would be something to write off. Rather, it is obvious that it would become a problem at some point.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Funny)
pussy
You should try tablets (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You should try tablets (Score:5, Funny)
If you're touching the screen while there is porn on it... I hate to break it for you, but you're doing it wrong.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
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... at the end of the day, it's probably even more entertaining for everyone involved.
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Because it's fun.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
They aren't necessarily tiresome. Some people can play games all day without hurting themselves.
Musicians learn to avoid building up muscle tension, both in the muscles they use, and sympathetic tension in the muscles they aren't using. They learn to keep good posture, keep their wrists relatively straight, to breathe properly and so forth, and these skills get passed down to new musicians.
The same skills apply to video games. But there's no "classical video game technique". People tense up, have terrible posture, and generally do things that will hurt themselves if they keep it up long enough. It's totally natural, and takes training for most people to avoid it.
I'm not proposing any particular solution to this, but I think some basic training might help with the sort of people who injure themselves playing video games. Certainly the ways to avoid RSI are non-obvious, whether you're playing Street Fighter or sitting in an office typing all day.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Musicians learn to avoid building up muscle tension, both in the muscles they use, and sympathetic tension in the muscles they aren't using. They learn to keep good posture, keep their wrists relatively straight, to breathe properly and so forth, and these skills get passed down to new musicians.
Musicians also learn to take breaks, not to play too long at a time, or (as frequently happens) they end up with injuries that are destructive to their musical careers. They cannot play all day without hurting themselves, regardless of how awesome their form, posture, and breathing is.
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Um, those aren't musicians. They're noise-makers.
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Why? Seems pretty likely they'll fall over and crack their skills on the ground trying to throw a punch.
Because it pertains to nerds (Score:5, Informative)
What are you talking about? Good on you for having great health.
Meanwhile plenty of geeks suffer from computer-related health problems. The most common up to now has been carpal tunnel or repetitive stress syndrome.
The advent of touchscreens means people are bending their necks downward for extended periods. For many/most it may not be a problem.
For others, it can result in cervical spondylosis [google.com], a debilitating condition of the neck.
The reason for such articles is to encourage people to take preventive measures. One of the best is Workrave [workrave.org], a break reminder program for Win and Lin. Click to install [deb]. (Deb/Ub/Mint)
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What are you talking about? Good on you for having great health.
Meanwhile plenty of geeks suffer from computer-related health problems. The most common up to now has been carpal tunnel or repetitive stress syndrome.
One trip to a REAL doctor and you'll find that CTS, really doesn't
exist for people that use computers, correctly.
I can give you the number to a real Dr, if you'd like to talk to him.
I'm sure he would have loved to make the money from the surgery
on my ex-wife's wrist. Instead, he said... adjust your chair height
to where your arm, at 45 degree extension, will have your radius/ulna
parallel and about an inch above the desk surface. Buy a gel pad
for the kb and the mouse and you'll be fine in a few months.
And she
Re:Because it pertains to nerds (Score:4, Funny)
Umm.... so, your point is that you agree with the parent's advice to prevent the issues from becoming a major health problem.... Got it.
I'd like to take you seriously . . . (Score:5, Funny)
But, your use of, commas, has driven me to, bang my head, against my desk . . .
. . .resulting in CST. I got a gel pad though so I'll be fine in a few months.
Re:I'd like to take you seriously . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares about the commas? What I hate is the constant line breaks for no apparent reason.
The web browser handles text formatting no reason for you to make it mobile sized.
Bet
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Lawsuits (Score:3)
This Tessler guy is just doing the foundation work for future lawsuits.
Just watch, in several years someone will sue Apple or other tablet makers and Tessler will be in the expert witness seat.
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Or you self diagnoses was wrong.
OR, here is an idea: maybe there are different severity? Shocking I know.. well, shocking to simpletons like you.
ou will get symptoms that appear to be CTS and RSD... but aren't. CT scan will prove it.
No, the symptoms are precursor to CTS and/or RSD. Like many thing, when acted upon soon, you can recover.
You did the right thing, but you inplication that it applies to every case is stupid and harmful.
And no myth is not busted, but your ignorance and arrogance has been confirme
Re:Because it pertains to nerds (Score:4, Informative)
Adjusting your seat is a good advice, but you should also change your position.
When your body starts to hurt, just listen to it, and change your position by straightening your back, it's very simple and effective.
Also, I recommend using a Trackball, because it's the horizontal movements when using a mouse that hurt your wrist.
I personally use a Microsoft trackball, mine is at least 6 years old, and still working nicely.
Re:Because it pertains to nerds (Score:5, Informative)
I doubt that. People have been reporting problems before touch screens. Blackberry users, for example, but also people who text a lot on their non-touchscreen phones.
The medical condition is real, but the cause is not - it's not a recent thing brought on the explosion of touch screens - it's been around for years. Notably brought on because the folks with blackberries (out over a decade) tend to be older businesspeople and thus experienced it years before. Or people texting on their phones for nearly two decades now. And young kids have been glued to their Nintendo portables for nearly 2 1/2 decades.
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But it is new to a lot of people. So to make people aware that there is a risk, and you should take step to mitigate it is the responsible thing to do.
Not that I'm defending the author. I mean how far can we trust someone who states:
"as well as the Wi-Fi radios in various devices. The research here has been contradictory, though the risk is probably low if you follow the manufacturers' guidelines for safe use."
No, there is no good evidence to support it. all provocation tests have be negative, all blinded t
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The advent of touchscreens means people are bending their necks downward for extended periods
Ever thought about, you know, holding the touch screen up, instead?
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Because loads of people here are buying into the nonsense that touchscreens are so awesome [worrydream.com] and the future of everything.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Informative)
Touchscreens are awesome, and they are the future of a lot of human-computer interaction. They're simply not a substitute for a real keyboard, or a properly arranged physical workspace.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:4, Insightful)
Touchscreens are awesome, and they are the future of a lot of human-computer interaction.
No, touchscreens suck ass. They're only good when you're doing very basic operations which don't require much control.
The only device I use on a regular basis which might not totally suck ass with a touchscreen is my e-book reader, and even there I'd much rather press a button to go to the next page than have to make some stupid gesture.
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Informative)
They're only good when you're doing very basic operations which don't require much control.
Which covers surprisingly many activities (time-wise). You listed one yourself - book reading. Now also think newspapers, and everything else online that's "consume only" - i.e. where you don't rush to post a witty comment as soon as you read it, as is the case on Slashdot.
The perfect device would have both touchscreen and keyboard+mouse/trackpad/trackpoint, and will adjust to whatever controls you're using at the moment. We're already seeing this emerge with Asus Transformer, Lenovo Thinkpad tablet, and other similar devices on hardware side, and Win8 (and, to some extent, Android) on software side.
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"buying into"? no. Touch screen are awesome. I can do a lot of things the is far more difficult with an actual keyboard.
I was concerned I would miss my keyboard when I went from a G1 to an Nexus S. The touch screen is far better and quicker.
That sight completely misses the point.
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This gets a 5? Really?
I didn't believe RSI existed until I actually got it myself, with pain going from my hand, around my elbow up to my shoulder. Previously I had thought that RSI was no big deal and I thought it was psychosomatic.
I found out that RSI can be some serious friggin' pain. The hard way.
The culprit was the Logitech MX1000 that I bought. One of the early laser mice. It's a pile of shit shaped into a huge lump that makes you cock your wrist back if you let your wrist lay on the desk.
It did
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Funny, I had been using mice since the early 80s without using any kind of pad with a wrist rest.
But by your terse message it's my fault that after decades of not using a mouse pad with a wrist rest, I somehow should have known that I needed one? That i needed a mouse pad with tits? Like the ridiculous one as the first result?
Get fucking real.
The MX1000 resides in the trash and I have given up on mice altogether, especially the high-backed ones. My cursor devices consist of a touchpad, trackball, and dra
Re:Why is this crap even on Slashdot? (Score:5, Funny)
Come on.
To piss you off.
Seriously, that's the only reason. It's posted to troll you, personally.
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Well, it's "for nerds" because we all use these devices, but it isn't "news that natters" because it's not news; we already know about RMS (repetetive motion syndrome, not Richard Stallman) etc because most of us have experienced it.
TFA is really bad, though. It claims that the danger of cell phone radiation is "inconclusive", when the facts are that not a single study has shown that cell phones or CRTs cause cancer or brain damage. It's not badly written but spans seven screens; I shouldn't have even click
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damn...
Well, if it wasn't for your stress injuries from tablet use,
yes you might have been frosty piss.
Maybe this is actionable... call an ambulance chaser!
-AI
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If my goddamned phone touchscreen doesn't stop getting wonky every time the relative humidity gets above "desert" then there's going to be a hidden danger of me throwing it against the fucking wall.
FWIW, due to the economy, we have lots of homes available
to buy or rent, here in the desert.
lol
-AI
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Weird how it's changed even since the 1980's. I was a kid then, and remember many times coming inside bleeding from something I'd just done to myself, and my mother would respond with something like "Oh, you hurt your leg? Well let me chop off the other one so it hurts the same on both sides of your body." This same woman, 25 years later, suggested to me in all seriousness that I should make my toddler wear a helmet IN THE HOUSE. At all times.
Some of that is obviously because of her age (clearly she's gone