Severe Arctic Ozone Loss 259
iONiUM writes
"The BBC reports that 'Ozone loss over the Arctic this year was so severe that for the first time it could be called an "ozone hole" like the Antarctic one, scientists report. About 20km (13 miles) above the ground, 80% of the ozone was lost, they say. The cause was an unusually long spell of cold weather at altitude. In cold conditions, the chlorine chemicals that destroy ozone are at their most active.' This is the first time in observational history that the Arctic ozone has been depleted to such extensive levels (abstract). This will mean high UV problems for Russia, Greenland and Norway."
Note to self... (Score:2)
Note to self... Don't sun-bathe in the arctic... and wear layers.
Honestly though, it's been a while since I've seen much news about the Ozone layer. I hope people haven't forgotten that the damage done (or being done) is a problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Note to self... Don't sun-bathe in the arctic...
Good advice for anybody living around the arctic circle, as "a day out basking in the sun" there translates into a 6 month exposure and an epic sunburn.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmmm, I really wonder though. The sun is rarely up in the sky at these latitudes, so it is very highly unlikely that the sun's rays will go through the ozone hole and hit you. The rays that hit you go through the atmosphere much lower than the hole, so there should be no (or little) danger - at least, related to the ozone hole mentioned.
That, and the fact that the lower the sun is in the sky, the less UV you get since it goes through the atmosphere at a steep angle traversing the ozone layer on a diagonal w
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I know you're being flippant, but the damage you allude to is that being 'close' to an ozone hole causes elevated UV levels. Melanoma city, man. This has been a problem in Australia for some time because of the antarctic ozone hole. And test cricket.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How much are you willing to bet that this will be used to try to debunk global warming because there is an area that has colder then average weather.
As much as I would be willing to bet that this will be used to try to prove global warming because there is an area that has colder than average weather.
Re: (Score:2)
I hate to break it to you, but the original paper in question actually cites stratospheric thermal isolation due to increased levels of CO2 as a possible cause of the lower temperatures. It doesn't go into any depth, because that's not what the paper is about, but that's not an idea that comes from nowhere.
Re: (Score:3)
This isn't like that. Stratospheric cooling due to heat trapped in the troposphere is an easy phenomenon to see and is clearly related to the basic expectations of global warming.
Re: (Score:3)
The proof is in frequency, average temperature, average rain fall and yes greenhouse effects mean heat is trapped at the surface and the stratosphere get's dramatically colder.
This is also the argument proposed by some scientists that suggest such huge differences in localize temperature, could themselves become a powerful heat engine, creating a scenario for a hyper-cane or some weird weather phenomenon like it. Such a storm would be much taller than normal and pull supercold air down through its eye, flas
Re: (Score:3)
The cold in question is in the stratosphere, not the troposphere. It hasn't been particularly cold on the surface.
Re: (Score:3)
The cold in question is in the stratosphere, not the troposphere. It hasn't been particularly cold on the surface
Polar amplification (faster warming of the polar troposphere) and stratospheric cooling are both successful predictions of the much maligned climate models. By successful I mean they were found in 1980's models and have since been observed in the real world.
Stratospheric cooling has something to do with pressure, I don't fully understand the physics but it goes something like this....A GHG molecule in the stratosphere can travel a further distance before hitting another atom/molecule and is therefore mor
Re: (Score:3)
We can deal with only one problem at a time. And Carbon won by popular vote.
Actually, the ozone layer won, because we actually did something about it back in the 70s and 80s. But you are right, the next problem came along and everybody thought the hole in the ozone layer was solved.
How much are you willing to bet that this will be used to try to debunk global warming because there is an area that has colder then average weather.
I would not bet a thing. This bozo [slashdot.org] already beat you to it!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'll bet those CFCs were even banned.
Re: (Score:3)
CFC might be a good name for a band. I've heard worse....
If a bunch of people presumably smart enough to run a particle accelerator can't figure out how to recycle CFCs - something every car mechanic on the planet figured out decades ago - you should check your dosimeter reports very carefully.
Re: (Score:2)
Frustrating, isn't it. Irritates me no end when someone hears that we just had, for example, "the coldest August day in x years" (or coldest month/year/etc), and then starts ranting about how global warming must therefore be completely made up.
Never mind the fact that for every minimum temperature record that's getting set around these parts nowadays, there's at least 5 maximum temp records being set (no matter which time scale you look at - daily, monthly, yearly). As you say, that 'probability curve' has
Re: (Score:2)
The cold is not in the troposphere, it's in the stratosphere. Cold stratosphere is usually correlated with warm temperatures in the troposphere, which is exactly what we've had, and has had a lot to do with the greater than average ice melt this season.
Re: (Score:3)
isn't it always half a degree colder in NL than elsewhere?
Possible to manufacture ozone and seed? (Score:3)
The concentrations of O3 in question are quite small. Would manufacturing (or capturing surface ozone, which is a pollutant when here with us surface dwellers) O3, lofting tanks on high altitude balloons over the poles and releasing it help?
I realize how insane this sounds.
Re: (Score:3)
Ozone has a very short half life; it breaks down quickly. It is why it is used as an oxidation sanitizer. It is also very unhealthy to be around. I can smell O3 coming from printers that need their Ozone filters replaced, but it is supposedly odorless. The funny thing is, I can't smell anything else very well.
Better Links (Score:3)
I call bullshit (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In general chemical reactions will happen faster in higher temperatures. As with almost everything, this is not always the case. Some reactions have more complex kinetics required to make them happen, which can be faster or slower with an increase in temperature.
Re: (Score:2)
If I remember correctly "It has been a long time since Chem class so I could be wrong" those tend to complex organic reactions which is not the case here.
Since Ozone is constantly being created and destroyed in the upper atmosphere I am guessing that the lower energy means less 03 is being created so the balance between creation and destruction shifts.
Or it could be that the colder temperatures causes the Chorine compounds to stay stable longer and do more harm.
Or any combination. So yes the report is prob
Re: (Score:2)
Alright, you forced me into actual reading. Apparently the low temperatures reduce the rate at which the chlorine-oxide intermediate reacts with nitrogen dioxide to remove the chloride free-radical from the system. Sooner-Boomer made me mad with his "those professional scientists don't even know high school chemistry" bullshit so I went off half-cocked.
Sorry.
Re: (Score:3)
This is just more environmental fear mongering and finger pointing without scientific proof.
Exactly how would that be different from what you're doing?
Other than the people supposedly doing the fear mongering and finger pointing are scientists and have evidence, where as you aren't, you don't, and you have already demonstrated the depth of your ignorance on the topic. You are demonstrating the classic symptoms of the Dunning-Kruger effect [wikipedia.org].
Re:I call bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
That applies to a solitary chemical reaction. Atmospheric chemistry deals with equilibria. Equilibria shift with temperature.
Re:I call bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
It's mostly true that reactions dependent on kinetics speed up with temperature. Ozone holes, though, are a very very different process. The ozone hole results from surface reactions on polar stratospheric clouds. The colder it gets, the easier it is for those clouds to form, and the more severe the rate of ozone depletion.
Do some homework before calling "bullshit".
(I am an atmospheric chemist, I am not your atmospheric chemist, etc...)
Another thing I can't bring myself to care about! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The CFCs are still a problem that had lessened, but because of abnormal temperatures in the Arctic, their remaining effects were magnified a great deal.
Re: (Score:3)
What we are "supposed to do" is just wait.
the ban only took effect in 1996 (phasing out was started in 1991), with some CFCs (CFC-13, 111, 112, various halon variants, etc.) only getting fully eliminated last year.
The issue is that CFCs are very long lived. It takes decades for them to break down. We won't really start seeing the effect of the bans on the ozone layer for another 20-30 years. Until then, we just have to deal with it.
Little more detail (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.noaa.gov/features/02_monitoring/arctic_thinning.html [noaa.gov]
The "coldness" of the pole is related to the strength of the winds (polar vortex) around the pole in the atmosphere. The south pole generally has strong winds circling it, which works to cut off the south pole's atmosphere from the rest of the world, especially during the southern hemisphere winter. Part of the reason for a stronger vortex is due to ocean surrounding the south pole on all sides, with land masses far away. In addition, the southern hemisphere in general has more ocean compared to land than the northern hemisphere.
In the northern hemisphere, the polar vortex generally has more waves or pertubations in the polar vortex, which help to mix in air from lower latitudes. Some of this is caused by planetary waves that propagate vertically in the atmosphere. These planetary waves are formed generally due to land masses and mountains affecting the atmospheric flow (not this simple but this is the general idea). Generally, the factor that causes the difference in the north and south polar vortices is land mass.
Now relating this all to climate is a bit tricky. It has been seen that as the troposphere warms (lowest layer of the atmosphere), the stratosphere cools. This has been seen in observations in the last 30-50 years (you may argue that 50 years might not be enough to define a long-term trend). The reason for this cooling is basically radiative balance (though I'm oversimplifying it here). If the troposphere warms due to increased greenhouse gasses, then the atmosphere above must cool above it. There cannot be more heat coming in than is leaving the Earth. A good analog to this is Venus. Venus has huge concentrations of greenhouse gasses. We know its surface is very hot (over 400 degrees C), while its upper atmosphere is much cooler than Earth's (gets down below -110 degrees C, compared to about -80 C on Earth).
The tough part is separating the stratospheric cooling due to greenhouse gasses and ozone destruction from CFCs (although we may know this answer once all the CFCs are out of the atmosphere in the future). Increased greenhouse gasses will warm the troposphere and cool the stratosphere. This will lead to more polar stratospheric clouds, leading to more reactions sites for ozone destruction. More ozone destruction means less UV light is absorbed by ozone in the stratosphere. Less UV absorption means a cooler stratosphere which further intensifies the problem.
Re: (Score:2)
If I hadn't already commented in the article, I'd mod you up. Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about and doesn't want to post some knee-jerk denialist garbage.
When is a Hole not a Whole Hole? (Score:3)
The Science News [sciencenews.org] story has some words of caution of equating this 'hole' to the Antarctic hole:
(sorry, Slashdot still protects us against dangerous quotation marks)
Re:Global warming (Score:5, Informative)
Global warming due to CO2 == heat is trapped in the troposphere => less heat lost => colder stratosphere.
If the global warming was due to the Sun, the whole atmosphere would be warming.
On the other hand, Venus has runaway greenhouse effect and its stratosphere is abnormally cold.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Venus stratosphere ranges between 385C and 75C.
This is abnormally cold to you?
Re: (Score:2)
Considering the surface temperature is 460C, sure.
Re: (Score:2)
Yea you guys always find excuses.
Re: (Score:2)
Well I for one think that "finding excuses" as you put it is a lot better than putting your fingers in your ear and going lalala until people stop trying to talk to you.
Show me a model (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, Venus is a good example because people best undersand extremes. If you want to demonstrate the effects of greenhouse gases, what better way than to point to a planet where they compose the vast majority of the atmosphere? Venus is what would happen if all of the Earth's atmosphere were to be replaced with greenhouse gases.
If you look at, say, Mars and Venus, you have the two opposites. Earth stands somewhere along the two; global warming is inching us closer to Venus. We'll never actually reach Ve
Re: (Score:2)
I perosnally think we all orginally lived on Venus, and then because of all our gas guzzling cars screwed the atmosphere, the socialist governernment, Illuminiati, Masons and United Nations got together, put us all to sleep, then transferred us over to earth, which they had terraformed to be the same as Venus. Thats the real reason that there have been few probes sent to Venus, we'd see all of the cities and everything.
They're currently looking at Mars to do the same thing.
Re:Global warming (Score:5, Insightful)
The air has been exceptionally cold up there? Where is all that global warming everyone is speaking about?
Mr. Republican/Tea party member, the correct term is "Climate Change".
Enjoy the rest of your science bashing day.
Can you point to a time... any time in history when earth was NOT experiencing "Climate Change"?
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think you get what the parent was talking about:
http://pastebin.com/BBquTAt3 [pastebin.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Can you point to a time... any time in history when earth was NOT experiencing "Climate Change"?
Can you point to a time... any time in history when the earth experience warming on the scale that it is now when it should have actually been cooling.
The people who spend their lives studying the climate are quite familiar with the way it changes over time. You didn't really surprise them with this stunning revelation. The problem is not that it is changing, but the rate of change.
But then you knew that, because it has been pointed out to you time and time again and yet you still spew out the same uninform
Re: (Score:2)
This is a spurious argument. There's no "should" here. Life has been affecting the climate since nearly the beginning, and vice versa. That we're doing it is no worse than any other life form changing the climate, local or global. The difference between now and history is that we are able to determine that our activities are going to change the climate in a way that's likely to be detrimental to our life and to other life forms that we care about, and we've also determined that we can avoid that outcome
Re:Global warming (Score:5, Informative)
No, of course he can't. Climate changes due to natural events and cycles. I don't think anyone denies that.
However, he can point out that according to the best figures we have, the climate is currently changing at a far greater rate than has occurred previously (outside of major extinction events), and that that pace of change cannot be explained by natural causes alone. We are seeing changes over decades-to-centuries time frames that would normally take millennia (or longer).
Re: (Score:2)
No, of course he can't. Climate changes due to natural events and cycles. I don't think anyone denies that.
However, he can point out that according to the best figures we have, the climate is currently changing at a far greater rate than has occurred previously (outside of major extinction events), and that that pace of change cannot be explained by natural causes alone. We are seeing changes over decades-to-centuries time frames that would normally take millennia (or longer).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Thames_frost_fairs [wikipedia.org]
The river Thames rarely freezes today. I believe the last time was in 1963 and even then it was extremely rare. Of course, during the "little ice age" that started ending a couple of hundred years ago, it was a yearly occurrence as shown by the annual fairs that were held on the frozen river. So, in less than 200 years, the river has gone from freezing annually to almost never freezing. Note that this "little ice age" ended before the industrial revo
Re: (Score:2)
We're warming ON TOP of the post-Little Ice Age warming. You are attacking a strawman.
Re: (Score:2)
Great rationalisation. So many uses! Nuclear testing:
Can you point to a time... any time in history when earth was NOT experiencing "radioactive heating"?
Mass poisoning:
Can you point to a time... any time in history when this town was NOT experiencing "heavy metal exposure"?
Taking a dump on your lunch:
Can you point to a time... any time in history when your body was NOT experiencing "coliform bacteria in the digestive tract"?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
since the environuts have lost the polar bear debate
In whose mind? Compare global warming awareness today to 10 years ago - there are significant policies in place and continued effort at carbon emission reductions....
Re: (Score:2)
So the ends justify the means.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
So the ends justify the means.
Ozone hole deniers and global warming through CO2 deniers are both the same, people who refuse to believe that physics works.
Re: (Score:2)
So, how exactly did a level of CFCs that are now a fraction of a percentage point of any modern-era level -- to the point where they're now banning fucking *asthma inhalers* -- somehow cause the largest "ozone hole" in recorded history? This seems to suggest that we've either gone completely overboard trying to banish every last trace of something useful in an act of complete futility and political masturbation, last year was an epic flaming catastrophe with millions of halon-extinguished fires (since that'
Re: (Score:3)
So, how exactly did a level of CFCs that are now a fraction of a percentage point of any modern-era level -- to the point where they're now banning fucking *asthma inhalers* -- somehow cause the largest "ozone hole" in recorded history?
Because it can take up to 2 years for a CFC molecule to make its way up to the ozone layer. And after that, it's not the CFC that directly breaks down the ozone, it's when the molecule itself is broken down by radiation that it then reacts, which can take decades. So banning CFCs won't instantly fix the problem; it takes time to see the results - perhaps till around 2030-40.
Re: (Score:3)
So, how exactly did a level of CFCs that are now a fraction of a percentage point of any modern-era level -- to the point where they're now banning fucking *asthma inhalers* -- somehow cause the largest "ozone hole" in recorded history?
So, how did you jump to the conclusion that CFC levels are the only factor affecting ozone levels?
As someone who got hit with a $1,800 AC repair bill ~9 years ago for something that should have been a $65 refill (because they had to basically tear out and replace the car's entire air conditioner),
Uh no. Because Freon is $50/lb, or more and your car would take probably 1.5 lb or more, the freon alone would cost you $75. Of course, it's only that expensive because we outlawed its production in this country, but seriously, you will only come off as a luddite if you rail against that. Harmful compounds are harmful.
It's too bad you had to pay $1800 for a conversion, which basically consists of dismounting th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps if there were "WTF" moderation since physics has less to do with the ozone hole than environment and chemistry. But yes, flaimbait would have been more appropriate.
Chemistry is a subset of physics. Environment is made up of matter, which falls under physics. Please try again. Or on second though, don't.
P.S. When I spell a word correctly and you spell it incorrectly in your ignorant reply, you look even more ignorant than you would have anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think we need to thank GWB for these efforts for carbon emission. He allowed our Gas prices to go over $4.00 a gallon. Causing people to look towards more fuel efficient cars. Compare that to Clinton who kept gas prices really low causing almost every American to get huge SUVs.
The reason why the emission reductions are working now is the fact for most businesses it means saving money because fuel is too expensive. And saying you support a green movement is just good PR which sound better then we cann
Re: (Score:2)
I think we need to thank GWB for these efforts for carbon emission. He allowed our Gas prices to go over $4.00 a gallon
Agreed - I was astonished that people voted for his re-election as prices were spiraling upwards. Though, I don't think there was a single green thought at the highest levels that year, as I recall, the oil companies posted all time record high profits that year.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So true. After all, that agreement really put the brakes on China stinking up the planet.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You only just noticed that you have higher gas prices in europe than america? Well you are a special kind of retarded aren't you.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You are incorrect. http://www.skepticalscience.com/polar-bears-global-warming.htm [skepticalscience.com]
The polar bear population was estimated in the 50s and 60s to be 5k-10k. This was based on anecdotal evidence of hunters and explorers, so it likely underestimates the population back then. Today, it's estimated to 20k-25k. That is not even one order of magnitude, let alone several.
Additionally, a scientific analysis of polar bear sub-populations shows that the number of increasing sub-populations is declining (only 1 of th
Re:Where have I seen this before (Score:4, Insightful)
> But hey make up your mind, is this Arctic cold snap caused by Global Warming too, or what?
Yes. The colder air than usual in the stratosphere is caused by the fact that greenhouse gases insulate so much that less heat escape to space. Common sense actually. So yes, this phenomenon is a very good indication that the greenhouse effect is both real and increasing.
Really, only the anti-science loony fringe denies global climate changes now a days, the scientific evidence for man made influence on the present climate change keep on coming, and is getting confirmed from many different sources. AFAIK, not a single scientific study trying to find other causes than human influence, have succeded in explaining what is going on.
--
Regards
Re: (Score:3)
I am not a climate scientist. I am a former telecommunications engineer (I contributed to 802.11n standardisation process) who now works in market making (gotta follow the dollar when you have young mouths to feed). Explain to me in a way
Re: (Score:2)
I think what he is saying is that the heat trapping layer is below the stratosphere. So IR comes in heats the ground. If there is a layer of insulation it prevents the heat from traveling up into the stratosphere.
Kind of like if you heat your house in the winter the more insulation the colder the attic is.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know much about climate myself, but I do know that the atmosphere is several layers of chemically goodness.
If the heat is trapped below the area where most of the ozone resides than the heat wouldn't get to pass through the ozone layer on its way out into space, thus not being able to warm it. When I tried to look up the phenomena in an article I read recently all they said was that it was generally accepted that increased surface temperature results in chillier atmosphere (which is not a helpful ex
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I think we have a winner, and thankfully it wasn't a car analogy!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The heat is being trapped in the troposphere, and hence not reaching the stratosphere. The more heat that gets trapped in the troposphere and cannot escape into the stratosphere, the less thermal energy there is in the stratosphere. Therefore the troposphere's temperature increases (the troposphere is where the climate we care most about basically happens) and as a direct result the stratosphere's temperature decreass.
Re: (Score:3)
I am sure that recent volcanic activity alone has affected the global climate far more than human activity.
Well, you're DEAD WRONG. Volcanoes emit about 1% as much CO2 as human activities. Look it up. The main effect of volcanoes is *cooling* caused by ash, which only lasts a couple of years max.
Every time you see someone mention volcanoes as the culprit in a discussion about GW, you can be sure that they don't have a frigging clue what they're talking about, and everything they post can be safely ignored.
Re: (Score:2)
Volcanoes emit about 1% as much CO2
You know that CO2 is nowhere near being the "worst" greenhouse gas, right? Why are you even discussing CO2 when you should be discussing methane and water vapor?
Re: (Score:2)
Nice attempt to distract attention from your lack of knowledge on the subject by switching topics. Back to the point: Volcanoes are not significant sources of methane or water vapor either.
Methane released by human activities is a significant problem.
Water vapor has a half life in the atmosphere of a couple of days. It's levels are an *effect*, not a cause.
(Of course I should have taken my own advice, saved futile effort, and ignored your post.)
Re: (Score:3)
Global warming of about 0.8 deg C over the last 100 years [wikipedia.org]. Mt. Pinatubo's 1991 eruption cooled the earth by 0.6 deg C [nasa.gov]. Looks to me that one good volcanic eruption can cancel an entire century of global warming. Now add up all the volcanic eruptions we've had in the last century... I think you'll find they affect the climate a lot more than than man-made CO2.
It can cancel it ... for a couple of years. Then of course when the ash and sulfur falls out of the atmosphere, temperatures go right back up. We don't get the biggest volcanic eruption in a century as an annual event.
FFS - does anybody here have reasoning skills beyond a 3rd grade level?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, except for the fact that CO2 is actually fairly effective at absorbing IR in certain windows, so it's not a minimal effect. Moreover, the change in energy budget from increase CO2 has knock-off effects on the other, more potent greenhouse gasses, specifically H2O. It's these positive feedbacks that drive a lot of the climate change, not just the direct effects of CO2, although those aren't minimal either.
Re: (Score:3)
Problem with that is no model has ever worked without including the effects of CO2.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. The colder air than usual in the stratosphere is caused by the fact that greenhouse gases insulate so much that less heat escape to space. Common sense actually.
You have a very optimistic understanding of what common sense is. Most people don't seem to understand that local and regional climate variations can be a lot bigger than global variations. Take for example my country of Norway, if I compare us to say Siberia or Alaska we probably have 3-4C warmer climate because of the Gulf Stream, while the estimates on global warming are something like 0.8C in the last 100 years. If global warming fucks up that, our country and most of Northern Europe could end up being
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, all the things you listed except for global cooling have been problems and have either been addressed, or we've learned to live with them. Overpopulation is a problem, even if it's not in your neck of the woods. A lot of the world is poor and has too many people living in cramped quarters to effectively provide for them. Acid rain is still a problem, though mitigated by programs to reduce SO2 output, but nobody talks about it because it's not exciting enough to be newsworthy. The ozone problem
Re: (Score:3)
Holes in the ozone layer can have very significant effects on humans in regions were those holes exists. The ozone layer protects the sur
Re: (Score:2)
If you think the world is "back to normal" you've been living in a very weird world for the last 30 years.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
In this case you are wrong. Global warming has EVERYTHING to do with the hole in the ozone layer. Greenhouse gases that cause global warming also cause a cooling in the upper atmosphere and THAT is the cause of the ozone hole, because the CFC chemicals that destroy ozone are activated by low temperatures.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, I live and learn. Today I've learned that, although overshadowed by climate change denialists in the larger environmental debate, there are anthropogenic ozone depletion denialists as well. And they have research from "think tanks" to back them up.
Predicting the size and shape of the ozone hole basically amounts to weather prediction plus additional complicating factors. Weather prediction is hard enough already, so if no-one has an exact model that predicts the size of the ozone hole, I can understan
Re: (Score:2)
This is all well and good, but is this climate a recent turn of events or is it like that since as long as you can remember?
Re:Where have I seen this before (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
it would be nice to be able to reach through the screen and tear him a new asshole, or rip off his head and shit down his neck
This is the hallmark of pretty much all fanatics everywhere. Well done. Why don't you throw in a couple Allahu-ackbars too, before you decapitate me?
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, it's the hallmark of frustrated people everywhere. Some of those people are frustrated fanatics, some are not.
Re: (Score:3)
How about you deal with the science and cut the smug egotism, asshole. Some scientists believe the climate is warming due to human activity released CO2. Some do not. Either say why you believe the first group of scientists, and why you are not bothered by the politics and the lying which have been exposed - or SHUT THE FUCK UP. Your choice. Demonizing those who do not willingly accept force-fed imperatives is not productive. Yeah, I can't force you to do this, any more than you can reach across the interne
Re: (Score:2)
Careful. Many of the more hardcore wackjob denialists think that anyone who wants to reduce carbon emissions is a crypto-communist-revolutionary (they call them "watermelons" - "green on the outside, red on the inside") who wants to commit genocide against the denialists as part of their plan to create a socialist one-world-government. Don't give them any ammo.
You see, that's where they win all the time. They can say anything they want. But aside from the one world government, that all sounds good.
Besides, with free trade we already have what amounts to a one world government, it's hardly socialist.
Re: (Score:2)
Just because it makes me angry that assholes like you don't care that we are destroying the earth. Which I will admit, is exactly what you want. You win that one.
I fail to see how that makes me a martyr? Or how me being pissed off proves or disproves anything?
What it proves is that you will jump on anything and call it proof.
Re: (Score:2)
So because the media can't portray complex scientific problems correctly means that global warming or the ozone hole aren't actually issues?
Re: (Score:2)