18-Year-Old Student Discovers Comet Break-Up 68
astroengine writes "It's an event that any professional astronomer would consider to be a once-in-a-lifetime discovery. But for one 18-year-old British student, witnessing the fragmentation of a comet she was studying became the highlight of a summer work experience program using the Faulkes Telescope Project. However, that was just the icing on the cake; Hannah Blyth of St. Johns College, Cardiff, also assisted in the discovery of over 20 previously unknown asteroids, two of which she discovered herself. It is extremely rare to spot a fragmenting comet, but for an amateur (let alone an 18-year-old student on work experience), this is an incredible achievement."
lucky person gets lucky (Score:2)
fair enough a once in a lifetime occurence
it's presumably rare as hen's teeth to see, rather than requiring skill other than basic capability, its more luck
i guess she's gonna wait a while for a another significant spotting, unless she's well ahead in the favour of lady luck
good on her seeing something cool though
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Many PhDs, researchers, grads are produced per year and a limited count of fully funded "telescopes" - usually in demand and something coveted.
Re:lucky person gets lucky (Score:4, Insightful)
Filling the young people who are just about to set off down their academic path with enthusiasm and excitement for all the Really Cool Things you get to do with science, obviously.
Their investment paid off.
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What are the rest of the UK's top 'space' science people doing if they have "work experience" people using telescopes?
Many PhDs, researchers, grads are produced per year and a limited count of fully funded "telescopes" - usually in demand and something coveted.
As the other reply says, inspiring the next generation.
We have some 18 year old students for 6 weeks over the summer, doing science. Also, about 10 university students work here for a year between 2nd and 3rd year ("year in industry"). Most of them learn loads, the university students make a good contribution, the pre-uni ones probably do to (none in my department) and many of them eventually work here, or somewhere similar, after graduating. Part of our remit is to educate.
I work in IT, so what the scie
Re:lucky person gets lucky (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds to me like she pushed the shutter button and happened to capture something remarkable when analyzed by an expert.
Apparently she not only took the photos but was also the one who first noticed something out of the ordinary, according to the first article. Of course she was lucky to be looking at the right patch of sky at the right moment. But luck is always part of the equation in this kind of discovery, and we do tend to make a point of mentioning who was looking. This shows that taking part makes a difference. That's pretty exciting.
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It is pretty exciting - not just for astronomers in general, but also (and especially) for her. If it fosters her interest in astronomy or just science in general even more, that is also very exciting. It's also exciting that this is one of many recent stories about young people making these discoveries - and part of that is because the barrier to entry has become pretty low.
But what it isn't, is "an incredible achievement". This doesn't diminish the fact that she's the one that spotted it and should get
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Yawn.
No, WAKE UP! [wikipedia.org]
GOOD FOR HER! (Score:4, Insightful)
Good for her! This is what British science used to be about. The quest for knowledge and discovery is what once made the UK a scientific superpower. The neverending thirst for understanding that cannot be quenched. The burning desire to see further and deeper than has been seen before. The uncontainable urge to explore the unknown. The raging curiosity. The screaming need for enlightenment. The arousal of the inquisitive mind. The yearning for greater power of the mind. The want of all know-how. The needling pain of not knowing.
It is because of these urges that we now know glorious names today, like Francis Bacon, Roger Bacon, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, James D. Watson, Francis Crick, and Alan Cox.
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The predicates are implied. The GP used a construct that's common in British English, but relatively rare in American English. Take the third sentence and replace the "The quest for knowledge and discovery" part of it with the sentences that follow. You'll then get complete sentences like, "The neverending thirst for understanding that cannot be quenched is what once made the UK a scientific superpower." and "The burning desire to see further and deeper than has been seen before is what once made the UK a s
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Yeah, but your suggestion is very complicated to read (because of the long sentences) and your GPs way of putting it made perfectly sense.
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Yes, I do speak English and so I understood the sentence. The grammar crumbles when that half-sentence construct takes up half the paragraph. It should be just a few, like "The Larch! The Fir! The mighty Scots Pine!" and go back to actual sentences. Just like in programming, just because it works doesn't mean it's good.
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Captain Grammar loans you, like, two commas.
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Captain Grammar loans you, like, two commas.
To hell with that! Colonel Punctuation GIVES you a small order of semicolons, free of charge. Use them well.
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Oh hell, I laughed.
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If we are going to get, well, picky. How about "spectacular tales of gas"? Is this a "Brit Speak" thing? It occurred in more than one place. I was just wondering.
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Re:GOOD FOR HER! (Score:5, Insightful)
Also a healthy respect for the amateur scientist.
I've been recently writing a paper about the early mathematical work on solitary waves - guys like Laplace, Lagrange, Russell, etc. A surprising number of them were "gentlemen of science" who did it for the love, and because that's what gentlemen of science did. They didn't have research grants or teaching posts. Well, Russell did get all of 300 pounds to study shallow water, and that was a lot at the time, but not when considering that naval power and maritime trade were so important. But a lot of them were just guys who maybe came from wealthy families and were into scientific stuff.
20 astroids... That's it? (Score:1)
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Good for her! This is what British science used to be about. The quest for knowledge and discovery is what once made the UK a scientific superpower.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring nationality into this, but it's interesting to note that this is an American girl, in the UK, using telescopes in Australia and Maui. When it comes to science, borders don't mean much any more.
YOU SEE SCIENCE AS A PROBLEM? FUCK YOU, BUDDY! (Score:1, Insightful)
What in the fuck are you talking about? This is fundamental scientific knowledge. Yes, this should receive public money, regardless of what other "problems" might exist.
I truly can't believe that you're suggesting that science and education aren't worth spending money on. Science and education will cure most, if not all, of the problems that you're thinking of. Foreign and domestic youth looting and stealing? Put them in the damn classroom and make them learn something for a change. Rampant unemployment? Tr
Re:Having solved all other problems (Score:5, Interesting)
Student sees comet break-up (Score:1)
and gets to tweet about it before the comet updates its FaceBook page
Meanwhile the comet is looking for a new partner on eHarmony and match.com
Very young people and astronomy (Score:5, Informative)
There seems to be a growing trend of young amateur astronomers. In 2009, Caroline Moore, a 14 year-old at the time became the youngest person to discover a supernova- http://www.astronomy.com/en/News-Observing/News/2009/06/Profile%20Youngest%20person%20to%20discover%20a%20supernova.aspx [astronomy.com]. She was then shortly thereafter surpassed by the 10-year old Kathryn Aurora Gray http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/04/girl-10-becomes-youngest-to-discover-supernova/ [cnn.com] If one is at all old this thing starts to really make one feel unaccomplished by comparison.
One thing you might notice is that all of these people are female. I tentatively don't think this is a coincidence but at the same time don't think this is a strong example of the growth of females in science (although it certainly should help inspire other young girls). There's been for a very long history of women astronomers. While the specific example prior to about 1850 there are isolated examples like Caroline Herschel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Herschel [wikipedia.org] but in the second half of the 19th century a large number of women went into astronomy related work. Examples include Antonia Maury who did some of the first careful analysis and cataloging of stellar spectra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonia_Maury [wikipedia.org] and Annie Jump Cannon who followed on Maury's and others work making systematic the correlations between spectra, temperature and brightness, a crucial issue for trying to estimate the distance of any start that is more than a few hundred light years away http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Jump_Cannon [wikipedia.org]. And then you have Henrietta Swan Leavitt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Swan_Leavitt [wikipedia.org] who discovered Cepheid variable stars which allow one to extend distance estimates even farther, to outside our own galaxy. One thing that is important to notice is that a lot of these early female astronomers were doing work careful cataloging and classification work that was actually considered women's work and considered to be not that important by many. Thus, they got a lot less credit in their lifetimes than male astronomers. So at least that aspect has changed a lot.
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* One thing you might notice is that all of these people are female. I tentatively don't think this is a coincidence
Correct. It's not a coincidence. It's just that the press doesn't give a shit if males do it. Example: you'd think that all murder victims in the UK are female.
In reality, it's just that the press couldn't care less if you are male and get murdered - unless there happens to be some other cause they can attach to it (possible race motivations for example) and stoke up coverage.
Re:Very young people and astronomy (Score:4, Insightful)
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A doing science syndrome to get a mini "Sputnik" bump in funding or just a slow news day?
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Also, a question for you: is it sexist to say that women aren't as strong as men or that women can't run as fast as men?
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He's claiming persecution from a position of privilege, at least that's how I read it. This has nothing to do with women being in average not as strong as men.
He's claiming women are "persecuted". He isn't allowed to hold a viewpoint because of his "position of privilege" as a man?
And that extra question was unrelated.
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"is it sexist to say that women aren't as strong as men or that women can't run as fast as men?"
Yes, because for all practical purposes it is worse than false: it is irrelevant.
I bet you can neither beat the 10.49 mark on Florence Griffith's 100 m nor lift the 158 Kg of Liu Chunhong's. So what's the exact meaning of "women aren't as strong as men" and how does it matter for practical purposes? The fact is that people's strengh doesn't mean nuts, a *given* person strenght may matter and, in this case, you c
Re:Very young people and astronomy (Score:4, Interesting)
Young eyes are better at recognizing novel patterns than highly trained older eyes. As a person gains experience in a highly visual field like astronomy, they are more likely to regard something they had never seen before as a variant of what they already knew. A youngster to the field is more likely to bring the same image to someone else's attention: "What do you think this is? Could it be a Carolian snark?"
Women in the US and I believe in Europe (and possibly across the entire human species) invest less ego in discovery activities than men do. Women are less likely to be anxious about making mistakes, and are therefore more likely to show unusual findings to more experienced persons.
While many conclusions can be drawn from these two assertions, the obvious one is that observatories should actively recruit young, naive, nubile women to do all the night time work of taking the first look at all visual data. This would probably be the single most effective way in which astronomy could attract new males to its studies.
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While many conclusions can be drawn from these two assertions, the obvious one is that observatories should actively recruit young, naive, nubile women to do all the night time work of taking the first look at all visual data.
Leela?
Fits your description (except the naive) and is genetically uniquely qualified for astronomy.
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It's one of the few branches of science where a young amateur can actually do something interesting. They took all the good stuff out of chemistry sets due to liability issues. People doing electronics are conflated with hackers. Basement biochem is out of the reach of young people for cost reasons.
But one thing kids do have lots of is time. Sitting behind a computer poring over image after image is precisely the kind of task kids excel at these days.
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Bart's comet? (Score:3)
She could tell the comet had broken up... (Score:5, Funny)
... it had set its Facebook status to 'single'.
Luck (Score:2, Offtopic)
I think it's more incredible luck than an incredible achievement.
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I totally agree. Happenstance and good fortune require no experience, expertise or anything else. She happened to be looking at the right spot at the right time. She did not know, expect, anticipate or predict the event at that location. She simple happened to observe the passing of an event.
Re:Luck (Score:5, Insightful)
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How does that work for a lottery? There are tons and tons of people who prepare for the opportunity and yet all but one loses. Most prepare a heck a lot more than the winner but rarely win. What she did is almost similar... odds were probably the same.
In her case, I would lean toward luck. Its when 'shit just happens' in your favor but you increase your chances via preparation. Nice work preparing, but lets not forget the majority of it was given to her by the heavens.
Both puns intended.
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Yes but for the one who loses preparation still has met opportunity. Or something.
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I don't usually complain about moderation but the person who modded me 'offtopic' doesn't have all his braincells wired correctly.
Somewhere, Maria Mitchell is smiling (Score:4, Interesting)
Wikipedia's article on Maria Mitchell [wikipedia.org], who discovered "Miss Mitchell's Comet" in 1847, observing from the rooftop of her home in Nantucket.
If this is anything like the career of many I know (Score:1)
...then the person who finds something that is quite rare, something that everyone wishes they could have found, then the one who found it will be ignored and deemed "just lucky and useless" henceforth.
If they have a "degree", on the other hand, they will be mentioned in all scientific journals and praised for their wonderful work.
I'm not kidding. I see it happen to scientific minds in all categories almost every day. :)
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The truly sad part about this is that she'll have to do some really great things in her life to ever measure up with this accomplishment. Sad to think that it's all down hill from here for her for the rest of her life.
Don't be such a pessimist! :-)
It's a great discovery for her to have made at such a young age, but that certainly doesn't have to mean "it's all down hill from here". The article says she's interested in pursuing a career in biochemistry; there's still masses of discovery to be made within the biochem field, so - maybe it's the optimist in me - but I'm sure she'll get on just fine in the rest of her academic life.
Darn (Score:1)
She is 18 and already making scientific discoveries...
I am 25 and i'm still spending my weekends browsing slashdot!
extremely rare? (Score:1)
It is extremely rare to spot a fragmenting comet
Or is it astronomically rare?
Something strange in the article. (Score:3)
FTA: Fragmentation in comets is rarely observed, but can occur when they are closest to the sun and develop spectacular tales of gas, dust and ice particles. The tale originates from the icy core (or nucleus), so when it heats up, vapor from sublimating ices are outgassed into space, dislodging dust and other material.
Shouldn't that be "tails" and "tail", or some different definition of the word "tale" I wasn't previously aware of?