Scientists Develop Brain-Microchip Bridge 118
dreampod writes "Canadian scientists have developed a microchip capable of monitoring the electrical and chemical communication channels between individual neurons. This is the first time scientists have been able to monitor the interaction between brain cells on such a precise and subtle level. In addition to providing the ability to see more easily the impact of drugs on various mental disorders during testing, this provides one of the first fundamental steps towards real mind-machine interface."
singularity (Score:2, Funny)
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Resistance is Futile.
Prepare to be assimilated.
Re:singularity (Score:5, Funny)
Re:singularity (Score:5, Funny)
You already had an appointment.
Yesterday.
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Prepare to be assimilated.
Ohm mani padme hum?
Star Trek or Star Wars? (Score:1)
Resistance is Futile. Prepare to be assimilated.
Borg motto.
padme
Queen Amidala's civilian name.
I got the "ohm" part (resistance), but is there a reason you mixed Star Trek and Star Wars allusions?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om_mani_padme_hum [wikipedia.org]
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Too late. I already use Windows.
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That gives the Blue Screen of Death a whole new meaning.
But not in a real brain? (Score:4, Informative)
TFA is vague but it looks like the cells in question are being kept alive outside the organism. I suppose this could be adapted into an implantable device, but cochlear implants almost do that anyway.
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Re:But not in a real brain? (Score:4, Informative)
Cochlear implants go the opposite direction. Cochlear implants are like speakers, this is like a microphone.
Thats true but the important thing here is the interface, which works both ways. This device may have more resolution though, and it seems precise enough to talk to individual neurons, rather than nerve cells.
Re:But not in a real brain? (Score:5, Informative)
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Well I'm not sure what you mean by nerve cells vs. neurons (they are the same thing, by my understanding), but for every neuron there might be 1000 synapses, so that might be what you mean. I couldn't tell from the story, though.
The difference, I think, is that nerve cells are more isolated than neurons in the brain. So for a nerve you can use a large detector to isolate a signal but to get meaningful data from nerve cells (neurons) in a mass of neurons you need high resolution.
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Sorry, they're the same thing. Neuron == nerve == nerve cell. A neuron consists of a cell body (the prokaryon), one axon (outgoing signal), and one or more dendrites (incoming). They connect to each other from axon to dendrite, at links called synapses. The signal is propagated by very high-resolution, high-frequency balancing and shifting ion gradients.
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But I'm not all that sure a single neuron is a reasonable long term target for such a device. After all that neuron could die just when you need it most, (or after a few stiff drinks).
Also, I'm not sure a human can fire a single given neuron in the brain with any precision when (and only when) desired.
I would expect that further research could allow clusters of these sensors to monitor small regions of the brain and detect when that region was fired in a specific way, (as opposed to some random triggering
Re:But not in a real brain? (Score:4, Funny)
(or the flaps, ailerons, engines, and missiles)
Yes, but you have to think in Russian
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Yes, but you have to think in Russian
Only if you're using Firefox [mozilla-europe.org]. As AC hinted [slashdot.org], Chrome can do this translation for you.
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Whether we can ever do it, and whethe
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Sigh.
You should have told me that 10 minutes ago...
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Heh, is this is alternate form of "That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me"?
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You had no trepidation regarding trepanation?
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So, you hook them together and you can hear your own thoughts!
Read the small print (Score:5, Informative)
Before jumping on this, read the small print.
They take out a piece of brain tissue, and implant it into the machinery, not the other way around. I'm not sure about you guys, but that kind of interface doesn't seem too useful to me, although it could be useful for diagnosis.
Re:Read the small print (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously, it's harder to do in a living organism, so you work out certain details in a test tube, so to speak.
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This was done with snails. Not exactly a first step.
Re:Read the small print (Score:5, Funny)
Let's call it "an important first slimy forward drag".
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One small splort for a snail, one giant splertch for snailkind!
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I'ma take that with a grain of salt..
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I think there is a gap in medicine. You have scientists, technicians (doctors) but few engineers. If there were medical engineers they could take a device like this and package it for implantation. One obvious application would be an electronic bridge between two bunches of nerve cells.
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If there were medical engineers they could take a device like this and package it for implantation.
There is such a field as Biomedical Engineering [wikipedia.org].
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Bodily-fluid-proofing (Score:2)
Yep, those guys turn $5 pulse meter into $5k FDA-approved pulse measurement stall.
That's $5 for the meter and $4,995 for bodily-fluid-proofing [slashdot.org] and the sort of testing needed for a warranty. We went over this the last time [slashdot.org] someone recommended using mass-market consumer electronics as a medical device.
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This is child's play, Jim.
Re:Read the small print (Score:5, Interesting)
Before jumping on this, read the small print.
They take out a piece of brain tissue, and implant it into the machinery, not the other way around. I'm not sure about you guys, but that kind of interface doesn't seem too useful to me, although it could be useful for diagnosis.
I rather suspect if it were the other way around, (implants for arbitrary interfaces) there would be a bit of a hue and cry. Especially when human subjects are discussed.
Its the safe way to do the research without attracting the attention of political or religious groups.
Its pretty patently clear that implantation is the ultimate goal, and this opens a whole can of worms best left unopened while the research is young.
Re:Read the small print (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, we'll keep it under the radar and let it gather lots of momentum, entrench itself in terms of research thus far invested, and then we'll spring open that can of worms. Surely that will avert the controversy concerning brain implants!
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yes, a can of worms would be open if you went against god! If god intended you to have chips in your brain, you would be born with them! just like speaking and writing!
mbrlkjhjakd!
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I rather suspect if it were the other way around, (implants for arbitrary interfaces) there would be a bit of a hue and cry. Especially when human subjects are discussed.
Besides, even if the technology cannot be made small enough for an inconspicuous implant, I reckon there's plenty of folks willing to wear a funky looking helmet/contraption on their heads if that means being able to send electrical impulses to their paralyzed lower body.
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Benji mouse :"It has to be prepared"
Mouse 2: "Diced, We will replace it with an artificial brain, no-one will notice.
Arthur Dent :"I will"
Benji mouse: No you wont you will be programmed not to!"
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Ever read Anne McCaffrey brain/brawn books?
Being able to remove a full brain, keep it on life support (the next step) and interface it to a computer would be rather useful I would have thought :)
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You know, I've often wondered why we don't join some of our existing technologies together and get on with things. I know it may not be as simple as it sounds, but we have this tech already:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/54170/title/Let_there_be_light [sciencenews.org]
(Allows for manipulation of neurons with light)
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl051811%2B [acs.org]
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/tech/41146 [nanotechweb.org]
(Nanoscale OLED displays)
http://www.egmrs.org/EJS/PDF/vo281/1.pdf [egmrs.org]
http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=6802 [azonano.com]
(N
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Becausw we're not American and it would make us sick?
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If the light could both be from the mechanical AND the biological side, you'd have quite a bit of confusion. You want different kinds of signals for input and output.
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They take out a piece of brain tissue, and implant it into the machinery
Didn't they use semi-organic components in the computer (gelpacks I think) in Star Trek? I seem to recall an episode when the organic components of the computer caught a virus (real one, not computer) and that borked the systems of the ship.
So yeah, my point is that using organic components in a computer seemed to achieve a rather important purpose in Star Trek so it stands to reason that what we are learning here could be useful.
Vampire Plug (Score:1, Interesting)
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The Man would like you to have that too. I mean, if you have nothing to hide, why would you possibly be against it?
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The only thing a Vampire plug would enable you to do is sparkle.
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Side effects include: Abnormally high levels of chagrin, creepy girlfriend-stalking tendencies, halted semen production.
The MAFIAA (Score:2)
What I really want is a vampire plug that sits on my optic nerve(s) and captures everything I see and records it to a hard drive.
Don't watch any vampire movies in this state, or one or more MPAA members will try to slay you.
Chemical dialogue (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought this sort of thing was quite difficult, without vapourizing the tissue and dropping it into a mass spectrometer. I know CSI can drop a grain of goop into a breadmaker and have it pinpoint every compound, dna profile and isotope distribution in a few seconds, but I kinda guessed that was a TV-ish thing.
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - GB Shaw
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The device in question does not measure chemical signals directly. It measures the flow of ions "in" and "out" (through the membrane) of individual neurons. When one neuron communicates with a second neuron, typically the source neuron releases a chemical (neurotransmitter) onto the target neuron, where receptors sense the chemical and in response open ion channels (pores in the membrane). Ions (such as sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium) then pass through these channels, changing the potential difference
The soul (Score:1, Insightful)
I wonder if 100% of the brain is monitored and analyzed if somewhere in there we will finally find a soul.
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I wonder if 100% of the brain is monitored and analyzed if somewhere in there we will finally find a soul.
I take the opposing view. Once we model all of a working mind I think we will be surprised to find out little is going on there in reality.
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I take the view that the universe is 4-dimensional, but only on a microscopic (or smaller) scale; an atom or molecule or even something smaller (quantum sized) might have a depth or "space" attached to it (which can be altered by manipulations/chemistry), but unless you can combine and expand these spaces with extremely small, precise mechanisms (cells), there is no way to make it workably large. Once you have a large cellular network, though, it may be possible.
So more or less, I theorize that we have no
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Here's Tom with the weather.
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Seems more like a gaia dreaming of her father. How else do you explain the complete and utter superiority of women coupled with the ubiquitous nonsensical dominance of the tragic male figure?
That being said, you sound like a kook, homeboy!!! Keep on. ;)
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No, and when we don't all the religionists will just say that it's not a physical object or process, so they never expected to find it anyway.
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We already believe that because the bible said it thousands of years ago. Please, continue to expose your complete lack of knowledge regarding Christianity (which in not "religion" to true Christians).
It's not the brain that causes a husband to make sacrifices for his wife and children; when I wrap my arms around my beautiful wife and tell her that I missed her, it wasn't my brain that caused that; when someone finds a wallet full of cash and returns it to its owner with the same amount of cash in it, it's
xkcd (Score:1, Funny)
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So, resistance is futile, conductance useful.
But with too much reluctance comes great impedance.
sounds cool where are the Bionic arms and legs? (Score:2)
sounds cool where are the Bionic arms and legs?
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They're working on it. [bbc.co.uk]. here's [youtube.com] a video.
"In addition to new materials, the use of electronics has become very common in artificial limbs. Myoelectric limbs, which control the limbs by converting muscle movements to electrical signals, have become much more common than cable operated limbs. Myoelectric limbs allow the amputees to more directly control the artificial limb." [wikipedia.org]
Mind reading (Score:2)
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My guess is that a lot of information goes from one side of the brain to the other via the corpus callosum, and if you could monitor just that traffic (which is still massive), you could gather a lot. Making sense of it is a different matter. I don't think its unreasonable to think that they might be able to do it in 100 years though.
Not a Bridge (Score:2)
Sci Fi comes to life... (Score:1)
Ah we'll see something like Interface (ISBN: 0553372300) is just a few short year. Kinda like fusion as a practical source of electricity...
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Or Terminal Man?
Imortality (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe this will be an easier way to immortality than any genetic treatment.
If you think about, from the moment on that you can store you memories and later thoughts in a chip, just like you do in your brain, how can you distinguish between what goes on in your biological brain and digital one? Where is the barrier?
I know we are still far from that time. Perhaps decades at the best, but just think about the philosophic implications of that and how the concept of life, intelligent life and humanity will need to be re-defined.
It's a "brave new world".
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A person is a sum of their memories from birth to present. Every moment is training us to be who we are, intentionally or otherwise. Through every seemingly unrelated event, we become the person who we are.
If the memories and the relationships we form between those memories and the way things work, are recorded precisely and could be transferred to another body, we would achieve immortality. More precisely, each generation these memories are transferred to would be an extens
Learning language and escaping from womb (Score:2)
Imagine being locked in a tank, where you are fed intravenously. You cannot see anything but blackness. You cannot hear anything except the steady rhythm of a machine.
One plot point in Mr. Holland's Opus is that the human womb transmits sound. It's low-pass filtered, but it's enough to make human babies react differently [birthpsychology.com] to the rhythms and tone contours of the mother's language than to those of a foreign language.
Any attempts to escape are countered by the fact that the tank you are in is padded where you cannot breach it
This study [drmomma.org] claims that the child's lungs send the birth signal when the child is ready to escape.
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What you guys are missing is that everyone's synapses connect differently, and no two paople have the same number of neurons; even identical twins'. You would first have to have an exact duplicate of your brain, both structurally and chemically, before you could transfer your memories and have the new being be you.
Obligatory (Score:1)
I, for one, welcome our microchipped brainiac overlords.
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In Soviet Russia, this one post reads you !
Have a nice day.
"socialized medicine" (Score:1, Offtopic)
Opponents of "socialized medicine" argue that capitalism is necessary for cutting-edge medical research, here is an example of the opposite.
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Though it may come as a surprise if you had listened to the republicans lately but Canada is actually a capitalist society and while we 'socialize' the cost of it, the fact of the matter is it is good solid capitalist sense to do so because we pay vastly less for better outcomes and manage to cover everyone simultaneously.
However the research for this project is out of the University of Calgary and is not funded by our health care system but through the standard mix of research grants, university funds, and
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"Hey there Dave, nice weather we're having. *twitch* WE SHOULD GO BUY SOME PEPSI! *twitch* Whoa, what just happened?"
Skull Jack In The Future? (Score:2)
I forget if it was a Shadowrun book, or a William Gibson novel, but one of the protagonists had been captured, and the bad guys had cheerfully plugged THEIR equipment into the hero's skull jack. Think "A Clockwork Orange", only without the need for eyedrops.
You really don't want an implant that can allow someone to root your brain.
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Implanted into a certain ex-governor from Alaska (Score:3, Funny)
Another Bridge to Nowhere...
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*Golf clap*
Bravo sir.
Wonder if I could get a grant... (Score:2)
Oh Please, Please!... (Score:2)
Get 535 of these ready for implant and equipped with a basic math & econ101 enhancement module and send them on your fastest aircraft along with a team of implant technicians to Washington DC.
Stat!!
I for one (Score:2, Funny)
Do Beowulf Clusters of Humans make God plausible? (Score:1)
There are times where I feel this may be our only chance at survival as a race. If we don't unify to the point where each one of us sees that harming
Time to Start the OS Interface Project? (Score:1)
I can't wait that long (Score:1)
I sure wish that we could get more insight as to what it monitors and how we can use that to our advantage...brain chemistry being a big part in so many brain illnesses, i think sometimes it may well be the door to a healthier tomorrow...as well, making a chip interface to hook up to your computer is finally here...count me in...
Snow Crash (Score:1)