Caffeine Addicts Get No Additional Perk, Only a Return To Baseline 506
Dthief writes "Bristol University researchers found that coffee drinkers develop a tolerance to both the anxiety-producing and the stimulating effects of caffeine, meaning that it only brings them back to baseline levels of alertness, not above them. 'Although frequent consumers feel alerted by caffeine, especially by their morning tea, coffee, or other caffeine-containing drink, evidence suggests that this is actually merely the reversal of the fatiguing effects of acute caffeine withdrawal,' wrote the scientists, led by Peter Rogers of Bristol's department of experimental psychology."
A return to baseline... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A return to baseline... (Score:4, Informative)
I believe it's called 'homeostasis.'
Re:A return to baseline... (Score:5, Funny)
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
Re:A return to baseline... (Score:5, Funny)
I believe it's called 'homeostasis.'
Sometimes defined as "balancing homos within the system."
Re:A return to baseline... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, we start our life by getting out of one, and spend the rest trying to get back in there. Into any womb.
Re:A return to baseline... (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't this slashdot? I can say with some certainty that women do not, in fact, exist.
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Re:A return to baseline... (Score:5, Informative)
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well GREAT (Score:5, Funny)
Re:well GREAT (Score:5, Funny)
So either I have to use Red Bull's oddball sugar-enriched BS for a charge (which I'll probably build up a tolerance to), or seek out alternatives like - METH (it's what's for breakfast! Yummy mmmmmeth!).
At least, with the METH, you will have
a. better memory performance
b. less of a need to visit a dentist
Seems like a win/win!
Re:well GREAT (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:well GREAT (Score:4, Funny)
Hey! You know the rules: The first rule of Secret Science Club is you do not talk about Secret Science Club...
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b. less of a need to visit a dentist
You ain't jokin'. I used to drink 2-3L of mt dew a day... destroyed my teeth. Now I'm getting fillings every visit, and I don't expect that to improve any time soon. WOrst part is that when I switched to diet soda, I thought it would at least help with the tooth problem. Nope -- it's not the sugar, it's the slightly acidic content that essentially etches your teeth where it pools up along the gumline. (On the other hand, contrary to what "studies show", I *did* lose about 10 lbs with diet soda. That's
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Re:well GREAT (Score:5, Funny)
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You're probably better off getting them capped with ceramics (crowns) now and save what's left of the tooth structure for when you need to recap them in 10-20 years' time. It costs about 1.5x-double but it definitely pays off in the long run. Fillings in your situation are simply a very poor bandaid to a much larger enamel problem.
Re:well GREAT (Score:5, Interesting)
So either I have to use Red Bull's oddball sugar-enriched BS for a charge (which I'll probably build up a tolerance to), or seek out alternatives like - METH (it's what's for breakfast! Yummy mmmmmeth!).
Otherwise known as 'Adderall,' yes, it is what's for breakfast. [theonion.com]
Re:well GREAT (Score:5, Informative)
Adderall is speed (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine), not meth. Meth is sold medically under the brand name Desoxyn but prescription is rare.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Adderall is speed (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine), not meth. Meth is sold medically under the brand name Desoxyn but prescription is rare.
The More You Know!
Re:well GREAT (Score:4, Informative)
"Meth" is generally reserved for the easily smoked pure crystals of methamphetamine.
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As I always say (Score:5, Funny)
I never touch coffee - it's a vile habit, especially when abused. Now that that's out of the way, barkeep, another pilsner please.
Re:As I always say (Score:5, Funny)
Very good, sir. But this is a dry cleaning shop.
Re:As I always say (Score:5, Interesting)
Drinking coffee to wake up every morning will probably lead to dependence. Drinking coffee because it tastes good, at somewhat irregular times, probably won't. Similarly, drinking beer just because it's delicious(*) and the light buzz is pleasant probably won't lead to dependence, but drinking to make yourself happier or to "escape" in any way probably will. It's much easier to become dependent on something that you, you know, depend on.
(*) I'm wholly on board with you that most super pale, weak, flavorless "beer" is vile; that's why I drink better beer. [beeradvocate.com]
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I hate to break this to you, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
A. Your uncle had an incredibly, unbelievably unusual metabolism toward alcohol OR
B. He had been consistently lying about the amount of his alcohol consumption. This is extremely common behavior in alcoholics. The rest of his family supporting his story and generally being in denial is also very common.
Much like violence, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Much like violence, (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, but who has $300 to spend on coffee? Not Zoidberg!
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Once again the sandwich heavy portfolio works out for the hungry investor.
The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Interesting)
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as a caffeine addict in the uk, I can definitely say that we suffer from caffeine withdrawal symptoms here. At least, I do.
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Funny)
As a caffeine addict in the US, I can say that I don't suffer from caffeine withdrawls. I'd have to stop drinking it first, and that's never going to happen.
Same with sugar rush in kids (Score:5, Interesting)
US TV shows can't resist putting in the effects of sugar on kids. And nobody ever noticed that anywhere else in the world. Maybe because IT IS NOT TRUE. Yes you can energy from sugar but the human body has plenty of sugar all the time on a normal diet. It isn't going to hyper because you add more fuel to it, you just get fatter because the body can now store fat for later instead of burning it as it should.
Clinical trials have shown that kids have no sugar rush UNLESS the parent who thinks kids get a sugar rush are present and then the kids do indeed become hyper active. So over-sensitive parents cause hyper-active children. Not sugar. (That parents infleuence the actions of they child is well known, simple experiment: put a baby who can crawl on a surface and let it crawl over a gap covered by a glass plate. The baby will have no reaction of its own to the height below it. If the mother shows delight then the baby will show it, and cross happily. If the mother shows horror, the baby will react in fear trying to determine what danger it is in. This is how we learn, how all animals with parents learn. But we can learn wrong if the input is wrong. Over-protective parents cause over-sensitive children. Yes, sometimes kids just need to walk it off and funnily enough, they do. Watch a child playing on its own. It falls, nobody panics, it continues.)
Same with coffee. Some writer probably thought it was funny and now everyone believes sitcom rules apply to the real world. Yes, cafine is different from sugar in that it is a drug and does have an effect but you need to be the kind who drinks energy drinks as if they were water, with no water. Not just a cup of coffee. Even half a dozen.
It think part of it is that people act the way they think they are supposed to act. And yes, that would be very intresting to study more because it might have a serious effect on health care. For instance the use of medication when it ain't needed. If you think you need a pill for everything, you will need a pill for everything and indeed get a pill for everything. The US is the most medicated nation on the planet and yet they aren't any healthier. What is all the non-needed drugs doing? Not just to health but to the health care costs? If media is causing people to think they have to behave in a bad way, perhaps it can be reversed as well. Less pill swallowing for every ailment in popular media content could perhaps translate to lower medicine costs?
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Actually, I live outside the US - I heard about the whole topic of caffeine "addiction" and "withdrawal" first when I spent a year in California. I am not trying to do some US bashing here - I seriously never heard anyone talking about the notion of "caffeine withdrawal" before getting there, and nowadays, I only hear about it on American forums. It is simply weird, and it interests me why this is so.
As someone who is going through caffeine withdrawal right now (notice that I don't use quotation marks because it's real), I have a really simple answer.
My splitting headache and lethargy are due to the the fact that I consume at least two pots of coffee a day until yesterday. If you've never heard of anyone getting caffeine withdrawal outside the US, then you've never met anyone who has consumed enough coffee on a regular basis to become addicted.
I realize that you are predisposed to believe that America
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:4, Funny)
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I'll concur, caffeine withdrawal does exist. My poison isn't coffee, it's soda. But, at several liters a day, my consumption matched or beat yours.
I don't think the reporting of it is because it doesn't exist elsewhere. It's more likely that they take advantage of their copious sick days, and/or simply never quit.
I've quit drinking it a few times. Every time, after about 12 to 16 hours of not consuming any, I end up with a migraine bad enough to wish my head
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Mmmm. Cold-turkey addiction-stopping: Of course you were an ass.
When someone stops doing something they're familiar with (girlfriend of some years, heroin, tobacco, coffee, soda, cocaine, masturbation, wife, Intarwebs, talk radio, Slashdot - pick one), they're going to experience withdrawl.
So, don't do that. Scale back. Substitute something else some of the time. And enjoy your soda when you get some.
Then, tomorrow, enjoy less of it.
And the day after that, a little less.
I've beat my share of addictions
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As someone who is going through caffeine withdrawal right now (notice that I don't use quotation marks because it's real), I have a really simple answer.
My splitting headache and lethargy are due to the the fact that I consume at least two pots of coffee a day until yesterday.
I do this to myself periodically. I'm usually a straight espresso drinker, but once every year I take a month off of caffeine. The first three days are really painful, but by the end of the first week, I'm fine. For the rest of the month I dream about coffee, and occasionally I'll indulge in a decaf mocha (or some other fat and sugar loaded decaf drink). Now, if you're a caffeine addict, and you've never done this, I highly recommend it. Not because it's good for you or any crap like that... do it beca
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I'm not sure what being American has to do with anything.
Americans work some of the longest hours around, and probably caffeine fueled hacking is probably more of an American tradition. Red Bull has been banned on and off, on health grounds, in various European countries, for example.
However, mods defintitely need to sit down, pour themselves another large glass of wine, and have another piece of cheese, before indulging in lazy cultural stereotyping. Cheers!
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:4, Interesting)
I drink, on average, 10 cups of moderately strong coffee per day (that's relative though; it's American coffee, which is not normally as strong as other coffees). I drink mostly "breakfast blend" which has a milder taste, but more of a caffeine kick. On some days I don't drink any coffee and occasionally get headaches. I assume this is the withdrawal effect.
And yes. I don't sleep well at all. On average I sleep 4 hours a day (go to bed at 1:30AM, wake up at 5:30AM). And sometimes I don't sleep so much as wait either... Sort of a vicious cycle too... I drink coffee in the morning because I don't feel quite human until I had that first cup. It's more of a routine than an actual need for caffeine though. It's just something I do that's a rote action until my brain starts functioning normally. Others may do a morning run but I see that as akin to eating an egg-white omelet.
I'm allergic to alcohol, BTW. It makes me very red and very nauseous.
And to prove your point.. It's 8:44PM here now. I've been at the office since 9AM... So almost a 12 hour day...
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You seem to be of the misunderstanding that there are only two possible way to have a life, the "American" way as you described it or "living in a bankrupt sun belt socialism". If this is your true belief, I'm truly sorry for your lack of world knowledge.
Take me for example, I'm as normal as you can get. I live in Sweden, have a good job within IT. I have 7 weeks of paid vacation and I work 9:30 to 17:00 mon-fri. Overtime is very rare (3 evenings in 2 years), and if it is required, I'm paid for it. I likely
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Funny)
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When I finished finals this semester, I cut caffeine entirely from my diet to try and get back to a normal consumption level. During finals, I was consuming ~500 mg of caffeine in the form of tea, energy drinks, and caffeinated gum, mints, and pills. I tend to follow my caffeine consumption very closely.
After finals, I also developed a sore throat, so I was drinking over a gallon of liquid a day - LOTS more than normal. About 12 hours after my finals period ended, I got splitting headaches from the caffeine
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:4, Interesting)
When most caffeine "addicts" stop drinking their favorite caffeinated beverage they often fail to replace it with water and or other non caffeinated beverages. This causes dehydration which is mistaken for withdrawal symptoms.
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Hypertension, Heart Problems.
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Informative)
No [highwire.org]
and
No [nih.gov]
Hard to prove a negative, but for a drug, caffeine has been remarkably safe.
(Appropriate Heinlein quote "Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal".
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Interesting)
It's worth pointing out that coffee beans do contain a substance, cafestol [wikipedia.org], that affects cholesterol regulation. Cafestol is removed by paper filtration, so us American drip coffee drinkers can rest easy. But if you're drinking french press or turkish coffee on a regular basis, it could have a significant effect on your cholesterol levels.
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Develop an oatmeal habit to counter my caffeine habit? Well, okay, but first I'll have to read up on what oatmeal withdrawal is like.
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We're awash in chemicals all day. Why do we have to vilify certain ones? People have withdrawal symptoms when they break up with their girlfriends, too, but we don't go around trying to treat people for love addiction. I can assure you that the feelings are just a bunch of chemicals.
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Insightful)
We're awash in chemicals all day. Why do we have to vilify certain ones?
Because different chemicals have different effects, and some of those effects are harmful but may be non-obvious unless they are studied.
I mean, duh?
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Funny)
Who's there to greet you in the morning? Caffeine.
Who's there to keep you company through the day? Caffeine.
Who will take long road trips with you, without complaining about your driving? Caffeine.
Who will keep you company on a long night of programming without complaining that you aren't paying attention to them? Caffeine.
Who won't complain when you share your time with her sister, Nicotine? Caffeine.
I think you have a point there, sir. Caffeine is our true love.
Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:5, Funny)
As a former caffeine addict, I would *love* to see some serious studies come out describing the long term consequences to long term caffeine use. Of course, we'll never see that because there's more money behind caffeine than alcohol and tobacco, combined.
jjjjust look at-t me...
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Re:The truth about caffeine (Score:4, Insightful)
coffee tax: 1 billion
Work.
alcohol tax: 3,5 billion
Play.
tabacco tax: 14,5 billion
Addiction.
Makes sense (Score:2)
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
And if you stop drinking coffee your body will adapt to waking up on its own with no need for it. I used to drink tons of soda (even more caffeine than coffee) and always had to have a can in the morning to wake up, I stopped drinking it (well aside from about 2 cans worth a week) and suddenly it was significantly easier to get up in the morning, to the point where, going to sleep at the same time, I was waking up an hour earlier and feeling much better.
Caffeine is not a good way to start your day off, no matter what folgers may say. It's a useful drug for maintaining alertness every once in a while but used daily it reduces your overall alertness, which is bad.
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Informative)
[citation needed]
How much soda were you drinking at one time?
From http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/an01211 [mayoclinic.com]
generic brewed coffee has (on the low end) 95 mg of caffeine in 8 oz. (200 mg on the high end)
Mountain dew has 54 mg for 12 oz. (Vault has 71 mg, but Mt. Dew is "well known" as having high caffeine, and besides Vault is the highest in the list shown on that page.)
So if you drank a lot of soda, over the course of the day you'd likely get more caffeine than one cup of coffee a day.. But IMHO, do typical coffee drinkers drink only one cup a day? I don't think so.
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I drink two pints first thing in the morning. 32oz * 3.5mg = 112mg. Then about 12oz/hr after that throughout the work day, and back to pint glasses when I get home.
Stop.
No, seriously, stop drinking that much Dr. Pepper. Ingesting that many calories from one source is a Really Bad Idea. Even if it's actually their diet version, ingesting that much of any one food source is a Really Bad Idea. It leads to all sorts of health issues, not the least of which will be vitamin deficiency. Seriously, this is a VERY BAD IDEA.
Taper down, quit cold turkey, whatever, but cut down on your intake and do it soon. If you're ingesting that much sugar, you are on a short bee-line to
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Caffeine is not a good way to start your day off, no matter what folgers may say.
This is so true.
There are many potheads that are all about "wake and bake". Yeah pot is fun and right away in the morning it feels awesome initially but the burnout is terrible.
There are many drinkers that go out for bloody marys the next day. "Hair of the dog that bit ya'". And then you feel worse an hour after you stop drinking and go back to sleep.
Eat a good breakfast, with protein, grain, carbs, sugar, salt, water or juice, and take a shit.
You'll feel good no matter what.
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Yes, but you're waking up from caffeine withdrawal, not sleepiness. If you quit caffeine right now in a week or so you would wake up naturally. That's the point of the study.
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Informative)
Not having coffee results in the same amount of wakefulness, only without the money spent on coffee.
But without the joy of starting the morning with a rich, complex, and delicious brew. When you consider how much flavor you get out of it, a bag of coffee beans is really inexpensive. You could spend $5 on a bar of gourmet chocolate or a bit of fancy cheese and it will be gone in a few days. Spend the same $5 on a half pound of coffee beans and it will last for 2 weeks.
There's really no downside to being addicted to something that's so cheap and plentiful. It's low in calories, inexpensive, and really fucking delicious. Why quit?
That explains so much... damn! (Score:2)
Sustained effect (Score:3, Interesting)
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Uh, a person not on caffeine is "baseline". That's the point. A caffeine addict goes below baseline because they're suffering from withdrawal, and drinking caffeine only counters those symptoms. This doesn't happen to not-drinkers for obvious reasons.
Re:Sustained effect (Score:4, Interesting)
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No, because the addicted coffee drinker's tolerance means they don't experience the stimulating effect of caffeine. It's that effect that makes you feel not tired, but addicts don't get that effect. They simply lose the effects of withdrawal.
Imagine "baseline" as meaning "whatever level a non-drinker would be at that time". For an addict their caffeine fix will bring them up to that level, but no higher. An addict who was tired and experiencing withdrawal would be below a tired non-drinker, and when the
Re:Sustained effect (Score:5, Funny)
Man, have you ever sucked a dick for caffeine?
I don't think that's where coffee comes from...
Re:Sustained effect (Score:4, Funny)
I have a friend that says you need to hang out in an alley behind a Starbucks.
Sure they do... (Score:4, Informative)
There is another stimulating effect of caffeine that the article does not address.
Caffeine is a diuretic.
Isn't that a book? (Score:4, Funny)
The one we haven't heard about:
"Read the new book, Diuretics, by L. Ron Hubbard! It will change your life..."
Re:Sure they do... (Score:5, Funny)
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Coffee enema [wikipedia.org].
You can have my coffee... (Score:2)
You can have my coffee when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
Re:You can have my coffee... (Score:5, Funny)
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YOUR PROPOSAL IS ACCEPTABLE
*waaaaaagh* *om nom nom*
Man, I sure love my new BobMcD suit!
Alrighty then. (Score:2)
Well, shit (Score:5, Insightful)
This is VERY old news (Score:2)
We've known this for a very long time.
Read "Buzz: The Science and Lore of Alcohol and Caffeine" -- ISBN-10: 0140268456
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There should be a warning. I drink soda. Lots and lots of soda. It's like sipping coffee for 16 hours straight. Well, sipping 16+ cups of coffee over 16 hours.
I was at work late one night. I ran out of soda, and I had no change for the vending machine. The coffee machine was sitting there saying "You can drink me. Come on, you know you need the fix. Just turn me on, and brew yourself a pot."
Apparently I'm no good at brewing coffee. I drank 4 cups of very
That's how addiction works. (Score:3, Insightful)
Heroin addicts don't really get high like they used to, they just get well.
LK
They are missing the point... (Score:2, Troll)
Tolerance Yes... But it is all about keeping the body off balance. There is little doubt that coffee (aka caffeine) makes you more focused and energized. I mean to suggest that over 300 years of active "research" has no validity is kind of nieve in my mind. Sometimes so called researches have a hard time remembering this...
Except that (Score:2)
When I come into work in the morning, I am my arshole-y, foggy, caffeine-withdrawal self. Totally useless. But then I have my cup over coffee as I work over something, and before you know it, my mind is racing along. I remember what it was like in those B.C. days ("before caffeine"). I was a thinking being back then, too, but I had no control ov
Re:Except that (Score:4, Funny)
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It could be that... (Score:5, Interesting)
This study asked people to 'rate their levels of alertness' after being given either caffeine or a placebo. The people who normally consumed caffeine rated their alertness levels the same after receiving caffeine as the non-caffeine users rated their alertness levels after receiving a placebo.
Now this could mean a couple of things. One meaning could be what the study authors said; that caffeine addicts need their caffeine to be at the same level of alertness that non-caffeine users need. OR it could mean that the non-caffeine users aren't used to the higher levels of alertness that caffeine gives you, and therefore don't use the same scale to rate their alertness that caffeine users do. A caffeine user may think that the 'normal' (non-caffeinated) level of alertness is actually low (because they are used to being more alert from caffeine) even though they have the same 'actual' level of alertness. In other words, non-caffeinated people might not realize how un-alert they are.
A much better test would be to actually TEST their alertness, instead of relying on a subjective self-assessment. Make them do tasks that require alertness, and measure the differences. You might get different results.
Re:It could be that... (Score:5, Informative)
They did that. From the press release:
Tolerance and Withdrawal (Score:2)
This idea applies to caffeine addicts. But to someone new to caffeine who hasn't developed a high tolerance, caffeine has its perks. So for addicts who want to relive those first moments, the idea is to go through periods of withdrawal intentionally in order to lower their tolerance, and then return to caffeine when needed. I do this all the time. Caution: withdrawal is not fun.
Is this new data? (Score:2)
I was a caffeine freak for years. I would drink coffee from waking to bedtime, frequently I would go to bed and read and then go to sleep with a coffee mug that still some coffee in it. Sometimes on weekends when I was doing other things, I would get headaches from not having enough coffee. I would tell people that coffee did not keep me up, it merely gave me the option of wether or not I wanted to sleep. The other drugs I've been addicted to were a different story. Actually, I guess alcohol and nicoti
*GASP* (Score:4, Insightful)
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I don't believe it. Next you'll be telling me that smoking a cigarette doesn't actually calm me down, it just reverses the effects of nicotine withdraw!
Just go crazy. Sip your coffee through your still smoldering cigarette. Put some vodka in your coffee for the best effect of all 3 worlds.
This entire study is based on flawed semantics. (Score:4, Funny)
"Baseline" is properly defined as the levels of mental alertness and physiological activation when mediated by an appropriately-high level of serum caffeine. People fall below baseline because they're caffeine-deprived.
Don't think of it as a drug. Think of it as a vital metabolic nutrient. "Caffeine addicts" are addicts the same exact way that "protein addicts" and "vitamin C addicts" are.
I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine if I'm serious.
Uh oh (Score:4, Funny)
So where is the sweet spot? (Score:3, Insightful)
A helpful subject for further research would be to determine how much caffeine a person can consume without becoming addicted and thus losing the benefits.
I limit myself to two cups of coffee a week, along with a few sodas, and I don't experience withdrawal symptoms. I could probably have more without running into diminishing returns, but it's hard to know.
Unfortunately the ideal dosage probably varies widely among people due to all sorts of physiological factors. Perhaps what we need is a procedure for testing when we're approaching the point of addiction, without actually reaching it.
Placebo (Score:4, Funny)
For one week, I switched the coffee in our lab coffee club to decaf... nobody noticed. The one "proud" coffee addict even asked one day if I was making it stronger, while putting on an act of being over-stimulated.
There are ~10 people who use that machine. Seriously. Not one of them noticed they were drinking decaf for a week.
*sigh
No shit? News at 11. (Score:3, Insightful)
That’s true for every drug. It’s the definition of the whole thing.
It’s why they raise the dosage all the time. (Often it’s impossible to raise it fast enough to not get down to zero anyway.)
Seriously: News at 11.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It speeds the heart and increases blood pressure, but does not raise mental awareness. Simple, simple, simple.
Hell yeah, much simpler than all that nonsense cranked out by the experimental and cognitive psychologists, physiologists, pharmacologists and the like when they did all that complicated science. Especially since it said the opposite from what you did. After dozens of designs and replications. For decades. What were we thinking? What a fucking waste.
Are there any other fields of inquiry to which you have full and correct knowledge of, making it unnecessary to waste time and money pursuing ever more incorrec